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Apple's share of U.S. PC market cracks the 10% barrier - Page 3

post #81 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

A computer is only needed to activate it. Something the Genius bar is happy to do for you before you leave the store. Or you could do it at a friends house (now if you don't have friends, I can see how that would be an issue - but even the friendless can find an Apple store).

So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #82 of 143
i think one of apple's core strategies is being a "game changer"


this probably also applies to a a definition of what makes a profitable, or top company in the tech world.

when nokia was still focusing on unit shipments, apple quarterly results seem focused more on profit margin percentage per unit, as well as high selling price per unit.

the number of phones nokia and motorola sells still dwarf the iphones apple sell, but apple makes way more money per unit sold.

thus a graph depicting units sold will not show the entire picture of how things are shaping up.



on their part, apple also does not seem insistent on reporting iPad shipments as part of personal computer shipments.

perhaps this flying under the radar benefits apple because, instead of boasting it will be the no.1 in PC shipments in the future, it is amassing and adding billions in its war chest from PC, phones and iPads sold, regardless of which ranking it places in whichever categories its being put in.
post #83 of 143
Would be interesting to see a statistic excluding purchases businesses... just tally of the Home User market, i.e. those that have 'free will' in their purchasing decisions : ) Probably closer to 25% I'd guess if the boat loads of WinTel boxes ordered by biz's are excluded.
post #84 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your post is certainly idiotic. Let's examine your reading comphrehenion (or rather, lack thereof)...

The bottom line is there really isn't much in the way of electronics these days that isn't a "computer" in the broadest sense of the term, but to imply that any product that can technically do what the original 'PC' did 4 decades prior means it should automatically be added to these figures is absurd.

Sol, you were pretty quick to jump on him/her, don't you think? If you ask me, I think, in terms of sales analysis, any machine that is purchased to replace what would have been a "computer" purchase otherwise, could and should be included in that sales category. It's pretty clear that the majority of iPad users are replacing most of their traditional "computing time" with "iPad time". If there wasn't any such thing as an iPad I'm sure that other "computers" would have been bought ..... wouldn't you agree?
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #85 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Roughly one in four purchases of a personal computer for home use are Macs.

Curious about your source on this statistic? That's my guess including only home users able to make autonomous choices.
post #86 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?

Genius bar? Friends?

It's hardly mandatory to own a computer to use an iPad.
post #87 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

OMG! Barrier-gate!

Too funny!
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #88 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?

For the time being, sure. I didn't say it was convenient. Just that it's far from mandatory to own a computer in order to own or use an iPad.

There's been what, one iOS upgrade for the iPad so far? 4.2 will make the second? If there is one more before Apple supports iOS updates over the air I will be shocked....

EDIT: And the vast majority of their users are "worthy" of an Apple store within an hour or so of them. It's called placing where the population is. If you live in a rural area its, well, rural. If you have to drive two hours to get to a WallMart, why should you expect an Apple Store next door?
post #89 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmoshay View Post

Curious about your source on this statistic? That's my guess including only home users able to make autonomous choices.

I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.

Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".

How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...

Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up

That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone
post #90 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe that's because the Apple iPad is a computer peripheral NOT a stand-alone computing device.

Note: One must use an actual computer to even get the iPad up and running... Very Telling

Hey you're back...! ...Mmm back with the same gibberish as well
post #91 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Genius bar? Friends?

It's hardly mandatory to own a computer to use an iPad.

True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.

P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #92 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.

P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!

I can definitely see a reason why they don't give iOS users access to the file system. This is, really, a Good Thing™. For advanced users, just Jailbreak if you really want to poke around there.

Most people don't give a sh*t about syncing or backup. And then when they lose their phone, data, hard disk dies, whatever, they expect everything to have been magically saved "somewhere" when they run into problems.


(Me in blue)


"Hi, I think I accidentally deleted a file somewhere in Entourage,
and now all my mail folders are gone."


Ah, I see. Maybe you can restore it from a backup...

"I have an external hard disk"

Was it connected to your Mac?

"Umm... I think so."

Did you use Time Machine which I mentioned a few months back?

"Uh... What's that again?"

Maybe it's already connected and doing backups...

"Does it matter if it's not a Mac brand external hard disk?"

ARGHGHSOHDLKGDKHGLKH WTF ARHGHHSKHDLAKSHHGFHGHH

*shoots self in head*




Yeah... y'all know what I'm talking about. And I conduct some customer training, I'm not even in tech support, luckily!
post #93 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.

Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".

How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...

Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up

That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone

+1 Thank you.

Yesterday I was at one of our retail outlets talking to the store manager. I said, "Hmm, the wireless is quite bad here". Manager says "But the IT guy from headquarters told me they installed a new router, and everything is better". Me: "Dude, that's not a new router, unless they're shipping them nowadays with dirt, scuff and burn marks".

Another interesting (and understandable) case: "Head of desktop support" or something like that of a fairly large Oil and Gas company calls up, asking if we do training for IT support of Macs. I ask, well, what seems to be the need? He tells me, "Well, all the VIPs have Macs and iPads, and you know, when we have to support it, if things don't go well, it doesn't look too good...".

As you can see, the company executives are all having a blast getting themselves (or in some cases being "gifted" (pretty much "bribed")) with Macs, iPhones, iPads and so on, while letting the rank-and-file toil under crappy Windows boxes and cheap laptops...
post #94 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

You can request that Apple activate it in the Apple Store for you. Once activated, it doesn't need a computer.

Well, yes, but it certainly benefits from having a computer associated with it. A simple example would apply to someone with a CD collection. You could buy the tracks from iTMS but it is nice to be able to rip CD's and DVD's that you already own. Air Video Server is one of the best apps for providing media to the iPad and it requires a server on a Mac or PC. You want to read PDF's in iBooks? A Mac running iTunes can be more than convenient. Find a web site that won't work in Safari on the iPad or Mac? Try Firefox on the Mac for possible relief.

All that and more plus two very significant factors. Backups and upgrading to new system software. If you get an iPad now and don't have a computer, you will face some frustrations. Of course there are things like software development which just isn't going to happen on the iPad any time soon. I am a fan of the iPad and in reality all the iOS devices are computers but they are focused quite specifically and need to have a Mac or PC available.
post #95 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

But that is not what the word barrier mens. I\\'ve never been to Spain, but it is no barrier.

1
a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive>
b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2
plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3
: something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade barriers>

Examples of BARRIER

Concrete barriers surround the race track to protect spectators.
The tree\\'s roots serve as a barrier against soil erosion.
The mountain range forms a natural barrier between the two countries.
Both leaders are in favor of removing trade barriers.
Cultural barriers have made it hard for women to enter many professions.
He argues that regulations should not be viewed as barriers to progress.

Yawn. the word in colloquial sense is often used to mean a milestone.
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post #96 of 143
it's nonsense to not include the iPad in the totals. Saying the iPad isn't a computer because you need another computer to do certain functions is kind of like saying the MacBook Air isn't a computer because as shipped you need a computer to install a new release of the OS off of a CD.

And how do you install new releases of the OS on the many netbooks that ship without a CD drive? Are those computers?

That's really the distinction some are trying to make in this thread, that you can't install a new release of the OS without access to a computer somewhere. You certainly don't need another computer to use an iPad.

iOS 4.2 brings multitasking and printing in a few weeks. If there were any real objections to calling the iPad a computer, those should be eliminated with that update.

If Acer's market share includes the sale of netbooks, Apple's market share numbers should include the sale of iPads.
post #97 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?

If you don't have a computer, you don't have a printer. Problem solved :LOL:
post #98 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?

how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive? Those are still counted in sales of computers and are typically used by people who have another computer in their house or business.

How do you get a new OS release onto a MacBook Air? Those are still counted in sales of computers.
post #99 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive?

You don't. Pretty simple.

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post #100 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Sol, you were pretty quick to jump on him/her, don't you think? If you ask me, I think, in terms of sales analysis, any machine that is purchased to replace what would have been a "computer" purchase otherwise, could and should be included in that sales category. It's pretty clear that the majority of iPad users are replacing most of their traditional "computing time" with "iPad time". If there wasn't any such thing as an iPad I'm sure that other "computers" would have been bought ..... wouldn't you agree?

1) Im responding in kind to a poster that clearly didnt read or comprehend what was written.

2) I do agree with you and made those points myself which is why I was attacked. My point is simple, the iPad is not included in their results and its clear where the draw the line, and we can infer many reasons as to why they draw the line.

3) Its silly for poster to use original or literal definitions of terms in a fast moving industry, or even worse to become hypocritical about their definition by drawing their own lines of demarkation that suit their specific viewpoint even though in contradicts what they just stated.

