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Google VP, TweetDeck CEO refute comments from Apple's Steve Jobs

post #1 of 219
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After Apple co-founder Steve Jobs made a surprise appearance on his company's quarterly earnings call to make statements about Google's Android mobile platform, executives from Google and TweetDeck took to the Web to rebuff his statements.

During Monday's earnings call, Jobs shared his opinion on the alleged fragmentation of the Android platform, noting that companies like HTC and Motorola install their own proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from stock Android. He also claimed that the application TweetDeck, which he mistakenly misnamed, had challenges with the recent launch of their Android application.

"Twitter client TwitterDeck [sic] recently launched their Android app, and had to contend with 100 different versions of software on 244 different handsets," Jobs said. That's a daunting challenge."

Iain Dodsworth, CEO of TweetDeck, quickly responded to Jobs' comments via Twitter, and said he believes Android fragmentation is actually a "small" issue.

"Did we at any point say it was a nightmare developing on Android?" Dodsworth wrote on his Twitter account. "Err nope, no we didn't. It wasn't."

He later followed up: "WE only have 2 guys developing on Android TweetDeck so that shows how small an issue fragmentation is."

Dodsworth was allegedly joined by Andy Rubin, vice president of engineering at Google and known as the "father" of Android, in responding to Jobs on Twitter. Rubin -- via a new, unverified Twitter account -- apparently took issue with Jobs' opinion on the "open" debate between Apple's iOS, which powers the iPhone and iPad, versus Google's Android.

Jobs argued that Android's fragmentation makes it less open because a variety of applications for Android run only on a few hardware options.

"Many Android apps work only on select handsets, or select Android versions," Jobs said Monday. "This is for handsets that shipped 12 months ago. Compare with iPhone, where there are two versions to test against -- the current and most recent predecessor."

The purported response to Jobs from Rubin, who was formerly an engineer at Apple, was tongue in cheek, with a geeky take on the matter: "the definition of open: 'mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make'"

The rivalry between Google and Apple, two companies that were previously friendly, has continued to grow over the last year and a half. In March, The New York Times reported that Jobs feels Google betrayed Apple by producing smartphones that resemble the iPhone.

"We did not enter the search business. They entered the phone business," Jobs was claimed to have said to Apple employees at a company meeting in January. "Make no mistake, Google wants to kill the iPhone. We won't let them."
post #2 of 219
This industry would be sooo boring without Mr. Jobs
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post #3 of 219
This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....
post #4 of 219
Is there a video of Steve Jobs' commentary?
post #5 of 219
Looks like a few ruffled feathers ....
post #6 of 219
This is what happens when you get up on the soap box... people get to argue your claims.

As mentioned... never a dull moment with Steve.

$20 billion a quarter... hey, I'd give any guy a great deal of latitude with that record.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #7 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....

... or the other guys are making stuff up.

Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #8 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitentosh View Post

Is there a video of Steve Jobs' commentary?

These calls are never video. Telephone only.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #9 of 219
Does it seem like Mr. Jobs as been a little more vocal than usual. Perhaps to a point where his foot is approaching his mouth. What point was he trying to make to his stockholders? I think I'd have just let the $20 billion quarter speak for itself.
post #10 of 219
In all due respect, Tweetdeck does work shitty on my EVO. Great on my iPad though...
iPhone 4 32GB (black), iPod touch 32GB, iPad Wi-Fi + 3G 64GB, iPod classic 80 GB (white) 160GB (black), 2x 5th gen iPod 30GB (black + white), iMac 27", MacBook Pro 17", Time Capsule 1TB, Apple TV
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iPhone 4 32GB (black), iPod touch 32GB, iPad Wi-Fi + 3G 64GB, iPod classic 80 GB (white) 160GB (black), 2x 5th gen iPod 30GB (black + white), iMac 27", MacBook Pro 17", Time Capsule 1TB, Apple TV
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post #11 of 219
Rubin's Tweet had me rolling on the floor.
Talk about a case study in 'not getting it'.
He precisely makes the case as to why 'open' is completely meaningless to 99.9% of users (you know, the ones who actually buy things?).
As to the benefit to developers, what is more important to most? That they can add some obscure functionality, or that they are given a frame work that allows them to actually get paid for their work?

