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Apple previews Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, bringing iOS features 'Back to the Mac' - Page 2

post #41 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:51am
To all the "developer" trolls that magically appeared. So with your awesome apps, which I am sure you all just pump out, I am guessing not only electronic download versions but DVD shelf versions all well, you get very limited "traffic" to your app, with the Mac App store you will have EVERY Mac user looking at your awesome great wonderful app, it's like having 2 person foot traffic at your store one day and then 30 million people the next and you are bitching about what? At least think about what you are going to troll in the future, you make the most retarded complaints.
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post #42 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:53am
WOW Lion is boring. What a disappointment.
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post #43 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

1. You do not have to, you can. If you look closely, you might find other things in this world which are not for you.
2. Of course, I do not know your product, or how much revenue it creates. But if you can advertise it to millions of Mac users (the most targeted advertising you can get), plus cover hosting and credit card transactions (or paying for services like eSellerate et al) for less than 30% of your current revenue, then you must be in an excellent position and your product might be well-known enough, so it does not need to be on this store at all.

I do only write in-house software, but from what they have shown, I would see a different critical point. It seems they have again missed to provide a "try before you buy" mechanism... Without that, expensive software will be a non-starter on this platform for a lot of people.
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post #44 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

No because this isn't a required program. So if you opt not to use it, fine.

but there are some developers that want a unified place for folks to find their products and don't mind paying a little for it.
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post #45 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

Wow, Full Screen Apps! That is amazing, revolutionary! Nothing at all like Maximize on a PC. /sarcasm

This has been my number one complaint about macs since I switched a decade ago....and I have to wait until Summer until I get it....bummer. But still happy it is finally here...

Now if they could natively have the menu bar on multiple monitors.....

.... Except in Windows all you get is a bigger window, not a different interface

A whole world of difference

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #46 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

You don't have to sell your sh!t on the app store you don't want to pony up 30% to Apple. Sell it independently and Goodluck spending more money marketing your sh!t.
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post #47 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:55am
To those who fear Apple is spending all their brain cycles on iDevices, here is your proof. All the new Mac features are ported from iDevices! With the one notable exception being iLife which deserves a big round of applause.

But just because the features are ported from iDevices doesn't mean they aren't good, I think the Mac App Store will be great.
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post #48 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:55am
I'm assuming that since Launch Pad exists that the Dock is going bye bye or will take the form of the iOS dock.
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post #49 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Mate, you f**ing called it spot on... DUH-AMMNN DUDE

Only thing is, it won't do it all the time, thus potentially adding more confusion.

Indeed. Sometimes the window will change size, other times it'll fill the desktop- and now it might fill the screen!
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post #50 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

You do not get it. Let's say you make $1,000 a month and get 100% of profit and now you sell via Mac apps store and make $2,000 and have to give 30% away, which option would you take.

Not only will you make more overall but you will have to devote far less time to the management of distribution. In effect you have more time to work on code and construtive customer interaction.

I'm still of the opinion that if your app has any value at all app store on the Mac will be a big win. As a business it is your responsibility to find the proper price point. In the end it should be a gravy train.
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post #51 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

It's not a problem. Apps are cumbersome. One app for every platform. The future is web based apps. The whole apple wall garden will come tumbling down then.

Interesting to see whether steve and his cronies let utorrent and flash be distributed through the app store though.

If you have ever developed a web app you wouldn't say that. They are fine for simple things if you want to put at least four times the work in to it. You could have targeted four platforms with the same effort. Makes sense for some things though, but it doesn't scale. Web is a long way from running real applications. Maybe in HTML9.
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post #52 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

WOW Lion is boring. What a disappointment.

Hm, I really think this was mainly to show the new application store and get submissions rolling, and secondly to alert developers to make their desktop apps full screen ready, if they want to. They will not present everything they have in the pipeline some 9 months in advance... not with so many companies copying everything they do.
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post #53 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

I agree. The Lion demo was a botch. There is no new tech, just cosmetics. I expected to have some more technical details : kernel, cocoa evolutions, CPU/GPU blending, 64-bit for all Mac capable computers, etc. Very disappointing. Maybe developers will get more infos

This was a media/consumer conference. That kind of info is only relevent to developers, you'll see it at the next developer conference.

Also, snow leopard was ONLY under hood improvements. They need to show cosmetic changes to keep users (consumers, you know, where the money comes from) happy.
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post #54 of 174
10/20/10 at 11:59am
While the new features look good for people buying a new Macbook Air or with a Laptop, it's a shame they didn't show off any features that will appeal to the guy with the iMac. They're just making the Mac more 'iOS friendly'. Good idea for the mass market, should be more to it than that though. Hope they manage to unify the UI also.

Macbook Air looks all kinds of awesome though.
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post #55 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

Is this guy trolling or just being downright ignorant?

