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Categorizing iPad as PC would make Apple largest in US market

post #1 of 121
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Reclassifying the iPad as a PC in terms of sales would catapult Apple past rivals Dell and HP, elevating the Mac maker to the No. 1 computer manufacturer in the U.S., one Wall Street analyst has noted.

In a note to investors, Chris Whitmore of Deutsche Bank said he believes that the iPad should be included in PC sales. Currently, the touchscreen tablet falls into its own category.

Last week, quarterly PC sales estimates forecast that Apple cracked more than 10 percent of U.S. sales for the third quarter of 2010. Research firm IDC estimated that Apple sold around 2 million Macs domestically, good for a 10.6 percent market share.

The IDC data shows that the PC market grew 4 percent year over year in the third quarter. But the market growth would actually have been 24 percent if the data included iPad sales, Whitmore noted. He has projected sales of 3.6 million units in the third quarter.

"Apple's share in the U.S. computer market is ~25% including iPad which makes it the market leader after an 18 point share jump in only 2 quarters, followed by ~20% for HP and ~19% for Dell," Whitmore wrote.

Mac units, excluding the iPad, grew 24 percent year over year, but with the iPad, Apple's sales grew about 250 percent from the same quarter a year ago. For comparison, HP sales grew 3 percent year over year, while Dell units slid 5 percent.



Apple has aggressively expanded the retail presence of the iPad before the coming holiday season, bringing the device to companies like Target and Amazon. In addition, Verizon, the largest wireless provider in the U.S., will sell the Wi-Fi-only models of the iPad starting Oct. 28.

Whitmore said he believes that retail expansion of the iPad will propel sales of the device even higher. In just its first 80 days of availability, Apple sold more than 3 million iPads.

"We believe the lack of meaningful competition in the tablet space and expanded channel distribution (Target, Walmart, etc) entering the holiday will further expand Apple's competitive lead/first mover advantage," he wrote. "The competitive response to the iPad has been remarkably absent and late (from HP, Asus, Acer, Samsung etc) and we expect strong iPad demand into 4Q (additional countries/channels) to support share gains going forward, particularly as the international roll-out gains steam."

The analyst said that all PC vendors will be impacted by the success of the iPad, but the greatest losses are projected to be experienced by HP, the largest U.S. vendor in the latest IDC figures.
post #2 of 121
I for one, bought an iPad instead of a Mac.
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post #3 of 121
Uh oh! An entire article first thing Monday morning about what defines a ‘PC’ that will surely be filled with silly archaic or root definitions of the separate words to defend a silly premise that has no baring to how language in used or evolves. #DebatingLeavingAppleInsiderForTheDay
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post #4 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

I for one, bought an iPad instead of a Mac.

What is your current desktop or laptop? If you are using a laptop are now planing on getting a desktop for your next machine over a laptop after using the iPad?
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post #5 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Uh oh! An entire article first thing Monday morning about what defines a PC that will surely be filled with silly archaic or root definitions of the separate words to defend a silly premise that has no baring to how language in used or evolves. #DebatingLeavingAppleInsiderForTheDay

Then again the 'other side' like to include net-books .. oops that just fuels the argument doesn't it?
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post #6 of 121
What's funny about this to me is that apple is the one computer company that clearly defines its separate line ups. The iPad runs ios not osx which clearly puts it more closely in a category with an itouch or iphone than with the macbooks. Other tablets coming to market are trying to run a pc os and this will clearly fail. Let the iPad be in the tablet category and let it dominate.
post #7 of 121
Who cares how the iPad is classified? They're selling boatloads of them at decent profit margins. Who cares whether Apple is 1st or 3rd in the US when they make billions of dollars in profit per quarter and put out the best products on the market?

The iPad's classification will shake out. Right now I think it's reasonable to put in with the iPods, although the differentiation between iOS and MacOS devices is lessening all the time. Eventually the iPod Touch will get lumped with computers as well, and THEN watch Apple's "market share" explode.
post #8 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Uh oh! An entire article first thing Monday morning about what defines a PC that will surely be filled with silly archaic or root definitions of the separate words to defend a silly premise that has no baring to how language in used or evolves. #DebatingLeavingAppleInsiderForTheDay

I think if people want to be more sensitive about these numbers then the correct terminology would be Windows PC and Mac PC. If these numbers are going to be used for HW unit sale then the iPad should be included as a PC. I looked up the definition of a PC on the web and the term says nothing about the form, OS, or function of the device. All the definitions basically says:

Quote:
a small digital computer based on a microprocessor

Even Ballmer consider the tablets, slates, and the iPad PCs.
post #9 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcahill009 View Post

What's funny about this to me is that apple is the one computer company that clearly defines its separate line ups. The iPad runs ios not osx which clearly puts it more closely in a category with an itouch or iphone than with the macbooks. Other tablets coming to market are trying to run a pc os and this will clearly fail. Let the iPad be in the tablet category and let it dominate.

