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Apple to sell iLife, iWork apps individually via Mac App Store - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I want to make sure I am hearing most of you correctly. You will now have to pay for what once was free and you are happy about that....

Did I get that correct?

When was iLife free? You get it included with every Mac, but it was never free, at least not since I switched. If you want the new version for an older Mac, they sell it separately for a few bucks. Now you can just buy the pieces and parts you are interested in.

OBTW, SJ said in yesterday's keynote that iLife is still included with every Mac.

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I want to make sure I am hearing most of you correctly. You will now have to pay for what once was free and you are happy about that....

Did I get that correct?

iLife has never been free. If you buy a computer it is included on the install (hardly free). Yet if you want new future features of iLife after computer purchase you have always needed to pay a nominal fee to upgrade. I believe that is changing once the mac app store is available. I believe all future upgrades will be free (assuming they follow the iPhone app store model), but we can't be sure until apple makes official announcement of app store policies.
post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

I paid $1800 for a laptop....pretty sure I'm not asking for anything for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Great Answer!

Not really. He bought a laptop and got exactly what he paid for. Fair deal.

But the we all know you don't care, you only troll.
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post #44 of 71
I sure like the idea of software being licensed for all of my home computers. I have three Macs and it's always been a pain when I upgrade one and then the iLife Apps are not the same on the older ones.
post #45 of 71
Now, if they get a database module, something with at least the capability of the DB in AW6, I will be a very happy person.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

When was iLife free? You get it included with every Mac, but it was never free, at least not since I switched. If you want the new version for an older Mac, they sell it separately for a few bucks. Now you can just buy the pieces and parts you are interested in.

I recall iLife being free when Apple was doing its switch campaign. Then they switched and started charging.

$15 seems kind of expensive for iPhoto when it is a bunch of UI tweeks like fullscreen, different slideshows and more stuff to purchase like books and cards. I will wait for reviews before deciding. I think they should drop it under $5 to promote the App store.
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

At one point in the presentation yesterday, I thought SJ mentioned that an app that is downloaded on one Mac can be used on all of one's home/personal Macs. In other words, I assume, the app by app download is now priced more like a 'family' app.

Anyone else catch that, or am I misinterpreting things?

Yes, he did say that and I posted a question about it. But as I am an impatient sucker I went out and bought the family pack of iLife anyway. (Not sure why as I could just pay for the single and install it on all our Macs) My impatience bit me in the ass because iMovie already played up has cause all sorts of issues. 'Must wait, can't wait' is my modus operandi, I'm afraid.

Anyway, yes, when the App Store appears you can run any purchased app on all your home computers, is what he said. He didn't limit it to 5. As with IOS each device needs to log in under a single login, of course.
post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

I think the best thing Apple's done to stem piracy has been to price their apps reasonably. With my corporate discount (most people who work for a larger company has access to discounts through Apple), iWork cost me $65. Even if I didn't prefer it wholeheartedly to Office, I'd still spend the full $79 price over $200 for Microsoft's version. I think if Apple doubled the cost of the software, a lot more people would pirate it. But with what they're charging, I think it's a bargain and well worth the cost.

Even the prosumer apps like Final Cut Express, Logic Express, and Aperture are all running $199 and well worth the price for what you get.

If you're right though (although I suspect piracy is simply a net benefit and not a primary goal of the App Store), Apple's scheme also gives us a great advantage. Typically software is sold on a per-seat license. The App Store ties a license to a user account, and theoretically I should be able to install my iWork software on all of my systems.

The obvious drawback however is for families. Does that mean that my copy of iWork will not be usable by my children? Will I have to pay $20 so that he can use Pages even though I've already got a copy? I hope there's an answer for this shortcoming...

Steve Jobs said that software downloads could be downloaded once and used on all of your personal computers.
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atanner View Post

Steve Jobs said that software downloads could be downloaded once and used on all of your personal computers.

Yeah I'll have to go watch the Keynote (unfortunately my work machine doesn't yet have Snow Leopard so I couldn't watch live yesterday). I do still wonder though if that means on all your computers and on all their accounts (when my son is old enough to use a computer, he'll have his own login with restrictions; he'll eventually need software like Pages for school work).

