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RIM: Problems with 7-inch tablets only exist in Apple's 'distortion field' - Page 3

post #81 of 345
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Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Think it will work?

I'll tell you in a minute.
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post #82 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You shouldn't rise to the bait with this guy.

I'm genuinely curious see him embarrass himself.
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post #83 of 345
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Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

Didn't think i needed to list them? Anyway, for anyone outside the reality distortion field....

Any SONY MP3 player is far better noise production wise than anything the iPod has ever offered. Heck even the Creative ones are better and the Zune HD is better for noise and picture..

Funny, I don't see all the audiophiles carrying Zunes at any of the events I've ever gone to.

Quote:
the iPad is a lovely piece of hardware, crippled by useless production software. Browsing the web, watching a movie its Ok but if I want to do something professional, productive and compatible then I pull out a PC laptop which was half the price and will likely last twice the amount of time an Apple laptop will last (in my experience).

Strange. All my customers (of a huge well known software/hardware company) are asking us to make software for iPad. And my customers intend to use them broadly in health sciences and pharma industries. And you obviously have never used an Apple laptop in say, 5 years.

Quote:
OSX is held up as the bastion of OS development..... but Win 7 is clearly better in nearly every way. Heck the new Ubu is better than OSX.

Now you're just smokin' crack.

Quote:
Any phone..as a phone is better than the iPhone, pick any manufacturer you like. iOS UI is so dated and poor now its not funny. Android just wipes the floor with it. You can set Android up so that the number of times you have to press an icon is so small it doesn't matter.

Scratch that....make that METH.

Quote:
Pressing icon buttons to get to a Wifi network setting is so 2007!!!

With an Esctasy chaser.

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lets not forget the TCO of iPhone too, in some places its 3 or 4 times the cost of other 3g phones.

And your proof...is?

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Vertical integration always fails.....always will.

Enjoyed your D+'s in business school, eh?

Quote:
Enjoy the good times, they won't last forever

See you in five years on that one.
post #84 of 345
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Originally Posted by GQB View Post

ooooh...

Steve's arrow hits another soft spot.
Great stuff.

Nobody stirs up shit like our Dear Leader! :-P
post #85 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

When I heard rumors of a 7" iPad I cut out a 7" piece of paper and tried it out. Trust me - when Jobs said it's a bad idea - he not lying. It's a terrible size. It's too big to fit in your pocket and too small to be much more useful than a smartphone. If the Android tablet's were 9" I'd say something. 7" is trying to be too many things, and it will be neither, well. There's a reason most people like 13" laptops, it's a sweet-spot. Well it's consider the sweet-spot.

100% agree here. 7" is a total failure. If the iPad rivals really try this they are toast.

Sweet Spot : The term originally referred to various pieces of sporting equipment, notably cricket and baseball bats and tennis rackets
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post #86 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

Funny, I don't see all the audiophiles carrying Zunes at any of the events I've ever gone to.



Strange. All my customers (of a huge well known software/hardware company) are asking us to make software for iPad. And my customers intend to use them broadly in health sciences and pharma industries. And you obviously have never used an Apple laptop in say, 5 years.



Now you're just smokin' crack.



Scratch that....make that METH.



Whatever.



And your proof...is?



Enjoyed your D+'s in business school, eh?



See you in five years on that one.


Excellent summations. Brief, to the point and accurate.
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post #87 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Not exactly. it also shaves off screen-size, which saves battery. The battery wouldn't be much different.

Battery would be different in a 7" inch enclosure. Power usage from a 7" screen is a little fraction less than a 9,7" screen uses.
À lot of power usage goes to the SoC, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G, GPS, etc...
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post #88 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

The proof is in the pudding.

iPhone: outselling Blackberry
iPad: oustelling Playbook

Android Phones: outselling iPhones
Windows: outselling OS X

C'mon. Let's not start up with market share. It's a non-winner for Apple except in the MP3 player market.
post #89 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I'll tell you in a minute.

Yeah!
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post #90 of 345
.

I have to wonder what drives the child who wants to grow to be a co-CEO

.
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post #91 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

I have to wonder what drives the child who wants to grow to be a co-CEO

.


Oh Co ... missed that!

West coasters have to allow for the wine / time lag on the east coast.
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post #92 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

Same ol', Same ol' ...

Flash this, blah blah blah, flash that, blah blah blah. Flash is a bloated mess and an absolute battery WHORE! It's the cause of most crashes of all browsers and is CLOSED proprietary software, which is ironically the same thing they seem to be railing against. Hypocrites! IF they got off their collective butts and really invested time and money into HTML5, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Oh and I say when iPhone opens up to Verizon, and the other two baby cellphone companies, you are going to see a HUGE growth spurt. I personally know many friends who are waiting and once CDMA phones drop, it's on like donkey kong ... sorry I had to throw that in there.