In the smallest chance he's serious, where is it mentioned that you even have to publish all Mac software through the App store? They handle all the merchant logistics including credit-card processing, hosting, app-store space, bandwidth, etc... all that costs money and frankly, asking for a 30% cut is a steal compared to how much of a headache it would be to do it all yourself. You can still publish mac software the old fashioned way too. So quit your whining.
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post #56 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

You do not get it. Let's say you make $1,000 a month and get 100% of profit

no one makes 100% profit. There's marketing costs, etc. I'd hazard a guess that many folks only make about 80% profit on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

The BIG software companies already have mind-share. So they won't be happy with the iStore.

Why, because they don't have to use this optional program for selling their product. or because they fear their mind share isn't actually big enough to take on Joe Schmo selling his Illustrator competitor in the big bad Mac App Store.
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post #57 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

Do you idiots not understand how retail product distribution works?

If you can get my app in front of 50 million Mac owners, and handle application delivery AND payment processing

I will GLADLY give you 30% of the action.
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post #58 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

If you plan to use Apple's App Store then yes there should be a fee; however, posting your app on Apple's store will save you a bundle in marketing, hosting your own ecommerce site, CC transactions, site security certification, accounting, and a whole butt load of stuff. I ran an ecommerce site for years and it's a lot of work. I would've happily paid Apple or any other company the money to handle many of the mundane tasks, and have my app posted on Apple's site!!! It's a big deal to have your app there right now.

Having said that, Apple will not limit Mac apps to the store, but it will be better to have your app there and access a larger client base.

Ron Paul

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Ron Paul

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post #59 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:09pm
Guidelines for getting apps ready for App Store up on Apple's dev site.
http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/mac/checklist/

Interesting. It was there a minute ago, now it's not.

I wonder if they'll put iAds in there too?

- Jasen.
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post #60 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

Well you can keep spending your own money on marketing and sell directly OR use the app store. What is your current client potential market? What will the apps store potential market be? You do the math!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #61 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

This was a media/consumer conference. That kind of info is only relevent to developers, you'll see it at the next developer conference.

Also, snow leopard was ONLY under hood improvements. They need to show cosmetic changes to keep users (consumers, you know, where the money comes from) happy.

You certainly are right, though Steve might have give us a brief glimpse of what was going on underneath. After all, even amidst the "normal" users, there are some curious geeks

I am also disappointed to see no iWork upgrade. They said Microsoft had made a gorgeous product with the new Office for the Mac, but didn't tell us how they will catch up.
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post #62 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

WOW Lion is boring. What a disappointment.

Ha ha funny. That was the way the editor at PC World described the iPad at launch ... boring, disappointment and underwhelming and nothing new and will be swamped by the other tablets.

I am guessing these talking points are prepared at MS and Google in advance of even seeing Apple products and distributed to the anti apple diehards.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #63 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:19pm
LoL @ demonstrating app folders on the Mac.
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post #64 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

You certainly are right, though Steve might have give us a brief glimpse of what was going on underneath. After all, even amidst the "normal" users, there are some curious geeks…

I am also disappointed to see no iWork upgrade. They said Microsoft had made a gorgeous product with the new Office for the Mac, but didn't tell us how they will catch up.

My bet is iWorks and possibly iWeb will get updates later in the year or early next year.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #65 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

You certainly are right, though Steve might have give us a brief glimpse of what was going on underneath. After all, even amidst the "normal" users, there are some curious geeks

I am also disappointed to see no iWork upgrade. They said Microsoft had made a gorgeous product with the new Office for the Mac, but didn't tell us how they will catch up.

Well, as one of those curious geeks, I agree it'd be nice, but it's completely not apple's style. Plus, they could still change their minds on what all gets full support. Remember when full zfs read and write was gonna ship with snow leopard?

As for iWork, im baffled they can stay on top of what they offer. Right now they just released one completely new product this year, redesigned apple tv from the ground up, vastly improved their long standing products and are promising to give us a new OS at the same time as a new iOS and new iPhone. Really, how much effort could iWork have seen yet, it prolly woulda been a sloppy upgrade.
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post #66 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

No because this isn't a required program. So if you opt not to use it, fine.

but there are some developers that want a unified place for folks to find their products and don't mind paying a little for it.

Any Mac developer who doesn't like this is missing the forest for the trees.

Just the following simple fact should have their mouths watering.

100 mn. credit cards can now purchase your app with one click. The many millions of dollars spent on iTunes gift cards every year can now be used to buy your app.
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post #67 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Hm, I really think this was mainly to show the new application store and get submissions rolling, and secondly to alert developers to make their desktop apps full screen ready, if they want to. They will not present everything they have in the pipeline some 9 months in advance... not with so many companies copying everything they do.

++++

The real Lion will come out at the January 2011 event, after the holidays.

The point of this was twofold:

1) Get developers ready to submit their apps to the Apple Store, so they can hopefully reap the benefits of the millions of dollars of iTunes gift cards given away during Christmas (and used in the month after Christmas).

