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Apple unveils new, instant-on MacBook Air: 'MacBook meets iPad' - Page 7

post #241 of 356
10/20/10 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Not to mention you can carry extra batteries

If you actually carry an extra battery, I guess that's an issue for you. My guess is 99% of people don't.
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post #242 of 356
10/20/10 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Not a bad computer, but it is 3 pounds, just a bit more than the Air. Plus you have to use Windows!

11" Air is 1.06kg.
13" Air is 1.32kg.

R700 is 13" and starts at 1.1kg (I'd expect it do be i3 model with SSD). I had one in my hands on Toshiba promotion and it feels reasonably robust, though I wouldn't expect it to feel as robust as unibody Macs; I personally don't care, though I accept some people do. There are also some shiny plastic parts (screen fringes covers, touchpad buttons) I didn't care much about but can live with. Also screen quality on R700 is only average.

But you do get decent specs for a price and weight is only 40g more that 11" Air. Like I said, if you don't care about OS (or actually prefer Windows - and believe or not, there's still a "handful" of people out there who do ), you will agree it looks like a good offer.

For OSX-only users, I think that both Airs are good choice for ultra-portable secondary computer. Even price doesn't feel that harsh, considering SSD. Sony Vaio X starts from $1,299 for significantly more modest (albeit a bit lighter) specs.
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post #243 of 356
10/20/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Not to mention you can carry extra batteries

But I wonder, how often will someone find themselves without access to a power outlet for more than 6 hours?
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #244 of 356
10/20/10 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

If you actually carry an extra battery, I guess that's an issue for you. My guess is 99% of people don't.

So sue me, sometimes 7 hours isn't enough! Plus I doubt you get 5-7 hours playing HD movies.

Apple has already eliminated hypermac's product, so if you need more capacity you're SOL with MacBooks.
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post #245 of 356
10/20/10 at 8:16pm
A great engineering feat.


Can't figure out any reason to have one.

I pass.
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post #246 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:24pm
I was really, really tempted to buy the 11.6'' MacBook Air, until I read that it no longer has a backlit keyboard. Is this true? If so, it's a huge step backward.
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post #247 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

APPLE MADE A NETBOOK!!!!!



(Underpowered, little memory, low battery life.....)

There's a difference between ultraportable and netbook.
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #248 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

LOL. Look up "phenomenon" in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of the iPad and Apple is sitting comfortably in the driver's seat.

I hope you aren't implying the iPad has outsold netbooks combined, because nothing could be further from the truth. Both are niche products, but I still find the iPad completely useless, whereas I could sort of see some usage for a netbook.
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post #249 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Anyone notice that the Windows Phone 7 reviews are going up today? Interesting coincidence? Apple dominates the news all day when Microsoft desperately needs the attention.

Hardly. I've yet to see a single tech site that isn't in bed with Apple that really cares all that much about the updated Air models and yet-to-be-released OS.

In fact, most of Apple's customers (read: those who do nothing more than e-mail and web browser on their notebooks) probably have no clue that new products were released today.
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post #250 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It's not.

It's not a netbook, because according to Steve Jobs, Apple doesn't know how to make a netbook that isn't junk.

That said, the Air has specs that are much better than your typical netbook.
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post #251 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

It's not a netbook, because according to Steve Jobs, Apple doesn't know how to make a netbook that isn't junk.

That said, the Air has specs that are much better than your typical netbook.

Considering that it was Intels creation of the Atom CPU that made the netbook-class machine possible, I would classify any such notebook as a netbook based on that criteria along. Since the 11.6 MBA uses a 10W TDP Core2Duo (BTW, a CPU that costs more by itself than many netbooks) I would classify it as ultraportable, a device category that came to be after Intel brushed off the dust and put into production (presumably at Apples request) their Small Form Factor Core2 chips.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #252 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:43pm
I'm curious what the reasoning was behind taking away the backlit keyboard. Could the optics necessary to make the keyboard light up not fit into the enclosure or something? Or, will be the "most requested feature" on the first revision model?
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post #253 of 356
10/20/10 at 9:53pm
Folks comment about the lack of storage space, but as long as you buy the larger version with the SD slot, you have a lot of added expansion options. True, the speed might be slightly slower in some cases, but the fact that AVCHD cameras can record HD video without dropping frames gives hope that this storage is adequate for many folks. They don't mention as to if the slot supports SDXC cards, but if they do, they can go up to 2 terabytes of storage. A 64 GB version sells for around $300 (prices will drop rapidly as adoption grows; throughput is 15mb/s. Not perfect, but adequate for an awful lot of uses. Here's hoping though that they don't have the SD card hang out of the chassis like they do with all of their other implementations, but I'm not hopeful. Come on - I've got a small Toshiba netbook in my largely mac household (mac since 1992), and they've figured out how to have the SD card slot accept the ENTIRE card rather than risk being broken off.
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post #254 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:11pm
Two finally's in this:

1) Finally - I can replace my 12" PowerBook G4 with the new 11" - woot!