'open' is simply a religious movement (and for Google, a very selective one at that.)
post #12 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGod 2.0 View Post

In all due respect, Tweetdeck does work shitty on my EVO. Great on my iPad though...

I've heard this a number of times. So maybe fragmentation is a problem. Maybe they should try having more developers do the ports if they want equal results.

Just cuz a version exists doesn't make it as quality. THis is the entire distinction between apples app store and all the rest.
32G iPhone 4, 32G iPad 2, late 2009 15" mbp
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32G iPhone 4, 32G iPad 2, late 2009 15" mbp
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post #13 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Does it seem like Mr. Jobs as been a little more vocal than usual. Perhaps to a point where his foot is approaching his mouth. What point was he trying to make to his stockholders? I think I'd have just let the $20 billion quarter speak for itself.

3 times.
1) Steve's missive on Flash. He was dead on, and it put Adobe completely on their asses defending the indefensible.
2) The antenna conference. Again, put the others on the defensive as they suddenly had to defend their own clay feet.
3) Calling the emperor on his clothes by pointing out that 'open' is a ruse, and making the competitors post silly and hypocritical 'rebuttals'.

Best defense is a good offense. Go Steve.
post #14 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....

Yes there is competition but Apple controls ISO while the Android cell phone makers control nothing. And Android is fragmented. Has to be.
The 3rd party handset makers are in it for the hardware sales. They could care less about Android. But as long as Google keeps cranking out cupcakes, and froyos the celly makers can always hold off updating(if ever) their current crop of tech swag in favor of new models. Which of course leads the geeks to rooting their sh**.
post #15 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Rubin's Tweet had me rolling on the floor.
Talk about a case study in 'not getting it'.
He precisely makes the case as to why 'open' is completely meaningless to 99.9% of users (you know, the ones who actually buy things?).
As to the benefit to developers, what is more important to most? That they can add some obscure functionality, or that they are given a frame work that allows them to actually get paid for their work?

'open' is simply a religious movement (and for Google, a very selective one at that.)

Personally I only care about 'open' in terms of the end user. I do wish all all document formats were 'open' ie platform independent and software independent. The last one with caveats, of course. I don't expect Word to open PS files. Thank god email and texting are 'open'.
post #16 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

3 times.
1) Steve's missive on Flash. He was dead on, and it put Adobe completely on their asses defending the indefensible.
2) The antenna conference. Again, put the others on the defensive as they suddenly had to defend their own clay feet.
3) Calling the emperor on his clothes by pointing out that 'open' is a ruse, and making the competitors post silly and hypocritical 'rebuttals'.

Best defense is a good offense. Go Steve.

If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.
post #17 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Does it seem like Mr. Jobs as been a little more vocal than usual. Perhaps to a point where his foot is approaching his mouth. What point was he trying to make to his stockholders? I think I'd have just let the $20 billion quarter speak for itself.

Yeah, he's starting to sound like any other whiny idiot and the reality distortion field doesn't seem to work at all when it's audio only. I listened to his remarks and they just sounded bad to me.

A lot of what he says is technically true, but is so terribly "spun" that it's transparently kind of not true at all. He looks ridiculous saying some of these things when they are obviously very slanted remarks. Does he really expect us to just believe everything he says when it doesn't even make sense?

He sounds more than a bit irrational to me lately.
post #18 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.

Jobs was responding to recent Google activity where Google has publicly declared themselves to be open and Apple to be closed. Google has publicly said that the Apple approach is negative for Apple users.

So Jobs spanked Google and basically said go worry about your own problems because Apple is just fine thank you very much.
post #19 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....

I think the headline is misleading. They responded; did not refute. Tweetdeck didnt say they didn't have 100 versions. They just say its no problem.
post #20 of 219
Ha ha!

