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Google VP, TweetDeck CEO refute comments from Apple's Steve Jobs - Page 3

post #81 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Do you choose to believe Steve when he claims that iOS is "NOT CLOSED" because Android is "fragmented"?

Is that being honest? Is that an example of a cogent point?

Jobs never claimed that iOS is 'not closed', he merely said the issue of fragmentation vs. integrated is much more important for most customers. Of course, one can dispute this but there is no need to put words in Jobs mouth he did not say.
post #82 of 219
Android does have a fragmentation issueespecially when compared to iOS. So Steve is dead on.

And as for being open.

Android has so far only been open to the carriers and phone makers doing whatever they please with it. Once again, Steve is right on.
post #83 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Apart from the obvious hardware variety, is there a lot you can do with Android you cannot do with a jail-broken iOS device? I am sure there plain feature differences but who apart from the handset manufacturers is really modifying the Android source code?

There IS a lot you can do with a stock Android device compared to a stock iPhone:
1. Most notably, wifi hotspot.

XDA developers is a site that shows you a lot about what Android can do, modded or not.
post #84 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Android does have a fragmentation issueespecially when compared to iOS. So Steve is dead on.

And as for being open.

Android has so far only been open to the carriers and phone makers doing whatever they please with it. Once again, Steve is right on.

Another sheep being led to the slaughter.
post #85 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

This industry would be sooo boring without Mr. Jobs

It always was and has been, especially when Steve was less visible at NeXT.
post #86 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Armchair quarterbacks... love em.

At least 18 million iOS devices in this quarter (not sure of the exact Touch numbers)... count em... and Steve is just getting started.

Do you really believe that Steve is being complacent.

Oh boy...

Doesn't matter how xMillion many devices were sold... the market is ripe for the picking. There are billions of people with dumb phones that will switch to smart phones eventually. What I'm talking about here is mind share.

There is no room for complacency because Android is not a bump in the night, it's here to stay. I work with nerds and young people on a regular basis. A couple of years ago, the talk (and the money spending) was all about what iPhone they planned to buy... Today these same people only talk about what Android phone they're going to get or switch to. Pooh poohing your competitors might be fun, but it won't get you anywhere. Apple's going to have to step up their game and fix their own problems before throwing jabs at the competition.
post #87 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

When Dell told Apple it should close its doors, sell itself and return the cash to its investors, was that not humility?

When Ballmer predicted openly that iPhone would fail, then claimed that no one would want the iPad, was that intelligence?

When Palms CEO laughed at the iPhone and claimed that computer guys do not know how to do phones, was that politeness?

When Adobe CEO came out and claim that Flash, a proprietary closed Adobe product, is Open, was that honesty?

When Schimdt joins the media to stir the Android is Open fire, was that truthfulness?

I think everyone needs to take a step back and turn on our brains.



Bravo!

Your point is important: Steve is no worse than any of these Bozos!

Steve can be a huge asshole, anytime he wants, because, after all, someone out there is worse!

We need to take a step back and look away from Steve. Look at other people. Forget what a jerk Steve is, and get mad at those other guys!

Currently, Steve is allowed to exhibit zero humility, zero intelligence, zero politeness, zero honesty and zero truthfulness. Why? Because OTHER PEOPLE don't do it! See how that works?
post #88 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

Being a low level geek can someone tell me what that cryptic code means? Thanks.


Basically you make a directory on your filesystem, change to that directory, connect to github repository, sync your local app with the remote version and compile (make) your app.

BTW the lower you go the geekier you get.

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post #89 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Doesn't matter how xMillion many devices were sold... the market is ripe for the picking. There are billions of people with dumb phones that will switch to smart phones eventually. What I'm talking about here is mind share.

There is no room for complacency because Android is not a bump in the night, it's here to stay. I work with nerds and young people on a regular basis. A couple of years ago, the talk (and the money spending) was all about what iPhone they planned to buy... Today these same people only talk about what Android phone they're going to get or switch to. Pooh poohing your competitors might be fun, but it won't get you anywhere. Apple's going to have to step up their game and fix their own problems before throwing jabs at the competition.

