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Apple unveils new, instant-on MacBook Air: 'MacBook meets iPad' - Page 9

post #321 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

The iPad is not a cheap client device. The inability of their competitors to follow in their footsteps kind of puts that to bed.

Um, there are many tablets out there. Look up the Galaxy Tab, for example.
post #322 of 356
Just got back from the Apple store, well as expected the 11" 1.4ghz under performed on a basic hd video stream test, very choppy video not even in fullscreen. The same video ran smooth on the 13" 1,86ghz air. both had 2gb ram... i'll tell you one thing the regular 13" MBP now feels heavy as lead in comparison to these new birds !
post #323 of 356
post #324 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Um, there are many tablets out there. Look up the Galaxy Tab, for example.

The Galaxy Tab is the only viable alternative, and it's not available until next month. Prices are not yet worked out, but at first glance, the iPad is still looking pretty good.
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #325 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Just got back from the Apple store, well as expected the 11" 1.4ghz under performed on a basic hd video stream test, very choppy video not even in fullscreen. The same video ran smooth on the 13" 1,86ghz air. both had 2gb ram... i'll tell you one thing the regular 13" MBP now feels heavy as lead in comparison to these new birds !

Interesting, I tried a few 720p movie trailers from the Apple site on the 11.6" 1.4ghz today and found the video playback to be smooth, even in fullscreen.
post #326 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YYac2zrGVg

Ha, sorry but the ultimate Steve Jobs video will always be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNSHA3FBW2U

(with animated RDF!)
post #327 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by drxcm View Post

Interesting, I tried a few 720p movie trailers from the Apple site on the 11.6" 1.4ghz today and found the video playback to be smooth, even in fullscreen.

Maybe he was using Flash (without h264 GPU decoding)
post #328 of 356
I've flown transatlantic flights on American, British Air, Air France and United. Unless you 're sitting in the 1st or Business class, you won't get a power outlet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

You must really be flying a crappy airline if they don't have power available to you on a transatlantic flight - in fact, looking through a smattering of planes on the major carriers on seatguru.com they all have power of some form available.
post #329 of 356
Then go back and watch the keynote, because SJ just say they did focus group for these products. he may not have called them focus group (if i could find a transcript I would send a link) but that's essentially what he was describing.

that wasn't even the point of my comment, so if you have anything to say about that I welcome it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Apple doesn't do focus groups. And Apple doesn't look at the competition. A side effect of this will inevitably be that some items on users' wishlists won't make it to market. But honestly, I don't think Steve or his engineering teams lose much sleep over this, considering the huge popularity Apple is currently enjoying. Naysayer's comments aside, it's pretty clear that Apple's been doing it right for some time now.
post #330 of 356
if you actually read and understood my comment, you would see that i was agreeing with you. So I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I am sick and tired of the complaining about the iPad price.

When someone release a tablet with the same size and quality screen and similar features (heck, it could even be heavier and bulkier and I will concede) then any commentary on price will be justified.

So far no one has been able to touch Apple at their price point - even using cheaper displays (which according to sites like iSupply are the bulk of the iPad cost).

I know people aren't used to thinking of Apple as a price leader, but with the iPad they clearly are and they deserve credit for it.

Just like with Netbooks, if you aren't willing to pay for that level of quality, that's another discussion - but all this talk that the iPad is overpriced or that there should be a $299 version is just plain nuts - it's not going to happen.
post #331 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Maybe he was using Flash (without h264 GPU decoding)

Yep Flash: http://kanyewest.com/GOODFridays/
post #332 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Yep Flash: http://kanyewest.com/GOODFridays/

I've ordered an 11.6 1.6ghz - will try this out when it arrives and report to see if its any better than the 1.4 at playback..
post #333 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1

Never said Apple proclaimed this, just in general.

Gotcha. Thought you meant they claimed this

you got no one dude

Youve never heard the term used to indicate that one is acknowledging what the other is saying? In other words, after your clarification I get where you are coming from.
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post #334 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youve never heard the term used to indicate that one is acknowledging what the other is saying? In other words, after your clarification I get where you are coming from.

Unfortunately, he misinterpreted it (incredibly incorrectly and mystifyingly) as "Aha, I gotcha (got you/successfully pulled a prank); that's not really what I meant."

