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First reviews of Windows Phone 7 find it lacking - Page 2

post #41 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:21am
Partial Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

Doesn't sound compelling so don't think many will switch because of this.

I think the concept of 'switching to Microsoft' sounds funny when you read it. Must be because I have never actually seen it said before
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #42 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fearing View Post

Who is going to buy a Windows phone,

I just went to buy one and they were sold out, so evidently more than just me.
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post #43 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.

There is no such thing as "Windows Mobile 7".

Windows Phone 7 is very much a new product. Yes it has a core that has has been built from Windows CE, just like iOS came from OSX. In both cases they obviously aren't the same products.


It's not like anyone can blame you for being confused about it. Microsoft are notoriously bad at naming products.

Windows Live users recently received a WTF email stating something along the lines of "Live Mesh is being decommissioned, please sign up for Windows Live Mesh if you want to continue with this service". Ambiguous product labelling at its best!


The fact that Microsoft decided to include Windows in the name of a phone beggars belief. The picture that draws in ones mind is of Windows on a phone (as the name states). It's misleading and inaccurate.

The "Phone" part also wasn't a great choice as this obviously won't migrate well if Microsoft decide to take the OS to other form factors.

The "7" in Windows Phone 7 is more of a "hey guys, people liked Windows 7 so why don't we cash in on the good will" rather than any accurate indication of the major release version.

So in the break down of the name Windows Phone 7 the "Windows" part, the "Phone" part and the "7" part were all poor choices. For Microsoft's sake I hope the $500 million advertising budget helps offset the poor product naming.

Luckily for them it's still a great product, name notwithstanding.
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post #44 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It seems another MS 'Build it and they will come' assumption like many recent products. MS only exist as a corporation because they were able to copy others and then muscle it to success. Those days are over glad to say.

When you raise the bar high enough, its no longer feasible to simply copy and paste, which is what is currently happening with Microsoft. That strategy was viable 25 years ago, but not today. In current industry, you have to be versatile in your overall design and practices.
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post #45 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

except that every review out there says that the UI is innovative, different, easy to use and fast. A large percentage of people still view MS through the lens of M$, and all the rest of the pejorative terms (not entirely without cause). However, this might be a mistake, because all of the indications are that MS is slowly changing its course. We shall see what happens.

I haven't used a WP7 phone, but I've watched a lot of video about the UI.

It is innovative!

1) The lock screen is customizable -- as with Android and lacking in iOS.

2) The Start Screen Active Tiles/Hubs are multi-app aggregators (more succinctly: multi-app notification/polling event aggregators). This is quite innovative!

3) You can pin any app or person to the Start Screen list -- Android and iOS have similar but less flexible features.

4) The lack of copy/paste is somewhat mitigated by intelligent anticipation of "what you are going to do", and "what information you will use" among apps -- especially within a hub.


Of the above, 2), the Start Screen Active Tiles are the true Innovation. However, it is not clear, how useful this will be:
-- beyond a few groupings, how many active tiles are needed?
-- It is not clear how flexible these hubs are- are they predefined by the OS?

Number 3) above, pinning to the Start List, looks like a good idea. In reality, it is similar to putting an alias (to launch an app) on the desktop (Start List on the WP7 Phone). A few may be useful, but too many rapidly creates clutter and confusion.

This is where it begins to break down.

The start list is a convenient place to go to see what needs your attention. If you add too many tiles, it actually is distracting and slows you down. This is especially painful when you scroll to the bottom of a long list of tiles, tap a tile, run the app, then exit the app. You are taken to the Top of the tile list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

What about other apps, not in Active Tiles and not pinned to the Start Screen. Well, that black bar to the right of the Active Tile list (taking up about 1/5 of the display) is used to flick left, where you are presented with an alphabetic list of the names of all apps. You scroll this list then tap the name to select the app. When you exit the app [it appears that] you are taken to the Top of the apps list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

There is no search, and no fast app switching among recent apps (other than back, one app at a time).