You're right... a friend of my next door neighbour's daughter's ex-husband's brother just bought an Android phone instead of an iPhone... Apple's going to hell.
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post #90 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Face it, if your product name is TweetDick, people are going to get it wrong from time to time.

Definition of open: this guy can still access your data, even though he no longer works for Google.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...s-2080464.html

Naw. The definition of "open" is "iOS". From now on, whenever someone says that iOS is not open, they will be wrong, by definition.

That is the power of marketing. iOS is Open. It is the most open thing in the world. It is open in every sense of the word.

iOS is OPEN. don't forget...
post #91 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

And as for being open.

Android has so far only been open to the carriers and phone makers doing whatever they please with it. Once again, Steve is right on.


Yes indeed. So far Android has ONLY been open to the phone makers.

But some would argue that that is NOT being "open", and therefore, Android is NOT OPEN in any sense of the word.

Open is what iOS is. Android is not open. Instead, it is "fragmented".
post #92 of 219

"WE only have 2 guys developing on Android TweetDeck so that shows how small an issue fragmentation is."

Or, maybe, they're not trying too hard at TweetDeck...
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post #93 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Okay... I get it... you've got a bone to pick with Apple and you'd rather believe Tweetdeck. Fine. Whatever.

I just don't get why the guy would go to such lengths to make Steve look bad. He could have just said that there are challenges to all platforms... some more than others, some less... and leave it at that... but his statement goes further than that...

I'm not sure how not whole heartedly supporting Jobs statements automatically means someone has a bone to pick with Apple. It's annoying how everything associated with Apple becomes a polarized us vs. them debate. I think owning MacBook Pros and iDevices shouldn't prevent me from having diverse opinions.

http://twitter.com/iaindodsworth/statuses/27813412620#

In any case, I really don't see how Tweetdeck's CEO goes out of his way to make Steve Jobs look bad. Tweetdeck feels they are being mis-represented by Steve Jobs in a very public way, so this is a serious issue, and they point out that they never said Android development was a nightmare and then go on to say they didn't feel Android development was hard. If your company is being misquoted, I think it's fair to directly clarify things rather than hem and haw around the issue.
post #94 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Apart from the obvious hardware variety, is there a lot you can do with Android you cannot do with a jail-broken iOS device? I am sure there plain feature differences but who apart from the handset manufacturers is really modifying the Android source code?

Yes, that's a very good point, but to answer, open can be good for developers, and unlocked can be good for consumers (not that you'll find many unlocked Android devices either). But my point was not who benefits, but that it just is. Android open, iOS not.

Steve would probably have been better off saying "Android being claimed as 'open' doesn't appear to be a tangible benefit compared to iOS" instead of saying that it's "disingenuous" because it's not disingenuous, it's a fact - Android is open. Just because it's open doesn't mean that it's good, bad or ugly, it's just open.
post #95 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

I'm not sure how not whole heartedly supporting Jobs statements automatically means someone has a bone to pick with Apple. It's annoying how everything associated with Apple becomes a polarized us vs. them debate. I think owning MacBook Pros and iDevices shouldn't prevent me from having diverse opinions.

http://twitter.com/iaindodsworth/statuses/27813412620#

In any case, I really don't see how Tweetdeck's CEO goes out of his way to make Steve Jobs look bad. Tweetdeck feels they are being mis-represented by Steve Jobs in a very public way, so this is a serious issue, and they point out that they never said Android development was a nightmare and then go on to say they didn't feel Android development was hard. If your company is being misquoted, I think it's fair to directly clarify things rather than hem and haw around the issue.

Okay... so you also can't read. Whatever.
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post #96 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You're right... a friend of my next door neighbour's daughter's ex-husband's brother just bought an Android phone instead of an iPhone... Apple's going to hell.

That was such a iPhone-centric response. "Denial ain't a river in Egypt, my friend."
post #97 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

That was such a iPhone-centric response. "Denial ain't a river in Egypt, my friend."