I guess we'll have all the answers in the next ninety days though
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

Seriously, you think Apple can't afford to pay the developers? You think the profit from this software makes or breaks their bottom line? This is chump change for Apple. Do they charge for iTunes?

I disagree. Software creation is a highly labor intensive process that requires exceptional skills that are scarce. In fact, Apple hardware sales does subsidize Apple software development. I see no reason as to why it should be 100%, and it is Apple's decision.

Think of the Windows platform. You pay big bucks for any major software upgrade of Windows if you want to move up from what is already installed on your Windows platform computer. That is because Microsoft has a different business model whereby most of their revenues is from software licenses to OEM manufacturers and enterprise IT. Most individuals transition from one version of Windows to another via the process of buying a new computer with the Windows software upgrade already purchased by an OEM and installed by an OEM.

In the case of Linux: in practice, major commercial firms contribute a great deal to that open source platform for their mutual benefit. It is, in an informal sense, a consortium.

Software development has to be paid for in some manner just like hardware development and manufacturing, assembly, and shipping.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

They should be free and just update through the Apple Software Update. How many billions in sales does the Mac do? It is nice you get it free with a new Mac, but it should just be free for upgrades too.

I'm going to try your way of thinking with Ford. The 2011 Edge received significant upgrades over my wife's 2010 model. I'm with you, I think Ford owes it to their customers to provide free upgrades for life.

And before you go saying "That's different," it's not. Although one is a company that sells intellectual property and the other sells physical property they are both in the business of selling. I'd love to know what you do in life. Do you give free lifetime upgrades for the work you do?
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #52 of 71
Duh.

Why is this news? It's already obvious from Apple's screenshots and the App Store demo from the keynote.
post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

I paid $1800 for a laptop....pretty sure I'm not asking for anything for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Great Answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I want to make sure I am hearing most of you correctly. You will now have to pay for what once was free and you are happy about that....

Did I get that correct?

Actually you are all fools.

You can get a laptop and all hardware/software in it for free! It is a little known secret that when you walk in to the Apple store you can ask the clerk to pry off the alt/option key and then they will then just give you the laptop.

You see the company that makes that little key charges Apple $1800. No key, no pay! Go ahead and try it tonight. All I ask is that you keep it a secret here on the forums. We can't let the rest of the world know about this loophole... \
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Great Answer!

How was your vacation?

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

If you buy a Sony laptop for $1800, do they give you any productivity or lifestyle applications for free (with free updates and upgrades) or do you just get shovelware?

Yes, they let me download Windows Live Essentials.....for Free.
post #56 of 71
Will any of those apps be 64bit? I want a recap article on how many Anal-lists got all of those predictions WRONG.

Like iDVD making an exit, 64bit iLife, a secret new app in iLife, iOS touch screen iMacs.....etc. They iHype is making the real announcments look boring.

Title the blog post "Jon Grubber gets it WRONG AGAIN!!!".
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I want to make sure I am hearing most of you correctly. You will now have to pay for what once was free and you are happy about that....

Did I get that correct?

You only get it free when you buy a Mac otherwise it is a cost which is a low price point.

I am so looking forward to this. I use Pages and Numbers often but I rarely if ever use Keynote so buying it is a waste of time for me. I'd rather have just the apps that I want to use so this app store is going to be the best thing for getting the software I want.

Thanks Apple although Bodega has been doing this for a while how many people have heard of Bodega? Having the app store on the Mac will bring this store and therefore more sales to a great deal more developers.
post #58 of 71
This is great news. I'm using the same version of iLife (06?) that came with my macbook in 2007. I've been wanting to upgrade, but $80 for using basically iPhoto (I don't use Garageband, and I've only opened iMovie a handful of times) has never seemed worth it.

Edit - after reading it again, I see they've lowered the price to $49. Still, it's a net win for me.
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

I paid $1800 for a laptop....pretty sure I'm not asking for anything for free.

