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Why the Apple hate?

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
My first Apple product was an iPhone 3G, I was so impressed I got an iMac and an iPad and now we have iPhone 4s in my house.

What I don't understand is why people react so harshly when there is like an Apple oriented news story or product launch. It seems irrational.
post #2 of 59
Apple disintermediates the geeks by democratizing technology. Once upon a time, people needed help setting the time on their VCRs. In the computing world, people need help choosing, buying, setting up, and using PCs, smartphones, and everything else.

Apple's philosophy runs counter to the geek culture by enabling average people to do extraordinary things. If everyone owns an Apple product, the high-priests of tech are out of a job, or worse, made to be laughing stocks.

Remember smartphones before Apple entered the market? It was a geek paradise. Apple came along and made them look stupid with one product release. Remember tablets? You get the idea.

Android came along and re-empowered the geeks. Enough said.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #3 of 59
Everything to do with Apple is irrational.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #4 of 59
Apple is all about lock-in, and non-upgradable machines. want a new cpu? Buy a new Mac. Want a new graphics card? Buy a new Mac. Want a new screen? etc etc. Apple portrays itself as being green, but that's Apple's world-class marketing. Anything besides RAM and Harddisk expansion requires purchasing a new, multi-thousand dollar machine. If that sounds like you, you're in luck; they're great machines. Most of the time. For a price that would make PC users blush.

There's also perceived gaps in their product lines. Blue ray. Current GPUs. A desktop that sells for ($1000) less than $2000. Etc.

As for movies and music and TV shows, people are either happy in the Apple bubble, or have no interest in it at all. 720p max resolution, and no support for any files other than content purchased or re-encoded for iTunes, means the Apple TV is for die-hard Apple fans. Everybody else will look for a device that supports their existing libraries of media, and likely 1080p output. And don't require a computer to be running.

I personally don't buy any media from Apple; I stick to good old-fashioned MP3s, 320kb/s, LAME-encoded purchased at Beatport.com (I mostly listen to electronic stuff and their catalog and sound quality are amazing). I do pirate a lot of jazz from dead artists, like Miles Davis, Julie London or Bill Evans, because they're dead and I really don't think they mind.

I don't buy TV shows because <insert elitist attitude about the quality of TV programming>. I don't buy movies; I either watch them in theaters or rent them.
post #5 of 59
I expect their heirs or trustees appreciate you side-stepping the 70 years after death rule you have in the States. Mind you, Miles Davies took Bill Evans' copyright for Blue In Green, while they were both alive, didn't he?

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I'll never get back the time i just wasted reading that post." Miami Craig
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post #6 of 59
I'm not surprised someone's figured out a way to make money off someone else's work after they are dead; heck I'd be surprised if no one had. But legal or not, for me it's no moral conundrum. I vote with my dollars, and my hard earned money is for people who contribute to society. Don't get me started on copyright and patent law...

Blue in Green is amazing; that sucks Miles was a dick about that. But douche or not, the guy could do some amazing stuff with three valves!
post #7 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryo View Post

My first Apple product was an iPhone 3G, I was so impressed I got an iMac and an iPad and now we have iPhone 4s in my house.

What I don't understand is why people react so harshly when there is like an Apple oriented news story or product launch. It seems irrational.

Envy.
post #8 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

Apple is all about lock-in, and non-upgradable machines. want a new cpu? Buy a new Mac. Want a new graphics card? Buy a new Mac. Want a new screen? etc etc.

Because that's what the average consumer wants... simplicity. Apple is NOT marketing their products at "geeks".
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #9 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Apple disintermediates the geeks by democratizing technology. Once upon a time, people needed help setting the time on their VCRs. In the computing world, people need help choosing, buying, setting up, and using PCs, smartphones, and everything else.

Apple's philosophy runs counter to the geek culture by enabling average people to do extraordinary things. If everyone owns an Apple product, the high-priests of tech are out of a job, or worse, made to be laughing stocks.