2) Finally - some manufacturer had the guts to ditch the @^&$#! SATA layer and integrate flash directly with the computer. Chopping out that extra layer of abstraction should speed things up considerably. I can't wait to get my hands on one and do some testing.

I'm not surprised that Apple was the first to move away from SATA. I'm surprised SATA finally displaced IDE - took long enough. Then again some PC's still ship with floppies and legacy PS/2, serial or parallel ports...

I'm also blown away by the price - about $500 cheaper than I expected such machines to be priced. With my corporate discount the faster 11" unit with 4 gigs of RAM and the 128GB capacity is $1350 - woot!
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post #255 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Two finally's in this:

1) Finally - I can replace my 12" PowerBook G4 with the new 11" - woot!

2) Finally - some manufacturer had the guts to ditch the @^&$#! SATA layer and integrate flash directly with the computer. Chopping out that extra layer of abstraction should speed things up considerably. I can't wait to get my hands on one and do some testing.

I'm not surprised that Apple was the first to move away from SATA. I'm surprised SATA finally displaced IDE - took long enough. Then again some PC's still ship with floppies and legacy PS/2, serial or parallel ports...

I'm also blown away by the price - about $500 cheaper than I expected such machines to be priced. With my corporate discount the faster 11" unit with 4 gigs of RAM and the 128GB capacity is $1350 - woot!

1) The 16:9 and 5 hour battery is a deal breaker for me. Heck the 7 hours on the 13 is a deal breaker for me.

2) Is the storage based on mini-PCIe or SATA or something else?

3) What do comparable vendors charge for these machines? I did a quick search for a 11.6 ultra-portable but didnt find anything really close to this MBA.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #256 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

he only thing i wish they would address, is the ability to sync or at least view files (Primarily via iTunes) back to your primary device.

Yup, it would be nice if notebooks could be treated like iPods...

Oh well, in the meantime check out SuperSync. I picked up 10 computer licenses in one of the recent bundle deals - it wasn't even one of the apps I originally picked the bundle up for, but is now the one I use the most. It's pretty flexible, if not a little weird in the UI department - takes a while to get used to. The functionality in SuperSync should be built into iTunes - until it is, it's a great product that I find indispensable.
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post #257 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Did you upgrade your current notebook's hard drive to a larger capacity?

Yes I did - but it's not as relevant on an Air since it's a supplemental computer (well, for most of us) and not a primary workstation.

128GB should be plenty for how these machines are typically used.
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post #258 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post

the use of the integrated GPU is optional. i'm typing this post on a notebook equipped with a Core i5 and nVidia 310M.

And an extra interface chip aside from the discrete nVidia graphics chip that Apple simply doesn't have room for inside of the Air.

Frankly all this consternation over CPU speed is amusing - what are people going to do on an Air class machine that they need all this CPU power for? Encoding video? Final Cut Pro editing?

The CPU hasn't been the bottleneck for 90% of what people do on computers for several years now. It's a fine testament to Intel's marketing prowess that everyone is brainwashed into thinking if they don't have the CPU that was released last week their computing experience will grind to a halt.

Hard drives are the real bottleneck, and have been for some time. Up until SSD's and Flash based devices, hard drives hadn't kept pace with the rest of computing at all. I'm ecstatic that Apple dropped SATA from the new Air. It will be interesting to see these new drives benchmarked without the brain-dead SATA layer in the middle slowing things down with arcane abstractions of heads/cylinders, smaller data paths, etc... It will be interesting to see what Apple has really done here - the opportunities for parallelism are huge!
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post #259 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) The 16:9 and 5 hour battery is a deal breaker for me. Heck the 7 hours on the 13” is a deal breaker for me.

not me - it's two hours better than my 12" PB G4.

The trade off is for the extreme portability - one I will gladly make.

Quote:
2) Is the storage based on mini-PCIe or SATA or something else?

We don't know. It's definitely NOT SATA - Jobs was pretty clear about that, albeit indirectly. This is the most exciting aspect of these new notebooks for me. Saddling SSD's with SATA has been grinding me for some time now. Thank god Apple is out there pushing the envelope with new honest to goodness engineering.

Quote:
3) What do comparable vendors charge for these machines? I did a quick search for a 11.6” ultra-portable but didn’t find anything really close to this MBA.

Everyone loved to point to the Acer equivalent except it weighed more, larger footprint, thicker (not as important to me as footprint), has a cheaper display (same resolution tho), lamer CPU, lame intel integrated GPU only, no flash drive...

As usual, not an apples to Apple comparison. I doubt you will find a directly comparable machine because there aren't any PC manufacturers bold enough to ignore the bottom trough and kick a solid mid-range machine out the door as their minimum offering.

