RIM: Problems with 7-inch tablets only exist in Apple's 'distortion field' - Page 4

Oh come on I think you could use any fruit, why be so adamant about bananas?

I'm on my iPad right now. Pity the poor iOS developer - the thought of programming for yet another screen size must be unbearable. Imagine having to collect another 99 cents from every single person who wants your app.

BTW how do you type the cents glyph on an iPad or have pennies been banned as well?

My dad died this year at 87. He was sitting at his new 27" iMac and had an aneurism. I have 23,000 e-mails from him to go back over, Dad's are a great miss.

Steve is right, and wrong at the same time. The iPad screen is an ideal size for the iPad's interface. A 7" screen is too small to be efficient and would be extremely cramped. However iPhone screens are 3.5" and perfectly usable. It's all about how you design the UI.

I agree with Steve that the 10" iPad is the ideal size, but he is either intentionally deflecting or failing to understand that the competition is going to sell millions of 7" tablets even if they're not the ideal size.

A device with a 7 inch screen is too big to put in your pocket and too small to do anything useful with.

Steve Jobs is right.

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Let me see if I have this right?

This co-guy, Balsillie, conducts an event to introduce the PlayBook Tablet

He shows some video of something -- a touchless touch interface

He walks around stage with a slab with something that looks like XMAS wrapping pasted on the front -- that he never even looks at or holds it up

He announces that the highly-efficient Flash will provide the GUI

He announces some mondo specs
-- 1 GHz Dual Core Processor
-- 1 GB RAM
-- Dual Everything
-- Support for every programming language known to man
-- Cell radio support for 0G, 1G, 2G, 3G, LTE, 5G
-- 17 connecter orifices - including 1 for a winch
-- yadda, yadda, yadda


He doesn't know what it will cost.

He doesn't know when it will be available.

He doesn't know it's battery life.

He can't show you one because, it doesn't exist.



Now, that's a reality distortion field!


Steve Jobs could learn from him!


... not too interested in the device...

... but, can I buy me some of those specs... separately?

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Now lets consider that other vendors need to use more powerful chips that subsequently use more power because the OS is less idealized for the HW. Then add in the less engineered components that take up more room than what Apple can achieve with their top to bottom refinements.

It will be interesting to see if this is the case. I am not willing to bet either way just yet. Also I recall Steve ridiculing the idea any one would watch a small screen then a year later proudly showed the iPod with color screen and movie playing ability. You never know if he is just throwing curved balls at the copycats or not.

Well that's even better news.

At some point you have to wonder why every computer / phone hardware manufacturer feels they have to ape everything Apple does. There are infinite possibilities out there!

My heart goes out to you, friend.

Now, let's enter the real world and use our brains.

Let's make all the assumptions as favorable to your argument as possible. Now:

- A 7" screen has roughly 1/2 the area of a 10" screen. So let's assume that the case thickness is zero and the thickness of a 7" iPad is the same as a 10" iPad. That means that the internal volume of a 7" iPad would be 1/2 of the volume of a 10" iPad.

Now, let's look at internal volumes:
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc volumes would be the same in the 10" and 7" iPads. So the battery volume in the 7" would have to reduced by MORE than 50%.

Power usage?
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc batter usage would be the same. Let's assume that screen energy usage is proportional to its area, so it would be 50% lower (again, it would actually use MORE than 1/2 the energy of the 10", but we're biasing everything your way).

So, battery volume would be considerably LESS than 1/2 the iPad, but energy usage would be considerably MORE than 1/2 of the iPad.

Result? Dismal battery life.


And I see nothing supporting anything you've said - except your own delusions. If you ever have facts, feel free to present them.

Windows 7 better than OS X in every way? Only if your an IT guru relying on customer support for your job security.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Move on troll. Throw your bs on people who care. The reception on ATT is location specific. If you don't like it pick another carrier. Outperform, what is your metric? A handy margin spoken like a true engineer or is that a salesmen? The reality is all these devices are battery constrained and Apple is currently making a great performance vs battery compromise. Show real data ro STFU

Yes indeed.

And yet you seemingly continue to buy his products .... hmmmm .. strange, very strange.

Or so you imagine. Apple has already imagined all sort of screen sizes, plus Steve says they done the math (ie. testing) and the idea is dumb. Time to reset your reality gauge, because in this universe, opinions about computer design by Steve Jobs are much more valuable and insightful than yours.