TONIGHT ON LINGUISTIC THEATRE!

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post #335 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Just got back from the Apple store, well as expected the 11" 1.4ghz under performed on a basic hd video stream test, very choppy video not even in fullscreen. The same video ran smooth on the 13" 1,86ghz air. both had 2gb ram... i'll tell you one thing the regular 13" MBP now feels heavy as lead in comparison to these new birds !

Interesting. I would tend to accept the following review over your anecdotal experience. However, I may have read the review wrong.
Quote:
The reason why Apple chose to stay with a Core 2 Duo was so that it can benefit from a better graphics environment, specifically Nvidia's integrated one. The Nvidia GeForce 320M graphics chip is the MacBook Air's one redeeming feature in terms of performance.

Though it's not the kind of laptop you'd bring to a LAN party, it's a better gaming solution than Intel's integrated graphicsthe kind found in the Asus Ul20FT-A1, Acer AS1830T-3721, and Toshiba T235-S1350.

Its 3DMark 06 scores (4,569 and 3,984) were at least three-times better than the rest of the field.

It was the only laptop that could handle our 3D intensive gaming demos, Crysis and Lost Planet 2.

PCMark Vantage scores also favored the 11-inch Air (4,226), since a good chunk of this test is 3D intensive.

A better graphics solution also benefits HD playback: I tried several 1080p and 720p high-definition video clips, at high bit rates, and the 11-inch MacBook Air played them beautifully.

For those who are worried about heat, the base of the system measured 83-87 degree Fahrenheit (measured with a Fluke Thermometer) while playing back an HD video clip and rendering a photo with Photoshop CS5. Excessive heat is not an issue from what I'm seeing so far.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2371199,00.asp#


Note that the reviewer found that MBA 11 lacking under the Photoshop CS5 test. Then, it might have faired better with more RAM, but why anybody would consider getting this model for such duties is beyond comprehension.
post #336 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Unfortunately, he misinterpreted it (incredibly incorrectly and mystifyingly) as "Aha, I gotcha (got you/successfully pulled a prank); that's not really what I meant."

TONIGHT ON LINGUISTIC THEATRE!

I can see how the term by itself could be misunderstood, but I thought my statement immediately followed would have clarified the meaning. I think Ill go back to mea culpa just to be safe.
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post #337 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

We are not mad that Apple reneged on any promise, and we are not mad at SJ for raising the Middle Finger. We're mad because 3G on an Ultra-portable is something of a given when looking at the competition. Even ATT is selling Mini's on their site with 3G built-in. It's as much of a given on a Ultra-portable as a wireless network card.

You completely missed the point of our posts on this forum about the short-comings of Apple product. We're not offended, just frustrated that Apple is not addressing certain obvious requests of their users. SJ claims they went through tons of user/focus groups and incorporated those studies into their new products, but some issues just don't come up in a test lab.

Just who are 'we' you continually refer to? Bet they are the same people that complained about the iPhone 4 antenna, even though they didn't have one.
post #338 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Interesting. I would tend to accept the following review over your anecdotal experience. However, I may have read the review wrong.Note that the reviewer found that MBA 11 lacking under the Photoshop CS5 test. Then, it might have faired better with more RAM, but why anybody would consider getting this model for such duties is beyond comprehension.

Reread the thread... I was talking about a HD flash video, it's already been mentioned Apple HD videos run smooth, anyways I provided the link, go to an Apple store and try it out for yourself..
post #339 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Just got back from the Apple store, well as expected the 11" 1.4ghz under performed on a basic hd video stream test, very choppy video not even in fullscreen. The same video ran smooth on the 13" 1,86ghz air. both had 2gb ram... i'll tell you one thing the regular 13" MBP now feels heavy as lead in comparison to these new birds !

That isnt sufficient data. There is no standard definition of basic HD video stream test so we have no codec, container, bit rate, app you were using for this test.
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post #340 of 356
People need to learn to read, the link to the video is posted, comment #333

Test was done under Safari (duh)
post #341 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

People need to learn to read, the link to the video is posted, comment #333

Test was done under Safari (duh)

1) I responded to post #324. That comes before #333. On top of that, Im not going to read every single post in a particular thread, I expect the writer to at least to attempt at being clear since the point of writing is to communicate. You could have even edited your original post with the clarification.

