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New MacBook Air ships without Flash installed - Page 2

post #41 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:09am
Very funny! But I've gotten used to Apple "laptops" overheating under full load, which is why Apple doesn't call them laptops.
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post #42 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Very funny! But I've gotten used to Apple "laptops" overheating under full load, which is why Apple doesn't call them laptops.

Since I installed Click to Flash I have removed this issue. I just click to allow a particular Flash element I want and all the others stay grayed out (often half a dozen or more an any typical news page). Just running the one you want saves a ton of CPU cycles, battery life and heat!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #43 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:30am
By not installing Flash, Apple doesn't have to worry the effect of Flash when calculating battery usage numbers. Just sayin...
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post #44 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:30am
It makes perfect sense.

Lots of first time buyers. They won't understand when their shiny new Air crashes every time they try to surf the web.

Better to simply exclude the functionality.
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post #45 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:33am
As an aside, I watched the keynote live from the Apple site yesterday, and I must say the HTML5 video delivery was impressive. Running it full screen, the quality was excellent although it did partially pixelate momentarily a couple of times in some of the more dynamic iMovie clips they showed. Whatever other merits it may or may not have, there is absolutely no need for the Flash plug-in to show video any more.
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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post #46 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:36am
Makes one wonder, if they drop it from all future Macs, will they allow it in the Mac App Store so those who need it can easily get it and keep it updated?
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post #47 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

So you registered (with an inflammatory name to boot), just to make this comment?
Really?

Really??


Thanks for your input. Now, go run and play.

Oh, just ignore him.

Eric likes to hang out in some of these forums and throw bombs.
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post #48 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

As an aside, I watched the keynote live from the Apple site yesterday, and I must say the HTML5 video delivery was impressive. Running it full screen, the quality was excellent although it did partially pixelate momentarily a couple of times in some of the more dynamic iMovie clips they showed. Whatever other merits it may or may not have, there is absolutely no need for the Flash plug-in to show video any more.

Spot on. I was blown away by the quality of the video stream.

But did anyone else find the volume to be a tad low?
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post #49 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

It makes perfect sense.

Lots of first time buyers. They won't understand when their shiny new Air crashes every time they try to surf the web.

Better to simply exclude the functionality.

I dislike Flash, and it is a battery drain and all, but I can't recall a single time my Mac or Safari has crashed due to it. Perhaps I'm not going to the right sites to make that happen...
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post #50 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

It is. They've finally done the right thing and NOT subjected the user to the misery of Flash. Unless the user is stupid enough to believe they need it, they never have to deal with it.

Awesome.
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post #51 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I dislike Flash, and it is a battery drain and all, but I can't recall a single time my Mac or Safari has crashed due to it. Perhaps I'm not going to the right sites to make that happen...

Then you're very lucky, as it used to happen all the time. Not so much today, although the sluggish behavior/battery drain is still an absolute joke.
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post #52 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

You had one didn't you?!

Just not what you thought...

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #53 of 110
10/21/10 at 5:56am
How stupid is it that one horrible plug in is the contention of al this debate? F*CK adobe, already!

Seriously! They're bringing down the entire industry to levels of 5 years ago because their awful product is still everywhere, and people are still brainwashed into thinking "it" = "video" on the web.

Meanwhile, Apple can make better products than anyone else, because they ignore stupid Flash.

Which needs to go? The best products in the world? or Stupid Flash?
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post #54 of 110
10/21/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

Then go to Adobe's website and install it.

I've seen several windows PC that doesn't have Flash preinstalled.
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post #55 of 110
10/21/10 at 6:45am
Like the boss said, this is the future of computing.

You will only get what Steve Jobs wants you to get. Never mind what you want. Still liking it??
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post #56 of 110
10/21/10 at 6:53am
I have the last model macbook air, and I can attest that flash is worthless on the thing. As soon as I put some flash on, it heats up, gets loud, and comes to a standstill. This is true with youtube, hulu, netflix, and even when the fiance wants to play farmville. I was hoping that flash would have been improved on the new model, but not even installing it leads me to believe that the problem is still there.
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post #57 of 110
10/21/10 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Like the boss said, this is the future of computing.

You will only get what Steve Jobs wants you to get. Never mind what you want. Still liking it??

Except for the fact that you can install Adobe Flash as you wish. Try again.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #58 of 110
10/21/10 at 6:58am
In my testing on a macbook WebM and HTML 5 implementation of h.264 were both much worse then flash 10.1 in terms of battery life and fan rotation when playing 720p video.

The issue must be browser related, because quicktime movies in HD barely get the fans above 2400 RPM, but on youtube 6,600 is the norm for both flash and non-flash HD videos.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #59 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:08am
Wait a minute, before all of you get up in arms about Flash not being on the mac platform by default...

