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Apple previews Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, bringing iOS features 'Back to the Mac' - Page 4

post #121 of 174
10/20/10 at 3:51pm
Oh yea, and Apple even lists MacUpdate (but for how long?)

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...tedesktop.html
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post #122 of 174
10/20/10 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

What would increase sales is cheaper Macs, not higher software prices.

Yeah, because all the people buying cheap PCs spend a fortune on software and content... Most private PC owners I know do not have a single legally purchased application on their machines...
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post #123 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Yeah, because all the people buying cheap PCs spend a fortune on software and content... Most private PC owners I know do not have a single legally purchased application on their machines...

I don't even know if I should dignify this post with a response, but here we go...

So let me get this straight. You think Mac developers want Apple to sell a few costly machines instead of a lot of cheap ones. I guess that's where Apple went wrong with the iPad. They SHOULD have sold half as many for twice as much, cornering the people-with-more-money-than-sense market!

Yea, that's the ticket!

Seriously, how stupid do you have to make yourself before you can believe your posts?
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post #124 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:08pm
Wow they better include more features or decrease the price, I think I'm more excited about office 2011 at this rate (due to my strong dislike of 2008).
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post #125 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

For apps sold through the Apple Store, the developer gets 70% of a lot. Selling these same apps through their own websites, they got 100% of a little. Oh, pray tell when will Apple stop? Helping developers dramatically increase their earnings. It's downright evil!

He was joking. Didn't you see the Title for his post?
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post #126 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

You missed his point. Most people don't know about mac update. There's already an app store for the mac too, although I can't think of the name right now. A pre installed app store from Apple would be seen by all mac users, allowing developers to reach a broader audience, while still allowing for distribution through other channels.

The app store isn't much better for finding apps either, unless you are top 10 the app is buried somewhere, to be found if you really know about it.
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post #127 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:15pm
The road to the Mac App Store is the natural outcome of the original iPhone (later iPod and iPad) App Store. Think of all the non- or new-Mac users who have been using the iOS App Store for months or years, and are just now getting into the Mac game as a result of the halo effect. These consumers have had this experience and (AFAIK) the number show how popular it is.

Migrating this to the Mac will benefit all users because it will be a nice one-stop shopping area for all those great indie apps that do one or two things very well. As a result I see a huge increase in exposure, and consequently sales for these devs. The only way many of us hear about these apps is through MacUpdate, the various Mac-centric blogs (such as Apple Insider, TUAW, AppStorm), or by seeing them on Apple's Downloads page.

However, the group of people comprising the above set is probably fewer than 20% of all Mac users. How does the other 80% find out about these things? They simply don't. And now along comes a way for these apps to gain a larger audience, which (even at 70%) means greater net income.

The only group I see losing are those who sponsor the periodic bundles (Mac Heist, etc.) because the developers get a very small percentage of the revenue from such bundles.
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post #128 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Yeah, because all the people buying cheap PCs spend a fortune on software and content... Most private PC owners I know do not have a single legally purchased application on their machines...

I am not sure you can blame it on cheap PC's. I know PC users that may not have legally purchased software. They own Mac's too. I am sure they stole for the PC and bought for the more expensive Mac.
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post #129 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

He was joking. Didn't you see the Title for his post?

I might be mistaken, but I believe it is you who missed the reference of his title (that Apple's App Store offer is a joke).
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #130 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

The app store isn't much better for finding apps either, unless you are top 10 the app is buried somewhere, to be found if you really know about it.

+1

I'm also getting a bit tired of the iPhone comparison given that iPhone users have NO CHOICE as to how they find and install apps.

The only meaningful comparisons are policy ones, like app rejection (not to mention ex post rejection), annual fees, lack of promotion in the fees, and lots of apps that never get any notice until the developer spends MORE of his time and money to advertise. Considering the HASSLE Apple makes you go through as a DEVELOPER, the fees are laughable. Apple developers already have to deal with enough hassle as it is without having to compete against an app store.

It all starts to make brick and mortar software boxing sound like a bargain in comparison. What, we pay 50% AND they promote the product? Where so I sign up?

