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RIM: Problems with 7-inch tablets only exist in Apple's 'distortion field'

post #1 of 345
Thread Starter 
Responding to Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs' claims that a touchscreen tablet with a 7-inch screen is too small to use, a co-CEO of Research in Motion said the comments do not apply to users "who live outside of Apple's distortion field."

The comments made Tuesday by RIM's Jim Balsillie are, of course, meant to defend his company's 7-inch PlayBook tablet set to launch in early 2011. Balsillie said he thinks customers are "getting tired of being told what to think by Apple."

"For those of us who live outside of Apple's distortion field, we know that 7-inch tablets will actually be a big portion of the market and we know that Adobe Flash support actually matters to customers who want a real web experience," Balsillie said in his response. "We also know that while Apple's attempt to control the ecosystem and maintain a closed platform may be good for Apple, developers want more options and customers want to fully access the overwhelming majority of web sites that use Flash."

On Monday, Jobs indirectly took aim at the PlayBook and other forthcoming 7-inch tablet devices when he said that the form factor is too small for users.

"(A 7-inch screen size is) meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size," Jobs said. He added that his company has done extensive research on touchscreen interfaces and what works best for users, which is how it arrived at a 9.7-inch display for the iPad.

RIM's co-CEO on Tuesday also took the opportunity to respond to comments Jobs made Tuesday about the iPhone outselling all BlackBerry phones during the September quarter. Apple sold a record 14.1 million iPhones, exceeding Wall Street expectations.

"RIM has achieved record shipments for five consecutive quarters and recently shared guidance of 13.8 (million to) 14.4 million BlackBerry smartphones for the current quarter," Balsillie said. "Apple's preference to compare its September-ending quarter with RIM's August-ending quarter doesn't tell the whole story because it doesn't take into account that industry demand in September is typically stronger than summer months, nor does it explain why Apple only shipped 8.4 million devices in its prior quarter and whether Apple's Q4 results were padded by unfulfilled Q3 customer demand and channel orders."

"As usual, whether the subject is antennas, Flash or shipments, there is more to the story and sooner or later, even people inside the distortion field will begin to resent being told half a story."

Jobs prompted the response by appearing on his company's quarterly earnings conference call on Monday. The Apple co-founder took the opportunity to speak his mind on RIM and Google's Android mobile operating system.

"We've now passed RIM," Jobs said. "I don't see them catching up with us in the foreseeable future. It will be a challenge for them to create a mobile software platform and convince developers to support a third platform."
post #2 of 345
Same ol', Same ol' ...

Flash this, blah blah blah, flash that, blah blah blah. Flash is a bloated mess and an absolute battery WHORE! It's the cause of most crashes of all browsers and is CLOSED proprietary software, which is ironically the same thing they seem to be railing against. Hypocrites! IF they got off their collective butts and really invested time and money into HTML5, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Oh and I say when iPhone opens up to Verizon, and the other two baby cellphone companies, you are going to see a HUGE growth spurt. I personally know many friends who are waiting and once CDMA phones drop, it's on like donkey kong ... sorry I had to throw that in there.
post #3 of 345
What do you expect RIM to say?

"My God! Steve Jobs is RIGHT! We are failures!!"
post #4 of 345
Well maybe he is right and maybe he is not, the market will decide once these devices come to the market.

Personally I own an iPhone and an iPad, I don't think I would have bought an iPad if it was 7" as I would not have seen a big enough improvement over my iPhone to justify it.
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #5 of 345
Blackberry ceased to be interesting to me in the Summer of 2007. All my Blackberry lovin' friends from back then were jealous of Safari, and since then of the apps. They all carry iPhones now. I don't see them going backwards.
post #6 of 345
I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #7 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well maybe he is right and maybe he is not, the market will decide once these devices come to the market.

Personally I own an iPhone and an iPad, I don't think I would have bought an iPad if it was 7" as I would not have seen a big enough improvement over my iPhone to justify it.