This is, likely, OK for the few "system apps" provided and the few other apps available,

But if you have 30-40 apps (we have more than 100) it becomes a navigational challange to run apps. Essentially, you have 2 sequential lists: the Start List and the Alpha App List that you must navigate top to bottom.

Again, I have never used a WP7 phone. I am basing the above on what a beta tester / advocate showed and said in his demos of the phones.

Perhaps the above WP7 deficiencies are what, one of the people quoted in the article was referring to to when he said:

Quote:
Author Joshua Topolsky noted having trouble with third-party apps, especially news readers, crashing. Windows Phone 7 doesn't exactly have the "fit and finish of a fully realized product," wrote Topolsky.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #46 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Yeah, but ...err...this isn't version 1.0 - it's like version 7.0
Or did I read that wrong?

As above. Stupid product naming on Microsoft's behalf.
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post #47 of 140
10/21/10 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Yes, AnandTech did like WP7, and was quite positive. They are a good, relatively unbiased site for information.
I found this statement from the site quite telling.

Anandtech unbiased, that has got to be joke.

But even if you can "accuse" them of being unbalanced, doesn't make them any less moronic (in the broad sense, not the techie one) than usual.

The crux for me is engadget, these guys had been shitting their pants for... the courrier. If they can't recommend this, no one can.

And of course why would we expect any differently. How could microsoft catch up in this area so quickly? They can't really as we've all predicted. What they can do is what they 've always done, use deceptive marketing branding it a windows 7 phone, while it's 1.0 os.

To say "what it does, it does dang well", has got to do be the backhanded compliment of the year.

I guess we now know why ms claimed this phone would give back to the users their private times with their families. I inferred when I saw the add that I was going to be mostly crap so users would use it less. I guess that was the intention by ms.

I still hope they get some people away from the monster that is google, we need all the help we can get from everyone so this all eating monster co. doesn't dominate our mobile lives too.
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post #48 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

This, however, is yet another attempt by MS to repackage their failed Zune platform.

I see that as a good thing. Zune being something of a financial black hole has nothing to do with the quality of the product. If Microsoft have even the tiniest fraction of support for the Zune are they are for WP7 it would have been far more successful.
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post #49 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I haven't used a WP7 phone, but I've watched a lot of video about the UI.

It is innovative!

1) The lock screen is customizable -- as with Android and lacking in iOS.

2) The Start Screen Active Tiles/Hubs are multi-app aggregators (more succinctly: multi-app notification/polling event aggregators). This is quite innovative!

3) You can pin any app or person to the Start Screen list -- Android and iOS have similar but less flexible features.

4) The lack of copy/paste is somewhat mitigated by intelligent anticipation of "what you are going to do", and "what information you will use" among apps -- especially within a hub.


Of the above, 2), the Start Screen Active Tiles are the true Innovation. However, it is not clear, how useful this will be:
-- beyond a few groupings, how many active tiles are needed?
-- It is not clear how flexible these hubs are- are they predefined by the OS?

Number 3) above, pinning to the Start List, looks like a good idea. In reality, it is similar to putting an alias (to launch an app) on the desktop (Start List on the WP7 Phone). A few may be useful, but too many rapidly creates clutter and confusion.

This is where it begins to break down.

The start list is a convenient place to go to see what needs your attention. If you add too many tiles, it actually is distracting and slows you down. This is especially painful when you scroll to the bottom of a long list of tiles, tap a tile, run the app, then exit the app. You are taken to the Top of the tile list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

What about other apps, not in Active Tiles and not pinned to the Start Screen. Well, that black bar to the right of the Active Tile list (taking up about 1/5 of the display) is used to flick left, where you are presented with an alphabetic list of the names of all apps. You scroll this list then tap the name to select the app. When you exit the app [it appears that] you are taken to the Top of the apps list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

There is no search, and no fast app switching among recent apps (other than back, one app at a time).

