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New MacBook Air ships without Flash installed

post #1 of 109
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Users are reporting that Apple's MacBook Air models, which were unveiled Wednesday, are shipping without the Adobe Flash plugin installed.

The lack is a departure from previous Mac products, which came with Adobe Flash preloaded, although it remains unclear whether all future Mac computers will ship without the software. Engadget noticed the missing plugin, reporting that Flash content worked fine after Flash Player was installed on Apple's new ultra-thin notebook.

Apple announced the new 11.6-inch MacBook Air models and an updated 13.3-inch MacBook Air version with instant-on capabilities at its "Back to the Mac" event Wednesday. AppleInsider broke news of the 11.6-inch model well in advance of Wednesday's announcement.

Apple and Adobe have been at odds lately, with the two companies' CEOs exchanging barbs in a public war of words earlier this year. This spring, responding to criticism of Apple's choice not to support Flash on its iOS devices, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs spoke out.

"Flash has not performed well on mobile devices," wrote Jobs in an open letter in April, noting that Adobe at that time had yet to ship Flash on a smartphone. "We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it."

Continuing to defend the lack of Flash support on the iPad and iPhone, Jobs claimed that Flash is the No. 1 cause of crashes on the Mac. Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen quickly denied the claim, pushing the blame onto Apple's operating system, calling Jobs' comments a "smokescreen." Narayen told the Wall Street Journal Jobs' accusation that Flash drains the battery life of mobile devices was "patently false."

In May, Adobe responded to Jobs' open letter with an open letter of its own and an advertising campaign. "We [Heart] Apple," the ads read. "What we don't love is anybody taking away your freedom to choose what you create, how you create it, and what you experience on the web."

Despite the tense words on both sides, Apple decided to 'play nice' last month when it relaxed restrictions on third-party development tools. Adobe had developed a cross-compiler to convert Flash apps into iOS apps, but decided to stop work on it after the tool was blocked when Apple banned intermediary tools in its iPhone 4 SDK license.

After Apple lifted its restrictions of third-party development tools in early September, Adobe revealed that it would continue development of its Packager cross-compiler for iPhone.
post #2 of 109
Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!
post #3 of 109
I remember the original rev.A Macbook Air has all sorts of problems with Flash. Overheating, battery drain etc. Maybe that is the reason and the plugin will still come with bigger Macs.

But somehow I think it's now gone from all future Macs. LoL Abode started all this fuss about the iDevices not having Flash, publicly calling Apple "not open" etc, and now they're getting their payback.
post #4 of 109
To paraphrase Steve Jobs, so if they are shipping with no flash, do you have to install your own mass storage device?
post #5 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I remember the original rev.A Macbook Air has all sorts of problems with Flash. Overheating, battery drain etc. Maybe that is the reason and the plugin will still come with bigger Macs.

But somehow I think it's now gone from all future Macs. LoL Abode started all this fuss about the iDevices not having Flash, publicly calling Apple "not open" etc, and now they're getting their payback.

I think Flash 10.1 should be okay on a 1.3GHz C2D, but I think you have a point. I think Adobe annoyed Apple and theyre going to stop letting them piggy back with their shoddy Mac support.
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post #6 of 109
Personally, I think it would be easier to install flash than uninstall it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

I think there comes a point when certain things sour the experience. As acsii pointed out, flash has caused problems in the past. Maybe Apple wanted to make sure nothing would happen again. For instance, if a user kept having their Air overheat, they would blame Apple. Although, it was Adobe's fault.
post #7 of 109
out of the box mac have already flash installed on ? Can't remember

Anyway, it's a non-news, almost every computer in the world doesn't have flash pre-installed
post #8 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by luinil View Post

out of the box mac have already flash installed on ? Can't remember

Anyway, it's a non-news, almost every computer in the world doesn't have flash pre-installed

I've got used to not having flash on my iPad now. Don't miss it one bit. My lap has never been so cool.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #9 of 109
Apple shipped SL with an outdated Flash player, and people bitched. Apple learned their lesson, and just forgo bundling Flash completely, and people bitch too. Really? I rather install the latest Flash on my own than having an outdated version with security vulnerabilities pre-installed.