I think Apple would have been crucified by the media if the iPad had come out at 7"
post #8 of 345
That's wonderful Jim.. How about you show us an "actual" working demo of Playbook as you've yet to do that instead of showing some fancy videos and spitting out specs? How about RIM spend time coming up with a better product than the Torch instead of trash talking a company that's rolling with the Benjamins right now.

What's up with all these CEOs trash talking? Jobs, Ellison, Ballmer, etc. I guess they all have new job titles as well.. CET (CHIEF EXECUTIVE TRASH TALKER).

This is a fun and amusing time in the tech world.. I can just sit down, have some popcorn, watch and listen to these top tech dogs trash each other. Trash talking has gone beyond the football field and basketball court.. Fun times indeed.
post #9 of 345
ooooh...

Steve's arrow hits another soft spot.
Great stuff.
post #10 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

I've heard other remarks like this, indicating some interest in a smaller iPad someday. There may be a market, as you say, but I am glad Apple chose the 9.7" as a first device. As long as Apple is selling every iPad it can make, I wouldn't look for another form factor anytime soon. They have no motive, since they already own the market.

As for the iPhone/Touch, those are pocketable, and therefore a different category of device. For instance, I carry my iPhone everywhere, but the iPad is sometimes too bulky for convenience.
post #11 of 345
Agree - the market will decide if a 7" tablet fills the bill or not. I can also recall SJ lambasting video on a mp3 player screen shortly before the first video iPod was introduced.
post #12 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

Although the iPhone and the iPad share the same OS, the user interface elements are quite different. I think Steve's point was that an iPad like interface would not work for a 7" screen (not sure I agree, but I am pretty confident thats what he meant). An iPhone like UI would work on the 7" screen.
But that brings us to his second argument (which most outlets have ignored) that the slightly greater mobility 7" gives you, is not worth the loss of usability. Essentially, the 7" only adds the ability to stow away in handbags, to what the iPad can do (or maybe large jacket pockets).
OTOH, the slightly greater usability the 7" screen gives you over the iPhone, is not worth the extensive loss of portability (the iPhone or iPod Touch can literally go everywhere). So his point was basically that 7" was a compromise not giving you enough usability as the iPad, nor enough portability as the iPhone.
I disagree with these comments of his (but its not like I have used a 7" tablet, so take my opinion for what its worth) but I do agree with his other comment. The ONLY reason all these companies are promising 7" tablets is because they cannot compete with Apple on price.

I think Apple's reputation for charing an Apple Tax is blinding people to the amazing cost efficiencies Apple is achieving. They have cornered the markets on most components, and got the best prices (locked in years ago). They have brought a lot of component design in house, saving extensively in costs (best example is the A4). Their software is fantastically tuned to the hardware, meaning that the same amount of hardware goes far further running iOS than Android and the likes. Their supply chain is Walmart like efficient.

Not only are the able to control costs like none other, they are able to control selling prices like no one else in the industry. AT&T would love to give an iPhone away for each iPhone you buy, like Verizon does with Droids, but Apple prevents them from doing this because they know people are willing to pay the money they ask for the iPhone.

This is the real "Apple Tax". People are willing to pay the actual price for Apple products, rather than waiting for them to drop to below cost level bargain bin rates.
post #13 of 345
I thought Jobs' most poignant remark was that RIM and HP are behind in the OS implementation and will have a difficult time catching up. I wish more CEO's would talk as frankly as Jobs. Go on the record and not be so mealy mouthed!

And secondly, his comment that TweetDeck had to test their Android app on 100 different phones before release. That sounds a lot like a Windows problem.

Thirdly, I agree, integration trumps fragmentation. Many times on this board I have said that although Google software is free, it is still too fragmented when compared to Apple.

Best
post #14 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

The point Jobs made was that for typical tablet content 7" is too small. Of course you can scale up everything that works on a smartphone to 7" and it will still work (*) but all that content that only really works on the iPad but not so well on the iPhone does not work that well on 7". The question is naturally what percentage of iPad usage would not have been done (or much less satisfactorily) on an iPhone or a 7" device. A lot of tasks work well enough on all three sizes (3/3.5", 7", 10"), ie, web browsing. But there is always the uncanny valley, if take something with me that does not fit into my pocket and I have a 7" and a 10" device in front of me, which will I take with me?

