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Steve Jobs squashes rumors of smaller, 7-inch iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 67
I love to see how vindicated I am on this issue, and hearing Steve's words I feel humbled that they reflect pretty much verbatim what I 've been saying in these forums, since the 7" ipad rumour came out.

p.s. let me not hear about comparisons of Steve with Obama, a visionary with guts on one hand, and a puppet for the plutocracy of the U.S. who never did anything in his life than suck up to power, who never had a proper job in his life. If W. was an idiot, and a puppet too, Obama is worse because he gives the pretence of intelligence, where there's none there in.
post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software," Jobs said on Monday's quarterly earnings conference call.*"As a software driven company we think about the software strategies first."

too small??? iPod Touch? Yes, I know some Apps are ONLY for the iPad, but MUCH more often than not are Apps compatible to both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We know developers aren't going to deal well with these different sizes and they have to change their software every time the screen size changes," he added. "When we make decisions on 7-inch tablets it's not about cost, it's about the value of the product when you factor in the software."

Retina Display is roughly similar resolution to iPad, scale that between the iPad and the Touch and viola! It's not about scaling the iOS, it's about scaling the screen. Why is it that the iPad has such a lesser resolution (ppi-wise) from the iPhone? Economy of scale first off, but also for viewing video that doesn't have to be re-scaled to fit multiple resolution displays, amongst other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Hm, how can we make this cheaper? *Well let's put a smaller screen, slower processor, less memory, and you just assume the software will somehow come alive on this product but it won't," Jobs quipped. "Developers have taken advantage of faster processors and bigger screens to make better apps for customers."*

Uhmmm....iPod Touch? iPhone? It's comments like these that makes me skeptical to SJ's comments. The Touch and the Phone are now just as fast as the iPad and run 95% of all Apps, and typing is definitely faster on the smaller screens. I just don't get how everyone can't see right through this. iPhone and Touch are both cheaper than iPad and just as fast. There is a gap between the Touch and the iPad that could be filled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Those reports suggested that the current iPad is too heavy for users, and that a smaller form factor and lighter weight would be more ideal for reading.

Which I would agree heavily with this, and that it can't access your computer either.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Uhmmm....iPod Touch? iPhone? It's comments like these that makes me skeptical to SJ's comments. The Touch and the Phone are now just as fast as the iPad and run 95% of all Apps, and typing is definitely faster on the smaller screens. I just don't get how everyone can't see right through this. iPhone and Touch are both cheaper than iPad and just as fast. There is a gap between the Touch and the iPad that could be filled.

Yes, I agree with you
- IIRC, the A4 in the iPhone 4 actually has 2x the DRAM of the A4 in the iPad
- so, the argument about smaller devices having less computing power, thought true in the general sense, is a bogus argument when refering to the iPad & smaller devices.

But SJ always likes producing the 'definitive' product, and letting others produce multiple options for the customer.
- so, we still only have one iPhone.
(but several MacBooks, MacBook Pros, iMacs)

Of course, it could just be a smokescreen, for when it's finally ready in Q2 2011, and Boom! 7" iPad....
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

p.s. let me not hear about comparisons of Steve with Obama, a visionary with guts on one hand, and a puppet for the plutocracy of the U.S. who never did anything in his life than suck up to power, who never had a proper job in his life. If W. was an idiot, and a puppet too, Obama is worse because he gives the pretence of intelligence, where there's none there in.

Honestly how do you even think stuff like this. Obama is clearly intelligent. If you disagree with him, fine, do so by all means just please stop deluding yourself. Oh and being elected to the Senate and then President is doing something with your life and they are also proper jobs. I think most would agree about that.
post #45 of 67
He is totally right. The same way that people never will want to watch video on their iPod, that people don't read books so electronic books don't matter, that people don't care about the internet on their TV, that people want to buy not rent movies.

Oh and maybe a 7" iPad may be too small but it might make a really nice iPod touch - now that makes perfect sense.
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

um... NO-ONE can be ALWAYS right, honest, etc.

Steve Jobs is probably right 95%+ of the time, but deffinetly not always, i do agree that 7' is way to small, but, the current ipad is larger (diagonally) than some netbooks... it is a great product though.

i personally would like on that is slightly smaller, like 8.5 inches or something like that.

but Steve Jobs is right when it comes to mass consumer products, over 99% if the time, i must remember (and a lot of other people should remember to) that: i am not the majority

He's not about being right. Half the time Job's has got his salesman/politician's hat on and is spinning things for apple.