This is, likely, OK for the few "system apps" provided and the few other apps available,

But if you have 30-40 apps (we have more than 100) it becomes a navigational challange to run apps. Essentially, you have 2 sequential lists: the Start List and the Alpha App List that you must navigate top to bottom.

Again, I have never used a WP7 phone. I am basing the above on what a beta tester / advocate showed and said in his demos of the phones.

Perhaps the above WP7 deficiencies are what, one of the people quoted in the article was referring to to when he said:

Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? If Apple never invented the iPhone, would there be anything like windows phone 7 out there? I mean, look at everyone in the smart phone industry trying their best to copy/paste Apples iPhone design and feel. Seriously, stop jocking Microsoftcrap and call it like it is, windows phone 7 is years late, its going to eventually fail, and if not, enjoy mediocre at best marketshare.
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post #50 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I think Xbox "cross over" games will be important as well.

The idea of playing Call of Duty on on Xbox\\PC then playing some kind of related COD game (not necessarily a FPS) on the bus\\train that can unlock weapons or level upgrades when you go home and play the real COD on Xbox\\PC again is a very compelling.

Non-gamers won't understand that. Gamers will be nodding their heads in agreement.

I'll keep saying it. It's going to be an interesting few years!

Your repeated use of "\\" instead of "/" says volumes (d: Disks?) about where you are coming from

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #51 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

Pedantic yes, but it irritated me so I'll point it out...

The apostrophe is in the wrong place Josh Ong:



It should be ...Windows' app store...



or even Windows's is acceptable.
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post #52 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Not surprisingly, the article puts a slant on the reviews which is not entirely accurate. The reviews have generally been positive, with Mossberg's being the most negative (big surprise there), while noticing the absence of some features in the current release.

For example, the Appleinsider article implies that Engadget did not particularly like WP7, and would not recommend it.

Here is the summary of the Engadget review, which paints a very different picture.

Hardly a glowing review from Engadget, did you read it?
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post #53 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:16am
Land of the msft toys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

Sounds like sort of a mixed bag. Sounds like there is a lot right here but a lot missing as well. Those that must have a msft product will buy this others will go with iPhone or android. Doesn't sound compelling so don't think many will switch because of this.

Maybe if msft took some of their 500 million dollar advertising campaign and spent on actual development, the phone software could compete more readily and they wouldn't have to advertise the heck out of the platform.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #54 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

except that every review out there says that the UI is innovative, different, easy to use and fast. A large percentage of people still view MS through the lens of M$, and all the rest of the pejorative terms (not entirely without cause). However, this might be a mistake, because all of the indications are that MS is slowly changing its course. We shall see what happens.

If chopping up title of pages / headings is innovative then I'd rather not bother!
Style over function!!!
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post #55 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer Rosa View Post

Looks like a desirable phone and when they allow gamers to add to their Xbox achievements it will be very popular.

"Gamers" (XBox gamers anyway), are a tiny category though, which points to the reason the WinPhone7 will eventually fail.

People who follow Windows and Microsoft are obsessed with last decade's market share arguments. Unless WP7 gets a substantial portion of the market, it will be considered to have "failed" even by it's supporters for that reason.

Given the fact that everyone else is playing on a big world-wide field and Microsoft is counting on a handful of XBox gamers, it just isn't going to happen. At some point Microsoft will go more corporate with the product, and maybe even buy up RIM as it fails for the same reason. In the end the consumer market is just so much bigger that it won't matter.
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post #56 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Yeah, but ...err...this isn't version 1.0 - it's like version 7.0

Or did I read that wrong?

C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

As above. Stupid product naming on Microsoft's behalf.

In a way, it is version 1.0 of the new OS. However, it's technically version 7.0, as this is supposed to be an upgrade to Windows Mobile 6.5. It's kind of like going from Windows XP to Windows 7 (bypassing Vista).
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #57 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

When you raise the bar high enough, its no longer feasible to simply copy and paste, which is what is currently happening with Microsoft. That strategy was viable 25 years ago, but not today. In current industry, you have to be versatile in your overall design and practices.