Besides, this has only become "news" thanks to Engadget link bait for more page hits from the haters.
post #10 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I remember the original rev.A Macbook Air has all sorts of problems with Flash. Overheating, battery drain etc. Maybe that is the reason and the plugin will still come with bigger Macs.

But somehow I think it's now gone from all future Macs. LoL Abode started all this fuss about the iDevices not having Flash, publicly calling Apple "not open" etc, and now they're getting their payback.

How professional of Apple, then. Apparently they can't take the slightest bit of criticism and thus have to play childish games and give "payback," similar to the "Get a Mac" campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luinil View Post

out of the box mac have already flash installed on ? Can't remember

Anyway, it's a non-news, almost every computer in the world doesn't have flash pre-installed

This is true. Mac OS X is the only platform I know that has a Flash plug-in installed by default.
post #11 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

How professional of Apple, then. Apparently they can't take the slightest bit of criticism and thus have to play childish games and give "payback," similar to the "Get a Mac" campaign.

I don't think it's a childish move. If they ship Macs with Flash, they are just contributing to the stats about how many people can view Flash content. If they remove support by default, they could get the number below 90%.

The share of HTML 5 browsers between Firefox, Safari, Chrome, IE9 and mobile devices will start to creep up to this number until content publishers have fewer excuses for authoring Flash video.
post #12 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by pika2000 View Post

Apple shipped SL with an outdated Flash player, and people bitched. Apple learned their lesson, and just forgo bundling Flash completely, and people bitch too. Really? I rather install the latest Flash on my own than having an outdated version with security vulnerabilities pre-installed.

Bingo...
post #13 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

I've got used to not having flash on my iPad now. Don't miss it one bit. My lap has never been so cool.

i totally agree with you, exactly same here... my lap was never so cool from last 3 yrs with my black macbook as it is with iPad now... and the best thing is the websites which i visit regularly are still working on iPad (they have converted to html5)...

and i'm so glad that now i can watch the live video of apple new events (on my iPad and it played nicely with staying cool all the time)

my way or the highway...

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my way or the highway...

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post #14 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

How professional of Apple, then. Apparently they can't take the slightest bit of criticism and thus have to play childish games and give "payback," similar to the "Get a Mac" campaign.

I think it's Adobe that just can't face the truth. Flash Player got it's success due to functionality gaps in HTML4, but the web was always meant as an open platform. Flash Player was never long term viable because HTML v5 was always going to come along.

Now, with HTML5 imminent, it's Adobe's day of reckoning, and instead of facing it like a man they get hysterical as individual vendors drop their plugin one by one and adopt HTML5. And irony of ironies, their argument against such vendors is "They're not being open."
post #15 of 109
My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.
post #16 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by luinil View Post

out of the box mac have already flash installed on ? Can't remember
Anyway, it's a non-news, almost every computer in the world doesn't have flash pre-installed

Agreed. I know the Apple vs Flash "struggle" seems more newsworthy/sexy, but I think one would be REMISS by not mentioning that Apple has been stung in the past for not keeping up with Adobe Flash security updates when including it in its releases.

This was June of this year:
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/17/...-flash-player/
Quote:
Adobe released its new Flash Player 10.1 just five days before Apple pushed Mac OS X 10.6.4 to the public, and, as is frequently the case, Apple chose not to include the new version in the OS update without having time to perform sufficient testing.

In September 2009 Apple was also criticized for downgrading installed Flash updates when it released Snow Leopard.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...des_flash.html
Quote:
Senior Technology Consultant Graham Cluley said the change is made without prompting the user. He called the move "pretty bad."

"I realize how much malware is out there," he said. "But after upgrading to Snow Leopard, when I went to Adobe's Web site, what it actually told me was I had actually downgraded. I was no longer running the latest version of Adobe Flash."

With Flash security issues cropping up at any time, this was the original reason Apple stopped updating Flash support in Quicktime. By not including Flash in the default install for MacBook Air, Apple is not making itself responsible for issues related to Adobe and its software.