(*) I can hold my iPhone in one hand and type on it. Heck I recently wrote the protocol of a meeting during the meeting on my iPhone. Could I do the same with a 7" device? I doubt it. That means there are tasks that work well on an iPhone but would not work as well on a 7" device.
post #15 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

ooooh...

Steve's arrow hits another soft spot.
Great stuff.

Yeah. I'm LOVIN' it.
post #16 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsteph View Post

Agree - the market will decide if a 7" tablet fills the bill or not. I can also recall SJ lambasting video on a mp3 player screen shortly before the first video iPod was introduced.

Hmmmm..... Was there a competing product there that made Apple change its mind? If so, what?
post #17 of 345
Anyways.. Apple has been known to do things they say the wouldn't do. So I wouldn't be surprised if they release a 7" iPad..
post #18 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Responding to Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs' claims that a touchscreen tablet with a 7-inch screen is too small to use, a co-CEO of Research in Motion said the comments do not apply to users "who live outside of Apple's distortion field."...

Flash is a lost cause, but I find myself agreeing about the 7" tablet. I would love to ditch the too small iPhone and the too big iPad and just use one mid-sized device. It would suit my needs better than either of the two current alternatives and I know i'm not alone. I've heard the same thing from far too many people for us all to be wrong.

I also find that Steve's remark about the sandpaper is just rude and juvenile. It's also insulting in that it makes no sense to say a 7" iPad is too small for fingers when the iPhone is even smaller. The only serious testing that's been done (admittedly before the iPad arrived) says that thumb-typing in portrait mode on the iPhone is one of the fastest methods of input available. I know from personal experience that I can type much faster on an iPhone than I can on an iPad, simply because the iPad with it's gigantic side bezels is just too large to effectively thumb type on at all.

For those of us that want a small, efficient portable computer but don't necessarily need a phone, or a TV watching machine, a 7" tablet is the sweet spot. RIM's tablet will no doubt be a gigantic piece of junk and the Galaxy Tab is looking to be a loser as well, so Steve is right when he says these devices will likely fail in the market, but being very, very disingenuous when he implies this will be due to some quintessential problem with screen real estate.

I have a lot of iPhone apps with more buttons in the menu bar and much smaller targets for my fingers than Pages or Numbers on the iPad and they work very well indeed. IMO Mr. Jobs is out and out lying about some of this stuff and it's really quite apparent this time that he is. Perhaps the reality distortion field is finally breaking down. I know it has for me.
post #19 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... there is more to the story and sooner or later, even people inside the distortion field will begin to resent being told half a story...

While one may chose to argue about the other statements from RiM's co-CEO, this one is hard to refute.
post #20 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsteph View Post

I can also recall SJ lambasting video on a mp3 player screen shortly before the first video iPod was introduced.

True but I think video did add little to the value of the iPod. It was not that it was completely unusable it was a marginal feature not worth getting your panties in a bunch over. Similarly as 7" tablets won't have zero market share, just that it might be much smaller than the 10" tablet market.
post #21 of 345
Oh and for the record, size DOES matter. 7" is acceptable for some, but most would agree that 10" is much more usable.
post #22 of 345
And the fish just keep biting
post #23 of 345
That was a good response, to be fair.

He's wrong about 7" tablets, though. And not just because Steve said it. I've said the same thing for weeks now. I think the sweet-spot is 9" myself. Not 9.7". And it's more to do with weight than anything else. but it has also do so with size in my opinion. If the iPad had the same res screen, but was 9" even I think it would be a nicer device.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #24 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah. I'm LOVIN' it.

Me too. If it was not for Apple we would all be working on dusty, creaky, plasticky, beige Windows computers with Motorola Symbian cell phones using a DataSync software and cable to sync your phone with the computer...Norton AV tools up the yazoo, laptops with 2 hr batteries, 15 different ugly power bricks in your house, a tower with cables, cables, cables, a wireless mouse but with a receiver on your desk connected to the tower with a cable, IE 4, Word, etc., etc.