Precisely.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #58 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I haven't used a WP7 phone, but I've watched a lot of video about the UI.

It is innovative!

1) The lock screen is customizable -- as with Android and lacking in iOS.

2) The Start Screen Active Tiles/Hubs are multi-app aggregators (more succinctly: multi-app notification/polling event aggregators). This is quite innovative!

3) You can pin any app or person to the Start Screen list -- Android and iOS have similar but less flexible features.

4) The lack of copy/paste is somewhat mitigated by intelligent anticipation of "what you are going to do", and "what information you will use" among apps -- especially within a hub.


Of the above, 2), the Start Screen Active Tiles are the true Innovation. However, it is not clear, how useful this will be:
-- beyond a few groupings, how many active tiles are needed?
-- It is not clear how flexible these hubs are- are they predefined by the OS?

Number 3) above, pinning to the Start List, looks like a good idea. In reality, it is similar to putting an alias (to launch an app) on the desktop (Start List on the WP7 Phone). A few may be useful, but too many rapidly creates clutter and confusion.

This is where it begins to break down.

The start list is a convenient place to go to see what needs your attention. If you add too many tiles, it actually is distracting and slows you down. This is especially painful when you scroll to the bottom of a long list of tiles, tap a tile, run the app, then exit the app. You are taken to the Top of the tile list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

What about other apps, not in Active Tiles and not pinned to the Start Screen. Well, that black bar to the right of the Active Tile list (taking up about 1/5 of the display) is used to flick left, where you are presented with an alphabetic list of the names of all apps. You scroll this list then tap the name to select the app. When you exit the app [it appears that] you are taken to the Top of the apps list, not back to where you were. Big inconinvenience.

There is no search, and no fast app switching among recent apps (other than back, one app at a time).

This is, likely, OK for the few "system apps" provided and the few other apps available,

But if you have 30-40 apps (we have more than 100) it becomes a navigational challange to run apps. Essentially, you have 2 sequential lists: the Start List and the Alpha App List that you must navigate top to bottom.

Again, I have never used a WP7 phone. I am basing the above on what a beta tester / advocate showed and said in his demos of the phones.

Perhaps the above WP7 deficiencies are what, one of the people quoted in the article was referring to to when he said:

The active tiles do not aggregate emails for a start off, you need a tile for each and every email account you want to view on your phone, there is NO unified Inbox. So say you have 4 email accounts, well that is 4 tiles to look at!!!!
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post #59 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Your repeated use of "\\" instead of "/" says volumes (d: Disks?) about where you are coming from

I'm afraid if I get excited with "/" and hit // the rest of my post will look like this
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post #60 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:44am
Quote:
The important thing to note, I think, is that WP7 complaints all seem to revolve around these extra features that will be added in, where a lot of complaints about iPhone and Android revolve around fundamental core issues of the platform

iOS / Android have fundamental core issues? As a developer, I do not feel very limited by either environment, and do not see significant barriers to future performance upgrades.

How is WP7 better? Just because it is newer? Please elaborate.
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post #61 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

In a way, it is version 1.0 of the new OS. However, it's technically version 7.0, as this is supposed to be an upgrade to Windows Mobile 6.5. It's kind of like going from Windows XP to Windows 7 (bypassing Vista).

Maybe.. but I see it as a little more drastic than WinXP to Win7. Applications written for Windows Mobile 6.5 don't even run on WP7.

The difference is more like WinCE to Zune, or Windows 2000 to Xbox (share components, fundamentally different platform).
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post #62 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Maybe.. but I see it as a little more drastic than WinXP to Win7. Applications written for Windows Mobile 6.5 don't even run on WP7.

The difference is more like WinCE to Zune, or Windows 2000 to Xbox (share components, fundamentally different platform).

All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.