Oh... As a white guy, I was told it was called Honky Dong!

,
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post #93 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Responding to Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs' claims that a touchscreen tablet with a 7-inch screen is too small to use, a co-CEO of Research in Motion said the comments do not apply to users "who live outside of Apple's distortion field."

The comments made Tuesday by RIM's Jim Balsillie are, of course, meant to defend his company's 7-inch PlayBook tablet set to launch in early 2011. Balsillie said he thinks customers are "getting tired of being told what to think by Apple."


Open your eyes Balsillie...


Apple is not telling people what to think... they are explaining "the why" to your future dismal sales numbers! Doofus!!



Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #94 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Android Phones: outselling iPhones
Windows: outselling OS X

C'mon. Let's not start up with market share. It's a non-winner for Apple except in the MP3 player market.

You are on good form tonight. Comedy Central will be coming a knockin'
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post #95 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Android Phones: outselling iPhones
Windows: outselling OS X

C'mon. Let's not start up with market share. It's a non-winner for Apple except in the MP3 player market.

You can only compare Brands'/producers. Androids are so many different manufacturers, iPhone is from only 1 manufacturer.
Os X is on only Apples Macs, compared to Windows on so many different manufacturers...
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post #96 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corax View Post

Battery would be different in a 7" inch enclosure. Power usage from a 7" screen is a little fraction less than a 9,7" screen uses.
À lot of power usage goes to the SoC, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G, GPS, etc...

Are you sure about that. Isn't the power consumption of the screen going to be the same as the increase in the area? Both are related to the square law. Not my field of expertise but it seems to sound right. Please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't a 7" diagonal is about half (roughly) that of a 10" diagonal in area so therefor half in power consumption too.
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post #97 of 345
Customers "who live outside of Apple's distortion field"? I guess that would be anyone who lives where the 10" iPad is not available.
post #98 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

Steve was saying that a iPad control (30% larger than a usable iPhone control) scaled down to a 7" tablet (49% smaller than an iPad) would be too small.

He was right -- the resulting control would be 70% as large as the original iPhone control.

A control is a key, button, a slider, the area needed to pinch or flick, etc.

His point: Just as an iPad app needs to be rethought and designed differently from an iPhone app -- the 7" tablet app would introduce the need for a third "rethink and redesign".

As an iOS developer, I understand completely! And it can change everything.

.
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post #99 of 345
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Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Customers "who live outside of Apple's distortion field"? I guess that would be anyone who lives where the 10" iPad is not available.

And we already know that doesn't include Pitcairn Island Seriously it is a lame attempt at defense isn't it? When people resort to one liners you know they are in trouble. They will find out soon enough Steve is correct.
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post #100 of 345
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Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Are you saying you'd hold up a 7" device to your head to use as a phone?

No, I'm saying for the one or two phone calls month I receive, I'd use the speaker.

What people forget is that the iPhone and the iPad are a lot of things to a lot of people. One size just doesn't' "fit all." There are a lot of people like me who have no use for the phone whatsoever but have an iPhone because it's the closest thing to that portable computer we have all been waiting years for.

I communicate almost exclusively by email and I prefer it over almost any other method most of the time. I don't actually even understand folks who insist on using the old fashioned teleophonic communicator device. It's inefficient, and almost always leads to an inaccurate exchange of information, but to each their own I guess.

I want a portable tablet computer. I don't just want a telephone with some computer elements to it, (iPhone) and I don't want a portable TV with some computer elements to it (iPad). I want a workable, portable tablet computer that I can write on and draw on just as if it was writing and drawing in a paper book (like the ones I've been carrying around since the age of 16 while *waiting* for someone to come up with a portable tablet computer).

I guess my bad attitude comes from wanting this for so many years, and to be so close to getting it, but having Steve jobs just decide by his own self that "people don't want that." I'd bet there are a few million of us out there that *do* want that, but I guess we won't find out for a couple of years because that's how long it usually takes for Steve Jobs to climb off his high horse and reverse a "Steve Decision" like the one he's just made about smaller tablets.

He's right most of the time, but that doesn't mean he can't be wrong, and he's always had a giant stick up his bum about being wrong and admitting it when he is. I'll believe smaller tablets are bad when he comes up with a serious cogent argument as to why they are. What he's said so far is just BS.
post #101 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Are you sure about that. Isn't the power consumption of the screen going to be the same as the increase in the area? Both are related to the square law. Not my field of expertise but it seems to sound right. Please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't a 7" diagonal is about half (roughly) that of a 10" diagonal in area so therefor power consumption.

