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New MacBook Air ships without Flash installed - Page 3

post #81 of 109
Windows doesnt ship with Flash Player, Java, or a PDF reader.

People need to stop being hypocrites.
post #82 of 109
This movement by Apple convinces me more about a think I've thinking a lot lately. I'm pretty sure that Apple, in someway I don't know for sure, it's going to release some app to develop Flash-like animations and apps that can be compiled as HTML/JavaScript, just like Flash's SWF's. I could put my hands on fire, that thing it's going to be announced next year with Lion.
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post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

And what percentage of all Android phones sold in the last year can even run Froyo? And of the ones that can who knows when it will be available to them?

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post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

Oh good grief, does it come with silverlight installed, or flip4mac, or vlc? This is such non news, people need to just get over it.
post #85 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Very funny! But I've gotten used to Apple "laptops" overheating under full load, which is why Apple doesn't call them laptops.

Never had an Apple laptop overheat on me since the move from PPC, maybe it's time to upgrade.
post #86 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

It is an out of the box experience. Why should flash be pre-installed any more than flip4mac or silverlight - plug-ins are out there and properly coded sites will help you to install them if needed.

I for one have click2flash installed and don't miss flash ever, nor do I have silverlight, the shockwave plug-in - but somehow it never interrupts my viewing experience except for video - and that is simply a case of lazy developers. I can't believe people thing the only way to embed video is flash or HTML5 - this is meant to be a community of tech-savvy users.

Anyway, back on point - if you want third party software, install it yourself.

*Cough* People use click2flash because they don't like flash ... but can't actually live without without it. Otherwise ... just remove the plug-in!!!

I use CoolBook on my MacBook Air (not the ones announced yesterday!) and it does a decent job of keeping it running cooler and longer even when running flash video - although i also keep this to a minimum with click2flash, h264 youtube beta etc Versions of Flash which utilise hardware acceleration on the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M aren't half as 'bad' as they are made out.
post #87 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

Android users like you are misinformed.
Apple won't allow any plug-ins in Mobile Safari. It's not a "Flash thing."
The MacBook Air runs Mac OS X, which has no restrictions on choice of software.
Apple is not preinstalling the Flash plug-in with the MacBook Air, but they previously did.
AppleInsider speculates this has something to do with Apple's attitude towards Adobe.
Apple licenses PDF from Adobe and has a long history with that company.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #88 of 109
total non news.

In no time most users will end up installing the latest version which runs far better on OS X now anyways. But a headline to get a handful super excited none the less.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

*Cough* People use click2flash because they don't like flash ... but can't actually live without without it. Otherwise ... just remove the plug-in!!!

Yes and No. Without the plugin you get pestered every time to install it. With Click2 Flash, you just get a gray box without any prompts or warnings.

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post #90 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

total non news.

In no time most users will end up installing the latest version which runs far better on OS X now anyways. But a headline to get a handful super excited none the less.

Interesting point. I wonder what build of Safari it ships with. On the iPad for example, it used to show a broken plugin icon but on the latest build it does not - just white space. I wonder how Apple dealt with that on the new Air. Anyone know?

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post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvidal View Post

This movement by Apple convinces me more about a think I've thinking a lot lately. I'm pretty sure that Apple, in someway I don't know for sure, it's going to release some app to develop Flash-like animations and apps that can be compiled as HTML/JavaScript, just like Flash's SWF's. I could put my hands on fire, that thing it's going to be announced next year with Lion.

I'd put money on it.

Why else would they sit on the release of the iOS 4.1 SDK terms until two business days before the release of CS5, only to yank em' later after the damage had been done?
post #92 of 109
any0one here actually -use- flash? It already, -has-, this ability. I'm quite certain it will be greatly expanded as things go.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

I'd put money on it.

Why else would they sit on the release of the iOS 4.1 SDK terms until two business days before the release of CS5, only to yank em' later after the damage had been done?

They changed the terms afterwards to allow game makers to use third party complied code because Apple wants good games on iOS and without the precompiled 3D code it wasn't going to happen. The Flash iOS compiler got a reprieve because of that and the DOJ inquiry. They couldn't have it both ways.

But those are app related issues not in browser animation solutions. I still think we are going to be waiting a long time for an authoring environment for JS/HTML5 that will be usable by non-coders. Plus, the real power of animation in the browser is going to be the canvas tag and the feature set that is currently available to even hard core coders is quite limited compared to Flash.

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post #94 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

So you registered (with an inflammatory name to boot), just to make this comment?
Really?

Really??


Thanks for your input. Now, go run and play.

Grow up mate.
post #95 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

It's now over 10%, nearly 21% if taking the iPad into account.

A small issue, the USA doesn't account for the world, they do not have a 10% market share.

And why count iPads when talking about PC sales, they are not in the same category. Does Mercedes-Benz count their truck and bus sales with their car sales? after all, they all have wheels and can transport stuff.
post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Since I installed Click to Flash I have removed this issue. I just click to allow a particular Flash element I want and all the others stay grayed out (often half a dozen or more an any typical news page). Just running the one you want saves a ton of CPU cycles, battery life and heat!