This is a kick-ass ultra portable, and at it's price for the industrial design, it's going to be hard to beat. That won't stop the unrealistic comparisons and unrealistic complaints - but what else is new

Edit: charly on page 3 gave some pricing perspective. Interesting...
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post #260 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

That's a lot of presentations, but it's barely enough to hold my iPhoto library.

It's not meant to be the machine to hold your entire iPhoto library...
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post #261 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rck View Post

OK so no optical drive. How do you/I install new programs? I missed the presentation so I guess I have to wait.

Same way as the current drive-less Airs? External drive or over the network by sharing a drive from your existing Mac or PC?

DVD or CD Sharing - look in the sharing system preference if you are on Snow Leopard.

Instructions for Mac and Windows: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1777?viewlocale=en_US
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post #262 of 356
10/20/10 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Also, I'm not sure why they made the 11" one at all.

Thank god Apple isn't you - the 11" is finally the much needed successor to my 12" PB G4.
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post #263 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post

Doesn't anyone read any more?

People can read - they just don't choose to comprehend
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post #264 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

This is a kick-ass ultra portable, and at it's price for the industrial design, it's going to be hard to beat. That won't stop the unrealistic comparisons and unrealistic complaints - but what else is new

Edit: charly on page 3 gave some pricing perspective. Interesting...

I see Charly mentioned the Vaio Z.

Here is the Vaio X. I’ll play devil’s advocate. Sony made a kick ass 11” notebook* that gets 12 hours of battery life or 10 hours of battery on max brightness and it’s only 1.6 pounds** and comes with a 2GHz processor. That’s right, it’s a lot faster than that crappy 11” AirBook Mac.



* I say notebook but it’s really just very expensive netbook due to the use of an Atom processor, which is how it can get that battery life. Of course, if that is enough CPU for you then great. It also comes with a GMA500 GPU so it’s not like it’s great in the display department either.

** It’s common tactic for trolls or the woefully uninformed to pull the best points of a product and pair them together even though that don’t co-exist. The battery life is only 3 hours at defualt settings f you go with the standard battery which keeps it at the 1.6lb weight. Note at that price exceeding it already exceeds the high-end stock 11.6” MBA, and that’s before you add the weight and cost of the extended battery.

† Trolls never seem to get the names right.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #265 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

And why isn't the 256GB SSD available with the 11.6" model?

Space? Did you pay attention to the pictures of the motherboards? There's not a spare millimeter in there (not that I wouldn't like 256GB in the 11" since that's the machine that most appeals to me).
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post #266 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Here's a question. COULD Apple make a Netbook? Nobody here would doubt it! So why don't they?

Because the rate of return isn't worth it?

Because they don't have to?

Because they are perfectly content letting PC manufacturers kill themselves with the money loosing netbooks and sucky user experience perpetuated by netbooks? For all their millions of sales, where is the reward for the PC manufacturers? It sure isn't reflected in their profit or stock price.

The pundits are right - iPads are displaying computer sales - but it's not Mac sales as this quarters numbers have shown!
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post #267 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

I hope you aren't implying the iPad has outsold netbooks combined

This time next year it's going to be "netbook what?"
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post #268 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:30pm
No backlit keyboard ? Is Apple crazy ? What is the point of emphasize on mobility when you don't allow people to use in dark ?
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post #269 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoYun View Post

No backlit keyboard ? Is Apple crazy ? What is the point of emphasize on mobility when you don't allow people to use in dark ?

I agree that a backlit keyboard would be a nice feature, but your suggestion that its unusable in the dark, that Apple dont allow" people to use it in the dark, that Apple could have added it but choose to just frak with people, or that the very bright backlit display cant illuminate the keyboard as a less than ideal but very viable option are all silly.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #270 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

It's not a netbook, because according to Steve Jobs, Apple doesn't know how to make a netbook that isn't junk.

That said, the Air has specs that are much better than your typical netbook.

i think you (and actually several other people in the thread) are conflating several remarks from Jobs, several years apart.

Two years ago, during an earnings conference call (and near the beginning of the recession), he said this in a response to a question about cutting Mac prices to be more competitive:

Quote:
"What we want to do is deliver an increasing level of value to these customers, but there are some customers which we choose not to serve. We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk; our DNA will not let us do that. We've seen great success by focusing on certain segments of the market and not trying to be everything to everybody, and you can expect us to stick with that winning strategy."

During the same conference call he was asked specifically about netbooks and said that Apple was taking a "wait and see" attitude and that they had "some interesting ideas" about the segment.

And then earlier this year, during the introduction of the iPad he dismissed netbooks as slow, having poor quality screens and being burdened with Windows software.