All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #63 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? If Apple never invented the iPhone, would there be anything like windows phone 7 out there? I mean, look at everyone in the smart phone industry trying their best to copy/paste Apples iPhone design and feel. Seriously, stop jocking Microsoftcrap and call it like it is, windows phone 7 is years late, its going to eventually fail, and if not, enjoy mediocre at best marketshare.

I have had dealings wit Microsoft dating back to 1979.

I have a strong dislike and distrust for the Microsoft company, their style and ethics --based on personal experience as a Microsoft customer and reseller.

I [mostly] dislike Microsoft products -- Excel and SQL Server are the exceptions.

I have never owned a PC, and, likely, never will.

I go out of my way to avoid Microsoft products if an acceptable alternative is available.

The only Microsoft product I currently own is Windows XP SP2 -- that I bought so I could run a few Windows-only apps using Parallels. I have not done this in over a year.

I have purchased products in every Apple category since the Apple ]{

I like Apple and Apple products

We currently own 7 Macs, 2 iPads, 7 iPhones and 15 or so iPods -- no competing products

A large part of my portfolio is invested in AAPL stock -- some shares originally purchased for $9 (accounting for splits)

Apple has been very good to me


However;

I try very hard not to let the above bias my opinions when making purchasing and investment decisions.

I believe that one of the reasons that the Mac acceptance has grown, is because, with Intel Macs, it is easy to run Windows apps on a Mac-- removing a big deterrent for many users,

I try to look at every technology product with an open mind -- from a user standpoint and from a potential investor standpoint'.

When interested, I examine a product in detail and try to make an objective evaluation.


Short story, long:

"Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? "

Yes! There are Innovations in the WP7 UI that are innovative -- as I tried to detail in my post.

There, also are deficiencies -- but I suspect these will be overcome with future enhancements:
-- system-wide search
-- exit app returns to where you were
-- fast app switching (when multi-tasking is added)
-- copy paste.

When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.

I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.

Personally, I think WP7 is too little too late -- but I am willing to watch and wait!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #64 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

"Gamers" (XBox gamers anyway), are a tiny category though, which points to the reason the WinPhone7 will eventually fail.

Xbox owners account for 22 million potential WP7 sales a year, and the number of people interested in a phone with a compelling gaming experience would be higher.

Xbox Live integration isn't all WP7 is about. It's just a feather in their cap. Something to entice those 22+ million potential buyers each year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

At some point Microsoft will go more corporate with the product

No doubt. I actually think it's already business/enterprise (see that Applebaum!?!?) focused.

I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.
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post #65 of 140
10/21/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.

All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.

True that.
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post #66 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It seems another MS 'Build it and they will come' assumption like many recent products. MS only exist as a corporation because they were able to copy others and then muscle it to success. Those days are over glad to say.

don't be so sure. am seeing those same techniques oozing out....
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post #67 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:02am
Zune UI and tile UI are complete turnoffs for me. I think MS should have released a business phone to compete with Blackberry (ie full exchange support, great office implementation, remote support, remote wipe, conference calling, simple work oriented UI with no distractions, world phone with 4 base bands, CDMA/GSM Antennas etc), rather then a consumer phone to complete with apple and google.

As I said before I doubt we will see much past v2 of the Windows 7 Phone, if that.
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Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #68 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

The active tiles do not aggregate emails for a start off, you need a tile for each and every email account you want to view on your phone, there is NO unified Inbox. So say you have 4 email accounts, well that is 4 tiles to look at!!!!

Ahh... Good to know that!

Is that a restriction or a design deficiency that can be addresses in a later release.

I suspect it is the latter.

Like Apple could add a customizable lock screen with aggregator widgets -- if they'd ever get around to it!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #69 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.

LOL !!
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post #70 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:11am
Might be re-iterating someone else's point, but everyone keeps saying "give them time, they are starting off just like apple and android"

this is windows phone 7! They've been doing moble OS for YEARS and have many more years of "expertise" than apple or google, yet they continue to suck everytime. I had a WM5 phone for about 2 years. I couldn't tell you how many problems I had in those years.