Good times!


Uggh!



Best
post #25 of 345
ouch rim, that must have hurt!!!

Funny staff.

So get that revolutionary 7" tablet (a size which btw you chose simply because you can't compete in price and quality in a larger device, a fact you conveniently omit...) out on the market so people can go. Wtf do I need a 7" inch device on the go, when I can do almost everything with my smart phone, and why should I go for a crammed reading, using, and browsing experience, when an ipad is a few inches and grams bigger so it won't make much difference to carry around in my bag, and certainly no difference to carry around at home.

You see rim, the scenario of a 7" tablet would work if people did not have smart phones. But sadly they do, so you are in essence trying to position a product between two devices: one that does portability much much better, being light, pocketable etc. etc. and one that does browsing, reading, app usage etc. much better than your device because of the larger screen. And you come up with something that's better in sweet f.a. Because sure it's a pleasure to use a 7" device instead of your phone at home, but you can't really go out with it and leave your phone behind, and if you are only going to use the device at home, then you might as well go at a decent size of the ipad.

7" devices are hardly adequate as ereaders with eink and that's as far as they are going. Of course some users will be suckered in here, some always are suckered in, and as soon as they figure out that what they have is good at neither portability nor usability, they will make it stand as photo frame or something and they will weep for their monies spent....

There is no reality distortion field here from apple. They worked their asses off for this device (and they are not merely trying to ride the coattails of some else as rim are doing) and they know damn well what the proper size should be.
post #26 of 345
Well, Apple actually spends the money on user interface research and before iPad was released to the public there were rumors that apple was buying 7" and 10" touch screen panels. No doubt they tested numerous sizes before deciding on the current iPad size. I accept the reality-distortion field because it usually becomes the new reality when people start using the products. I don't think this is fake, I think this is using great marketing to move consumer opinions. It's how a product succeeds. Great products that "came before their time" basically flopped because of poor marketing.
post #27 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That was a good response, to be fair.

He's wrong about 7" tablets, though. And not just because Steve said it. I've said the same thing for weeks now. I think the sweet-spot is 9" myself. Not 9.7". And it's more to do with weight than anything else. but it has also do so with size in my opinion. If the iPad had the same res screen, but was 9" even I think it would be a nicer device.

Could you be more specific regarding your reasons for 'size'? Just an aesthetic thing, or something else? (Weight is constantly being brought down as things progress, so I am not concerned about that.)
post #28 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Personally I own an iPhone and an iPad, I don't think I would have bought an iPad if it was 7" as I would not have seen a big enough improvement over my iPhone to justify it.

I believe the 7" form factor would work and is not the problem. If Apple came out with a 7" iPad (I own an iPad 32gig3G), I could count on great battery life and a better price than Any of the other announced tablets.

So...

Re: Flash. Well, I wouldn't mind it but battery life is More Important.

Re: Size. With iOS 4.2 and the right price, I'd buy it.

I've heard from every single one of my (latest version of) Android-using colleagues at work -- The battery life is absolutely DREADFUL. No Kidding... one can't get through ONE day on a single charge.

But this being said, it sounds like Jobs has decided NO 7" iPad. Bummer.
post #29 of 345
problem for most CEO's competing with Apple is that they likely have a better product but people still buy Apple.

it's a headscratching exercise for most.....

you can list half a dozen products in the relevant sectors (mp3, phone etc.) that are better than anything Apple has offered or will offer.

Macs are rubbish for the money and iTunes is a joke.

they are masters in 'desperately average'


I fully agree with Mr RIM and I hope he finds a solution soon.
post #30 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

So his point was basically that 7" was a compromise not giving you enough usability as the iPad, nor enough portability as the iPhone.
I disagree with these comments of his (but its not like I have used a 7" tablet, so take my opinion for what its worth) but I do agree with his other comment. The ONLY reason all these companies are promising 7" tablets is because they cannot compete with Apple on price.