Maybe you have a special physical condition that precludes an iPad? Have you ever thought about trying a gym? Build up a little muscle and you can increase your carrying capacity a tenth of a pound to carry a 10 inch. Look at it this way, Steve Jobs has had pancreatic cancer twice and he seems to be able to sport an iPad with ease. I think a little strength training would help you in all sorts of ways.

I understand that there are also people who are very small in stature. I saw a movie called 'Stuart Little' about someone with this condition. In this case, it's understandable why you might want a smaller tablet to carry. However, I think you would be much better off with the larger screen, laying it on the floor, and jumping on the screen with your tiny mouse feet. If the touch gestures are too difficult, you can try using your tail in conjunction with one leg to achieve scrolling, pinch-zoom, and rotation.

Is that why apple's market share is so low? Why not fix that?

You use yours, I'll work mine.

Keep in mind I'm comparing a 9" iPad to a 9.7" version. I'm not talking about 7" tablets.

You used to have to stop and consider a comment for a second, but between Arch, appl and jfanning the caliber of trolling has really become pretty weak.

Take Archs comments about the battery life. He makes no specific statements about Android models and states no actual testing hes done (the first two clues). Add in independent sites actually testing these handsets and you see how these guys are really just talking out their asses.

It doesn't surprise me that iPad sales have tanked, there are just to many glaring issues with this rev one device. For one people are starting to realize the thing doesn't have the RAM to make it a good investment. More so they are realizing the screen size of the device really sucks. It is simply to big for many uses and is combined with a terrible aspect ratio.


This is all BS, there is absolutely nothing stopping the construction of usable Controls on an intermediate iPad. Nothing.

Besides the sales of similarly sized E-Book readers ought to cause people to wise up here. Sometimes portability for a given level of functionality is everything.
[quote]
OTOH, the slightly greater usability the 7" screen gives you over the iPhone, is not worth the extensive loss of portability
[quote]
The screen area difference is massive.

Frankly I think his point was to confuse the market!

I don't think this is the case either. IPad is a device with extremely limited functionality that has to be supplemented with very expensive add ons. Be it the cellular modem or the camera connection kit. In the end iPad is one expensive kit.

Well if you look at iPhone that advantage isn't being passed on to consummers. IPad of course doesn't have competition right now but you would have to be delusional to think it is a good buy. All I need to do is offer up Apple TV and its low price to squash any arguement about iPad being a good buy. For the most part the same basic hardware.

Beyound that why in the hell does iPad get so expensive for modest increases in flash memory? Seriously if Apple is getting such good deals on parts why doesn't it pass along these savings.

The biggest problem I have with the above is this idea that the sofyware is so perfectly tuned for iOS devices. Clearly it isn't as can be seen by the rapid drop in support for older iOS devices.

And that is a good thing?

The real Apple tax is convincing people that their high prices are in actuality a bargain. Snake Oil salesman could learn a thing or two from Apple.

Simple ..... because their opinion is not supported by the truth.

I don't know, maybe the RIM guy is on to something. Look how well all those 7" netbooks have done. Fully 5% of the netbooks NewEgg carries are 8.9" or smaller. Clearly, that's a pretty huge market, and consumers are excited to check email and watch movies on 7" screens. </sarcasm>

Oh. Bragging rights?

Wait until the 4th quarter results are in, and see if "team iOs" will be bragging.

iOs does not now have dominant mindshhare. go to Google News and check out the smartphone section. the iPhone is barely mentioned, with HP and Android and Win7 being the hot topics.

Again - in a few months, after Xmas, and if market share and mindshare are something that makes you feel good, well, do your enjoying in the past.

You know what they say about you when you assume?

Who cares about market share? Heck, RIM could get back to 80% market share if they simply gave away their product. Honda Civics, perfectly decent cars, far outsell BMW's. Who would you say has greater mindshare among consumers?

Android's a great commodity platform, and everyone knows it should have twice Apple's market share in 5 years or so. But platform fragmentation, lower margins, and the natural friction among all of its players will make it a less cohesive platform. Great for college students, hackers, and those on a budget. Apple will continue to lead when it comes to innovation, profitability, and brand image.

I'm amazed that the Droid X gets such long battery life. It has a HUGE screen. Apple could learn something about design trade-offs from it.