It would be great if Apple's aim was to promote Mac software and not try to corner the Mac software retail market for a few more $$$ in the short term. I'm not saying they should do it for free (although it may benefit them to do so!) but 30%? 7% would be reasonable even given the burden of their policies.

Any Mac developer who has already setup a payment system will be shaking their head. Who is this designed for again?

If anyone here is looking forward to paying Apple 30% of their revenues, please chime in. I'm all ears!
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post #131 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

I don't even know if I should dignify this post with a response, but here we go...

So let me get this straight. You think Mac developers want Apple to sell a few costly machines instead of a lot of cheap ones. I guess that's where Apple went wrong with the iPad. They SHOULD have sold half as many for twice as much, cornering the people-with-more-money-than-sense market!

Yea, that's the ticket!

Seriously, how stupid do you have to make yourself before you can believe your posts?

No, I think developers (no matter for which platform) should not bother with hardware pricing. If they do not like it, they should make hardware.

You made the case that people would spend more money on software, if the hardware was cheaper. And you question my logic? You are sure funny.

Yes sure. People buying $10 MP3 players buy more records than people buying iPods. People buying 17" HP laptops weighing 8-10 lbs costing $650 max. will spend big time for software packages... Needless to say: this is bunk.

I do not know your Web site and sales channels, but they would have to be exceptional to get anywhere close to the reputation that Apple enjoys. People who happily enter their credit card data into something operated by Apple, might choose otherwise, if the site is operated by a nobody (not meant offensively), actually they have more than 130 million active users with credit card data on file. People do impulse buys on the Apple stores, because there is a general amount of trust. Heck, people even buy third party stuff on the Apple store for sometimes 10-20% more than the average retail price and still feel happy about it. Does this always make sense? No, it does not. But that's reality. Being able to participate is a good thing, and every developer with some business sense will.
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post #132 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:46pm
Awesome... desktop icons and the equivalent of a start menu! It's like Windows 95 only more modern looking!
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post #133 of 174
10/20/10 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

I am not sure you can blame it on cheap PC's. I know PC users that may not have legally purchased software. They own Mac's too. I am sure they stole for the PC and bought for the more expensive Mac.

You are right, and I did not really "blame" the cheap PCs, this would make little sense, or even be arrogant: there are people who simply could not afford a Mac, or a better PC. I guess what I meant was people being in the position to afford a lot of things, but being cheap, or not willing to appreciate other people's work enough to pay for it.

I do have some friends who do shareware for both (Mac and PC) and their experiences are interesting: while the software downloads are roughly 80:20 (in favor of the PC), the registration (payment) ratio is more like 5:95... and their software is not refusing to work after the trial period, so it should be fair to assume that quite some PC users are continuing to use the software without paying. Mac users (at large) seem to have a different mindset...
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post #134 of 174
10/20/10 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

You made the case that people would spend more money on software, if the hardware was cheaper. And you question my logic? You are sure funny.

No, I said more people would buy Macs. Nice try trying to twist my words, though.
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post #135 of 174
10/20/10 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubRes79 View Post

Exactly.. it's nerve wracking to know that a room full of people, plus millions online, are watching you demo something.

Which is more frightening: giving a presentation in front of millions of people, or giving a presentation in front of Steve Jobs?

Quote:
An Apple employee told Valleywag what it's like to work with Steve roaming the halls:

"No one greets him or says hi to him. Low ranking employees are afraid of him. I remember him walking around the campus one time and groups of people in his way would just split and let him walk through."

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...-return-2009-8
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post #136 of 174
10/20/10 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

For apps sold through the Apple Store, the developer gets 70% of a lot. Selling these same apps through their own websites, they got 100% of a little. Oh, pray tell when will Apple stop? Helping developers dramatically increase their earnings. It's downright evil!

What's so pathetic is Apple is offering more choice on how to get apps on your Mac and these chicken littles are running around like the sky is falling.