Windows has never had it built in.
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post #60 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Except for the fact that you can install Adobe Flash as you wish. Try again.

I can't. I don't have a MacBook Air. So I take you're word for it.

This being the case, what is the point of the article? Did my iMac not have flash installed? Did I install it? I don't remember doing that. In fact, I never even knew what Flash was until the first iPhone didn't have it and websites didn't correctly.

Not everyone is a geek developer. Please remember that Macs are supposed to be for mere mortals. Isn't that why OSX comes with drivers for nearly every printer? So I don't have to bother with installing stuff and have a great "out of the box" experience? Isn't the "i" in iMac supposed to stand for the internet? Don't you need Flash to see a big percent of the internet?

Well, I think I made my point. At least I did to anyone not under the RDF.
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post #61 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelesler View Post

Wait a minute, before all of you get up in arms about Flash not being on the mac platform by default...

Windows has never had it built in.

Perhaps Adobe has changed their licensing agreements and Apple is no longer allowed to distribute it with new products. It is Adobe's software - not Apple's - to do as they choose.
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post #62 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:48am
If Apple had flash installed, they would need to change the advertising to reflect the battery life.
Without Flash , up to 7 hours
With Flash, Up to 2 hours.
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post #63 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Just running the one you want saves a ton of CPU cycles, battery life and heat!

So does running Windows. Just saying.

Is either solution optimal?
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post #64 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I dislike Flash, and it is a battery drain and all, but I can't recall a single time my Mac or Safari has crashed due to it. Perhaps I'm not going to the right sites to make that happen...

That is Steve's claim. I have no pretensions of originality.
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post #65 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

people are still brainwashed into thinking "it" = "video" on the web.



Naw. Last I heard, it was only 95% of the video on the web. Still plenty of choices for those who are unable to use normal websites without overheating.
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post #66 of 110
10/21/10 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadisawesome View Post

I have the last model macbook air, and I can attest that flash is worthless on the thing. As soon as I put some flash on, it heats up, gets loud, and comes to a standstill. This is true with youtube, hulu, netflix, and even when the fiance wants to play farmville. I was hoping that flash would have been improved on the new model, but not even installing it leads me to believe that the problem is still there.

Yep. That's why the Air cannot be called a "netbook". It has severe problems when it accesses the 'net.
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post #67 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

If Apple had flash installed, they would need to change the advertising to reflect the battery life.
Without Flash , up to 7 hours
With Flash, Up to 2 hours.

And if you don't run any software at all, the battery lasts a month.

So what?

The lopping off of functionality, rather than the optimization of functionality, is something that many potential buyers don't like.

IMO, this is a big reason why so few people buy Macs.
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post #68 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:08am
Apple will have the Mac App Store in place within 90 days. There is no reason why Adobe can’t put their free Flash player on the store for the very simple install that they showed in the demo yesterday. This takes Apple out of the equation for supporting Flash, it let’s Adobe get Flash updates to users faster and prevents the oh so dreadful(¡) eventuality that Mac OS X Lion could get finalized with a slightly out of date version of Adobe Flash on it. The horror!¡

Are there any other 3rd-party SW that Apple has been including on their systems that would be better regulated to the Mac App Store? I think this will be a trend and I think this may be the real reason for the exclusion at this point, not the performance of the LV/ULV C2D.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

If Apple had flash installed, they would need to change the advertising to reflect the battery life.
Without Flash , up to 7 hours
With Flash, Up to 2 hours.

All hyperbole aside, there may be some truth in that. Steve did say they were getting more stringent with their battery testing and they do list the battery times as being for Wirelesss Browsing.

PS: Apple has had the best battery measurements for at a half decade now. It’s too bad that no one but Sony has followed them into the real-world mean usage.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #69 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

Perhaps Adobe has changed their licensing agreements and Apple is no longer allowed to distribute it with new products. It is Adobe's software - not Apple's - to do as they choose.

Probably true. If I were CEO of Adobe, Apple would never see another product from me. I would tell Steve to take his "thoughts on Flash" letter and wipe up his reality distortion field with it.
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post #70 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Wow. I know apple wants the world to move away from flash, but this is quite a petty move.

Cue a few thousand support phone calls asking why websites aren't loading properly on a brand new computer.

Dont see why, Its not installed by default on Windows
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post #71 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

And if you don't run any software at all, the battery lasts a month.

So what?

The lopping off of functionality, rather than the optimization of functionality, is something that many potential buyers don't like.

IMO, this is a big reason why so few people buy Macs.

So "few" people buy macs because Apple isn't including a feature that Windows never had? Good one.