Remember smartphones before Apple entered the market? It was a geek paradise. Apple came along and made them look stupid with one product release. Remember tablets? You get the idea.

Android came along and re-empowered the geeks. Enough said.

This.

Geeks strike back by ranting about how Apple makes stuff for stupid people and sheep that don't know how to use computers; that the lock-in and walled garden are fascistic and only exist because Apple's customers are too frightened and dull witted to think for themselves.

Needless to say, geeks are horrible, emotionally crippled assholes who think their impossibly truncated world of symbolic logic and esthetics-free obsessive-compulsive diversions are the pinnacle of human achievement. The extent to which Apple loosens their grip on our access to information technology is precisely the extent to which Apple is serving the greater good.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #10 of 59
Uh, or the truth lies somewhere in between the Apple Haters' rantings, and the Apple Apologists' excusings. Apple make computers. Those computers appeal to some. They don't appeal to others. Both, for myriad subjective reasons.
post #11 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

Uh, or the truth lies somewhere in between the Apple Haters' rantings, and the Apple Apologists' excusings. Apple make computers. Those computers appeal to some. They don't appeal to others. Both, for myriad subjective reasons.

I don't see how any of that addresses the odd specious of virulent hatred reserved for Apple, Apple's products, and Apple's users. What "truth" is to be found by splitting the difference between that level of animosity and people who like and use Apple products?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #12 of 59
I have to say though, all the shipping and packaging of DIY PC building components, are quite ridiculous in themselves. The motherboard, GPU boxes, CDs, manuals, 500grams of heatpipes of copper and aluminium, not to mention power consumed by good rigs... 500W is minimum now for non-locked-in, upgradeable, powerful, cutting-edge PCs.

That said when is the ATI 6850 coming out? I need those damn GPU prices to come down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

Apple is all about lock-in, and non-upgradable machines. want a new cpu? Buy a new Mac. Want a new graphics card? Buy a new Mac. Want a new screen? etc etc. Apple portrays itself as being green, but that's Apple's world-class marketing. Anything besides RAM and Harddisk expansion requires purchasing a new, multi-thousand dollar machine. If that sounds like you, you're in luck; they're great machines. Most of the time. For a price that would make PC users blush.

There's also perceived gaps in their product lines. Blue ray. Current GPUs. A desktop that sells for ($1000) less than $2000. Etc.

As for movies and music and TV shows, people are either happy in the Apple bubble, or have no interest in it at all. 720p max resolution, and no support for any files other than content purchased or re-encoded for iTunes, means the Apple TV is for die-hard Apple fans. Everybody else will look for a device that supports their existing libraries of media, and likely 1080p output. And don't require a computer to be running.

I personally don't buy any media from Apple; I stick to good old-fashioned MP3s, 320kb/s, LAME-encoded purchased at Beatport.com (I mostly listen to electronic stuff and their catalog and sound quality are amazing). I do pirate a lot of jazz from dead artists, like Miles Davis, Julie London or Bill Evans, because they're dead and I really don't think they mind.

I don't buy TV shows because <insert elitist attitude about the quality of TV programming>. I don't buy movies; I either watch them in theaters or rent them.
post #13 of 59
Quote:
That said when is the ATI 6850 coming out? I need those damn GPU prices to come down!

2 days from now. So expect to see them in Macs in about a year.

Quote:
I don't see how any of that addresses the odd specious of virulent hatred reserved for Apple, Apple's products, and Apple's users. What "truth" is to be found by splitting the difference between that level of animosity and people who like and use Apple products?

That's true; I apologize. I don't know what causes the virulent hate.
post #14 of 59
The only current thing I hate is 4.2 changing the orientation lock switch to a mute switch on my iPad.