2) Its still not clear what version of Flash you used, what the resolution of the video is, what the bit rate is. These things are important. If the MBA cant play a H.264 HW accelerated 720p Flash video at 1Mbps from a website then that is an issue. Again, there is insufficient data.

3) Posting a link is nice, but its usually not very informative in and of itself. Also, I did go to that site and it didnt spike my HW accelerated Flash 10.1 on my MBP at all. Fans didnt speed up and the temps didnt rise (something that can happen because the GPU is now doing the work). I have the Nvidia 320M that is in both these new MBAs. Also, who knows if that site is trying to use impressive bit rates to push a overly clear video, or the opposite, like with YouTubes weak 720p and 1080p bit rates (even though I can DL those files to verify the codec and bit rates). For that reason its best to test on testing sites to get an idea for thresholds, though one surely should go to the sites they use to verify that the machine will work for them.
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post #342 of 356
Listen i never claimed to be any kind of certified benchmark authority here... i simply opened safari on both MBA's and navigated to the said site, and noticed the 11" was seriously lagging while the 13" ran smooth. Since both MBA's have the same Nvidia card and same amount of RAM, i am under the assumption that what's at play here is the core2duo speed, its kind of self-explanatory but i welcome anybody to do further testings and post results...
post #343 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Listen i never claimed to be any kind of certified benchmark authority here... i simply opened safari on both MBA's and navigated to the said site, and noticed the 11" was seriously lagging while the 13" ran smooth. its kind of self-explanatory but i welcome anybody to due further testings and post results...

The new machines are very good for sure, but forget youtube vids and even some h.2XX vids. I have the late 2009 13" 1.6 MBA and it overheats a lot playing vids. When it overheats the processor decreases power.

I couldn't even see the entire apple wednesday keynote from apple website without closing safari, wait some minutes, open safari again a couple of times (this is a knonw issue just search "mba overheat").

I'm really worried about the 1.4 performance because everyone once in a while everyone uses youtube, and when the buyer realizes he cant do it, it will be very disappointed...

Steve just just upgrade the processors please.. most don't care about less autonomy .. i want a machine where i can watch any 360p!!!!! vids and still have the same portability \

Thanks.
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post #344 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migueldf View Post

The new machines are very good for sure, but forget youtube vids and even some h.2XX vids. I have the late 2009 13" 1.6 MBA and it overheats a lot playing vids. When it overheats the processor decreases power.

I couldn't even see the entire apple wednesday keynote from apple website without closing safari, wait some minutes, open safari again a couple of times (this is a knonw issue just search "mba overheat").

I'm really worried about the 1.4 performance because everyone once in a while everyone uses youtube, and when the buyer realizes he cant do it, it will be very disappointed...

Steve just just upgrade the processors please.. most don't care about less autonomy .. i want a machine where i can watch any 360p!!!!! vids and still have the same portability \

Thanks.

1) You are actually comparing your 9400M IGP for the performance you mention, not the CPUs.

2) The event was streamable on iPhones but you say a 2009 MBA overheating and you think its a performance issue and not an overheating issue despite your comment on the overheating? Based on your comments its very likely you have some other issues with your system that you arent aware of.

3) What processors do you recommend then? if you think these expensive LV and ULV C2Ds arent very good. How about a 2GHz Atom CPU with Intel GM550 IGP like in the $1300 Sony Vaio X? That is 600MHz faster then your CPU, and the GM550 is G230 more than 320M in the new MBA, right?
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post #345 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I responded to post #324. That comes before #333. On top of that, Im not going to read every single post in a particular thread, I expect the writer to at least to attempt at being clear since the point of writing is to communicate. You could have even edited your original post with the clarification.

2) Its still not clear what version of Flash you used, what the resolution of the video is, what the bit rate is. These things are important. If the MBA cant play a H.264 HW accelerated 720p Flash video at 1Mbps from a website then that is an issue. Again, there is insufficient data.

3) Posting a link is nice, but its usually not very informative in and of itself. Also, I did go to that site and it didnt spike my HW accelerated Flash 10.1 on my MBP at all. Fans didnt speed up and the temps didnt rise (something that can happen because the GPU is now doing the work). I have the Nvidia 320M that is in both these new MBAs. Also, who knows if that site is trying to use impressive bit rates to push a overly clear video, or the opposite, like with YouTubes weak 720p and 1080p bit rates (even though I can DL those files to verify the codec and bit rates). For that reason its best to test on testing sites to get an idea for thresholds, though one surely should go to the sites they use to verify that the machine will work for them.