A lot of people don't buy a mac because there are more to choose from and a lot of them are cheaper. That doesn't mean that the cheaper option is better though. PC manufacturers will include anything that looks good on a spec sheet and nothing that doesn't show there. They often assemble a pile of garbage with good specs for a low price and the PC's that don't suck cost more, just like a mac.

I have a PC at home in addition to my mac, but I built it myself because I wanted quality components.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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post #72 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

But did anyone else find the volume to be a tad low?

I did too.

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #73 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Dont see why, Its not installed by default on Windows

In all fairness, while its not installed on retail versions of Windows, while it is on retail versions of Mac OS X, it is typically installed on all retail PCs, something that Apple does sell.
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post #74 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

And if you don't run any software at all, the battery lasts a month.

So what?

The lopping off of functionality, rather than the optimization of functionality, is something that many potential buyers don't like.

IMO, this is a big reason why so few people buy Macs.

appl -----> ignore list

Buh bye.
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post #75 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple will have the Mac App Store in place within 90 days. There is no reason why Adobe cant put their free Flash player on the store for the very simple install that they showed in the demo yesterday. This takes Apple out of the equation for supporting Flash, it lets Adobe get Flash updates to users faster and prevents the oh so dreadful(¡) eventuality that Mac OS X Lion could get finalized with a slightly out of date version of Adobe Flash on it. The horror!¡

Are there any other 3rd-party SW that Apple has been including on their systems that would be better regulated to the Mac App Store? I think this will be a trend and I think this may be the real reason for the exclusion at this point, not the performance of the LV/ULV C2D.



All hyperbole aside, there may be some truth in that. Steve did say they were getting more stringent with their battery testing and they do list the battery times as being for Wirelesss Browsing.

PS: Apple has had the best battery measurements for at a half decade now. Its too bad that no one but Sony has followed them into the real-world mean usage.

While I am not sure this is the reason Apple decided not to install the plugin I would rather have a system as clean as possible and install any additional software or add ons I want.

Even when I get a Windows system I never buy from a Tier 1 and I get a nice clean system with just the OS an drivers.

Macbook Air in any case still does nothing for me. Its a really nice looking system just not what I need.
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post #76 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:47am
Crunch! But I agree...I don't like flash sites...they're slow and you can't cut and paste text on them...such things as URL's or phone numbers, etc.

Our Broker's site (Back Office) is Flash and you have to have "popups on" set in the Browser. Huh?

Who in their right mind, in this day and age, would design a site where you have to have "popups on?" Ugggh!

Our file numbers are 9 digits, but you can't cut and paste them to put in an email if there is a question. Uggggh!

And lastly you can't view it on an iPhone....As a realtor, my whole business is in my iPhone...that is except the all important, Back Office that has all the docs, status, etc., of my listings and sales! I essentially have to have a 'Duplicate' back office on my Mac...to access on my iPhone via DropBox!

Best
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post #77 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:49am
Steve said:
Quote:
Flash is the number one reason Macs crash.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Adobe says:
Quote:
Adobe Blames Apple for CS5 Crashes Under Mac OS X 10.6.4
...
In response to this, and many other complaints on the companys forums, an Adobe employee stated: That crash just started appearing yesterday with the delivery of MacOS 10.6.4. (I found unknown crashes moving up the statistics earlier today and had engineers looking at them before lunch) It is related to OpenGL, and probably to a driver update delivered with 10.6.4. [...] you can either tell Apple that 10.6.4 introduced this problem, or just wait for us to document it and ask Apple to fix it and eventually get a fix in the next OS patch.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Adobe...4-145896.shtml

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post #78 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Our Broker's site (Back Office) is Flash and you have to have "popups on" set in the Browser. Huh?

Who in their right mind, in this day and age, would design a site where you have to have "popups on?" Ugggh!

Popups are not a Flash feature, they're a JavaScript feature.

Dependency on popups isn't a Flash problem, it's a stupid designer problem.

HTML5 won't fix stupid designers, and neither can Flash.
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post #79 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadisawesome View Post

I have the last model macbook air, and I can attest that flash is worthless on the thing. As soon as I put some flash on, it heats up, gets loud, and comes to a standstill. This is true with youtube, hulu, netflix, and even when the fiance wants to play farmville. I was hoping that flash would have been improved on the new model, but not even installing it leads me to believe that the problem is still there.

I think you may have exaggerated a bit because Netflix uses Silverlight not Flash.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #80 of 110
10/21/10 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Popups are not a Flash feature, they're a JavaScript feature.

Dependency on popups isn't a Flash problem, it's a stupid designer problem.

HTML5 won't fix stupid designers, and neither can Flash.

thanks for the clarification...but it still shows a clumsy designer starting with the use Flash as you stated!

Best
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