Actually, the iPad runs a flavour of OS X now called iOS. What it doesn't run is the OS X flavour called Mac OS X.
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post #10 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What is your current desktop or laptop? If you are using a laptop are now planing on getting a desktop for your next machine over a laptop after using the iPad?

At home, I have an old PC I to host my iTunes library, all my "computer" stuff I try to do on my iPad.

At work I have a Mac and Windows.

btw: Adobe is doing it again, they released Acrobat X with a free downloadable trial for Windows, but the Mac version is not available yet!
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post #11 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Quote:
a small digital computer based on a microprocessor

Even Ballmer consider the tablets, slates, and the iPad PCs.

That opens up another can of worms when you consider how many products contain microprocessors. It might be easier to list what doesn't have them.
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post #12 of 121
Steve Jobs, unlike Ballmer, is going to enjoy a very nice christmas bonus
post #13 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcahill009 View Post

What's funny about this to me is that apple is the one computer company that clearly defines its separate line ups. The iPad runs ios not osx which clearly puts it more closely in a category with an itouch or iphone than with the macbooks. Other tablets coming to market are trying to run a pc os and this will clearly fail. Let the iPad be in the tablet category and let it dominate.

Apple has 2 OSes - Mac OS X and iOS. Both are OS X based, the primary difference is replacing the mouse based Cocoa framework with the touch based Cocoa touch framework. The core OS is the same.

Saying the iPad isn't a personal computer because it doesn't have a mouse/keyboard is like saying in 1984 that the Macintosh isn't a personal computer because it doesn't have a command line.

Apple started the personal computer industry with the Apple I, they transformed it with the Macintosh and are transforming it again with the iPad. The result is they've jumped to #1 in the US market for computer sales, jumping from 7-8% share when the iPad was announced to 25% share today.
post #14 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

I for one, bought an iPad instead of a Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What is your current desktop or laptop? If you are using a laptop are now planing on getting a desktop for your next machine over a laptop after using the iPad?

This would be a tough choice for me. I used to use mainly desktops back when laptops were fairly underpowered (my first laptop was a little-used PowerBook 190cs). Not counting my Mac mini HTPC, my last desktop was a Beige G3, which was replaced by a PowerBook G4 and then a Core2Duo MBP. I love the portability, and they are relatively powerful machines. But an even more powerful, larger screened iMac is very tempting.

So I guess the two questions are:
1) Is the iPad enough of a computer to handle the load when traveling and not need a MBP?
2) Can I stand being tied to a desk whenever I need something more than the iPad can deliver?

Of course, the compromise would be to get an iPad + 17" MBP (too big to carry around every day, but portable when it needs to be). I'm sure Steve & Co would love if I threw that much cash their way!

Edit & PS: Then again, if Apple created an iOS version of Aperture and an iPad powerful enough to run it, I'd be a very happy camper!
post #15 of 121
This obsession with market share never made any sense, and it is rather meaningless. Market share matters where most money is made with additional sales (like printer refills, light bulbs, etc.). PC makers do normally neither sell software, nor aftermarket upgrades and Apple's various online stores are largely irrelevant for the bottom line. If Apple wanted market share, it could give up some net profits (they can give up a pretty lot without even getting anywhere near the 0-2% margin that companies like Acer "enjoy") and they would be number one by market share in no time. But then, why give up being number one in profit share (in the US and a few European countries)?

There is no clear definition of "PC", just as there is no clear definition of a smartphone. Going by the definition mentioned above, my coffeemaker is a PC, my car is a PC and my watch is a PC... On the other side: a large number of netbooks are used exactly for the same tasks (or even less) as the iPad, or even an iPhone and a respectable number of desktop PCs (mainly those sold by Dell and HP) are just running as dumb terminals, accessing some mainframe or virtualization solution...

The real question, IMHO, is not what the right definition is. The question is how these statistics presented by IDC and Gartner can remain relevant, if they exclude iPads (and future competition)... The money spent on tablets comes out of the same budgets, they use some identical parts and manufacturers, they connect to the same infrastructure and, maybe the clearest argument to make, people normally do not carry both. I do not take an iPad and my MBP with me ever. Since it arrived, I have not taken my MBP out of the house even once. And this is only a first generation device with first generation software. Future tablets will do even more, most likely enough for most private and quite a few business users (excluding highly specific stuff).
post #16 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That opens up another can of worms when you consider how many products contain microprocessors. It might be easier to list what doesn't have them.

