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Apple awarded several key multi-touch patents - Page 2

post #41 of 68
10/14/10 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Looks like the new patent will open up Google to a full-court press lawsuit from Apple WRT Android.

Android make Steve angry. No like when Steve angry,,, Steve SMASH!



But seriously, as All Day Breakfast points out, this may be more about forcing others to come up with their own methods of achieving similar results to Apple. The result may well be sub par results compared to Apple helping Apple stand out from the copy cats. On the other hand if Google et al can come up with their own unique alternatives that are better the industry leaps forward and Apple have to keep on their toes. It is a win win for consumers. Simply ripping of Apple's IP is damaging to the industry.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #42 of 68
10/14/10 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

I saw the Millenium Falcon in a movie quite awhile ago. I think I'm going to file a patent for it and wait for someone to make it. After all, it was in a movie, so it's not like it's going to be new when it comes out for real anyway.

Exactly ... But ... I have to think the guy was kidding ... I hope so anyway
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #43 of 68
10/14/10 at 5:51am
So does one click shopping, but nonetheless Amazon was the first to implement it and patent it. Apple pays a license to Amazon to use this feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPad999 View Post

Pinch to zoom seems kind of intuitive for any device..
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post #44 of 68
10/14/10 at 5:54am
Yes, but Apple also bought Finger works, which had patents for the earlier multi-touch innovations. By extension, Apple owns those patents as well. Smart move on Apple's part. Again, you can patent two different ways of achieving the same result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Had also been around since the early 90s making it a bit odd for apple to now have a patent on it. Or is it really perfectly acceptable just to add the words "on a portable device" to the end of an idea and its considered completely new.
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post #45 of 68
10/14/10 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Seen it way before the iphone in movies. About as 'unique' as a dog with 4 legs.

No you didn't. You saw a bunch of special effects in those moves. Not an actual implementation of the idea.
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post #46 of 68
10/14/10 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It seems crazy doesn't it?!?!

I think Apple and Microsoft are going to continue to pepper a lot of the smaller manufacturers with lawsuits. HP might get in on the action as well with their Palm patent portfolio.

It's probably the one thing that is going to hold back Android a little bit.

thats why apple and ms are evil and should be avoided till they change their attitude.
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post #47 of 68
10/14/10 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It seems crazy doesn't it?!?!

I think Apple and Microsoft are going to continue to pepper a lot of the smaller manufacturers with lawsuits. HP might get in on the action as well with their Palm patent portfolio.

It's probably the one thing that is going to hold back Android a little bit.

I heard people say that Industrial Revolution was made by the use of patents,
Now you are saying it is against creativity (hardly in electronics, maybe in the pharm. industry)?

If Apple patented Mac back them, i am sure Microsoft would have made windows better!
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post #48 of 68
10/14/10 at 6:54am
Who cares about the various arguments about who-invented-this-before-that.... Apple has the patent. Period.

Time to go kick some serious Android ***, Apple!

Woo-hoo!
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post #49 of 68
10/14/10 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It seems crazy doesn't it?!?!

I think Apple and Microsoft are going to continue to pepper a lot of the smaller manufacturers with lawsuits. HP might get in on the action as well with their Palm patent portfolio.

It's probably the one thing that is going to hold back Android a little bit.

But it seems to me that, for the most part, Apple uses its patent portfolio as a means of defense, not just to go on the offensive. Apple is certainly aggressive when it comes to protecting it's trademark and copyrights, but I think most of its patent lawsuits have been in the form of counter-suits after another company has fired the first shot.

It remains to be seen how Apple will leverage these newly granted patents. Will they go on the offensive against other companies? Or will they hold the patents as a deterent to prevent other companies from filing lawsuits against Apple?
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post #50 of 68
10/14/10 at 7:52am
You can not patent an idea!
You can only patent the implementation of an idea.
Sure, pinch to zoom in and out is a great idea and has been around for a long time. Apple implemented it and got a patent on that implementation.
Hard to understand?
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post #51 of 68
10/14/10 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Perhaps the phrase "mutli touch" wasn't obvious enough for you?