Get back to me in 2 years and we'll see if Apple is bankrupt yet.

Faith in Apple... yeah... why not.

lol... by the way, you're not my friend.
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post #98 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

And this is true because...

If you say a general sentence that supporting lots of different versions (OS and hardware) is a clear challenge, almost everybody will agree. Whether it is 'daunting' can be debated, but most will agree that it can be daunting.
post #99 of 219
I'm truly amazed at the level of blatant "sheeplike" responses here. This is serious business, folks. For what it's worth, Apple's surge to dominance is under attack by Android and Jobs knows it. That's why he made the rare appearance at this type of event to bash Android (as well as Blackberry, which poses little threat).

It's now the war of # of activations, which Google started back in May with 160,000 activations/day, then over 200K/day. Then Jobs countered with a higher number and now again with close to 300K. I'm sure Google will respond in kind as well.

iPhone people take note: as much as you want to deny the stats that show Android is about to overtake iPhone for the foreseeable future (and already has for the past 6 months in sale--the articles are aplenty on that), it really behooves Apple to take action now before they become the next Blackberry.

Let the flames begin!
post #100 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Get back to me in 2 years and we'll see if Apple is bankrupt yet.

Faith in Apple... yeah... why not.

lol... by the way, you're not my friend.

haha. I never said anything about bankrupt, and neither is anyone else. It just won't have the market dominance or power it has now.

And the "my friend" was part of a quote.
post #101 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

He just made it all up out of whole cloth. He didn't even get the name right. he was just spouting bullshit. He had zero actual knowledge about the subject of his statement. He was expressing an unsubstantiated opinion by means of making up "facts" which involve a little bit of truthiness, but which are at their base, bullshit.


Obviously.

Obviously. You. Didn't. Or. Couldn't. Be. Bothered. To. Read.

Wovels post to TweetDecks own blog. I guess the TweetDeck CEO forgot his mobile engineering VP has blog posting privileges too.
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post #102 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

960x480? 480x320? iPhone 3G GPU, iphone 3GS GPU, iPhone 4G GPU? OpenGL ES 1.0 or 2.0?

True... but how many permutations vs 100 x 244 (adding different CPUs, OpenGL and different GPUs).

And how many small developers can afford to buy 244 handsets (and their contracts)... then iteratively test them across 100 Android OS Versions (and OEM Skins) for every app.

That, my friend is daunting!

.
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post #103 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You're right... a friend of my next door neighbour's daughter's ex-husband's brother just bought an Android phone instead of an iPhone... Apple's going to hell.

At my office, there are now more people with Android phones than iPhones. I personally will be sticking with an iPhone, but this is not an obscure issue, it's very real. Apple's not doomed or failing, they just need to watch their backs or they will be surpassed (again).
post #104 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Do you choose to believe Steve when he claims that iOS is "NOT CLOSED" because Android is "fragmented"?

Is that being honest? Is that an example of a cogent point?

Well if he had said that he would be full of shiite, but he didn't, it was only you that said he did. Two independent points, both true cannot be arbitrarily linked together to create some alternate universe of meaning where one supposedly becomes used to create the other.

In summary, you are lying. Making stuff up. Quoting phantasms. Given that the below barely qualifies as drivel.

Quote:
IMO, given all the history, it is not advisable to believe anything Steve says unless and until it is corroborated. He uses words to mean things that few other people realize. So he can claim, for example, that because Android is "fragmented", that means that iOS is indeed "open". Or something like that, if you don't really listen or think.
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post #105 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

No argument.

But that does not justify the CEO of a public company spouting palpable bullshit.

Explain Google's Schmidt. He's made a career of spouting non-palpable bullshit and driving his past projects into the ground.
post #106 of 219
People lie...

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...scaled1000.gif

I mean, seriously. Jobs was right...

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #107 of 219
DEVELOPERS BEHOLD!!! .....the OPEN Android Architecture.


