Categorizing iPad as PC would make Apple largest in US market - Page 3

A PC isn't really a PC if you can buy it pre-build and don't need to pull out a soldering iron to put it together - otherwise it's just some lame consumer device. Who's with me!?

What you're describing is a hobbyist machine, not what more and more consumers who don't give a damn about upgrading hardware or setting up file/print servers are looking for. The iPad is certainly a Personal Computer - a lot more personal than the machines of the past decades.

I have to agree... Apple was stupid to release the iPad before it had the infrastructure in place to activate it as a stand-alone device. If they'd only waited they would avoided those embarrassing stock shortages and long order lead-times... not to mention those pesky customers waiting in line all over the world to buy the iPad.

It was really stupid to be first-to-market and catch the competition off guard, scrambling to compete -- where they may not be able to get a product to market for years (if ever).

It was really stupid for Apple to define the category and set the bar, high, for all tablets that follow!

It was really stupid of Apple to announce and demonstrate a real product and then release it inseveral months -- rather than wait and show vaporware like RIM, HP, et. al.

There is an earnings call at close of market today (about an hour) -- we should all tune in and see how stupid Apple really is.

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Or whenever Apple releases a major update; but I wasn't talking about the internet or the servers which support it -- I meant that you need a PC at home to be able to update your device. When you can own an iPad without owning anything else, then it's a PC. And saying that, I would say the iPad is really really close.
Cool -- using Bonjour I assume? So limited to having a Mac, PC or Bonjour-capable deivce on your network to print. That's **better**, but not perfect unless non-Apple companies start using Bonjour.
I can also run ucLinux on my microwave -- that doesn't make it a PC. The ability to hack something, to reprogram something, is by its very nature, changing the nature of the device, as any computerized device is defined by its software. So, it then stops being device-xyz and becomes a "PC". An AppleTV, XBox or Commodore 30-in-1 Direct to TV are all examples of NON-PCs, built on the same hardware as a PC, that can, with some effort, be made into PCs. So, for a select few, the iPhone and iPad can both become full PCs; not everyone either has the skill nor desire to jail break their Apple devices.
No worries!
Nope -- I just have the one laptop -- and I spent a small fortune because I wanted both. My laptop is probably more powerful than most people's desktops. This beast has a quad-core i7 (720QM) and Radeon HD 5870, with 8GB of RAM, expandable to 16GB, two 500GB drives, built-in 1920x1080 display with an HDMI connection to a 2048x1152 display. I don't believe in compromising -- I have enough money to get what I need all-in-one. I do own an iPhone though -- but I don't call it my PC either.
But that's not what a PC is defined as -- you don't get to change the definition of the word to suit you. The essence of a PC is that it's general purpose, that you can do with it, whether you want to or not, anything that anyone else could do with whatever we call a "PC". Not all PCs live up to this ideal, and many fall short in one aspect or another -- but that's okay. The term itself is generalized and very fuzzy, but at some point, some thing is no longer a PC, and is a "game console" or a "PVR" or a "microwave oven".

Is the iPad a PC? Can you run LAMP on it without hacking it? Then I would say, that out-of-the-box, no, the iPad is not a PC, it is not inteded to be a PC, it is not marketed as a PC, and by having the AppStore, Apple is preventing it from becoming a PC, and therefore usurping their PC line of products known as Macs. Can you make it a PC -- sure, but taken to it's extreme so is a pile of sand and oil.

That's a pretty selective viewpoint you have there. And it demonstrates nicely so many people's inability to see beyond their own perspectives.

Your first paragraph, as another poster has already pointed out, it patently false. You do not need to use Time Machine to set up your new computer. To provide just one ridiculously obvious example...give grandma a new iMac and she can start using it right away. Give her a copy of MS Office and she can install it without need of another device. But give her an iPad, and if she doesn't have access to another computer to activate it, get content onto it (other than Apple's camera connection kit), and install software, it's nothing but a paper weight.

As for your 2nd paragraph...nice that you picked one tiny part of my comment, tagging of photos, and used that as an example to try an discredit my statement. The point being made was that you can not really manage your photos on an iPad. Tagging, sorting, and editing were just examples of managing photos. And the Photos app was provided as an example of how the iPad is primarily geared towards consuming content and being a client to other computers elsewhere (web servers, mail services, iPhoto on you Mac, etc, etc).

And the statement, "trying to say a chunk of hardware is or is not something based on an installed software application is ridiculous" is also very selective. We are talking about the iPad, and like it or not, that is a combination of hardware and software. And that software is the only software able to make the hardware functional. So you have to consider them together. The iPad hardware is perfectly capable of being a PC, I believe. But not until there is more robust software to make it a more general purpose and independent device than it is today.

Of course, this just my opinion. An iPad is much closer to being a PC than a mainframe terminal is. But I think it has a little ways to go before I'd consider it a personal computer.