4) In nearly every (if not every) category there will be items that one can clearly fit into more than one category depending on your usage, PoV, etc., but that doesnt mean that the definition used by these analysts should alter simply because some internet forum poster wants them to change it. It also doesnt change what that device does and if a user is really upset because the iPad can compute and is personal but not added to the PC tallies because it doesnt use a standard desktop OS. This isnt even a case of not seeing the forest for the trees, its not seeing the tree for the bark.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #101 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive? Those are still counted in sales of computers and are typically used by people who have another computer in their house or business.

How do you get a new OS release onto a MacBook Air? Those are still counted in sales of computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You don't. Pretty simple.

LOL not so fast, Tallest... There are always external drives for netbooks. But most will just use it as it is with whatever OS is preloaded when they get it online or at the shop, and then pray that nothing will go wrong with the OS installation.

What's pretty simple is that iPad will be included as a computer in reports that are designed to make Apple stock go up, and vice versa.
post #102 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Way to pull usage of superfical without understanding the point.. again.

I am only pulling out what you are writing. I made a list of tasks that the ipad does that are also done on computers and you called them superficial. So yes I pulled it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) You cant have it both ways, .

Actually I can have it both ways... because apple has it both ways. They sell pages, numbers and keynote to ipad users but not iphone users. So there is a clear distinction drawn by apple. I would hardly call that hypocritical. And I would hardly call that idiotic ... two characterizations you have attributed to my posts.
post #103 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

I am only pulling out what you are writing. I made a list of tasks that the ipad does that are also done on computers and you called them superficial. So yes I pulled it out.

Actually I can have it both ways... because apple has it both ways. They sell pages, numbers and keynote to ipad users but not iphone users. So there is a clear distinction drawn by apple. I would hardly call that hypocritical. And I would hardly call that idiotic ... two characterizations you have attributed to my posts.

Im not sure what Im more surprised by, your lack of reading comprehension or that fact that you keep digging yourself a deeper hole.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #104 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im not sure what Im more surprised by, your lack of reading comprehension or that fact that you keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

I'm sure we are all glad we have you around to decide who is digging themselves in holes.
post #105 of 143
Computer, peripheral, whatever you want to call it...

... Apple has 100% of the iPad market.

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post #106 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive?

C\setup.exe



Or perhaps you have to invoke a Wizard

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post #107 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Anything that "computes" is a computer. A calculator is called that because it doesn't compute, it calculates. There's a big difference. Look it up.

My car has several computers under the hood and none of them let me surf the internet. To upgrade the software I have drive over to the dealership and they hook it up to their computer. Many computers are designed for specific tasks, kind of like the iPad. It is design to be used in specific ways. It can't do everything that a desktop computer can do, but yes, it is still a computer.

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post #108 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

And how do you install new releases of the OS on the many netbooks that ship without a CD drive?


the ability to install / deploy software from across a network, for example, has been around for a long time. it's also worth pointing out that OSes can reside on other forms of media aside from optical discs.
post #109 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

My car has several computers under the hood and none of them let me surf the internet. To upgrade the software I have drive over to the dealership and they hook it up to their computer. Many computers are designed for specific tasks, kind of like the iPad. It is design to be used in specific ways. It can't do everything that a desktop computer can do, but yes, it is still a computer.

Right, if it meets the basic three-part definition of a computer, then it's a computer. According to the religious test some people insist on using, the iPhone isn't a computer either. As always, if a conclusion seems to be ludicrous, then it's a good idea to examine the premise.
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post #110 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It uses a computer cpu, though a very simple one. Whether it's a computer is debatable. My microwave does similar things, but its not a computer. It's not really computing.

whether you call the ipad a computer or not, one thing is for sure, apple is selling them like crazy. Probably about 4 million already. That's 4x what they sold of traditional computers and it was only out for 3 months*.

* i don't know the exact numbers.

There is almost no doubt that the ipad is stealing sales from computer vendors. Asus's huge drop is probably due to people switching away from their machines b/c of the ipad.

fb

ps does anyone remember when we were all mocking the name, iPad? lolz
post #111 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Maybe you ment to say right now they have 100% of the Tablet market?

No, that's not what I meant.
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post #112 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

IIRC from my computer science classes from years of yore, a computer is defined as a CPU + storage + input/output. If it's go those characteristics, it's a computer. Religious definitions not required.

Then cell phones, MP3 players, and a lot of devices and appliances count. Sure, they're all computers, but the line must be drawn somewhere for reporting purposes like this.
post #113 of 143
The "device reliant on another computer" argument against granting the iPad full "computer" status is a red herring, IMO.

