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Apple's Steve Jobs slams Google, RIM, and rival tablet makers on conference call - Page 5

post #161 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I'm sorry but that appearance and the digs at competitors just smacked of desperation. Especially when he was purposefully deceptive (comparing iOS device stats with Android phone stats) or speaking for others when he had no clue what he was talking about (like his comments which were outright refuted by Tweetdeck).

I don't get the point of this kind of behaviour. Be happy with your company's accomplishments. They are phenomenal after all. Brag about them and move on. For however much Steve Jobs is a brilliant chap, crap like this just makes him look desperate and worried about the competition.

Had I only read the live blogs or transcript, I mostly would have agreed with you.

After listening to the call, I came away with quite a different impression (as I detailed in a prior post).

Steve took the opportunity of having the investment community press gathered (via phone) to define Apples goals and positions. Some of these positions are, even now, being attacked and misrepresented by others.

Steve took the opportunity to set the record straight. Steve would have been remiss in his duties as Apple CEO had he not done so.

I (and many others) do not feel comparing iOS stats to Android stats is deceptive. Steve was presenting his case in a way that highlights Apple accomplishments -- one of the purposes of the earnings call.

As to the twitter deck remarks, Steve said:

Quote:
"Twitter client, TwitterDeck, recently launched their app for Android. They Reported that they had to contend with more than a hundred different versions of Android (software) on 244 different handsets. The multiple hardware and software iterations presents developers with a daunting challenge. Many Android apps work only on selected Android handsets running selected Android versions. [And this is for the hand] This is for handsets that have been shipped less than 12 months ago. Compare this with iPhone where there are two versions of the software -- the current and the most recent predecessor to test against."

The response as quoted from this article:

Quote:
Iain Dodsworth, CEO of TweetDeck, quickly responded to Jobs' comments via Twitter, and said he believes Android fragmentation is actually a "small" issue.

"Did we at any point say it was a nightmare developing on Android?" Dodsworth wrote on his Twitter account. "Err nope, no we didn't. It wasn't."

He later followed up: "WE only have 2 guys developing on Android TweetDeck so that shows how small an issue fragmentation is."

The TweetDeck CEO did not refute Jobs contentions of fragmentation (the number of handsets and the number of Android versions)-- "said he believes Android fragmentation is actually a "small" issue.".

He went on to say it wasn't a nightmare. Steve never said it was a nightmare, he said it was daunting.

He also said: "WE only have 2 guys developing on Android TweetDeck so that shows how small an issue fragmentation is."

He didn't say how many "guys" (or their expertise) were working on iOS versions.


Now, This is a large developer -- 16 developers including the CEO, developing for Mac, PC, Linux, OS X, iOS and Android.

Likely, they are provided easy (free) access to multiple handsets and associated Android OS versions by the OEMs


For a small developer of 1-3 people, iterative testing of hundreds of versions of Android on 244 different (current) handsets is daunting from a manpower perspective.

The small developer, likely needs to purchase the handsets, and 244 would be daunting from a financial perspective.


Finally, TweetDeck's currently featured product is Android TweetDeck -- I would expect the CEO to:

"Ac-cen-tuate the Positive, E-lim-inate the Negative"... and "Don't mess with mister in-between".

With apologies to Johnny Mercer.


http://www.tweetdeck.com/

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post #162 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And just because the App Store gives me a central location to purchase apps doesn't mean that the App Store is obliged to do all my research for me and magically guide me to the that particular app that best suits my needs.

I just bought Trainyard for my iPhone. I came across a post on LinkedIn from a friend and followed the link. It guided me to the TY site which showed me a puzzle he solved. There the AppStore link was provided. I now post some of my results on FB. I come across such appstore links everywhere.
post #163 of 181
@Dick

I submit that the numbers were indeed deceptive. Even setting aside the fact that Android's numbers were basically only phones and iOS includes three families of devices, the fact that he used very outdated numbers for Android (the 200 000 figure was provided by Schmidt in early August...and given Android's trajectory we can be fairly sure it's grown substantially since then) and then lied about the date (last week instead of two months ago) while citing current numbers for iOS is indeed intentionally deceptive.

I am hoping that was merely some oversight by a note generating weanie who slipped Jobs the wrong numbers and the wrong dates and not an intentional effort on Jobs' part to be deceptive.

As for the Tweetdeck incident, regardless of what Jobs said, I think we can agree that he fell flat when the CEO of the subject company doesn't agree with his contentions. At the very minimum it's boneheaded to try and speak for another company when the CEO doesn't agree with what you're going to say.

This audience might not agree with it, but to a layperson, that whole rant sounded rather defensive to me....which is all the more bizarre when it comes as Apple is presenting record numbers. Why not just point at the charts and say, "$20 billion. Any questions?" What's the necessity in going out of your way to talk down RIM or Android? That just smacks of insecurity and desperation.
post #164 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

Bitter much? Your feelings hurt that Apple is kicking the crap out of Samsung and LG? I'm a Korean-American, by the way.

Lets wait until the two Korean giants have products out the market before we start bashing.