Yes, its convenient to have it preinstalled, but its not unreasonable for Apple to avoid "problems" by having the user go directly to the vendor. I'm pretty sure Apple has enough balls to juggle right now without retesting for a zero-day vulnerability a week before releasing a critical new product.

~ CB
post #17 of 109
LOL. When I first read the headline "New MacBook Air ships without Flash installed" I thought it was missing the storage chips. That would be interesting news. Telling me that the Adobe Flash plug-in isn't preinstalled is like, meh? Is that really news?

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post #18 of 109
And BTW, I have the "Safari No Flash" plug-in installed on my Mac, and I don't really miss it on my iPad, so do I really care? Here's what is awesome about the Mac (besides everything): I can load Flash, Silverlight, or even Windows 7, if that's what I really crave. Thank you, Apple for not cramming Flash down my throat.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #19 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by pika2000 View Post

Apple shipped SL with an outdated Flash player, and people bitched. Apple learned their lesson, and just forgo bundling Flash completely, and people bitch too. Really? I rather install the latest Flash on my own than having an outdated version with security vulnerabilities pre-installed.

Besides, this has only become "news" thanks to Engadget link bait for more page hits from the haters.

Agreed. Systems manufacturers should NOT send systems out with flash pre-installed for exactly this reason.
post #20 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't think it's a childish move. If they ship Macs with Flash, they are just contributing to the stats about how many people can view Flash content. If they remove support by default, they could get the number below 90%.

How could they when they only have a 5% market share?
post #21 of 109
And thus spake the masses: Alas, for where is my Farmville? Has some great curse fallen upon my FrontierVille? Woe is thee for whom Mafia Wars doth not perform.

Buh bye Flash.
post #22 of 109
Big fucking deal. If you want Flash, just take all of the 30 seconds to install the stupid plugin... Now on to real news....
post #23 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

It is an out of the box experience. Why should flash be pre-installed any more than flip4mac or silverlight - plug-ins are out there and properly coded sites will help you to install them if needed.

I for one have click2flash installed and don't miss flash ever, nor do I have silverlight, the shockwave plug-in - but somehow it never interrupts my viewing experience except for video - and that is simply a case of lazy developers. I can't believe people thing the only way to embed video is flash or HTML5 - this is meant to be a community of tech-savvy users.

Anyway, back on point - if you want third party software, install it yourself.
post #24 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

How could they when they only have a 5% market share?

It's now over 10%, nearly 21% if taking the iPad into account.
post #25 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

And thus spake the masses: Alas, for where is my Farmville? Has some great curse fallen upon my FrontierVille? Woe is thee for whom Mafia Wars doth not perform.

Buh bye Flash.

Farmville? There's an app for that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike View Post

Big fucking deal. If you want Flash, just take all of the 30 seconds to install the stupid plugin... Now on to real news....

Agreed.
post #26 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

So you registered (with an inflammatory name to boot), just to make this comment?
Really?

Really??


Thanks for your input. Now, go run and play.

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post #27 of 109
I dont see what the big deal with this is...

If they install Flash people bitch. If they dont install Flash people bitch. Either way ....PEOPLE BITCH!!!.

But honestly how hard is it for people to click http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

I mean what next people are going to start complaining that the Mac doesn't come pre installed with a particular Codec pack or similar.

Then there is the other side to this argument and that is IF they did install Flash and people had issues with it. Do they complain to Adobe about it or do they blame Apple? Who does the out of the box support Adobe or Apple?
Exactly it falls back onto Apple. So to save the hassle of having to deal with people complaining about their 3RD PARTY plugin not working, they simply don't install it.

Time to get over it people, stop being so f$%#ing lazy and expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter and install it yourself.
post #28 of 109
Should this wonderful new thing not be called airPad?
post #29 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

It is an out-of-the-box experience without flash. Deal with it. --Steve
post #30 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

And my all 3 browsers periodically crash because of the flash. Oh, and you do not have iOS on MacBook Air.
post #31 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mori View Post

Should this wonderful new thing not be called airPad?

If it had 3G.... If only it had 3G....
post #32 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

LOL. When I first read the headline "New MacBook Air ships without Flash installed" I thought it was missing the storage chips. That would be interesting news. Telling me that the Adobe Flash plug-in isn't preinstalled is like, meh? Is that really news?