I can't (and therefore refuse) to get used to being forced to open multitasking to lock my orientation. I LOVE that hardware switch enough that I might downgrade, other benefits be screwed.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #15 of 59
As for my earlier assertion about Apple and their 'greeness': http://www.tomshardware.com/news/env...l#xtor=RSS-181
post #16 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

2 days from now

Cool. Yeah, won't be on Macs for a while muah ha ha ha ha
post #17 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

Apple is all about lock-in, and non-upgradable machines. want a new cpu? Buy a new Mac. Want a new graphics card? Buy a new Mac. Want a new screen? etc etc. Apple portrays itself as being green, but that's Apple's world-class marketing. Anything besides RAM and Harddisk expansion requires purchasing a new, multi-thousand dollar machine. If that sounds like you, you're in luck; they're great machines. Most of the time. For a price that would make PC users blush.

The way Apple does it simply makes more sense. When it's time for me to upgrade my computer, I sure as hell don't want to upgrade SOME of the components, leaving others behind. I don't want to upgrade the CPU, for instance, and still have slow RAM and FSB. I don't want to upgrade the graphics card and have an obsolete CPU. I don't want to upgrade parts here and parts there and maybe have compatibility issues or issues when a new version of the OS is released. When it's time to get a new Mac, I get a new CPU, new bus, new RAM, new I/O ports, new display technology... the works. It's simply more efficient to do it the Apple way.

I'm buying an Apple TV because being a Mac, iTunes and iPod user, all my media is encoded or converted to a compatible format. If I download an incompatible film, it's just a quick conversion away and voilÃ*, it works with all my Apple devices. It just makes sense to do it that way.
post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

Apple portrays itself as being green, but that's Apple's world-class marketing.

The "greenest" product is one that stays out of the junkyard (as I type this on my 10+ year old iMac).
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post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

When it's time to get a new Mac, I get a new CPU, new bus, new RAM, new I/O ports, new display technology... the works.

Nice to see there's something we can agree upon tonton
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post #20 of 59
Thread Starter 
I had a co worker say something about how "Macs are alright, unless you need to right-click! HAR HAR!"

I was thinking he got lost in the early part of the last decade and never found his way out.
post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryo View Post

I had a co worker say something about how "Macs are alright, unless you need to right-click! HAR HAR!"

I was thinking he got lost in the early part of the last decade and never found his way out.

1993 called. They want their excuse back.

What's wrong with holding Control? It's not as though that hasn't been an option for decades.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #22 of 59
Since Apple sells mostly notebooks these days, I would say the average Mac user's response would be "What's right click? Do you mean two fingered tap?"

I'm so used to the trackpad on my MacBook Pro, and doing two fingered scroll, two fingered tap and the quick corner thing for Expose, that I can barely use a desktop anymore.

I'll admit though, I haven't really taken to the newer three fingered swipe for forward and back while browsing, or the four fingered Expose thing.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Everything to do with Apple is irrational.

Ha ha, that's a good one
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post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Since Apple sells mostly notebooks these days, I would say the average Mac user's response would be "What's right click? Do you mean two fingered tap?"

I'm so used to the trackpad on my MacBook Pro, and doing two fingered scroll, two fingered tap and the quick corner thing for Expose, that I can barely use a desktop anymore.

I'll admit though, I haven't really taken to the newer three fingered swipe for forward and back while browsing, or the four fingered Expose thing.

I like the three fingered swipes for navigation, but I use BetterTouchTool to make four finger swipes move between Spaces. Works great.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryo View Post

My first Apple product was an iPhone 3G, I was so impressed I got an iMac and an iPad and now we have iPhone 4s in my house.

What I don't understand is why people react so harshly when there is like an Apple oriented news story or product launch. It seems irrational.

My guess is that it comes down to "Think Different" - not the Apple advertising campaign, but the way Apple creates products.

Most tech companies are engineering-led. They create engineering products for a technical audience. The engineers compete to include ever more wizardry.

But Apple is design-led. The designers set the goals, the form factor, how it will be used, and the engineering guys have to accommodate the design.

This produces devices that are a result of thinking differently. The products reflect entirely different priorities. User experience is given much more weight than feature count.

For example, I'd wager that Apple's iPhone engineers spent far more man-months on getting scrolling right, than trying to implement MMS.