At this point if I couldn't have an iphone, I still most certainly would never consider another windows mobile...
2010 17" MBP and many i devices.

Former Owner of multiple generations of Mac's all the way back to the Performa 6400.
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2010 17" MBP and many i devices.

Former Owner of multiple generations of Mac's all the way back to the Performa 6400.
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post #71 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

No doubt. I actually think it's already business/enterprise (see that Applebaum!?!?) focused.

I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.

I agree with both your punctuation and your perception

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #72 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.

I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.

My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares

Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.

Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.
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post #73 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Windows 3.1 wasn't as good as Mac either, but eventually Windows '95 came out. And Lord knows Microsoft have enough money to just keep on going as long as they have to.

Yes, that's always been Microsoft's strategy. They pursue market leaders, always, until the market leaders trip up. Anyone remember Windows CE 1.0 and how it was a joke compared to Palm OS (at the time)? Well, Palm tripped up. Same with Xbox: eventually, Sony tripped up. Netscape tripped up. Borland tripped up. IBM tripped up. Yahoo tripped up.

But as long as Apple keeps executing as it has, people will still line up 1000 deep to enter an Apple Store (like they did in China). You won't get that from Microsoft.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #74 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:17am
I wonder how much Microsoft is going to charge people for this lack luster product! This should be interesting times indeed, maybe this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft as we once knew them

By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?
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post #75 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Which one?

It doesn't matter. It just has to use WP7.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #76 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider View Post

LOL !!

In fairness, I don't know how meaningful the total number of apps (this from an iOS developer).

I am reasonably sure that the major titles/categories will be well represented on WP7.

On the enterprise side, likely, there will be a few key apps provide by MS, Cisco, SAP, etc. The others will be specially written by/for the particular company.

The big question in my mind is:

Will the whole WP7 ecosystem (devices, OS features, apps, development tools/developers) be robust enough by July 2011.

The second question is what about the tablet market -- I don't believe that a tablet running Windows 7 is going to cut it -- not even gussied up with tights and tutu.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #77 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

I wonder how much Microsoft is going to charge people for this lack luster product! This should be interesting times indeed, maybe this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft as we once knew them

By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?

Microsoft's leadership culture is patterned after Bill Gates' predisposition towards hyper-competitive behavior, so these guys are less motivated by making money at WP7 than the idea that they're the underdog and they're gonna compete until they win back market share, then once they've achieved that, they will sit on the business (as they had planned to with IE6 after vanquishing Netscape) until another competitor takes that market share away, then they go right back to being the underdog, and the cycle begins again. Microsoft is fixated on dominating, Apple (under Steve) is fixated on designing insanely great. The results show. WP7 is what it is because Microsoft wants that market share back. If it delights their customers, that is incidental.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #78 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares

Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.

Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.

Ahh... but a WP7 success could lead to many investment decisions -- buying and selling, involving suppliers, etc.

,
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #79 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I think MS should have released a business phone to compete with Blackberry (ie full exchange support, great office implementation, remote support, remote wipe, conference calling, simple work oriented UI with no distractions, world phone with 4 base bands, CDMA/GSM Antennas etc), rather then a consumer phone to complete with apple and Google.

All that, and more, is coming.

I'd say by this time next year IT Admins will be able to get a fleet of Windows Phones and activate/deactivate them, configure access policies, force software installs/un-installs and generally manage them as if they were on the phone itself... all from existing Windows Servers and all based on existing company access policies.

You give them god mode and they will love you for it. IT Admins as funny like that.

Of course management will keep their iPhones, but everyone else won't get a choice.
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post #80 of 140
10/21/10 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Ahh... but a WP7 success could lead to many investment decisions -- buying and selling, involving suppliers, etc.

At which point it gets too complicated for me and I tap out.
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