Listening to steve's comments on yesterday's call, I think you interpreted both points correctly. He made some comments about usability because screen elements have to be a certain distance apart from each other to be effectively used with fingers. And I think he views the iPad and it's 9.7" screen as something far more conducive to content creation AND consumption than say an iPhone or iPod touch. He made the point that at 7", you're losing around 45% screen real estate, which is really where the big penalty comes in as far as content creation, so you're in essence limited to a smartphone-level of functionality but in something that's much larger than a smartphone.

Finally, Apple is very much ahead of RIM when it comes to miniaturization of components and also the sheer economies of scale that they've developed over the years. Everything they've learned from making iPods to iPhones to unibody Macs contributes to a huge lead in not only design, but also manufacturing. Apple may not operate the factories, but they must still work closely with their partners in developing the systems and processes to manufacture something. I think Apple's past history in manufacturing their own computers contributes to that experience.
post #31 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Flash is a lost cause, but I find myself agreeing about the 7" tablet. I would love to ditch the too small iPhone and the too big iPad and just use one mid-sized device. It would suit my needs better than either of the two current alternatives and I know i'm not alone. I've heard the same thing from far too many people for us all to be wrong.

Are you saying you'd hold up a 7" device to your head to use as a phone?
post #32 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well maybe he is right and maybe he is not, the market will decide once these devices come to the market.

And THAT is the major issue here. Until RIM or HP or SOMEONE gets off their butt and releases a tablet in 7", it's all just speculation.

Maybe RIM should spend their time and energy on actually creating a product they can sell instead of whining about Jobs presenting his view of the market. And, given recent history, I'd say that Jobs' view of the market has a lot going for it. But, hey, I'm open minded. I'll be happy to look at what RIM creates - if they ever have a product to sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well.

Gee, a Boeing 727 is too small for International flights, so Toyota will never be able to sell a Camry. Right?

Suggestion - learn the difference between a tablet and a phone and THEN come back and express an opinion.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #33 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

While one may chose to argue about the other statements from RiM's co-CEO, this one is hard to refute.

People resent a lot of things for the wrong reasons though, and they are fast to project resentment for other things in their lives to unrelated issues: My boss is yelling at me and I resent apple because if only they 'd given me that mac mini tower I 'd be sorted.

Steve and apple are of course fallible, and they have made some stubborn decisions that can be considered wrong (case in point for me is the whole anti glare thing), but to be honest these are very few and far between and do not warrant comments on reality distortion fields.

If there's anyone actually distorting reality at the moment it's rim, google and ms. Ms with their perennial vapourware and announced features that never materialize, google with their do no evil which translates to gather huge databases of private data, spy, and pimp ads to everyone, and lately rim which are distorting reality by saying that the market leader, the one they are trying to ride the coattails of is to blame. And at the same time touting 7" inch tablets as some sort of revelation, whilst not being honest in saying that they lack the hardware and software to create a 9" one that could seriously compete in price and quality with apple.
post #34 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


I fully agree with Mr RIM and I hope he finds a solution soon.

lol Mr. RIM
post #35 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

problem for most CEO's competing with Apple is that they likely have a better product but people still buy Apple.

it's a headscratching exercise for most.....

you can list half a dozen products in the relevant sectors (mp3, phone etc.) that are better than anything Apple has offered or will offer.

Macs are rubbish for the money and iTunes is a joke.

they are masters in 'desperately average'


I fully agree with Mr RIM and I hope he finds a solution soon.

I thought this was ironic, it's not, apparently...

So tell us, oh wise one, which companies have the better products and keep losing to apple despite of this.

Let's take this example: Rim has the better tablet... oh wait, rim doesn't even have a tablet out yet?

But let's just throw some dirt and some platitudes and some of it will stick.

Btw, I loled so hard, at "better than anything Apple has offered or WILL offer". So you have a crystal ball too it seems.
post #36 of 345
There's nothing surprising in RIM's response. It's not like they were going to admit it. In the end, what may very well happen is that the 7" tablets will be introduced, no one will buy them for whatever reason - or sell very little - RIM will proclaim that sales were "brisk", then quietly discontinue the product, or increase the screen size only to fail again and by sheer coincidence, the CEO will "leave the company to pursue other business opportunities".