Two things I notice:

1. It's a Twitter app - of course you aren't seeing a problem because any Android can run a twitter app. Now make an app where you have to do full screen artwork (which resolution, again?), rely on hardware features, or GPU - see how much fragmentation matters then.

2. It takes two developers to make a Twitter app? It's not an office suite, for goodness sake. Maybe it has some complex features that I'm not aware of.
post #21 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormj View Post

I think the headline is misleading. They responded; did not refute. Tweetdeck didnt say they didn't have 100 versions. They just say its no problem.

They don't have 100 version, they only have one
post #22 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... or the other guys are making stuff up.

Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.

So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.
post #23 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Ha ha!
1. It's a Twitter app - of course you aren't seeing a problem because any Android can run a twitter app. Now make an app where you have to do full screen artwork (which resolution, again?), rely on hardware features, or GPU - see how much fragmentation matters then.

960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?
post #24 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.

An argument like that will come off as more arrogant than backing it up. Imagine if Microsoft, in the face of WinMobile's decline, simply pointed to their quarterly earnings and said "We do know what we're doing". By any measure Microsoft is still a money-printing machine. But they didn't know jack shit about the changing mobile market (and may still not - that remains to be seen.) Pointing to a cartoonish profit chart where the line shoots off the top is not the way to convince people.


As for the phone call transcript, MacWorld has the full text:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1549...ranscript.html
post #25 of 219
Poor Jobs. He seems to be unaware that all those custom ROMs (what real open source is about) are built upon Froyo or Eclair bases. I ran cyanogenmod6 back when I had my EVO and had no issues with any Apple compatibility. Now I'm using the Vibrant Galaxy S...and still have yet to encounter any issues with those same apps.

With that being said there are rare times when ill see an App get update because to improve performance on a specific device. Usually Droid or the X though.

Why hasn't tweetdeck completely abandoned Android? After all it HAS to be so difficult that only 2 guys are working on it, right?

From a gaming point, yeah it is a bit more difficult when you have to account for a lot more which is why gaming for Android will be akin to that on a PC where there is a baseline to even run said game (this issue exists on iOS already with developers either choosing GL 2.0 over 1.1, and those only newer headsets to older more used devices)
post #26 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitentosh View Post

Is there a video of Steve Jobs' commentary?

Don't know if this specific is included but 9to5Mac had a Youtube audio clip... this is a little longer version of the same think found on YouTube... Rant On Steve, Rant On...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxoAF0Jvhqc

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #27 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... or the other guys are making stuff up.

Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.

Indeed.

'"Did we at any point say it was a nightmare developing on Android?" Dodsworth wrote...'

Well, then - did Jobs at any point use the word 'nightmare'? It's not in the transcript.

Lying about the other guy to 'prove' the other guy is lying about you doesn't inspire a whole lot of trust.
post #28 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....

Or just goes to show some developers (especially TweetDeck) has no freaking clue on how fraented Android is. If they only tested their app on all Android handsets they would've realized that their app doesn't work well on all Android handset.
post #29 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

This just shows jobs is making stuff up, obviously getting a little hot under the collar at the competition.....

Except of course everything Jobs said about tweetdeck came from their own very detailed blog post...

http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem

Perhaps their CEO is not in touch with their developers..


For those too lazy to click:

Quote:
October 12, 2010

Android Ecosystem Infoporn Overload

As we bring our initial Android TweetDeck beta period to a close, we wanted to quickly reflect on the Android ecosystem and what might be considered extreme fragmentation. To date we've had 36,427 active beta testers and below you can see the massive variety of phones and Android OS versions everyone is running. We were really shocked to see the number of custom roms, crazy phones and general level of customization/hackalicious nature of Android. From our perspective it's pretty cool to have our app work on such a wide variety of devices and Android OS variations.

The post continues with charts etc.

For the truly lazy, here is what jobs actually said:

Quote:
Twitter client [TweetDeck] recently launched their app for Android. They reported that they had to contend with more than a hundred different versions of Android software on 244 different handsets. The multiple hardware and software iterations present developers with a daunting challenge. Many Android apps work only on selected Android handsets, running selected Android versions. And this is for handsets that have been shipped less than 12 months ago! Compare this with iPhone, where there are two versions of the software, the current and the most recent predecessor, to test against.