Um, shouldn't Apple have all this figured out before it ships?
post #346 of 356
Digging further into the MBA's specs i just noticed that the 11" uses 3mb of L2 cache with a 800mhz frontside bus VS. 6mb of L2 cache with a 1066mhz frontside bus on the 13".
post #347 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Um, shouldn't Apple have all this figured out before it ships?

Apple did, its certain people that cant figure it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macdad View Post

Digging further into the MBA's specs i just noticed that the 11" uses 3mb of L2 cache with a 800mhz frontside bus VS. 6mb of L2 cache with a 1066mhz frontside bus on the 13".

And this is shocking because you think that a CPU with almost half the TDP should have more L2 and a faster FSB, or do you think Apple forced Intel to make their Ultra-Low Voltage (10W TDP) chips perform less than Low Voltage (17W TDP) chips?
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post #348 of 356
i was stating that information in regard to a possible explanation to the video stream performance testing i mentioned earlier but i guess you were too busy trying to be a prick and that flew right above you.
post #349 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Um, there are many tablets out there. Look up the Galaxy Tab, for example.

Sure - and what is the unsubsidized price and the size of the screen?

Still want to assert they are following in Apple's footsteps or that Apple isn't a good value proposition?
post #350 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I've flown transatlantic flights on American, British Air, Air France and United. Unless you 're sitting in the 1st or Business class, you won't get a power outlet.

If you look on all those carriers long-haul planes at a site like seatguru.com, while they may not have power at every seat they are space around to where it's fairly trivial to be sitting near power on most carriers. Some airlines are better than others - it's pretty easy to get power in economy on American. British Air and Air France are highly dependent on which plane you get put on so check your itinerary.

United was the worst, not offering it at all. As if I needed any more excuses to not fly United

Anyway, it's pretty easy to check a site like seatguru.com and figure out which carriers/planes are the better deal if you need power for a long flight. I went overseas earlier this year and it was a deciding factor for me in choosing between flights - it really isn't that big a deal
post #351 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's pretty clear that they do indeed intend this class of machines to be the future of the MacBook.

Within a few iterations these machines are going to be able to perform on par with the current MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Some folks will still squawk that that will be "underpowered", but the fact is CPU grunt is now well ahead of 99% of computing tasks and is widening the lead. They're just not making demanding software fast enough to keep up.

So a super light machine with instant on, great battery life and no moving parts is clearly the future, and Apple looks to be intent on ushering it in sooner rather than later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hearn View Post

So to sum up, at the high end the main changes are:

2GB -> 4GB
128GB SSD -> 256GB SSD
1,280 x 800 -> 1,440 x 900
3.0 lbs. -> 2.9 lbs.

Those are all great. It's just a shame about the processor. Hmmmm. Decisions, decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Convection of the i3 and i5 series, not to mention the sheer geometry and heat dissipation units alone make it DOA.

Some of the few intelligent posts in the first four pages I read. I'm getting depressed about wading through the lack of Mac knowledge in most discussions lately. Part of the influx of the great unwashed into Macland?

And as for most of the whining, bitching and carping - all from people who aren't the target users in the first place. Sheesh. If you "use optical drives all the time" you're not in the Air's demographic. Etc., etc., ad nauseum

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfRat View Post

So bummed there's no backlit keyboard, that's the only thing missing for me.

Guess I'll have to wait for the second revision.

This omission is puzzling in what's otherwise an upscale, fetish device for the terminally trendy and weight/space constrained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post

Wow! I can't believe you still use the 12.1" aluminum powerbook! Thats freakin awesome! That was far and away my favorite mac, but I replaced it with a white 2006 macbook. So I thought I was strange using a 4 year old computer, but you are still all the way back to the PB12! This makes me happy.

I'm still getting great use out of my 2004 1.33 GHZ G4 plastic iBook - looks good, runs great!