How do I get updates to the software on my laptop? Where do I get the vast majority of new content? From the internet. Without an internet connection it's going to be a serious PITA to get the latest release of Firefox, grab a new desktop image, watch any video outside of DVDs, etc.

Just because the computers are distributed across a wide geography doesn't mean my "real" local computer isn't heavily reliant on them to function. In fact, I would go so far to say that anyone attempting to run a computer as a "stand alone device", sans network connections, is going to be sorely disappointed with their limited, frustrating experience.

More generally, any current definition of a computer is going to have to take into account the fact that such devices are most typically used as displays for internet enabled content, a trend that's steadily accelerating. If Google has their way, "computers" will be almost nothing but the famously unrealized "thin client" that was all the rage some years ago.

So why is a PC that's syncing all its data via Google's servers a real computer but an iPad that syncs its data with a computer in your house not?
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post #114 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Then cell phones, MP3 players, and a lot of devices and appliances count. Sure, they're all computers, but the line must be drawn somewhere for reporting purposes like this.

Reporting purposes such as what? The article relates to the sales of a specific subcategory of computers knowns as PCs, not to "computers" broadly. Perhaps the posters here who object to the iPad being called a "computer" are really objecting to it being called a "personal computer." Hard to say, but I'd challenge that assertion too.
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post #115 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Then my typo wasn't nearly as stupid as your previous comment.

jeez I thought it was kinda funny. A joke, if you will.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #116 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Reporting purposes such as what? The article relates to the sales of a specific subcategory of computers knowns as PCs, not to "computers" broadly. Perhaps the posters here who object to the iPad being called a "computer" are really objecting to it being called a "personal computer." Hard to say, but I'd challenge that assertion too.

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?

To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?
post #117 of 143
I've been a PC/Windows guy FOREVER, and am a software developer. But Windows has gotten incredibly slower over the past couple of years and versions, so despite incredible advances in hardware, basic tasks take much longer on my new, very expensive 8-proc desktop running Win7 versus my 8 year old single-proc PC running Windows 2000.

On top of that, Microsoft seems to come up with an entirely new user interface in all of its products every couple of releases, so you have to learn everything you used to be able to do from scratch.

The old argument that used to keep me on Windows machines is fading: it's NOT going to be tough to switch over and learn to use a Mac. The UI is easy in the first place, and in the second, Microsoft is going to make me learn it all over in 2 years anyway!

Apple's earned its increased market share, and Microsoft surely deserves to lose theirs.
post #118 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Reporting purposes such as what? The article relates to the sales of a specific subcategory of computers knowns as PCs, not to "computers" broadly. Perhaps the posters here who object to the iPad being called a "computer" are really objecting to it being called a "personal computer." Hard to say, but I'd challenge that assertion too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?

To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?

That is exactly what I and others have been trying to say and oddly getting jumped on for it.

These analysts are using the well set idea of what a PC is, and they have a right to define it as such and they need to draw the line somewhere.

Is a modern feature phone a smartphone just because its smarter than the first smartphones to be given that title?

Is a netbook note a notebook? What defines it as a netbook: the shrunken keyboard a maximum display size, the price, or the processor type? They certainly exist because of the Atom processor just as the iPad and the success of the tablet market now exist because of the advancement of ARM processors and the use of a mobile OS foundation over a classic Desktop OS.

I scratch my head at the people that get upset that arent so much upset by the lack of inclusion but by the term PC not allowing it to be included after they ignorantly analyze the separate definitions of the word and its origins as if language works that way and meanings dont evolve.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #119 of 143
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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?

To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?

What I take away from the success of the iPad is that these categories are are rapidly becoming irrelevant, and high time it is too. Lest we forget, the entire "PC" category is arbitrary, named and defined by a hardware platform developed by IBM nearly thirty years ago. How much should such an ancient technology definition matter today?
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #120 of 143
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Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

What I take away from the success of the iPad is that these categories are are rapidly becoming irrelevant, and high time it is too. Lest we forget, the entire "PC" category is arbitrary, named and defined by a hardware platform developed by IBM nearly thirty years ago. How much should such an ancient technology definition matter today?

Categories get consolidated or enlarged. Terms evolve or they simply vanish but a new category will take its place. We group everything. Its at least in our culture and possibly in our nature.

A few changes in my lifetime: Brontosaurus no longer exists. Homo neandertalensis is now Homo sapiens neandertalensis. Pluto is now a dwarf planet.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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