ME!!! The ability to "hack" something (even if it's "easy") and make it a "PC" doesn't make it a PC. Examples:

• Original Xbox
• AppleTV
• C64 Direct-to-TV
• WRT45G (et al)

Even that may be too broad.

A Personal Computer (IBM naming aside) was a computer you could actually afford in your home. It was never about it being able to do everything you want - price or user ability was always prohibitive.

If we restrict the definition to 'make the computer do some of what the person wants it to do' I'd say it's closer, and certainly the iPad hits that mark. And damn, my iPad is sooooo much more powerful than my first computer - and I can finally sit in front of the TV on the sofa and use a computer again! (And not using the analog TV as a monitor, thankfully!)

Define "proper" featured OS.

Is it more polite? More chaste? More circumspect? Ivy-league Educated? Come from the right family?

Have beautiful tawny skin, wavy black hair and stunning blue eyes...

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I agree with much of what you write but I would put the change at the introduction of the iPhone and iPod touch. The iPad made the new computer world order more clearly visible. I suppose it is inevitable that each generation will see its successor as not legitimate.

+++ QFT

don't forget the wire-wrap tools and the oscilloscope, the solder sucker and the bust-out box!

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Lol. My first PC was an Atari 600XL which certainly wasn't overly expandable unless you were into hacking and therefore apparently no longer counts as a PC? But... it was a PC.

The cool thing is that Apple is selling consumer-usable machines that you can actually turn on and just use - my Atari (600Xl and later ST) turned on in seconds. For some reason, the 'P' in 'PC' is supposed to mean 'PITA' apparently - I assume because that's what DOS and Windows delivered to the masses for so long. \

It isn't an insult to state that the iPad isn't a PC in the traditional sense. It was never meant to be. In other news, airplanes make crappy cars and cars make crappy trucks.

Does the iPad meet the definition of a computer in the most general sense? Yes, but so does a programmable calculator. Is the iPad what we think of when someone mentions a PC? No. Is that a bad thing? No.

iOS is why they are now selling 2 million/month.

What's funny about his and other posts like his is the glaring fact that Apple has made the first successful tablet after a decade of everyone else repeating the same foolish moves. Now they are all scrambling to copy Apple by using a mobile OS designed for the HW.

all while the criticisms are based on it not being more like all of those same failures.

And Windows appears to have been the downfall of all the tablet computers (including the recent cancelled projects) that came before.

This place is seriously lacking in quality trolling

You knew I would ask... If "not attaching it to another [computer] device to install your OS" is a pre-requisite, Then the MBA is not a PC, and an AppleTV is a PC... No?


HP has announced several "network" printers that support the iPad.


Ha! Just funnin' you but:

That "laptop" really is a "desktop"

Brand/model?

Cost range?

Weight?

Battery time?

AIR, you mentioned non-linear video editing -- what apps? External storage/connection?

How big a wagon do you have to drag that 'round the house?


Seriously, how do you get buy if your single computer (or any major component) fails and needs hospital time?

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I agree 100% -- the desktop metaphor does not translate well to the handheld experience. My life with Windows CE was horrible, and it took a company like Apple to think of a better way, and here we are. But it's simple -- as long as the iPad requires another house-hold computer to perform a function as critical as the oobe and software updates, then it will remain a non-PC.

Maybe in iOS5. We'll see.

BRIEF-Apple posts Q4 results

Oct 18 (Reuters) - Apple <AAPL.O>:
* Reports fourth quarter results
* Auto Alert - Q4 earnings per share $4.64
* Auto Alert - Q4 earnings per share view $4.08 -- Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S
* Auto Alert - Q4 revenue $20.34 billion versus I/B/E/S view $18.9 billion
* Auto Alert - Sees Q1 2011 earnings per share about $4.80
* Auto Alert - Sees Q1 2011 revenue about $23 bln
* Says sold 3.89 mln Macs during the quarter
* Says sold 14.1 mln iphones in the quarter
* Qtrly gross margin was 36.9 percent
* Says sold 9.05 mln ipods during the quarter
* Says also sold 4.19 mln ipads during the quarter
* Q1 earnings per share view $5.07, revenue view $22.40 billion -- Thomson
Reuters I/B/E/S

i always figured a story or thread about this very topic will yield debate over semantics. wish i had some popcorn at the moment

If I can walk into Starbucks and update my iPhone, or get home with my brand new iPad/3G and have it run without ever connecting it to a PC, then that's it.
That's great news! My bad for not keeping up -- been too swamped @ work.
"Desktop replacement" or "luggable" also work. I just hate e-waste by having more computers than I need -- it's a bit of a hassle to haul around, but I feel it's better than duplicating data everywhere I live/work/go. It's an ASUS G73JH, and I think it has about 1.5 hours of battery life if I don't play a game. StarCraft II eats the battery in about 45 minutes. It's only real limitation is no e-SATA or USB3.0 -- but with 1TB, I'm okay, and just do routine backups to the corporate servers.
LOL -- it comes sold with its own backpack. I'd hate to have to lug this around back in College (edit -- not that we even had laptops back then...), but to-and-from the car it's fine
I abuse Best Buy's return policy.