I think in general most people understand that "netbook" is shorthand for "cheap little laptop that cuts a lot of corners to sell you something for under $300" and it's obvious why Jobs would have no interest in that idea. And then the idea is further muddied by "netbooks" that keep getting bigger and more expensive, until it's unclear why we are obliged to call them netbooks and not cheap laptops.

So any idea that Apple or Jobs have reversed course with regards to "netbooks" is unfounded, IMO.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #271 of 356
10/20/10 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

i think you (and actually several other people in the thread) are conflating several remarks from Jobs, several years apart.

Two years ago, during an earnings conference call (and near the beginning of the recession, he said this in a response to a question about cutting Mac prices to be more competitive:



During the same conference call he was asked specifically about netbooks and said that Apple was taking a "wait and see" attitude and that they had "some interesting ideas" about the segment.

And then earlier this year, during the introduction of the iPad he dismissed netbooks as slow, having poor quality screens and being burdened with Windows software.

I think in general most people understand that "netbook" is shorthand for "cheap little laptop that cuts a lot of corners to sell you something for under $300" and it's obvious why Jobs would have no interest in that idea. And then the idea is further muddied by "netbooks" that keep getting bigger and more expensive, until it's unclear why we are obliged to call the netbooks and not cheap laptop.

So any idea that Apple or Jobs have reversed course with regards to "netbooks" is unfounded, IMO.

Nice recollection or research, either way I had forgotten about most of those statements until you mentioned them. I think its clear this is Apples interesting ideas about the small notebook market.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #272 of 356
10/21/10 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

i think you (and actually several other people in the thread) are conflating several remarks from Jobs, several years apart.

Yea, he then releases a $500 iPad years later.

He's not against the idea of a cheap client device, so long it's HIS idea.

Move the touch pad to a horizontal plane and replace the ARM with a Via Nano, Atom, or CULV and whaaaa?

No, it's been done, can't do it.

Not that at least 500 people on the planet will be happy with their new MacBook Airs. If I see one of you I'll wink in your direction and give you a thumbs up to represent.
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post #273 of 356
10/21/10 at 12:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoYun View Post

No backlit keyboard ? Is Apple crazy ? What is the point of emphasize on mobility when you don't allow people to use in dark ?

People still have to look at keyboards? Hmph...

Do even half of the PC notebooks out there have backlit keyboards? This is what, one of two Apple models that doesn't? And for it's size and battery capacity, I can easily see them ditching a luxury feature like a backlit keyboard.

It's a machine of trade offs. If you want it all, head over to the MacBook Pro.
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post #274 of 356
10/21/10 at 12:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Yea, he then releases a $500 iPad years later.

He's not against the idea of a cheap client device, so long it's HIS idea.

The iPad is not a cheap client device. The inability of their competitors to follow in their footsteps kind of puts that to bed.
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post #275 of 356
10/21/10 at 12:57am
Well, tech-savvy ``crow' ' would be curious to see flash on a mezzanine in MBA.

Yet, I agree MBA's target audience has a lot of much more practical stuff to cope with. The difference between ``on' ' and ``up' ' for one.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #276 of 356
10/21/10 at 1:00am
I'm impressed. I think these new MacBook Airs demonstrate Apple's ability to think outside the box. The PC manufacturers (HP, Dell, and Acer, Asus) are more like systems integrators rather than product designers. A comparable thin-and-light Sony VAIO X is closest to being designed, but it's no MacBook Air.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #277 of 356
10/21/10 at 1:51am
Umm...
But flash chips seem indeed sitting on a mezzanine...


P.S. Then ``Can't wait & blah-blah-blah...' '

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #278 of 356
10/21/10 at 2:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali View Post

The new MBA are still using glossy-shinny-glassy screens, on an ultra-portable ! WTF !?

I need a MATTE SCREEN on my PORTABLE, Steve ! GEEZ !

Is there a layer of glass in front of the screen like on the MBP's, iMacs and Cinema Display?

If not, you could try the route of replacing the screen with a matte, or applying a good matte film.

Just so you know, matte displays AFAIK are glossy displays with a matte coating. In fact, you can buy a matte display and carefully peel off the matte coating with the right techniques to make it into a glossy screen. My issue is with the glass in front of many Apple products such as the iMac and Cinema display, as well as the 13 inch Macbook Pro.
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post #279 of 356
10/21/10 at 2:47am

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #280 of 356
10/21/10 at 3:42am
NO 3G ! (very important for me, and iPad won't do it, don't even suggest)
No matte screen option (screw APPL).
Though, it was defiantly worth of "One more thing"
I am not going to buy. (yeah, who cares, you'd say. Well, I don't care if you say it).

1h hour of the keynote - "great, magical software with this new function". Does any one cares about this marginal improvements in features? "FaceTime on a Mac can EVEN be used in Full screen, gorgeous full screen mode". They gave so much emphasis to it. Bite me.
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