Just make sure your apps will run on this list of every modded ROM and custom UI of Android.


post #108 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

Just make sure your apps will run on this list of every modded ROM and custom UI of Android.

I'm trying to decide between the VanillaEclair 4.0 and the Donut SlimFast v1.0 M003

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post #109 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

That was such a iPhone-centric response. "Denial ain't a river in Egypt, my friend."

denial about what? The unmitigated success of the "flash-less, closed-ecosystem" iPhone? Apparently it's not a big deal to TENS of millions of people. Who gives a hoot if android ships more devices, when most of them are crap? With the exception of the Droid line of verizon phones, most android releases are subpar. EVO 4G is a notable exception. RIM is dead. They are slowly (repeat - slowly) losing enterprise while making up very little ground with consumer. WP7 is DOA, despite being a somewhat novel approach to UI.
post #110 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Steve would probably have been better off saying "Android being claimed as 'open' doesn't appear to be a tangible benefit compared to iOS" instead of saying that it's "disingenuous" because it's not disingenuous, it's a fact - Android is open. Just because it's open doesn't mean that it's good, bad or ugly, it's just open.

When Google is stressing that Android is open, this carries the implicit message that this is a good thing for the consumer in the end. And calling that implicit message as disingenuous is certainly somewhat justified. So, in the end Jobs can exactly be understood as what you suggest.

When Jobs said, 'we think this is a bit disingenuous', the 'this' could refer to 'open' or the fact that Google is stressing open as if it were a major advantage. If we think that Jobs is an arrogant jerk, we will naturally be more inclined to think he is referring to the former (open), but if we try to think what a rational mind could have meant with it, we will probably believe the latter (open not being a major advantage).

A general problem naturally is that in such official company statements (into which we can subsume Jobs words) there will always be a mixture of facts, general wisdoms, and conclusion, conjecture and opinion. We can always not agree with opinions, conjecture and certain conclusions but that does not mean they are lying or making things up, just that the listener or reader has to pay attention to differentiate the statements.
post #111 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

At my office, there are now more people with Android phones than iPhones. I personally will be sticking with an iPhone, but this is not an obscure issue, it's very real. Apple's not doomed or failing, they just need to watch their backs or they will be surpassed (again).

Everyone at my office that bought an Android phone wishes they'd bought an iPhone.
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post #112 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You forget the iPad’s dimensions if we’re talking about a Universal app. All that aside, that is nothing for a developer.

Let’s start with the first thing you mention: Doubling of the resolution on the exact same size display with the exact same aspect ratio. Wow! A developer has to recompile in the newer SDK to allow for iPhone 4 and G4 iPod Touch usage to be ideal (though the old app will work anyway) and they should use the guidelines to make their images and Springboard icon higher res (though the old icon will work anyway).

You sound like Apple should never do a year-over-year upgrade to their HW because it means that after a year developers will have to account for progress. That is what we’re talking about here, progress, not a lateral move by a seemingly infinite number of manufacturers with various display sizes, resolutions, aspect ratios, CPUs, GPUs, RAM, Android versions, etc. that aren’t being delivered with any stable or calculated progress over each other. Don’t believe me? Exhibit A: Dell Streak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Exactly the same occur with Android, you use the guidelines and the application will work on any resolution and device

Quote:
Oct 19, 2010

cpabon said...
The point that some people are missing is that it is not just a matter of supporting Android 2.1 or 2.2 et cetera.
It is 2.1 on Droid vs 2.1 on Incredible (for example). You would think an app written for 2.1 would behave the same on all devices running 2.1 but that is not the reality.

The manufacturer gets to put there own UI touches to the devices. The changes made by these manufactures changes things. You have text that appears correct on one device run off the screen on another. This problem doesn't just effect 1 shop developers it effects large big name projects.

These are real issues that development companies have to consider which is not present when developing for Apple. Take all the Android tablets coming out. Android was not written to support them. Even google says so. So what you get is an os that have been jimmy rigged by the manufactures to support different devices. Since not all of them do it the same it causes problems for someone trying to write software for them.

http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem

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post #113 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Everyone at my office that bought an Android phone wishes they'd bought an iPhone.