I think it is those differences that actually offend people. Apple's products go into the world as statements. And for some, that statement is interpreted as :

Quote:
"we at Apple profoundly disagree with you about what is important."

For some, they just don't like being spoken to like that. It's as if Apple is telling them that they are plain wrong or stupid. And that's where the hostility starts.

But some people will find an excuse to take anything personally.

C.
post #26 of 59
Thread Starter 
Well, I had some people over to my house and they wanted to watch south park. I powered up my iMac to go to the website and a couple were said things to the effect of "Ew, a Mac!". They left early and contact has really dropped off with them.

Granted, I don't need friends that petty, but maybe I should try to get more into the Mac/Apple community.
post #27 of 59
OK, that's fuqqed. "Eww, I don't like your computing platform"?

Seriously, those people are douches. I've never, ever met anyone that douchy in my life.

In fact, I find your story very hard to believe. Are you a troll in disguise?
post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

In fact, I find your story very hard to believe. Are you a troll in disguise?

Stop being a child. I'm surrounded by people like that. It's called college. Either live with it or get into fights.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #29 of 59
So there ARE people that douchy, AND they are over the age of 14?

College has changed since I went there...
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

So there ARE people that douchy, AND they are over the age of 14?

College has changed since I went there...

It's quite horrible. I sincerely apologize for my generation. I've found maybe ten of them who are actually interesting people (read: don't bore me out of my mind with hollow conversation and predictable emotional responses to situations, much less act as though they're still infants).

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

So there ARE people that douchy, AND they are over the age of 14?

College has changed since I went there...

But looking at Apple's value, revenue, and profits college students clearly are totally inconsequential to Apple. Joe Blow, Jane Doe, and Auntie Meredith have picked up the slack and ran with it. That's where the big numbers come from.
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokcet Scientist View Post

But – looking at Apple's value, revenue, and profits – college students clearly are totally inconsequential to Apple. Joe Blow, Jane Doe, and Auntie Meredith have picked up the slack and ran with it. That's where the big numbers come from.



C.
post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


I was going to say exactly that Carniphage
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post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The way Apple does it simply makes more sense. When it's time for me to upgrade my computer, I sure as hell don't want to upgrade SOME of the components, leaving others behind. I don't want to upgrade the CPU, for instance, and still have slow RAM and FSB. I don't want to upgrade the graphics card and have an obsolete CPU. I don't want to upgrade parts here and parts there and maybe have compatibility issues or issues when a new version of the OS is released. When it's time to get a new Mac, I get a new CPU, new bus, new RAM, new I/O ports, new display technology... the works. It's simply more efficient to do it the Apple way.

I'm buying an Apple TV because being a Mac, iTunes and iPod user, all my media is encoded or converted to a compatible format. If I download an incompatible film, it's just a quick conversion away and voilÃ*, it works with all my Apple devices. It just makes sense to do it that way.

The issue with this approach is that there is no middle ground. A lot of what you're throwing away when buying a new Mac is actually still very usable, but you have no option but to throw it away since it is all integrated into one package. Equally, the older the machine gets, the more compromises you keep having to make until you can afford to replace the entire thing. For instance, I could buy a shiny new GPU and pop it into my 2.5 year old PC, and I'd be able to play the latest games on fairly high quality settings. If you wanted to play the same games on a 2.5 year old iMac (let's pretend said games are available), you'd either have to compromise on the quality of the game/graphics, or toss the whole thing out and buy a new one.

It always makes me laugh when Apple trump their environmental credentials as they are truly the masters of planned obsolesence. It's testament to their fantastic marketting ability that people would actually believe that Apple are remotely interested in their environmental impact short of a few token gestures to keep the wolves at bay.
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

The issue with this approach is that there is no middle ground. A lot of what you're throwing away when buying a new Mac is actually still very usable, but you have no option but to throw it away since it is all integrated into one package. Equally, the older the machine gets, the more compromises you keep having to make until you can afford to replace the entire thing. For instance, I could buy a shiny new GPU and pop it into my 2.5 year old PC, and I'd be able to play the latest games on fairly high quality settings. If you wanted to play the same games on a 2.5 year old iMac (let's pretend said games are available), you'd either have to compromise on the quality of the game/graphics, or toss the whole thing out and buy a new one.