Some people are so allergic to change or advancement it's amazing the human race was able to exit the dark ages (but explains why we had a dark ages in the first place).
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post #137 of 174
10/20/10 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

It's not a problem. Apps are cumbersome. One app for every platform. The future is web based apps. The whole apple wall garden will come tumbling down then.

Not gonna happen.

This same argument was trotted out in the mid 90's when the web first spawned. It hasn't happened so far and it won't happen any time soon.

The web is the equivalent of the VT100 terminal compared to where modern applications are. There are tons of things that work work well on the web, but just as many if not more that don't.

Reliance on technologies like flash just underscore how immature and incomplete the web is and why native applications are in no danger of being replaced on any platform any time soon.
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post #138 of 174
10/20/10 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

It seems they have again missed to provide a "try before you buy" mechanism... Without that, expensive software will be a non-starter on this platform for a lot of people.

I hope not. This is one huge thing Microsoft got right with the Arcade on Xbox live - every app in the arcade must have a demo version.

Frankly I'm shocked Apple has taken this long to address it in the iOS - hopefully they will address it before shipping the Mac OSX app store...
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post #139 of 174
10/21/10 at 1:14am
Having also recently purchased a second screen to use with my MacBook I would be curious to see how the full screen thing will work in that context.

When I maximise does it maximise on the current screen, or the primary display. When I enter Mission Control, how do I flick between running full screen apps? What if I have (if it happens to work out this way) a full screen app on my Dell display (sorry I said it) and another on my notebook LCD.

If they don't do this right, it could get messy.
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post #140 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Mac App Store = NOT THE ONLY WY TO GET APPS ON
THE MAC!!!!!

Why not?
It is great to know that there is only one place to look for software.

And because it would be curated, only GREAT software would be available. Nobody would be able to ruin their User Experience.

As of now, lousy software can be installed, and everybody is bothering Apple Care and wasting Apple's money. Everybody thinks that their Mac is no good, but in reality, it is all the lousy software.

The User Experience is too important to allow users to install any old crap they want, willy nilly. We need an App Store to cure all the horrible problems caused by software not sold by Apple.

It works GREAT with iOS. It would be MUCH BETTER with OS X.
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post #141 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

Likely you don't realize it, but Apple gives Billions of Dollars to developers from the App Store. The App Store model has allowed the finest developers to quickly rise to the top, each one making literally millions of dollars.

If you don't think you can compete in an App Store environment, then develop for Android. HA!
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post #142 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

At no point did he say that the Mac App Store is the only way to install software on Lion. This is an addition to normal outlets.

I sure hope that they stop allowing users to muck up their machines with non-approved software. Think of all the calls that AppleCare gets just because some Bozo thinks he can install just any old software on Apple's machines.

Hey! My fan's running top speed and the laptop is too hot to sit on my lap!

Did you install any unapproved software?

Well, just Adobe Flash...
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post #143 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post


Interesting to see whether steve and his cronies let utorrent and flash be distributed through the app store though.

I sure hope not. Those sorts of things need to be curated.
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post #144 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Six months after Mac app store hits there will be more software available for the Mac than any other platform. .


So if more titles are available for 9% of the market than are available for 90% of the market, how will the developers make any money?

Think about it.

Naw. I think that the big software companies will continue to develop for the popular platfoms.

And if the little guys working on their kitchen tables all throw into the MacStore, none of them will make any money.

The only way would be for someone to either make an exclusive app (not bloody likely if more titles are avialable for the Mac than for Windows) or for there to be a proportionate number of titles, given the tiny number of Macs in the wild.
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post #145 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Web is a long way from running real applications.

Bullshit. Google Maps works GREAT.

There are many many great apps on the 'web.
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post #146 of 174
10/21/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post


If you can get my app in front of 50 million Mac owners,

But that ain't gonna happen. Not with the lousy search capabilities at the App Store. Apps get lost and rarely seen by anybody. Many apps make no money. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

So far from Apple's store being a road to riches, it may be a road to obscurity too.
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post #147 of 174
10/21/10 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

70/30 revenue split?! Is Apple nuts?