Out of the eleven in my office, we have 3 iPhones, 1 Droid and the rest Blackberry, and our IT manager who refuses to own a cell phone, or at least that is what he claims, unless he has one he keeps in his car.

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post #114 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Apple's not doomed or failing, they just need to watch their backs or they will be surpassed (again).

Mobile is a VERY different game than the PC vs Mac wars from 15+ years ago. Back then, enterprise adoption drove the industry. Now, it's consumers in the drivers seat. Apple dominates with consumer innovation, satisfaction, and loyalty. PERIOD. Apple's biggest problem may be a lack of any real competitors. Then again, Apple is not one to sit on their laurels (note the constant improvements / updating to the iPod line - something they already dominate and clearly did not get lazy with).
post #115 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Out of the eleven in my office, we have 3 iPhones, 1 Droid and the rest Blackberry, and our IT manager who refuses to own a cell phone, or at least that is what he claims, unless he has one he keeps in his car.

hah, you have a luddite as an IT manager. Sounds like it's time for a new IT manager.
post #116 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

If a $20 billion quarter doesn't get stockholder's attention, nothing else will. All Steve had to do was come on stage and point to a slide that says $20 billion. Point and say "We do know what we're doing". Specifically calling out competitors just comes across as a bit bush league.

Oh c'mon. Apple gets "called out" all the time these days -- it's expected when you're on top. Why shouldn't Steve/Apple call out the competition once in a while too? It's good competition and I don't mind it. I think it keeps everyone on their toes and keeps things interesting. Just my opinion.

On another note, I did find it interesting when Steve pointed out that there has been no hard data provided from Android handset makers of how many phones are being or have been sold? Is this true? Didn't Google say there are at least 200,000 Android activations a day or something like that? That's a lot of phones.
post #117 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Get back to me in 2 years and we'll see if Apple is bankrupt yet.



Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is predicting that Apple will be bankrupt in two years. Or in any other time frame.

Nobody.

So you can relax, and stop this sort of defense; it was never included in any attack.
post #118 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

There IS a lot you can do with a stock Android device compared to a stock iPhone:
1. Most notably, wifi hotspot.

XDA developers is a site that shows you a lot about what Android can do, modded or not.

My question was not about stock vs. stock. The fact that stock Android phones offer the WiFi hotspot feature is not because Android is open-source but because Google, the handset makers, and carriers decided to put that feature in.
Adding this feature to Android phones that don't ship with it can require similar effort as jail-breaking an iOS device to add this feature there.

Open can mean two things, an OS which allows you to do more things in its stock configuration (for which Android has an advantage, though not all Android phones on all carriers have all the features) and being open-source. But open-source does not automatically means more features.
post #119 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

It's now the war of # of activations, which Google started back in May with 160,000 activations/day, then over 200K/day. Then Jobs countered with a higher number and now again with close to 300K. I'm sure Google will respond in kind as well.

i

Remember last time around? He suggested that Google was cooking the books, lying about the numbers. He tried to get people to think that, in reality, the facts were different from reality.

This time around, he takes an old number from Google, and a recent number from Apple, and compares the two. As if the comparison is meaningful. And guess what? Again, Apple "wins". But the comparison is bogus, so the conclusion is bogus.
post #120 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

At my office, there are now more people with Android phones than iPhones. I personally will be sticking with an iPhone, but this is not an obscure issue, it's very real. Apple's not doomed or failing, they just need to watch their backs or they will be surpassed (again).


Ummm....recent reports show that, indeed, Android OS is now the more popular choice among consumers buying phones. Apple has been surpassed already.

We can claim that Google is cooking the books. We can claim that it ain't so, Joe. But the facts will be harder and harder to obfuscate as time goes on.

Soon, it will be "I don't care that everybody and his brother has an Android phone. I don't care that there is a lot more software available for Android. I have good taste. So I use Apple products."
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