So what exactly did he make up? Oh he did not make anything up. You just made up your outrage.
post #30 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Except of course everything Jobs said about tweetdeck came from their own very detailed blog post...

http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem

Perhaps their CEO is not in touch with their developers..

And what says the chart about dificulties on development?
post #31 of 219
I have to say, that the number on complaint on my Android phone is the fact some apps do no work. If you read the reviews most reviews comment on the fact that it either works on this or that version of Android or which hardware platform it may or may not work on.

Any developer who is not prepared to test their code on all versions of software and hardware is going to be into a rude awakening when people just trash the hell out of their apps because it did not work.

As Steve said consumers do not want to be system integrators and figure out what version of what works together. This is going back to the PC nightmare that existed for years and in some sense still exists.
post #32 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

And what says the chart about dificulties on development?

I quoted what they said, the chart shows the fragmentation graphically. Which is all Jobs commented on.
post #33 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

So the TweetDeck CEO is making stuff up about his own software whereas Jobs knows the truth? I understand what Jobs is trying to say about Android fragmentation, but he could have probably used a better example.

Okay... I get it... you've got a bone to pick with Apple and you'd rather believe Tweetdeck. Fine. Whatever.

I just don't get why the guy would go to such lengths to make Steve look bad. He could have just said that there are challenges to all platforms... some more than others, some less... and leave it at that... but his statement goes further than that...
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #34 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Rubin's Tweet had me rolling on the floor.
Talk about a case study in 'not getting it'.
He precisely makes the case as to why 'open' is completely meaningless to 99.9% of users (you know, the ones who actually buy things?).
As to the benefit to developers, what is more important to most? That they can add some obscure functionality, or that they are given a frame work that allows them to actually get paid for their work?

'open' is simply a religious movement (and for Google, a very selective one at that.)

obscure functionality like a built in access point or tethering?
post #35 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.

Except when you have folks demanding comment and you fail to give it. It makes it look like you are hiding something

And seriously, the comments aren't that bad. If you look at what he said and not what the other side tries to put in his mouth.

on Tweetdeck etc. he said that dealing with 100 variations of the Android software is a challenge. Tweetdeck tries to hyperbole his comment as he said it was 'a nightmare'. Which they find that it wasn't an issue at all. But what about the other folks dealing with the variations. perhaps they did and do find it a challenge.

what he said about the whole search and phone thing. totally true. Apple hasn't launched a web search even now. but Google sure is pushing that phone game.

What he said about the iphone 4 antenna is true. The media was the real problem. If there was a major design flaw it wouldn't just be 'failing' in the US.

and so on.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #36 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

And what says the chart about dificulties on development?

The chart speaks for itself, I think, but here's what a developer commented in response to a question regarding the difficulties introduced by fragmentation:

Quote:
Oct 13, 2010
cpabon said...
@Crow74 It's not particularly harder to develop for Android over iPhone (from a programing standpoint). Except when it comes to final QA and testing. Then it can be a nightmare. (a manageable nightmare mind you)

I know of a major company having a multi million dollar project held up because of it. Project managers definitely prefer developing for iPhone over Android. Because there is less to worry about in final QA.
post #37 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

I quoted what they said, the chart shows the fragmentation graphically. Which is all Jobs commented on.

No, Jobs said they had to contend when Tweetdeck programmer doesn't said anything about difficulties or that they had to make anything special to make the app work on any terminal
post #38 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

These calls are never video. Telephone only.

http://www.businessinsider.com/steve...e-rant-2010-10
post #39 of 219
FYI: Andy Rubin is a former VP
of Software engineering at APPLE.
He left Apple, started Android.
Sold Android to Google.
Now is Google's point man
for Android.
post #40 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

And what says the chart about dificulties on development?

Ha Ha if you scroll all the way down near the bottom of that page there is (1) user on a phone named "My Phone Bitch".

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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