Yea, I can see reams of Mac developers signing up for that shit.

Listing on MacUpdate $0, App Store, 30% of your revenues.

I smell a flop

But if it is the ONLY way to sell Mac software, your comments become irrelevant. It sucks that Apple doesn't get any revenue from these developers. If not for Apple, they wouldn't even have such a great platform to write for.

So Apple sees all this software profit, made possible by Apple, and don't you think that they deserve their rightful cut?

Why should developers be allowed to profit, at Apple's expense, on Apple's machines? Why are they allowed to sell their terrible uncurated junk to unsuspecting Apple Customers?

That is so, like, Windows! Mac users need the security of a curated App Store where they can find every single title available for their Mac. No more searching around and mucking around with uncurated junk!
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post #148 of 174
10/21/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

But if it is the ONLY way to sell Mac software, your comments become irrelevant. It sucks that Apple doesn't get any revenue from these developers. If not for Apple, they wouldn't even have such a great platform to write for.

So Apple sees all this software profit, made possible by Apple, and don't you think that they deserve their rightful cut?

Why should developers be allowed to profit, at Apple's expense, on Apple's machines? Why are they allowed to sell their terrible uncurated junk to unsuspecting Apple Customers?

That is so, like, Windows! Mac users need the security of a curated App Store where they can find every single title available for their Mac. No more searching around and mucking around with uncurated junk!

Love the satire, but unfortunately some moron probably thinks this way.
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post #149 of 174
10/21/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

He (and touch monitor critics) aren't saying anything about standing. The ergonomic issue is about reaching out with your arm horizontally for extended periods.

If such an ergonomic "issue" exists, then why did Jony design the keyboard dock for the iPad?

Are you claiming that this is a bad ergonomic design? If so, then you are claiming that Apple currently sells and promotes bad ergonomic designs. I don't see any way around it.




Somehow, I think Jony and Steve still do OK with ergonomics?
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post #150 of 174
10/21/10 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

The main difference is that Mac software will come with a 30% tax. The only question is whether end users will pay it with higher prices, or developers will just give up a third of their bread so Steve can get fat.

.

I would expect a similar phenomenon to happen as is current with the App Store: a plethora of "me-too" apps which quickly race to the bottom, price-wise.

There will be a few titles that might command current prices, much as there are a handful of regular-priced apps in the App Store. But the vast majority of titles will compete on price.

And instead of getting only a small piece of the Mac software pie, Apple will get 30% Plus.
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post #151 of 174
10/23/10 at 10:17am
Due to mac app store economics

Mac will beat pc in gaming.
Imagine hundreds of High quality games available
for direct download for price of 0.99$ to 10$

This is big really really big. No wonder apple is
rushing major release of OSX after snow leopard.
Especially release of mac app store.

It is best thing that could happen to computer gamers
and game developers
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post #152 of 174
10/23/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakeroat View Post

This is big really really big. No wonder apple is
rushing major release of OSX after snow leopard.
Especially release of mac app store.

1) Note that the Mac App Store will be on Snow Leopard, too, and will be out at least a half year before Lion hits stores, based on their self-imposed time frames.

2) Im not sure I call this is a rush. Itll be two years between the release of SL and Lion. On top of that, it appears they are doing a tik/tok method like Intel does with its CPUs. SL was a complete overhaul of the foundation of Mac OS X with minor UI alterations, while Lion seems mostly like UI changes. I like this plan as it allows them to focus on one area, thus reducing potential issues, speeding up testing and getting the appearance of a major update out faster now that Mac OS X has matured. Jobs stated many years ago that Mac OS X would slow down, and this would be a way to prevent 3-4 years between updates with 2 years in beta testing. I wonder if the 10.8 will be Mountain Lion.
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post #153 of 174
10/26/10 at 10:54am
Those features are not very big ones. When are they going to update the look and feel of the OS?
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post #154 of 174
10/26/10 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzomedici View Post

Those features are not very big ones. When are they going to update the look and feel of the OS?