Click to Flash only solves the Flash problem (most of the time). For any other apps (in isolation or collectively) that peg the CPU, Apple laptops rather quickly get too hot to touch. If this doesn't affect you, fine. It does me and a lot of other people.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

Yes, Flash on Android is incomplete and kludgy and runs down the battery just as fast as it performs. Several more X's in the Android column.
post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Dear steve, on phones I agree with you- but no flash on macs?!! I thought it was meant to be an out-of-the-box experience!

Remember last time there was Flash pre-installed on a new batch of Macs and it turned out to have a GIANT security hole?

Fool me once shame on you.....

Besides, almost every PC out of the box today doesn't have Flash installed either, it takes 10 seconds to download the latest plugin from Adobe's Website.
post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

Not all Androids are created equal.
post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Windows doesnt ship with Flash Player, Java, or a PDF reader.

People need to stop being hypocrites.

Most PC's do come with all that stuff out of the box. Normal people don't understand they are added by Hewlett Packard or Dell or whoever. Not everyone is a tech geek.
post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Most PC's do come with all that stuff out of the box. Normal people don't understand they are added by Hewlett Packard or Dell or whoever. Not everyone is a tech geek.

That's likely why he said that "Windows doesn't ship" instead of "Dell/HP doesn't ship". Try reading next time.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #102 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Android>iOS View Post

My froyo Nexus one has flash installed, and it performs quick and flawless. Apple must have not seen this. That's fine though, just one point in the Android column.

Sorry, that's not a point. Thats -1.
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"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
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post #103 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Most PC's do come with all that stuff out of the box. Normal people don't understand they are added by Hewlett Packard or Dell or whoever. Not everyone is a tech geek.

Dont need to be a tech geek. Just need to know how to drive a mouse around the screen. Every site that has a Flash file will direct the user to Adobe to DL the latest Flash Player Plugin if it doesn't find one in the system.
Thats not very geeky. Besides, with the run towards HTML5 and all the rest of the new technology, Flash is not long for this world....even Nokia....I think we all know how many phones they sell...is gearing toward HTML5 and Qt for App Dev.
SEE Ya Flash...been nice knowing you...and Qt in this case isn't QuickTime
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post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's likely why he said that "Windows doesn't ship" instead of "Dell/HP doesn't ship". Try reading next time.

My point was that mere mortals don't make that distinction. No need to be rude. It doesn't make you any less wrong.
post #105 of 109
10.6 shipped with a vulnerable version of flash. I think Apple is attempting to get away from shipping anything that they do not control.
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post #106 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

My point was that mere mortals don't make that distinction. No need to be rude. It doesn't make you any less wrong.

Except that I wasn't. On either case.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #107 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple will have the Mac App Store in place within 90 days. There is no reason why Adobe cant put their free Flash player on the store for the very simple install that they showed in the demo yesterday. This takes Apple out of the equation for supporting Flash, it lets Adobe get Flash updates to users faster and prevents the oh so dreadful(¡) eventuality that Mac OS X Lion could get finalized with a slightly out of date version of Adobe Flash on it. The horror!¡

Are there any other 3rd-party SW that Apple has been including on their systems that would be better regulated to the Mac App Store? I think this will be a trend and I think this may be the real reason for the exclusion at this point, not the performance of the LV/ULV C2D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

If Apple had flash installed, they would need to change the advertising to reflect the battery life.
Without Flash , up to 7 hours
With Flash, Up to 2 hours.

All hyperbole aside, there may be some truth in that. Steve did say they were getting more stringent with their battery testing and they do list the battery times as being for Wirelesss Browsing.

PS: Apple has had the best battery measurements for at a half decade now. Its too bad that no one but Sony has followed them into the real-world mean usage.

Here is the real reason Apple has removed Flash from the standard OS X install (This won't be limited to the Air):
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the Mac App Store Guidelines

Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be rejected.

This also explains why Apple has depricated Java.

post #108 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildjames View Post

Personally, I think it would be easier to install flash than uninstall it.



I think there comes a point when certain things sour the experience. As acsii pointed out, flash has caused problems in the past. Maybe Apple wanted to make sure nothing would happen again. For instance, if a user kept having their Air overheat, they would blame Apple. Although, it was Adobe's fault.

Flash is not hard to uninstall. Adobe is not responsible for hardware overheating. Everything you just wrote is ridiculous
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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post #109 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

It makes perfect sense.

Lots of first time buyers. They won't understand when their shiny new Air crashes every time they try to surf the web.

Better to simply exclude the functionality.

sensationalist much? I can't remember the last time my mac or my browser crashed and i routinely surf flash sites and or rich internet applications. In fact, i even went as far as to install the 64bit flash plugin and it's remarkably better than the old one.
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