Happens all the time.
post #37 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

I believe the 7" form factor would work and is not the problem. If Apple came out with a 7" iPad (I own an iPad 32gig3G), I could count on great battery life and a better price than Any of the other announced tablets.

So...

Re: Flash. Well, I wouldn't mind it but battery life is More Important.

Re: Size. With iOS 4.2 and the right price, I'd buy it.

I've heard from every single one of my (latest version of) Android-using colleagues at work -- The battery life is absolutely DREADFUL. No Kidding... one can't get through ONE day on a single charge.

But this being said, it sounds like Jobs has decided NO 7" iPad. Bummer.

your colleagues are either useless or lying, both my android handsets outperform both iphone 3gs and iphone 4 in battery life by a handy margin.

maybe its the extra calls they can take because of the improved reception??
post #38 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And THAT is the major issue here. Until RIM or HP or SOMEONE gets off their butt and releases a tablet in 7", it's all just speculation.

Maybe RIM should spend their time and energy on actually creating a product they can sell instead of whining about Jobs presenting his view of the market. And, given recent history, I'd say that Jobs' view of the market has a lot going for it. But, hey, I'm open minded. I'll be happy to look at what RIM creates - if they ever have a product to sell.

Exactly. They should put their money where their mouth is. If I were the journalist listening to this guy from RIM chastising Jobs with some pretty harsh words I would go, ok, fair enough, so where can I buy your product then? Because there's no bigger reality distortion field than having someone try to talk his way into product superiority with no actual tangible product to sell.

Imagine if rim had been market leader here, if they 'd brought a new device that sold beyond expectations to the market, and Steve came out and said yes, well, we have a great product too, it's not out yet, we are not really sure why it will be better other than it will have a smaller screen, but don't buy into rim's lies, and keep waiting for our product to appear. Everyone would have jumped on him, and he would have been a laughing stock, much as rim's co-ceo is at the moment.

But I guess if you are not up to competing with actual products, you open your mouth a lot.

And of course they are so confident about their product that simply because another ceo said a few things about similar styled products you just had to reply to him. Well Balmer was laughing and mocking the iphone on launch, but no one at apple felt compelled to respond to him. They answered with their product via the market that found it useful and desirable.

So, rim should let their products do their talking...but wait they can't, they are not even here yet.
post #39 of 345
The proof is in the pudding.

iPhone: outselling Blackberry
iPad: oustelling Playbook
iOS: outperforming Blackberry OS (more iOS developers, more iOS apps, etc)

Steve Jobs can talk smack because he has results to back him up.
post #40 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I thought this was ironic, it's not, apparently...

So tell us, oh wise one, which companies have the better products and keep losing to apple despite of this.

Let's take this example: Rim has the better tablet... oh wait, rim doesn't even have a tablet out yet?

But let's just throw some dirt and some platitudes and some of it will stick.

Btw, I loled so hard, at "better than anything Apple has offered or WILL offer". So you have a crystal ball too it seems.

Didn't think i needed to list them? Anyway, for anyone outside the reality distortion field....

Any SONY MP3 player is far better noise production wise than anything the iPod has ever offered. Heck even the Creative ones are better and the Zune HD is better for noise and picture..

the iPad is a lovely piece of hardware, crippled by useless production software. Browsing the web, watching a movie its Ok but if I want to do something professional, productive and compatible then I pull out a PC laptop which was half the price and will likely last twice the amount of time an Apple laptop will last (in my experience).

OSX is held up as the bastion of OS development..... but Win 7 is clearly better in nearly every way. Heck the new Ubu is better than OSX.

Any phone..as a phone is better than the iPhone, pick any manufacturer you like. iOS UI is so dated and poor now its not funny. Android just wipes the floor with it. You can set Android up so that the number of times you have to press an icon is so small it doesn't matter.

Pressing icon buttons to get to a Wifi network setting is so 2007!!!

lets not forget the TCO of iPhone too, in some places its 3 or 4 times the cost of other 3g phones.

Vertical integration always fails.....always will.

Enjoy the good times, they won't last forever
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