He's right about 7" tablets are not 70% size. They're half the size. Big difference. He's also 'right' that you can't just take the Software and squish it down. Your hands then appear clumsy, the data too small ... bad experience. But Software can be written to this size, if it is engineered properly to do so.

One of SJ's most telling comments was about carrying developers (and same goes for content providers imo) not mucking them around for the sake of making a device a bit smaller and cheaper to compete.

At the moment SJ wants them focusing on getting stuff to iPad 10" size It's working. Apple succeeding in creating stuff at that size - "magazine" + enterprise stuff that is unlikely to have taken off on a 7".

So sadly (for I would have bought one) I'm not expecting a 7" iPad soon. But I'm still expecting one longer term.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

However, a larger iPad is not ruled out.

...and if it ran the full OSX, I can get rid of my MBP and iPad for good
post #48 of 67
I would have loved a 7 inch factor, even if the price did not change. Plus second gen would have been a perfect time to revise the product or add to the family without alienating developers, as long as after that the product screens were somewhat solidified.

I dunno a 7 inch is a bit easier to hold with one hand, and it's kinda hard for me to do that with iPad. Maybe my hands are too small, but probably a lot of other people's as well
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post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

Honestly how do you even think stuff like this. Obama is clearly intelligent. If you disagree with him, fine, do so by all means just please stop deluding yourself. Oh and being elected to the Senate and then President is doing something with your life and they are also proper jobs. I think most would agree about that.

Well, maybe someday you will understand.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai1999 View Post

Yes, I agree with you
- IIRC, the A4 in the iPhone 4 actually has 2x the DRAM of the A4 in the iPad
- so, the argument about smaller devices having less computing power, thought true in the general sense, is a bogus argument when refering to the iPad & smaller devices.

But SJ always likes producing the 'definitive' product, and letting others produce multiple options for the customer.
- so, we still only have one iPhone.
(but several MacBooks, MacBook Pros, iMacs)

Of course, it could just be a smokescreen, for when it's finally ready in Q2 2011, and Boom! 7" iPad....

And several iPod variations...I'm kind of surprised that with the last release of the iPod Nano, they didn't just pull the Shuffle of the production line. But price-points probably dictated that decision.

Yeah, I agree with you there as well. I wasn't trying to argue that Apple may/will put out a 7" version, just that SJ's talking points are pretty bogus. SJ has a history smoke-screening.
post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Uhmmm....iPod Touch? iPhone? It's comments like these that makes me skeptical to SJ's comments. The Touch and the Phone are now just as fast as the iPad and run 95% of all Apps, and typing is definitely faster on the smaller screens. I just don't get how everyone can't see right through this. iPhone and Touch are both cheaper than iPad and just as fast. There is a gap between the Touch and the iPad that could be filled.

Your AI quote also cut off that it was all Steve sounding out as if he was a hardware focused company trying to approach the problem. That IS how most other companies approach the problem. The iPod Touch is just as fast as the iPhone 4 yes, but costs a lot less. How did they manage that? Little things like a WAY inferior camera help them reduce the price.

I'm glad you type faster on the iPhone. Some people do well with both thumbs, some people don't, but are able to adjust well to the screen keyboard of the iPad. Economies of scale probably drive the price down on the iPod Touch and iPhone. They can make many more screens from a single piece of glass than they can create screens for the iPad. The iPad also needs more battery space to drive the larger screen. There are plenty of reasons the price is higher.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed.

Disagree.

I was actually waiting for a 7".

The iPad is faster/more productive if it's set on a desk, etc. If you're holding it, especially typing, I find it clumsy ... and I repeat what I've heard many times in what people want a tablet for, the weight and size is clumsier for reading books. People want convergience, not more devices to carry.

Maybe the rumour of a slightly larger iPhone is my next hope?


I'll have to wait and see if the smaller MacBook Air is a better mobile solution (If the (more) rumours are true)
post #53 of 67
His having made this grandiose claim (which rings familiar), I shall be curious as to wheter AAPL ever comes out with a smaller iPad-type device (bowing to market pressure). At which point I shall giggle.

(Cheaper netbook? Hehehe: close call, not exactly, but dangerously close.)
post #54 of 67
I don't follow SJ's logic. How many app's are there for the 3.5" iPod/iPhone?