Jobs' strongest argument against the 7-inch tablet is that it can't compete with the phone in terms of mobility, and can't compete with the 10-inch tablet in terms of usability. The problem is not that it's too small in of itself. Obviously, a phone is even smaller.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2307...all-transcript
Apple's CEO Discusses F4Q10 Results - Earnings Call Transcript
October 18, 2010
Third, every tablet user is also a smartphone user. No tablet can compete with the mobility of a smartphone, its ease of fitting into your pocket or purse, its unobtrusiveness when used in a crowd. Given that all tablet users will already have a smartphone in their pockets, giving up precious display area to fit a tablet in our pockets is clearly the wrong tradeoff. The seven-inch tablets are tweeners, too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with an iPad.

Deny the past and pray for the future. Sounds like Steve Balmer's MSFT strategy.

Did he just give the specs of a laptop??

You know, I believe you and Balsillie really are "cut from the same cloth". Balsillie acted like a clueless, boorish oaf in his "dealings" with the NHL while trying to buy a franchise until the NHL just got tired of his actions and basically told him ... don't call us, we'll call you. He's still doesn't own a franchise.

If I were you I'd look for someone else to "follow".

I think Steve does. He seems to bring it up often. Indeed, he just brought it up during a conference call.

First of all, there's no such thing - even in rumor.

Second, if you do the math, the result is the same. You would significantly reduce battery life in order to save that 1/2".

I completely agree. The more Apple products I've purchased, the more integrated everything has become and the more seamless and efficient my computing devices have become. It would be hard to move away from this and because of this, when I wanted a new phone recently, the iPhone was the ONLY smartphone option for me. I either got an iPhone that played well with everything I had or got a basic mobile phone for just making calls (and used my iPod Touch for everything else). I'm so glad I got my iPhone.

From a guy who obviously has never used a Mac, or iTunes on a Mac.

Good analysis. Except the iPad has a lot of extra room in the case.


I believe that Apple could engineer an acceptable battery for a 7" form factor.


If Apple ever does offer a 7" iPad, likely, this is how it will go:

Steve:

We've listened to our customers who want some thing between the iPod Touch and the iPad.

We've looked around and the 7" tablets out there really don't do the job.

Well, We've found a way -- we re-thought the requirements and redesigned an integrated hardware and software solution from the ground up
-- better display
-- better UI 3-Access elements
-- better battery life - 11 hours
-- thinner lighter weight
-- Dynamic resolution independence
-- all the Touch and iPad apps will run unmodified
-- all the advantages of a 7" tablet with none of the disadvantages
-- all the typical Apple goodness
-- fits in most larger pockets-- Suit, Shorts, Camos, LabCoats...

... and the price will start at $279...

... it's available, for pre-order today!

... shipments starta at the end of the month.

Let me show it to you, now...

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On 3G, the iPhone gets 50% larger battery life compared to the Droid X which as a 22% larger screen (by diagonal size) but fewer pixels.

So what's that about trade-offs?

My condolences. This sort of lock-in is both annoying and not necessary. It is too bad that open standards don't exist, so that you have choice. I think some companies like to use open standards, and others are closed so they can lock you in.

The Droid has a big, beautiful screen AND great battery life. Seemingly, Motorola didn't let the balance tip too far one way or the other, and got the trade-offs both into a sweet, sweet spot.

Your arithmetic and specsmanship don't appeal to average consumers.

That point is that a considerable portion of iPads power budget goes to lighting up the screen. You don't take this into account below and then mis on other issues.

You make assumptions above that aren't supported by currently shipping hardware. In fact iPhone 4 ships with more RAM. IPad with its rather large PC board also ships with plenty of free space inside its case. Given all of this info building a seven inch class device with even more battery life should be easy.

It should be fairly easy for Apple to pack the same capacity into a seven inch machine. As to power usage of the back light it is not a given what the usage will be like. Power could be significantly less as they improve LED back lighting.

Or not! Besides whos to say that theydon't have a process shrunk A4 ready or a new Cortex A9 based chip ready to go. Remember we are talking a future product here which would likely be based on future hardware.

So where are your facts. You gloss right over the main issue here which is power to the screen. You say they can't cut it in half but then don't back up your statements.

Well that I can agree with. However IT gurus actually trying to cut support costs are very likely to look at iPad seriously.

I wouldn't want a 7inch display but I would happily take a 7.4 inch display. One with a retina display resolution of 326pixels per inch in a 5.89 x 4.42 inch unit giving 1920 x 1440 resolution.

That would be awesome. Great for in car video watch in full HD, but enough resolution to be able to read safari on a small display.

My wife complains that the 9.7 inch unit is too big and too heavy. She also complains that the iPod Touch is too small. She would like a medium sized unit around 7-8 inches.