It always makes me laugh when Apple trump their environmental credentials as they are truly the masters of planned obsolesence. It's testament to their fantastic marketting ability that people would actually believe that Apple are remotely interested in their environmental impact short of a few token gestures to keep the wolves at bay.

But in point of fact those billions of PCs that "could" be upgraded never are. The regular folk I know buy dirt cheap PCs and simply toss them when they start slowing down to unacceptable levels, due to whatever combination of the OS, malware, viruses, and newer, more demanding apps.

The entire commodity PC market is built on disposability, not upgradeability. Sell for razor thin margins at the lowest possible price, have a nicer one waiting on the shelf at an even lower price in a year or two. Upgradeability is just sort of a bullet point on the features list, something for the sales person to reassure the buyer with.

Most of the folks I know with Apple machines keep them running far longer than their PC using brethren, which is what really matters in the green picture.
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post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But in point of fact those billions of PCs that "could" be upgraded never are. The regular folk I know buy dirt cheap PCs and simply toss them when they start slowing down to unacceptable levels, due to whatever combination of the OS, malware, viruses, and newer, more demanding apps.

The entire commodity PC market is built on disposability, not upgradeability. Sell for razor thin margins at the lowest possible price, have a nicer one waiting on the shelf at an even lower price in a year or two. Upgradeability is just sort of a bullet point on the features list, something for the sales person to reassure the buyer with.

Most of the folks I know with Apple machines keep them running far longer than their PC using brethren, which is what really matters in the green picture.

This is also true, but I can't say that that's the case in my life! I have PCs running for years, passed down through the family until they are eventually ready for the scrap heap. The oldest at the moment is an Athlon64 machine I put together in 2004, which'll be celebrating it's 7th birthday in about 6 months or so! I have also just retired the first ever PC I built for someone for money, which was a staggering 9 years old, and finally gave up the ghost!

I have to say I don't really know anyone with an Apple computer, but those who I know that own PCs tend to keep them for a lot of years before replacing them.
post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

This is also true, but I can't say that that's the case in my life! I have PCs running for years, passed down through the family until they are eventually ready for the scrap heap. The oldest at the moment is an Athlon64 machine I put together in 2004, which'll be celebrating it's 7th birthday in about 6 months or so! I have also just retired the first ever PC I built for someone for money, which was a staggering 9 years old, and finally gave up the ghost!

I have to say I don't really know anyone with an Apple computer, but those who I know that own PCs tend to keep them for a lot of years before replacing them.

Sure, for what I think is a small subset of PC users upgradeability is very useful, and understandably so. I kept an older Mac Pro running for years but upgrading components, something I couldn't' do with an iMac or Mini.

But consider also that the entire computer market is swinging away from desktops altogether, and that more and more PC laptop manufacturers are following Apples lead by making their stuff smaller and lighter but less accessible. We're even seeing non-replacable batteries start to make some inroads in PC land. I think the old "but I can build my own for cheap/upgrade for cheap" PC advantage thing is rapidly becoming moot, if it was ever that significant. My impression is that the majority of folks trotting out that line had never cracked the case of their Dell or HP.
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post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I have to say I don't really know anyone with an Apple computer, but those who I know that own PCs tend to keep them for a lot of years before replacing them.

Which shows that you shouldn't project. Statistically Macs are used twice as long as PCs before they get replaced.
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokcet Scientist View Post

Which shows that you shouldn't project. Statistically Macs are used twice as long as PCs before they get replaced.

They also maintain a great resale value.

C.
post #40 of 59
Quote:
they are truly the masters of planned obsolescence.

Bingo.

And say what you will about the 'advantages' of an all-in-one, but I'd feel pretty weird tossing out a perfectly good 2560x1600 IPS iMac display simply because Apple shipped it with a crappy, non-upgradeable GPU 4 years earlier.
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