I don't want a cheaper iPad just a smaller one. I use my iPad as a 'sofa computer' for surfing the web, playing games and reading books in the living room. It would be nice to also have something smaller/lighter to slip into my coat pocket when I'm travelling. The iPhone works well but I find the screen that bit too small for some things.

Will be interesting to see how well the 7" tablets from Samsung, etc sell.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai1999 View Post

Yes, I agree with you
- IIRC, the A4 in the iPhone 4 actually has 2x the DRAM of the A4 in the iPad
- so, the argument about smaller devices having less computing power, thought true in the general sense, is a bogus argument when refering to the iPad & smaller devices.

But SJ always likes producing the 'definitive' product, and letting others produce multiple options for the customer.
- so, we still only have one iPhone.
(but several MacBooks, MacBook Pros, iMacs)

Of course, it could just be a smokescreen, for when it's finally ready in Q2 2011, and Boom! 7" iPad....


Because he would by then found a better way of making the 7 incher, which nullified all his previous comments. He would probably say, "there were plenty of attempt at a 7" tablet, they didn't work. We made it work better."
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I don't follow SJ's logic. How many app's are there for the 3.5" iPod/iPhone?


I think his logic is pretty simple. His assertion is that a 7" iPad is limited to apps that are as complex as a 3.5 iPod/Phone can handle, and cannot give a proper user experience for more complex apps that are designed exclusively for a 10" iPad. So what is the point of a 7" model? You might as well just have an iPhone. Sure, some people would like the exact same experience, just on a bigger screen, but Jobs thinks that number is pretty small.
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post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

No the iPad is not too big. It is the perfect size for many. Of course you can't stuff it into your pocket.

The current iPad is incredibly popular and a great size for a lot of people. I've never suggested it be discontinued because clearly there are a lot of people buying it.

I agree with SJ that 7" is the wrong size for a tablet. It's too small for something that is primarily used on a lap or table.

But IMO the iPhone is too small to satisfy all the demands for a handheld device.

I believe there is a huge untapped market for an information appliance that offers usability and readability improvements over the iPhone while retaining full portability.

The iNotePad would look like an iPod touch with a 6" screen. By using minimalist bezels it would fit into the palm of one hand and slide into many (not all) pockets.

Apple can decide not to make a device to satisfy that market. That's their choice. I've decided never to buy another iOS device until they do. Looks like my wife is going to get a new MacBook sooner than she thought.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I think his logic is pretty simple. His assertion is that a 7" iPad is limited to apps that are as complex as a 3.5 iPod/Phone can handle, and cannot give a proper user experience for more complex apps that are designed exclusively for a 10" iPad. So what is the point of a 7" model? You might as well just have an iPhone. Sure, some people would like the exact same experience, just on a bigger screen, but Jobs thinks that number is pretty small.

His assertion is wrong. A 6" screen is plenty big to provide a richer user experience than the iPhone offers.

I remain convinced that Apple knows there's a huge untapped market out there, but in typical Apple style they are moving slowly and want to establish themselves in the full size tablet market before tackling the note pad market.

Until then my money is staying in my pocket.
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


p.s. let me not hear about comparisons of Steve with Obama, a visionary with guts on one hand, and a puppet for the plutocracy of the U.S. who never did anything in his life than suck up to power, who never had a proper job in his life. If W. was an idiot, and a puppet too, Obama is worse because he gives the pretence of intelligence, where there's none there in.

sick effort in trying to derail this thread brah \
post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

Apple will not make a 7" iPad

until a 300+ DPI 7" retina display is available for the new 7" Apple iPad!

The screen already exists in lab form.

However, Jobs said a high resolution screen will NOT be the way to go as you would have to "sand your own fingers".


Personally, I wont be too surprised once the 7" market starts gaining ground and Jobs starts to eat his own words.

He says this market will be DOA, well lets see about that.

Samsung, for example, has done its own extensive market research on what people want. Remember, they have been in the mobile phone/ mobile electronics business longer than Apple has.


Another point is the 7" market is for on-the-go folks (business people) with active life styles.

The 10" group is for couch-potato, cuddle up on the couch/bed types.

Therefore, these two devices serves two distinct markets.

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post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

His assertion is wrong. A 6" screen is plenty big to provide a richer user experience than the iPhone offers.

I remain convinced that Apple knows there's a huge untapped market out there, but in typical Apple style they are moving slowly and want to establish themselves in the full size tablet market before tackling the note pad market.