That was my point. The only agree with this part. Each source uses different definition. By the way, look at Wikipedia definition of PC. It looks like to was written by Microsoft
post #17 of 121
Shhhhhhhh!!

Don't ' tell anybody this! It is a secret for the smart investors!!
post #18 of 121
Wow! I think Apple will make the iPad as stand alone "computer" in the next iteration. That's amazing!

Best
post #19 of 121
The odd thing is that someone will say something like "The iPhone, which is more of a portable computer than just a phone…" Then they will turn around and argue that an iPad is not really a computer.

post #20 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

This would be a tough choice for me. I used to use mainly desktops back when laptops were fairly underpowered (my first laptop was a little-used PowerBook 190cs). Not counting my Mac mini HTPC, my last desktop was a Beige G3, which was replaced by a PowerBook G4 and then a Core2Duo MBP. I love the portability, and they are relatively powerful machines. But an even more powerful, larger screened iMac is very tempting.

So I guess the two questions are:
1) Is the iPad enough of a computer to handle the load when traveling and not need a MBP?
2) Can I stand being tied to a desk whenever I need something more than the iPad can deliver?

Of course, the compromise would be to get an iPad + 17" MBP (too big to carry around every day, but portable when it needs to be). I'm sure Steve & Co would love if I threw that much cash their way!

Edit & PS: Then again, if Apple created an iOS version of Aperture and an iPad powerful enough to run it, I'd be a very happy camper!


I only connect my iPad to a computer when I need to update the software. I store all my data on MobileMe. You can also connect a USB equipped camera and download photos from your digital camera.

Having said that, I find that the current iOS is not mature enough to replace a full-blown OS such as OSX yet. It lacks a system-wide filing-system, and as you mentioned, many professional level applications are not here yet. That is why I feel that Apple should not play tough with companies like Adobe yet.
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post #21 of 121
The iPad will probably be a PC by the time Mac OSXI come out. I believe 10.7 (Lion) will be the last iteration of OSX, it will likely have some more touch friendly features, a new look UI, and some iOS integration (Apple TV interface to replace front row please). I see OSXI as the unifying OS that allows Apple to run a single OS across all their platforms.

That's a ways down the road though. Right now, I wouldn't define an iPad as a PC when an iTunes sync is required.
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post #22 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What is your current desktop or laptop? If you are using a laptop are now planing on getting a desktop for your next machine over a laptop after using the iPad?

solip - aside from being an early adopter, i bought an iPad in order to delay the need for updating my aging macbook. The macbook will be replaced by an iMac. I imagine I'm not the only one with this setup.
post #23 of 121
Irrelevant. It's NOT a PC it does no more than 10% of what a PC could do.

Unless, of course, you could install Linux on the thing.
post #24 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Uh oh! An entire article first thing Monday morning about what defines a PC that will surely be filled with silly archaic or root definitions of the separate words to defend a silly premise that has no baring to how language in used or evolves. #DebatingLeavingAppleInsiderForTheDay

An attempt at a preemptive strike?
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post #25 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

solip - aside from being an early adopter, i bought an iPad in order to delay the need for updating my aging macbook. The macbook will be replaced by an iMac. I imagine I'm not the only one with this setup.

I think that will be pretty common sentiment. The iPad is a satellite computer that will allow many to go back to having a desktop as their rooted computer.

I have to wonder if well see a surge in desktop sales in todays stats.
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post #26 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcahill009 View Post

...The iPad runs ios not osx ...

iOS IS OS X, it just isn't the Mac version of OS X however. \
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post #27 of 121
I'll call it a PC when it stops needing a PC to do everything.

I still need a PC to print, to write software, to centrally manage my files, to store the 160 GB of music I have, to play the most current games, to type on comfortably for long periods of time, to draw on, to do 3D modelling and animation, to handle nonlinear video editing ...

(inhale)

... to burn DVDs for the rest of my family, to connect to all those USB-based peripherals that don't have SD cards, to post comments on blogs, to have more than a 1024x768 view of the internet, to have an HID that's more precise than my thumb or fingertip, to read those silly Flash-based e-cards I get ...

... to do with it whatever I want, whether Steve Jobs likes it or not.
post #28 of 121
I guess the argument could be that an iPad is not a stand-alone device. You must have a primary computer (at this point) to sync with. I think that will change and the iPad will become a cloud-based device with version 2.0.