I would call the muted tones and context aware scroll bars exactly that.
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post #155 of 174
10/27/10 at 11:34am
Does 10.7 have Resolution Independence? I would think with the tiny yet hi-res MacBook Air 11 it would be downright necessary. I'd probably even ratchet the UI up a notch on my Hi Res MBP.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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post #156 of 174
10/27/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Does 10.7 have Resolution Independence? I would think with the tiny yet hi-res MacBook Air 11 it would be downright necessary. I'd probably even ratchet the UI up a notch on my Hi Res MBP.

I can't find any info on that. You'd think Apple would have at least mentioned it like they did years ago if they were hellbent on including it on what looks to be mostly a visual OS change.

As for the new MBA resolutions, they are inline with the high-res versions of the 15" and 17" MBPs, about 135ppi. So still within reason without needing RI, but I don't think we can go higher unless they add RI or an intermediate layer like Windows has.
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post #157 of 174
10/27/10 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I can't find any info on that. You'd think Apple would have at least mentioned it like they did years ago if they were hellbent on including it on what looks to be mostly a visual OS change.

As for the new MBA resolutions, they are inline with the high-res versions of the 15" and 17" MBPs, about 135ppi. So still within reason without needing RI, but I don't think we can go higher unless they add RI or an intermediate layer like Windows has.

Good point, same density roughly. Even with my MBP hi res I zoom in web pages with Safari though. I need and like the high-res for the maximal screen real estate when I need it though. I agree I am surprised they did not mention it. My guess is if they were going to include it they would've mentioned it, even as a quick bullet point, since it would be such a great improvement to the UI. So I am guessing it will not make the cut again, perhaps by 10.8.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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post #158 of 174
10/29/10 at 9:30am
Hope Lion includes a file system optimized for SSD, snapshotting, online volume resizing(appending added storage to a current volume).

Name it iFS.
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post #159 of 174
10/30/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Hope Lion includes a file system optimized for SSD, snapshotting, online volume resizing(appending added storage to a current volume).

Name it iFS.

Sounds sweet. It definitely needs TRIM. Unless Apple is shipping GC on their MBA SSDs. Write support for NTFS and FTP, too.

Hope it's still $29!
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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post #160 of 174
11/4/10 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

For apps sold through the Apple Store, the developer gets 70% of a lot. Selling these same apps through their own websites, they got 100% of a little. Oh, pray tell when will Apple stop? Helping developers dramatically increase their earnings. It's downright evil!

Man. Thats harsh, Apple. Why help developers make more money then they could on their own? *sarcasm* I guess some people are more Republican, only the rich can make money, everyone else fights for themselves. I mean, imagine how Opera, or other smaller companies can do with a Mac Store? This has been a dream of mine for a long, long time. I for one was excited when Steam came out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I knew we'd get a Mac App Store. I even e-mailed Jobs about it when the iPhone App Store first came out. But then I saw Steve e-mail replies to people saying it wasn't coming. He must have come round.

I got my fullscreen button, ha!

Yep, I saw a OS Store coming through official channels. I just didn't know who would do it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

Wow, Full Screen Apps! That is amazing, revolutionary! Nothing at all like Maximize on a PC. /sarcasm

This has been my number one complaint about macs since I switched a decade ago....and I have to wait until Summer until I get it....bummer. But still happy it is finally here...

Now if they could natively have the menu bar on multiple monitors.....

I actually don't like the full screen feature. Ever since I switched, using the Mac style seems better to me. I don't know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakeroat View Post

Due to mac app store economics

Mac will beat pc in gaming.
Imagine hundreds of High quality games available
for direct download for price of 0.99$ to 10$

This is big really really big. No wonder apple is
rushing major release of OSX after snow leopard.
Especially release of mac app store.

It is best thing that could happen to computer gamers
and game developers

Mac will never, ever beat Windows in gaming. Steam is available on Windows and Mac, plus MS IS MAKING a Windows Store themselves, assuming the newly leaked doc's are to believed. So Windows users will be able to download app's through a store. Might have to wait to 2012 if they have to wait for Windows 8. But if I was MS I would launch it next Summer.
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