2) Release the new Macbook Airs, and see millions of these being sold during the upcoming holiday season.
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post #68 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Mac App Store = NOT THE ONLY WY TO GET APPS ON
THE MAC!!!!!

For now...
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post #69 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

LoL @ demonstrating app folders on the Mac.

Now that you point it out, thats hilarious...
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post #70 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

For apps sold through the Apple Store, the developer gets 70% of a lot. Selling these same apps through their own websites, they got 100% of a little. Oh, pray tell when will Apple stop? Helping developers dramatically increase their earnings. It's downright evil!

For a small time developer this will help get their apps in the spotlight. The cost of a domain name, merchandising, etc etc will no longer be a factor. Again for small time developers this will be a nice way to get their apps distributed!
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post #71 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:37pm
You better polish Folders before you drag that crap thru everywhere, Apple.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #72 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

I agree. The Lion demo was a botch. There is no new tech, just cosmetics. I expected to have some more technical details : kernel, cocoa evolutions, CPU/GPU blending, 64-bit for all Mac capable computers, etc. Very disappointing. Maybe developers will get more infos

It was a press event, not a developer conference. I didn't really expect them to offer anything but eye candy today.
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post #73 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

Well, as one of those curious geeks, I agree it'd be nice, but it's completely not apple's style. Plus, they could still change their minds on what all gets full support. Remember when full zfs read and write was gonna ship with snow leopard?

Yes. I wonder what would have happened, should they have completed this task, with Sun being now under Oracle's sway.

Quote:
As for iWork, im baffled they can stay on top of what they offer. Right now they just released one completely new product this year, redesigned apple tv from the ground up, vastly improved their long standing products and are promising to give us a new OS at the same time as a new iOS and new iPhone. Really, how much effort could iWork have seen yet, it prolly woulda been a sloppy upgrade.

Well, I guess there's nothing much to do except wait and hope it won't be too long now. To be blindly optimistic, I'd say we've never been so close to the future update!
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post #74 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post
That's the problem. Lose 30% of your income, or be left behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

You do not get it. Let's say you make $1,000 a month and get 100% of profit and now you sell via Mac apps store and make $2,000 and have to give 30% away, which option would you take.

Precisely, and neither option infringes on his right to whine.
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post #75 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

Only the joke is on you because you didn't read the whole thing that said it was optional for the developer. No walled garden. But as a panicky newbie you look good with egg on your face.

So how much do you pay for bandwidth? Hosting? Storefront software or service? Packaging development? Boxing? Elaborate licensing schemes? Wholesale discount? Institutional time to do all that stuff, plus the all the other stuff related to distribution I didn't list?

I'm sure you already are a paid dev, so you won't have to add anything there, now how much per sale is all the above costing your company? Do the math and decide if 30% off the retail shelf price brings you out ahead compared to what you get from the wholesale distribution price. If so, stop complaining and sign up. If you are one of the rare devs who have all that suitcased and efficient with an existing healthy distribution network, just keep doing what you are doing, there is nothing here for you.
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post #76 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:48pm
70/30 revenue split?! Is Apple nuts?

Yea, I can see reams of Mac developers signing up for that shit.

Listing on MacUpdate $0, App Store, 30% of your revenues.

I smell a flop
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post #77 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:54pm
the Lion demos showed some multitouch UI controlling, but couldn't tell if everything will become multi-touchable, like pull down menus are on iPad. too soon to show many things of course. presumably the beta will be released at WWDC in January, with a lot more Lion preview then.
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post #78 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Any Mac developer who doesn't like this is missing the forest for the trees.


The people you see whining aren't 'real' developers, just ignore them.
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post #79 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

BThe ability to find all (most) apps in one place, and to manage these apps (updates) is sure to benefit both end users and developers. The price of apps will probably drop yet developers should see at least as much money (at least as when the apps are sold through brick and mortar stores). I am also willing to bet that app sales will shoot up as a result of the app store. Maybe not heavy expensive apps like Adobe, MS and the like, but all the small great apps that aren't always easy to find out there in the wild.

Yes, I completely agree. As soon as I used the App Store on my iPod Touch and then iPhone, I was wishing for the same for the Mac. This will sell more apps, bring in more money for developers (and Apple), and provide a great service to end-users. Even if Mac developers keep the price of their apps the same but give 30% to Apple, they will most-likely bring in more $$ by benefiting in potentially increased visibility ("free" advertising) and distribution savings while reaping the benefits of a slick and convenient purchase and upgrade interface for their end-users.

For most developers, this will be a win-win solution. I only wish I were a Mac developer today! This is a GREAT opportunity!
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post #80 of 174
10/20/10 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.

OMFG, nightmare man, they are all out to get your money.

Of course you could just continue to sell your software through the internet like everyone else does at the moment.

Not all game devs sell their games through Steam and not all Mac developers will sell through the Mac App store.

Take a chill pill and stop being so alarmist. (OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS IS A POOR ATTEMPT AT A TROLL)
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