But who cares. I'd rather the iPad fly under the radar as long as it can until Apple dominates the whole computer, smart phone and media player landscapes together.
post #29 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

iOS IS OS X, it just isn't the Mac version of OS X however. \

iOS is based on OSX. Even Apple hasn't continued to market the two as the same thing.
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post #30 of 121
But it's not a PC, so why even bother with the if it was argument?
post #31 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Reclassifying the iPad as a PC in terms of sales would catapult Apple past rivals Dell and HP, elevating the Mac maker to the No. 1 computer manufacturer in the U.S., one Wall Street analyst has noted.

Then they should include the ipod Touch too! The two products have basically the same guts.
post #32 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Uh oh! An entire article first thing Monday morning about what defines a PC that will surely be filled with silly archaic or root definitions of the separate words to defend a silly premise that has no baring to how language in used or evolves. #DebatingLeavingAppleInsiderForTheDay

It's simple really -- all we need do is agree what comprises a "proper" computer running a "proper" OS. Those discussing productivity or usability are just muddying the water..
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post #33 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Then again the 'other side' like to include net-books .. oops that just fuels the argument doesn't it?

Why wouldn't a netbook be included in the definition of pc? They are exactly within the definition. 100% the same as any other PC, just smaller and with lesser specs than some others.
post #34 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post



Even Ballmer consider the tablets, slates, and the iPad PCs.

If the definition is good enough for Ballmer, seemingly, it is good enough for ... who?
post #35 of 121
It's gonna be interesting to see the palm hp tablet when it comes out. Dell has positioned itself with the android crew, so whatever hp isnworking on better be pretty spectacular for them to turn not running android into an advantage/ differentiation factor.
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post #36 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Actually, the iPad runs a flavour of OS X now called iOS.

The ipad runs OS X? News to me.
post #37 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Why wouldn't a netbook be included in the definition of pc? They are exactly within the definition. 100% the same as any other PC, just smaller and with lesser specs than some others.

Why would they? Why wouldn't they? We could debate the semantics until hell freezes over and still not have decided anything. But, it seems:

Quote:
Intel CEO Paul Otellini said during his companys recent earnings call that tablet numbers are relatively small in the grand scheme of the ship rate of the PC, notebook, netbook businesses, according to a transcript of Intels earnings call on Seeking Alpha. AMD CEO Dirk Meyer said the chipmaker is not ready to invest R&D spending on tablets, because the market size doesnt warrant it yet, according to CNET.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1549...?lsrc=rss_main

There you go, every device is in a category by itself. I suggest breaking out black netbooks from gray netbooks, since they must certainly appeal to different market segments.
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post #38 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Right now, I wouldn't define an iPad as a PC when an iTunes sync is required.

I think that right there is the key factor. As long as I need a PC to set the thing up and manage it's content, it's not a PC. Right now the iPad is primarily a client device, a consumer of content (whether it be photos, documents, email, web, etc). The Photo application is a prime example. Great for viewing photos, but you can't organize, edit, or tag your photos. You are 100% dependant on your PC to manage your photos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think that will be pretty common sentiment. The iPad is a satellite computer that will allow many to go back to having a desktop as their rooted computer.

I have to wonder if we’ll see a surge in desktop sales in today’s stats.

I doubt it would show in today's stats. I think there will be an effect like this, but it will be a slow trend for at least a year before it's noticable (ie, distinct enough of a trend to be attributable to tablets as opposed to normal activity). It will take time for a significant number of people to be comfortable with the iPad to forgo a computer purchase. And it will depend on how aggressive Apple is with v2. (And this is where I think a smaller version, combined with today's 9.7" model, would accelerate sales even more.)
post #39 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonarKitten View Post

I'll call it a PC when it stops needing a PC to do everything.

I still need a PC to print, to write software, to centrally manage my files, to store the 160 GB of music I have, to play the most current games, to type on comfortably for long periods of time, to draw on, to do 3D modelling and animation, to handle nonlinear video editing ...

(inhale)

... to burn DVDs for the rest of my family, to connect to all those USB-based peripherals that don't have SD cards, to post comments on blogs, to have more than a 1024x768 view of the internet, to have an HID that's more precise than my thumb or fingertip, to read those silly Flash-based e-cards I get ...

... to do with it whatever I want, whether Steve Jobs likes it or not.

Then get a netbook. Problem solved.
post #40 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

The odd thing is that someone will say something like "The iPhone, which is more of a portable computer than just a phone" Then they will turn around and argue that an iPad is not really a computer.




... If Donald is a Duck... and, Pluto is a Dog... then, what is Goofey?

... If a Netbook is a Computer... And an iPad is a big iPod... then, what is an AppleTV?

.
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