It is ready for demotion though - just lost its "6" key (not the plastic cap or switch, but deeper in the MB) and not worth throwing a new battery at (still on the original! but only 20 min. of run time left), e.g., so I was hoping for a bit more in the refresh dept. on the rest of the MBP's. And finally can't wait any longer for the next version which is likely to have features that will make better use of Lion. Ahh well, there's no cheap way around "future shock." So a 15" i7 it likely is for my main machine, since I'll probably use that for another 6 years!

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post #352 of 356
Funny how this supposed heat-dissipation issue doesn't affect the Toshiba Satellite T235-S1350
post #353 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe View Post

Funny how this supposed heat-dissipation issue doesn't affect the Toshiba Satellite T235-S1350

You’re really comparing a machine with a Pentium* U5400 at 1.2GHz using Intel HD graphics and no other graphics chip with dimensions of 12.7” x 8.8” x 0.70”/1.03” and starting at 3.9lb, to the MacBook Air with a C2D SL9600 at 2.13GHz with an Nvidia 330M which adds a reported 12-20W with dimensions of 11.8” x 7.56” x 0.11"/0.68” and weighing in at 2.3 pounds? REALLY?!

http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont...T235-S1350.pdf
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=49156
* Yeah, I said Pentium. Intel disables a bunch of features and uses the older the marketing term to sell at cheaper prices. I can’t find a price for this chip but I would imagine it’s about half as much as the chips used in the MBAs.
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post #354 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) You are actually comparing your 9400M IGP for the performance you mention, not the CPUs.

2) The event was streamable on iPhones but you say a 2009 MBA overheating and you think its a performance issue and not an overheating issue despite your comment on the overheating? Based on your comments its very likely you have some other issues with your system that you arent aware of.

3) What processors do you recommend then? if you think these expensive LV and ULV C2Ds arent very good. How about a 2GHz Atom CPU with Intel GM550 IGP like in the $1300 Sony Vaio X? That is 600MHz faster then your CPU, and the GM550 is G230 more than 320M in the new MBA, right?

1) maybe... so the problem is the 9400 not the CPU!
2) applecare says there is no problem. The only problem is actually the performance.. if u had one you would know it, its frustrating. Obviously the version on the iphones was with a lower resolution.
3) i recommend more powerfull C2D.
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post #355 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youre really comparing a machine with a Pentium* U5400 at 1.2GHz using Intel HD graphics and no other graphics chip with dimensions of 12.7 x 8.8 x 0.70/1.03 and starting at 3.9lb, to the MacBook Air with a C2D SL9600 at 2.13GHz with an Nvidia 330M which adds a reported 12-20W with dimensions of 11.8 x 7.56 x 0.11"/0.68 and weighing in at 2.3 pounds? REALLY?!
http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont...T235-S1350.pdf
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=49156
* Yeah, I said Pentium. Intel disables a bunch of features and uses the older the marketing term to sell at cheaper prices. I cant find a price for this chip but I would imagine its about half as much as the chips used in the MBAs.

Maybe he literally meant it was "funny" in the sense that his comparison was nonsensical and he was a clown.
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post #356 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migueldf View Post

1) maybe... so the problem is the 9400 not the CPU!
3) i recommend more powerfull C2D.

1) I believe the 320M is something like twice as powerful as the 9400M, so no surprise 320M-based systems have no problem vs the 9400.
3) The problem is that there are no more powerful C2D chips within the power envelopes needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Form_Factor.29

Top-end 10W C2Ds are 1.4 and 1.6GHz, which they used. Next step up are the matching Penryn's at 17W. Same processor speeds we're seeing in the 13". Apple is at the mercy of Intel's processor list. Their only other options are to wait for Sandy Bridge, which still doesn't have OpenCL support and the graphics portion still lags the 320M or to switch over to AMD's next-gen product, which has unknown quantities, not to mention unclear performance as AMD has been cautious on their claims.

Neither Intel or AMD has their next-gen products ready yet tho and Apple clearly wanted to cement a product line for the holidays. They made their design decisions, had certain goals that I assume they achieved and released a new version of a very niche product. This new version will likely be more popular than the previous version and let's be perfectly honest. We're a bunch of tech-geeks. We're a lot more picky about our products. This will fit a lot of business users needs very well at a much lower starting price point and it will also slot nicely w/the people who are mostly buying a laptop for email and browsing the web who just want something smaller. The instant-on, long standby times and reasonable capabilities make it no slouch for them
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