I believe the term you are looking for is "proper" trolling

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AAPL down $19.14

So much for a $20 Billion quarter.

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If an iPad is a PC then wouldn't an iPhone and iPod Touch be a PC also? We are mostly talking about functionality not size, so an iPhone is even a better PC than an iPad because it has more features.

My opinion is the iPad is a very underpowered, specialized personal computer with limited capabilities but at the same time, it is the very best tablet computer ever.

The industry does not call the iPad a PC -- that in-of-itself was the catalyst for this thread. Should they? I believe that's up to Apple.

But Apple doesn't call the iPad (or any iOS device) a "PC" or use either words to define anything about it either. In fact they go out of their way to NOT compare it to a conventional computer and focus entirely on what it DOES.

To be fair, every non IBM-PC Clone ancestor has attempted to define itself in how it's NOT a PC. It was always PCs versus Macs, PCs versus Amiga, PCs versus the world. So it's not necessarily with spite that I say the iPad isn't a PC. It's not worse, nor better, only different; and whether it's categorically the same or not, laptop sales are sliding as a consequence of its success.

But if I stick to my definition of PC, then it DOES just about everything a PC DOES. Or it will when 4.2 is released. I simply don't feel comfortable calling it a PC -- "PC" has so much baggage attached to it and is getting too easily tossed around. Both Apple and the industry as a whole seem to agree with me, so whether or not the iPad qualifies as a PC is rather moot.

Devoid then of any specific category, I still feel that the iPad could benefit from being entirely independent of any other local computer by making iOS updates and the out-of-box-experience part of iOS itself and not part of iTunes and the AppStore. That dependency seems rather artificial and self-serving on Apple's part.

In relation to this article, what was a stupid move for Apple to make?

If the iPad was classified as a potato, it would be the world's most functional spud.

So a thin client is not a full computer, right?
How about computers that use Netboot? All the iMacs in a lab and boot off the network are not "full computers"?
The term "personal computer" can mean different things, depending on what the word "is" means.

2 questions..

iPad compared to all computing devices worldwide?

iOS compared to all other mobile OS's added together?



1 answer

statistically irrelevant.

iOS devices are outselling OS-X devices better than 4:1. Apple NEEDS to make iOS entirely independent of a host computer; it's not a matter of any lexicographical qualification, it's a matter of where the industry is turning. And share value always drops after Apple makes announcements -- not sure why, maybe Apple should stop making announcements.

I thought MS bought out Apple a few years ago?

something you can do production on effectively, nothing major... just an integrated mail and calendar, Office software, file manager etc...

hardware's nice but like most things from iCon, software is awful.

Right. A thin client makes use of technologies like KVM over IP, VNC, Citrix, or RDP, and are in no way a full computer. The "real" PC, in all of these cases, is usually in the server room, or running as a virtual instance within a server. But then there's grey again -- there are "thin" clients with local Linux or Windows CE installs that provide a lot of offload from the server, all the way up to a full Windows 7 install that's using Citrix or SoftGrid for just a couple seldom used apps. It's really not a case of black-or-white, is it?
These, and similar technologies, are not "moving the computer", they're just moving the harddrive for better security and maintainability. In these cases I would say they're clearly "full PCs".
Actually "is" has a clearer and more succinct definition than PC: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/is#English.

It does a hell of a lot more than my old Apple II GS does. Are you saying that the Apple II GS is not a
"personal computer"?

That's more like it!

What an interesting observation!

I suspect that there is little "real" necessity to connect an iPad to a computer to "set it up"!

Likely, it was easier for Apple to use a proven mechanism already in place -- the iTunes/iPhone connection.

It gave Apple one less thing (downside risk) to deal with in the introduction of a high-volume new product (Remember the MobileMe fiasco, when they tried to do too many things at the same time).

Certainly, they can ship an iPad with everything already installed -- then it can wake up and look for WiFi.

-- If WiFi - assist user with setup and they're good to go.
-- No Wifi - tell the user how to get apps and updates (go some place with WiFi or a computer).

Once the iPad user has access to the cloud he can update the OS and apps as necessary as well as backup.

I suspect that a lot of this will be done through MobileMe and the new Data Center.

In fact, the rumored new MBAs might be just the ticket for a manageable test case of OTA setup, install, update and (later backup). This would involve hundreds of concurrent users rather than hundreds of thousands.

We'll see!

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New iOS device profit compared to new non-iOS device profit worldwide?

Quite relevant,

What have you done for me today?

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I can do all that to the extent I need to, and much, much more on my "improper pc" iPad running an "improper OS" iOS.

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yes, he will get an extra dollar this year.

The point isn't so much if the iPad should or shouldn't be classified as a PC (it shouldn't because it's not a PC. It's really that simple) it's that these measures of traditional PC sales are becoming less and less relevant as we move toward more mobile computing and other devices reach the market that perform functions of a traditional PC.