I had the exact same thought.
post #33 of 109
Ever since I switched YouTube to HTML5 I can't really remember the last time Safari barfed on me.

And Adblock kills most of the Flash-based ads.

Of course, a simple Flash game on Facebook makes my MacBook's fans spin within about 30 seconds though. Thanks Adobe.
post #34 of 109
Off topic slightly but Apple need to make a 64 bit plug in for Safari 5.1 that utilizes Preview to open in line Adobe Reader docs since Adobe don't seem able to do it. Until then Safari has to be switched to 32 bit to use Adobe Reader 9's plug in. Sheesh!
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post #35 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

I had the exact same thought.

That was my first thought to LOL. The use of the word Flash made me smile in the video about the MBA too and then several references to Windows ... 'not those Windows' by the shaky handed guy. Perhaps a subtle redefining of certain words is under way?
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post #36 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

Ever since I switched YouTube to HTML5 I can't really remember the last time Safari barfed on me.

And Adblock kills most of the Flash-based ads.

Of course, a simple Flash game on Facebook makes my MacBook's fans spin within about 30 seconds though. Thanks Adobe.

Yep like they couldn't have solved this years ago! This and as I said up the thread Adobe won't update the Reader Plug in for Safari 5.1 64 bit. Adobe seem to have systematically targeted Macs to hold them back. This started before SJ dumped Flash.
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post #37 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

It's like that pick-up truck and car analogy... how most vehicles at the dawn of the combustion engine were pick-ups which might have been expected to come with certain features standard issue (such as gun racks); and now there is much more diversification in form factor and style and quality among the vehicles on the road...

Steve says:
"Yes, we are selling you a great little utility vehicle. And, yes, it does have room in the back window; but folks, we just aren't going to install a gun rack for you. A gun rack is just not a standard option on this model, sorry. Look, I know most people in America own flashy guns; you might even say it is a quintessential aspect of being American -- though many Americans would likely deny it and say they can get along fine without guns. I know a lot of you like to flirt with disaster and fiddle around with loaded guns in your own homes, or flash them around to other people; but we have decided we won't have anything to do with guns ourselves. In our opinion, guns are just something better left alone; and its not like most people in the whole world have or need to have a gun. You want a gun, go get one; you want to carry it around in your vehicle, go get a gun rack somewhere and install it yourself. Good luck with that; no-one is stopping you; but do yourself a favor and learn the laws of the road or the laws of the land first."
post #38 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

It's like that pick-up truck and car analogy... how most vehicles at the dawn of the combustion engine were pick-ups which might have been expected to come with certain features standard issue (such as gun racks); and now there is much more diversification in form factor and style and quality among the vehicles on the road...

Steve says:
"Yes, we are selling you a great little utility vehicle. And, yes, it does have room in the back window; but folks, we just aren't going to install a gun rack for you. A gun rack is just not a standard option on this model, sorry. Look, I know most people in America own flashy guns; you might even say it is a quintessential aspect of being American -- though many Americans would likely deny it and say they can get along fine without guns. I know a lot of you like to flirt with disaster and fiddle around with loaded guns in your own homes, or flash them around to other people; but we have decided we won't have anything to do with guns ourselves. In our opinion, guns are just something better left alone; and its not like most people in the whole world have or need to have a gun. You want a gun, go get one; you want to carry it around in your pick-up, go get a gun rack somewhere and install it yourself. Good luck with that; no-one is stopping you; but do yourself a favor and learn the laws of the road or the laws of the land first."

Steve used a gun rack analogy? Got the link please?
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post #39 of 109
Wow. I know apple wants the world to move away from flash, but this is quite a petty move.

Cue a few thousand support phone calls asking why websites aren't loading properly on a brand new computer.
post #40 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Wow. I know apple wants the world to move away from flash, but this is quite a petty move.

Cue a few thousand support phone calls asking why websites aren't loading properly on a brand new computer.

If flash isn't installed there's usually some kind of indicator to...install flash. Which takes all of a click.
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