Yes the screen is about half in size, but not in powerconsumption of the total device, since it'll rely on the same components, but batteryspace will be around half inside.
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post #102 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No, I'm saying for the one or two phone calls month I receive, I'd use the speaker.

What people forget is that the iPhone and the iPad are a lot of things to a lot of people. One size just doesn't' "fit all." There are a lot of people like me who have no use for the phone whatsoever but have an iPhone because it's the closest thing to that portable computer we have all been waiting years for.

I communicate almost exclusively by email and I prefer it over almost any other method most of the time. I don't actually even understand folks who insist on using the old fashioned teleophonic communicator device. It's inefficient, and almost always leads to an inaccurate exchange of information, but to each their own I guess.

I want a portable tablet computer. I don't just want a telephone with some computer elements to it, (iPhone) and I don't want a portable TV with some computer elements to it (iPad). I want a workable, portable tablet computer that I can write on and draw on just as if it was writing and drawing in a paper book (like the ones I've been carrying around since the age of 16 while *waiting* for someone to come up with a portable tablet computer).

I guess my bad attitude comes from wanting this for so many years, and to be so close to getting it, but having Steve jobs just decide by his own self that "people don't want that." I'd bet there are a few million of us out there that *do* want that, but I guess we won't find out for a couple of years because that's how long it usually takes for Steve Jobs to climb off his high horse and reverse a "Steve Decision" like the one he's just made about smaller tablets.

He's right most of the time, but that doesn't mean he can't be wrong, and he's always had a giant stick up his bum about being wrong and admitting it when he is. I'll believe smaller tablets are bad when he comes up with a serious cogent argument as to why they are. What he's said so far is just BS.

IMHO I'd say your desired product is the current iPad. I cannot see why you think a 7" can come close to the usability of a 10". iOS is adapted for the iPhone and iPad for their intended uses (and some cross over obviously) but they are not intended to be serving the same needs. 7" simply fails at both. Or am I misunderstanding your argument and what you want is telephony on the 10" iPad?
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post #103 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corax View Post

Yes the screen is about half in size, but not in powerconsumption of the total device, since it'll rely on the same components, but batteryspace will be around half inside.

Oh I see what you are saying, the constant is all the other stuff and the 50% difference in screen power consumption is not the main factor.
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post #104 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

your colleagues are either useless or lying, both my android handsets outperform both iphone 3gs and iphone 4 in battery life by a handy margin.

maybe its the extra calls they can take because of the improved reception??

Hmm, I'll ask again...have you got a new Android handset? Two of these people have brand new units. I don't remember the names. Again, I'll ask. I am VERY interested in the vast difference in performance.
post #105 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

Hmm, I'll ask again...have you got a new Android handset? Two of these people have brand new units. I don't remember the names. Again, I'll ask. I am VERY interested in the vast difference in performance.

Tell him it is the lack of using their Androids for anything but making calls that helps their battery life. The iPhone users are using the web by a massive percentage more than anyone else according to every pie chart I see.
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post #106 of 345
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Nothing last forever. Congratulations, Socrates.

My late father used to call me Socrates! Usually, after I said something stupid! Made me smile, thx!

PS. I really miss him, especially when my GF is "unhinged!"

Best
post #107 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Oh I see what you are saying, the constant is all the other stuff and the 50% difference in screen power consumption is not the main factor.

Yes, IF the powerusage of the screen is 20% with the 9,7" iPad, 80% being other components, than a 7" would use around 90% (10% less) but have HALF the space for batteries.
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post #108 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Android Phones: outselling iPhones
Windows: outselling OS X

C'mon. Let's not start up with market share. It's a non-winner for Apple except in the MP3 player market.

I'm not talking about market share, I'm talking about bragging rights. RIM doesn't have any so they should button up and focus their efforts on delivering something compelling to consumers.

Side note: Android is sold by at least 10 OEMs with at least 50 handsets in the market and they barely sell more than iPhone. That, in my books, is a big fat fail. All those companies expending all that effort to just barely sell more than one single competitor? Fail! Its not a market share fail, its a strategy fail.
post #109 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

iPad and iPhone have slightly different UI elements and they support different multi touch gestures (take a look at iPad demos to see what is doable there. In particular look at iWork for iPad to see some of the more advanced UI elements and gestures). Some of those would be really hard to execute on a smaller screen, so usability would suffer.

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post #110 of 345
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Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

My late father used to call me Socrates! Usually, after I said something stupid! Made me smile, thx!

PS. I really miss him, especially when my GF is "unhinged!"