Personally, I think this is Job's way of preempting the market in favor of schewing the anaylysts/investors in Apple's favor.

If Jobs is wrong, it could back fire on him pretty badly.

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post #165 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by cykz View Post

I just bought Trainyard for my iPhone. I came across a post on LinkedIn from a friend and followed the link. It guided me to the TY site which showed me a puzzle he solved. There the AppStore link was provided. I now post some of my results on FB. I come across such appstore links everywhere.

Exactly.
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post #166 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

Steve, you're running the second largest company in the world, you really don't need to bitch like this.

I don't think he is bitching. He is steering the press to change the conversation to what he wants it to be. Very savvy in my opinion.

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post #167 of 181
The big difference between Apple and its rivals in this case is that Apple lets Steve say what's on his mind, and it stands as what Apple thinks.

Adobe and Google tend to speak through intermediaries, bloggers, evangelists and PR sycophants. Apple is just blunter, is all, because so much of the company's personality comes down to what Jobs thinks an what Jobs wants.

However, anyone imagining that that somehow means that these other companies don't take potshots or run down the competition isn't paying attention.
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post #168 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

@Dick

As for the Tweetdeck incident, regardless of what Jobs said, I think we can agree that he fell flat when the CEO of the subject company doesn't agree with his contentions. At the very minimum it's boneheaded to try and speak for another company when the CEO doesn't agree with what you're going to say.

I think Dick correctly pointed out the flaws in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

This audience might not agree with it, but to a layperson, that whole rant sounded rather defensive to me....which is all the more bizarre when it comes as Apple is presenting record numbers. Why not just point at the charts and say, "$20 billion. Any questions?" What's the necessity in going out of your way to talk down RIM or Android? That just smacks of insecurity and desperation.

I totally disagree. It is very important that Apple steer the conversation into a direction that puts them in the best light. Their (Apple's) products back up their talk. Nobody can deny the iPhone is if not the superior product on the market, it is one of the best. So of course Steve is going to protect the buzz about his brand, when he feels it is being misrepresented.

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post #169 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


The big difference between Apple and its rivals in this case is that Apple lets Steve say what's on his mind, and it stands as what Apple thinks.

Adobe and Google tend to speak through intermediaries, bloggers, evangelists and PR sycophants. Apple is just blunter, is all, because so much of the company's personality comes down to what Jobs thinks an what Jobs wants.

However, anyone imagining that that somehow means that these other companies don't take potshots or run down the competition isn't paying attention.

Exactly!

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post #170 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

@Dick

I submit that the numbers were indeed deceptive. Even setting aside the fact that Android's numbers were basically only phones and iOS includes three families of devices, the fact that he used very outdated numbers for Android (the 200 000 figure was provided by Schmidt in early August...and given Android's trajectory we can be fairly sure it's grown substantially since then) and then lied about the date (last week instead of two months ago) while citing current numbers for iOS is indeed intentionally deceptive.

I am hoping that was merely some oversight by a note generating weanie who slipped Jobs the wrong numbers and the wrong dates and not an intentional effort on Jobs' part to be deceptive.

As for the Tweetdeck incident, regardless of what Jobs said, I think we can agree that he fell flat when the CEO of the subject company doesn't agree with his contentions. At the very minimum it's boneheaded to try and speak for another company when the CEO doesn't agree with what you're going to say.

This audience might not agree with it, but to a layperson, that whole rant sounded rather defensive to me....which is all the more bizarre when it comes as Apple is presenting record numbers. Why not just point at the charts and say, "$20 billion. Any questions?" What's the necessity in going out of your way to talk down RIM or Android? That just smacks of insecurity and desperation.

Addressing your points in order:

The 200,000 number was the last I heard -- Is there a later one?

Even though this is Mid-October, The period of time under discussion is July-September -- so it makes sense to use the latest published numbers within that period.

I don't concede that the Android trajectory, necessarily, would have grown -- it may have even declined. Remember that growth spurt occurred at the end of the iPhone 3GS cycle and many buyers were waiting for the iPhone 4. Also, during that spurt, several very well received Android Phones were introduced. I believe it would be just as unfair to compare the first quarter of iPhone 4 "activations" vs Android activations where the only phones had been around for a while.

I posted in another thread, that since we don't know what comprises an "activation", it is a rather meaningless comparison. But, It's the only one we have.

You said he lied about the date. I've listened to the call 3 times. I did not hear anything that sounded like a lie -- or even stretching the truth.

Can you be specific and cite the point mm:ss in the call where he lied?

That is a serious accusation, and if proven true, has serious ramifications.

Again, I think the dates were valid for the quarter, and the numbers were the best that could verified.

As for the TweetDeck bit;:

What Jobs stated was borne out by what is posted on the TweetDeck Blog. TweetDeck published the raw information and Jobs just added it up and stated it would be daunting to developers. That's true!

TweetDeck's CEO did not refute what Jobs said-- he just said wasn't a major issue (for them). I believe, if the TweetDeck CEO had been aware of the blog and some posts about the varying quality of their app (iOS and Android)-- he may well have stated his points differently.