Until then my money is staying in my pocket.

"Plenty" is pretty open to opinion. My guess is that Apple is aware that a somewhat larger screen can afford a somewhat less cramped experience, but that the tradeoffs don't make sense until you get to a screen size that can handle "real" apps.

For instance, Barebones has just announced an iPad companion version of Yojimbo, its free-form info data base.

Here's a screenshot:



Imagine trying to shoehorn all that into half the space. Yes, you could redesign to that particular size, but why? The iPad is sized to be ultra portable while being big enough to use as a laptop replacement (yes I know there are OS and ergonomic issues still, but they're not due to insufficient screen space). The iPhone is sized to be pocketable. Between those two you get the worst of both worlds, IMO.

I think people got so pleased with themselves for chanting "It's just a big iPod Touch" that they started to actually believe that the iPad just basically scales up Touch UI elements and apps, and if that were the case the argument for a 7" device might make some sense. What works on a Touch works easier on 7", right?

But of course the iPad isn't that, as the Yojimbo page should make clear. Devs are targeting the iPad for what it can do and how it can do it. A 7" device is an entirely different thing, obliging entirely different UI and functionality decisions. You basically get the choice of remaking your pocketable apps but bigger, or trying to shoehorn iPad sized apps into the limited screen space by shearing off bits.

That's what he's talking about, and the fact that Touch sized apps work fine on the Touch has absolutely no bearing on Jobs' observations regarding the usability of a 7" tablet,. He is clearly referencing the kind of utility achievable on a near 10" screen while making a clear demarcation between that and phone sized functionality.
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post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkscreennames View Post

sick effort in trying to derail this thread brah \

yeah you got it steinberg, my purpose was to derail this thread, that's my modus operandi here, derailing threads for no reason. Of course you conveniently forget that I wasn't the one who made the analogy of said politician to Steve to begin with.
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

His assertion is wrong. A 6" screen is plenty big to provide a richer user experience than the iPhone offers.

I remain convinced that Apple knows there's a huge untapped market out there, but in typical Apple style they are moving slowly and want to establish themselves in the full size tablet market before tackling the note pad market.

Until then my money is staying in my pocket.


That's not the point. a 30" screen will provide a richer user experience than the iphone, but can it fit easily on a phone? No. That's the point.

(and we are not talking here about 6 inches, we are talking about 7".)

Anyone who bothered reading a bit and trying to think their way into the ergonomics and screen sizes of a potential tablet, back when it was just a rumor, knows enough to confidently say that the screen size apple chose (after years of research and thinking about it) is just about right. I would have preferred it a bit larger to tell you the truth. But as is it's a good compromise between size, weight, slimness, battery life, usability, etc. etc.

This size is here to stay. Maybe the iphone will grow in screen size a bit in the future, but the ipad will only get slimmer, more powerful, and have less weight, and hence become more portable. It's slimness factor will make all the difference. Since a 7" device is as pocketable as a 9" one, there's no point in sacrificing as much screen real estate, development for diff. size screens, battery life, etc. etc. just to make another device that's not really pocketable either. As soon as the ipad becomes lighter though, and slimmer it will outweigh whatever potential weight advantages a 7" might have had, and it will be end of story and period then.
post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed.


disagreed
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post #65 of 67
Steve is right. Even though I still think the iPad is too large to carry around in public, Many of the apps wouldn't make sense on a 7 inch screen. When I first got my Kindle 3 I had to adjust to how much smaller the screen was!
post #66 of 67
Steve, is lying. I can say for a fact that I would much prefer a 7 inch Ipad and I would go so far as to say that I'd be willing to pay 600 or so bucks for it on the low end. 7 inches is like the perfect size for my needs. However I do have the 9.7 inch Ipad and I do like it alot. The only thing that would make it better if it was at a little bit more manageable size. 7 inches sounds perfect.
post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I don't follow SJ's logic. How many app's are there for the 3.5" iPod/iPhone?

I don't want a cheaper iPad just a smaller one. I use my iPad as a 'sofa computer' for surfing the web, playing games and reading books in the living room. It would be nice to also have something smaller/lighter to slip into my coat pocket when I'm travelling. The iPhone works well but I find the screen that bit too small for some things.

Will be interesting to see how well the 7" tablets from Samsung, etc sell.

Samsung Galaxy is crap! That's all I am allowed to say on that one.
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