Best

My Dad died in 2008. Same boat. Touched me, dude.
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post #111 of 345
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Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I treat this battle the same way I treat my sports teams: I usually pick the one that's 42-4, not 4-42.

Hey leave the Detroit Lions fan alone!
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post #112 of 345
perhaps Steve is badmouthing 7" tablets because they were pre-announced by others and are likely to ship before Apple's 7" table. 7" is a great screen size for a portable web device. A 7" iPad can be significantly lighter and more portable than the current iPad. A high resolution 7" screen would provide sufficient display real estate for basic applications like email, basic web browsing, watching movies and most games.

If Apple is targeting the iPad exclusively toward business applications like word processing, presentations, spreadsheets, etc., Steve may have a point about the current iPad screen being the minimum acceptable display size. However, overall, iPad is mostly a consumer product, and there are many consumer apps (games, web browser and email being the leading ones) that would run perfectly fine with a 7" screen. Many of the iPhone customers are already using these applications on a much smaller screen. Anybody who has used a Kindle can also tell you that 6"-7" is the perfect screen size for an eBook reader, but Apple probably does not care too much about that application.

I think the right screen technology for a 7" iPad is an OLED display with very high (300DPI range) resolution. Maybe Apple is waiting this technology to be commercially viable and they will skip the LCD based technology for the 7" form factor.

The greatest issue for Apple in terms of introducing a 7" iPad is price expectations. Market would expect a price point between the current iPad and the current iPod touch for a 7" iPad and Apple may have decided that it is not possible to achieve sufficient margins at a price point that is lower than the current iPad price. The cost of goods difference between a 7" iPoad and a 10" iPad is likely to be pretty minimal.
post #113 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corax View Post

Yes, IF the powerusage of the screen is 20% with the 9,7" iPad, 80% being other components, than a 7" would use around 90% (10% less) but have HALF the space for batteries.

Ahh... Simple solution...

7" tablet in left labcoat pocket

7" battery pack in right labcoat pocket

USB charger cable interconnecting the two -- across the front


Could, additionally be used to hold a pocket watch...

... Or a plastic clip with a bag of Fritos

There ya' go!

.
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post #114 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

I think it'd be worth seeing - I don't think the problem is touch on 7" - it's probably the visuals which may not be up to the iPad experience at a smaller size. Let's face it they're not touting thr web experience on the iPT so much as gaming.
post #115 of 345
1) Did Apple just jump into the 10” 4:3 tablet willy nilly or did they prototype multiple configurations to see what they felt was actually best?

2) Are RiM and others jumping into the 7” 16:9 tablet because they feel they can’t compete with Apple on the 10” tablet or did they they all make and test multiple prototypes to see what they felt was actually best?

3) Based on RiM’s CEO comments about openness I have to assume that BB OS is an open OS, yet I wasn’t aware of that before today. Which is odd, because I’d think I’d have known if BB OS wasn’t a wall garden.
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post #116 of 345
I'm sorry. I love Apple, but Steve's comments were unnecessary. When you're winning you should remain classy.
post #117 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I kind of wondered where SJ was coming from on that one. If 7" is too small for a touch interface isn't that sort of a problem for an iPhone and iPod Touch as well. I think a 7" iPad would be pretty cool. I hope they'll make one someday.

I think what's really important to take away from this is that Apple is positioning tablets (iPad) separately from iPhones/iPod touches. Two different development channels that developers need to target. Different User interface designs for each.

A 7" tablet isn't a phone-size device and isn't a handier iPad-sized device. It would make the User Interface design guidelines that Apple is trying to clearly define for their devices messier. I think it would feel like a cramped iPad or an overly-spacious iPhone.... and nothing else. I support Apple on this one... at least until they come out with their own 7" device.
post #118 of 345
Looks like the Torch is going up in smoke and current Balckberries are getting a little long in the tooth.

Apple is spanking everyone and provides a guiding light for the industry. The also-rans will naturally chafe at this situation. That's just tough. RIM isn't laying down any new game so Mr. Jim Nobody can only manage a half-hearted, weak response.
post #119 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

What do you expect RIM to say?

"My God! Steve Jobs is RIGHT! We are failures!!"

A man of integrity would learn from Jobs, yeah. But the clowns running Apple's competitors really aren't much of anything. You could make better men out of bananas.
post #120 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corax View Post

Yes, IF the powerusage of the screen is 20% with the 9,7" iPad, 80% being other components, than a 7" would use around 90% (10% less) but have HALF the space for batteries.

So yet another great reason for the larger format! Thanks for explaining.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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  • RIM: Problems with 7-inch tablets only exist in Apple's 'distortion field'
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