Care to cite a single example of two fingers, styli or anything else working together to create a zoom effect before the iPhone?

Sure, pan and zoom with a keyboard, mouse or some other combination of the two is old hat - but what the iPhone had - multi-touch - two or more fingers creating gestures like pinch to zoom was and now is unique. It's obvious now, but apparently it wasn't that obvious pre-iPhone or someone else would have got there first (or bought the company Apple did for the would-be wise a$$es out there)

wise up
1991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8lCetZ_57g

apple has patented a specific implementation but the fact is they didn't 'invent' the technology or the idea.
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post #52 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

wise up
1991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8lCetZ_57g

That's more like move finger to select, not pinch to zoom. If you can't see the difference I can't help you. Not to mention this is a camera based object tracking input, not a touch sensitive screen.
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post #53 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shehan2 View Post

That's more like move finger to select, not pinch to zoom. If you can't see the difference I can't help you. Not to mention this is a camera based object tracking input, not a touch sensitive screen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch

some more for you. get the idea?

MS could take this to court and get it killed i imagine. so don't see apple going after ms anytime soon.
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post #54 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:11am
You must realize that the patent does not only include the act of "pinch and zoom", but the method. Their patent will relate to how the hardware is able to detect more than one finger. Apple not only created the multi-touch method, the idea and the implementation, but had done it so well, that several reviews and tests have shown the iPhone to have superior resolution of the placement of the fingers compared to other phones. When something is done so well, we think it is easy and intuitive. This is what sets Apple apart from the others. They strive for intuitiveness in all of their designs.
Look, the iPhone has a shake to undo feature that could also be compared to Ohio Art's Etch-A-Sketch, but since the method of the act is different, I don't think Apple's lawyers are afraid of getting a letter from Ohio Art anytime soon. (then again....)

I still think Apple will start suing the other phone manufacturers and maybe Google at some point. Might as well wait until there are plenty of devices out there before they pull the trigger, so it will make it worth their effort. Why sue when there are only 30-40 million devices, when you can wait a while and sue when there are 200 million. This way, they can cover their lawyer's fees with that kind of settlement.
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post #55 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:12am
Gotta love Apple Insider's accurate reporting.

The pinch-to-zoom patent isn't on pinch-to-zoom. It's a very specific implementation of pinch-to-zoom that includes a release and secondary pinch-to-zoom within a specific period of time. If someone else's pinch-to-zoom doesn't look for a release then attempt to detect another pinch-to-zoom within that window of time, Apple's patent isn't being infringed upon. So the chance of other phones with pinch-to-zoom infringing is actually pretty low.

Time to do a little more homework, guys.
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post #56 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:31am
[QUOTE=DocNo42;1732207]Perhaps the phrase "mutli touch" wasn't obvious enough for you?

Care to cite a single example of two fingers, styli or anything else working together to create a zoom effect before the iPhone?

Uhm... Jeff Han's demo at TED Conference 2006?

http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv...&v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ
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post #57 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Had also been around since the early 90s making it a bit odd for apple to now have a patent on it. Or is it really perfectly acceptable just to add the words "on a portable device" to the end of an idea and its considered completely new.

Just curious but which product used this?
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post #58 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

Seriously what a loser fan boy.

What does that make you for posting on an Apple "Fan boy" forum? Just sayin'
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post #59 of 68
10/14/10 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day Breakfast View Post

The problem with the general points in this thread is they are based on the AppleInsider article and not the patent itself. ...

I'm glad someone finally pointed out that it's the way this article inexpertly and incorrectly summarises the patent that is at fault.

From what I've read of some summaries of the patents over at Patently Apple, I take this decision to basically equate to:

If your not Apple ...

- you can't use the term "multi-touch" at all.
- you *can* use "touch"
- you *can* use scrolling, but not "inertial scrolling" with the snapback
- you *can* use swipes, and touch buttons
- you *can* use pinch to zoom, but only alone, & in a very simple way.

and here's the kicker...

Everything else seems patented by Apple especially if we are talking mobile electronic devices. So every other two finger gesture you can think of (rotating, etc.) and every three or four finger gesture would appear to be off limits.