Apple has, recently, been beaten up pretty badly by the competition, blogs and the press, Jobs took the occasion of the assembled (on the phone) financial press to set the record straight.

As CEO, he has a responsibility to his company and shareholders to do so.

I don't think he came across as talking down RIM or Google. These are competitors who make certain claims in their own favor.

It is Jobs responsibility, as CEO to point out where these statements are false, misleading or, yes, disingenuous. Actually, I thought Jobs did this rather graciously. He could easily have pointed out the bomb of recent RIM phones, their joke of a "tablet" announcement. Similarly, he could have done the same thing with the various Android phone failures and tablet vaporware.

Apple has a smart phone, an mp3 player/PDA/PGP (the touch) and a tablet in the market place being sold.

The competition and, to some extent, the press have been discussing the merits of offerings that do not, now, exist (and may never exist). I believe they do this to cause the customer to delay/defer purchase of Apple products until they have a product to compete.

Jobs was correct to point out that:
-- these products do not exist
-- they may never exist
-- if the do get released, likely, the will cost more than the iPad
-- based on Apple's research, they will deliver an inferior, even unacceptable, tablet experience.

Jobs was protecting Apple's flanks -- he has a duty to do so!


If you can prove that Jobs lied or deliberately mislead the financial community, show us where.

There are a lot of SEC regulators and class-action attorneys that would kill for this information

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post #171 of 181
It seems obvious that the most people bitching here about Jobs are the same individuals that bitch just about everything Apple/Jobs says, does or introduces.

Bottom line. You don't become one of the largest, most innovative, successful or respected company in the world, or lead by one of the most declared Man of the Year or Man of the Decade for nothing. Unlike much of the competition that has photocopied their way to the top.
post #172 of 181
So where are the new android figures?
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post #173 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Most people, likely, are not interested... but it is a nice story:

Ken Silverman's fiancee was an optician and so knew people in the "industry". Woz, through Ken and his fiancee arranged to have these made. I believe the original run was 3 pairs -- they were incredibly difficult to make and very expensive. While optically correct, they were hardly functioning sunglasses. They were fragile and it was very distracting to look at the world through multi-color-striped lenses. They were a more of a work of art.

Woz may have had additional pairs made in later runs.


Ken's fiancee was in her late 30's, but had terminal cancer and they married so Ken could raise her two young children.

That, last, was one of the most inspiring memories of Silicon Valley in the early 1980s.

.

Thanks for that memorable story. Very moving.
post #174 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

So where are the new android figures?

Companies aren't quiet unless they are in a stock offering quiet period or news ain't so great.

The numbers probably don't suck, they may just not be as rosy as Schmidt has led folks to believe.
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post #175 of 181
Dick, why are you even going out of your way to answer that troll?

Anyone who uses the term "desperate" and "Apple" or "Steve Jobs" in the same sentence must be some sort of ignoramus.
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post #176 of 181
+1 what Dick Applebaum is saying
post #177 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Companies aren't quiet unless they are in a stock offering quiet period or news ain't so great.

The numbers probably don't suck, they may just not be as rosy as Schmidt has led folks to believe.

I would imagine by today Google would be out with "Android is winnar 300,000 activation a day w00t!" but.... <silence> instead?
post #178 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I'm sorry but that appearance and the digs at competitors just smacked of desperation. Especially when he was purposefully deceptive (comparing iOS device stats with Android phone stats) or speaking for others when he had no clue what he was talking about (like his comments which were outright refuted by Tweetdeck).

I don't get the point of this kind of behaviour. Be happy with your company's accomplishments. They are phenomenal after all. Brag about them and move on. For however much Steve Jobs is a brilliant chap, crap like this just makes him look desperate and worried about the competition.

I believe Dick dealt with the issue of purposeful deception, however does this look of desperation equally apply to Google executives at their Android developers conference earlier this year?
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post #179 of 181
As CEO, Steve's job is to communicate the Apple message. To consumers and to shareholders.

He does it with some passion, he does it in language people understand.
He is direct. So direct that he might regret one or two things that were said in haste.

It's worth comparing the Jobs style with some communication from the co-CEO of RIM; Jim Balsillie.

Quote:
"There's tremendous turbulence in the ecosystem, of course, in mobility. And that's sort of an obvious thing, but also there's tremendous architectural contention at play. And so I'm going to really frame our mobile architectural distinction. We've taken two fundamentally different approaches in their causalness. It's a causal difference, not just nuance. It's not just a causal direction that I'm going to really articulate hereand feel free to go as deep as you wantit's really as fundamental as causalness."

Does anyone know what he's going on about?

C.
post #180 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

As CEO, Steve's job is to communicate the Apple message. To consumers and to shareholders.

He does it with some passion, he does it in language people understand.
He is direct. So direct that he might regret one or two things that were said in haste.

It's worth comparing the Jobs style with some communication from the co-CEO of RIM; Jim Balsillie.



Does anyone know what he's going on about?

C.

RIM is running out of steam. Hey that rhymes!
post #181 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I would imagine by today Google would be out with "Android is winnar 300,000 activation a day w00t!" but.... <silence> instead?

zactly!
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