Which all sounds pretty fair to me given the history of multi-touch and Jeff Han and Fingerworks etc.
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post #60 of 68
10/14/10 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Seen it way before the iphone in movies. About as 'unique' as a dog with 4 legs.

Come on, stop playin' dumb. You're giving us Vancouverites a bad name ..... oh, wait a minute, ... maybe you're not playin' ...... \

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post #61 of 68
10/14/10 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Come on, stop playin' dumb. You're giving us Vancouverites a bad name ..... oh, wait a minute, ... maybe you're not playin' ...... \

Not playing dumb, just having some fun with the local trolls who actually think Apple invented & came up with the idea of 'pinch to zoom' on a computer device... which they didn't.

Might I note it's the same morons who whine and bitch every time Apple is sued, about how messed up the patent system is... Yet cheer when Apple gets their own ridiculous patents.

A patent on the multi-touch technology I agree with.
A patent on finger gestures... That's absurd.

I have a few Apple shares and cheer for them as well... But I'm not about to celebrate the US patent office decisions to pass everything that cross's their desk.
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post #62 of 68
10/14/10 at 11:04am
Apple has really done a great job on Muti-touch . Iphone supports 5 muti-touches and ipad supports 11... What else devices can give u this?? NONE.... I believe Imac touch would be a reinvention of touch desktop!!
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post #63 of 68
10/14/10 at 11:14am
Here is what the competitors are going to end up with after litigation with Apple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb9pXXwxViA

Watch it. It is really funny.
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post #64 of 68
10/14/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Not playing dumb, just having some fun with the local trolls who actually think Apple invented & came up with the idea of 'pinch to zoom' on a computer device... which they didn't.

Fair enough, but let's face it, having an idea is easy .... I do it every day. The real trick is developing that idea into a product and bringing to market. That is the true genius of Apple and nobody does that better than Apple. I think that most people actually realize that.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #65 of 68
10/14/10 at 11:57am
What is the point? All the big boys just use the tech anyway. Court cases take decades and by the time anything has happened only the lawyers win.
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post #66 of 68
10/14/10 at 12:14pm
Maybe the HG Wells family trust should sue NASA.

A work of fiction using special effects is not "prior art".

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

I saw pinch to zoom and all the other gestures in the movie 'Minority Report' back in 2002.
Steven Spielberg should sue Apple for patent rights.

This patent was applied for in December 2005.

So Apple has a time travel patent somewhere, do they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn616 View Post

Jeff Han at TED Feb 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLnNG...ext=1&index=12

Apple did not invent Multi-touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delventhalz View Post

Notice his extensive use of the multi-touch pinch-to-zoom at 0:45.

When was he demoing this?
February 2006

When was the iPhone released?
January 2007

Force them to innovate and come up with their own methods, don't you mean, leading to more choice for consumers.

Nokia was doing ok with circle to zoom on the n900 until they joined the others on the easier route of copying Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

And eliminate all competition in the mobile industry. Stupidest idea I have heard from the fan boys on here yet, and that is saying something!

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #67 of 68
10/14/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Fair enough, but let's face it, having an idea is easy .... I do it every day. The real trick is developing that idea into a product and bringing to market. That is the true genius of Apple and nobody does that better than Apple. I think that most people actually realize that.

You have a point... but the problem is that patents are for idea's, not products.
Products are something you invest in once you have the patent, or a working model.

What we see today is companies patenting basic human movement or speech or pure logic. People can't get simple medication because mega bio corps have patents on chemical equations. Even the human genome is being patented. Vivendi is still trying to patent water, and has been successful on several of them.
... and in the end, how is this working out for the global economy and people's lives?

Pinch to zoom should not have been allowed to be patented. Neither should have 1 click shopping.
Patent the technology behind it, but not the human interaction.
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post #68 of 68
10/14/10 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

You have a point... but the problem is that patents are for idea's, not products. ........
...... Pinch to zoom should not have been allowed to be patented. Neither should have 1 click shopping.
Patent the technology behind it, but not the human interaction.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I'm assuming that the patents are for the process of making the gesture work on a computer, not for the gesture itself .... no?

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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