Yeah, I know. Apple should be serving that up with a daily cafe latte too, given that they are holding a gun to our heads demanding purchase of their overpriced products for which we have no free will to exercise.
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

... I do still wonder though if that means on all your computers and on all their accounts (when my son is old enough to use a computer, he'll have his own login with restrictions; he'll eventually need software like Pages for school work).

I guess we'll have all the answers in the next ninety days though

This is my concern as well. I always buy the family packs because we have additional computers using different AppleIDs. I hope they will still be selling the family packs to accommodate this situation.
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

When was iLife free? You get it included with every Mac, but it was never free, at least not since I switched. If you want the new version for an older Mac, they sell it separately for a few bucks. Now you can just buy the pieces and parts you are interested in.

OBTW, SJ said in yesterday's keynote that iLife is still included with every Mac.

I guess I have not owned a MAC long enough to have to pay for an iLife update...... I have only been using Mac's since June of 2009.....
post #62 of 71
And where the hell is iWork in all this? I want to use iWork on the iPad, but I have '08 on the Mac, which isn't compatible with the iPad version. Since there's no upgrade pricing for iWork, I didn't want to buy the almost 2 year old '09 when '11 was just around the corner. But how far exactly around the corner is it? sheesh.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

but since they are now separate components in the app store, Apple is not required to simultaneously upgrade all at the same time as they would have to for a new DVD.

iDVD and iWeb NOT being updated with the other three, despite being on the same DVD proves the contrary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

When was iLife free? You get it included with every Mac, but it was never free,

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

iLife has never been free. If you buy a computer it is included on the install (hardly free).

ilife preinstalled is part of that 'Apple Tax' that naysayers always scream about. part of that giant chunk of money that is 'pure profit' from the hardware that costs like 1/5th what they are pricing it. Same with Mac OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c-ray View Post

Now, if they get a database module, something with at least the capability of the DB in AW6, I will be a very happy person.

They aren't likely to add a database program after buying Filemaker and getting Filemaker Pro and Bento

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Will any of those apps be 64bit?

I doubt there is a rush to convert ilife or iwork to 64 bit since they are consumer apps. The real issue is Final Cut and Logic. Those are the programs in need of the conversion.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

Yes, they let me download Windows Live Essentials.....for Free.

I wouldn't use it even if they paid me...
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Can you please elaborate, because so far I've found everything that people claim arn't in '09

Okay as I recall there is one thing where the price drops from the top, and has a smoke-like effect when it hits the "floor". Also, there's another one where it's a price, and then the numbers kind of fall off like the glue came loose.

I remember this in the Apple presentations where I thought, Hey, that's new.
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

And where the hell is iWork in all this? I want to use iWork on the iPad, but I have '08 on the Mac, which isn't compatible with the iPad version. Since there's no upgrade pricing for iWork, I didn't want to buy the almost 2 year old '09 when '11 was just around the corner. But how far exactly around the corner is it? sheesh.

Ditto. If there was one let down as far as I'm concerned, it was the no mention of a new iWork update. Maybe they have some kind of deal worked out with MS to not mention the iWork Suite since MS is heavily advertising their new suite? Doesn't make much sense.

Oh well, I'll keep using iWork '08 for now...
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #67 of 71
I will like being able to get iphoto and imovie without having to get garageband and iDVD.
post #68 of 71
The first time I tried to use iPhoto and discovered what a useless piece of contrived garbage it was, I immediately developed a strong aversion to any Apple software. People who have a healthy attitude toward the respective roles of the user of software vs. the designer, do not write software the way this software is written. It is written by idiots, for idiots.

When you right-click (or secondary click) on the icon for an image file in Finder, you do not get the option to open the file in iPhoto. You have to scroll to "Open With" and then "Other", and select iPhoto from the long list of apps in the applications folder. This by itself strongly suggests that something is seriously screwed up.

You can select iPhoto, but then everything is just crazy. The contrived concept of "importing" the image file into iPhoto then occurs, but it occurs silently, without you having any awareness. What you do not realize is that after editing the image, you will not be able to save it in its original location without going through the ludicrous, contrived nonsense of "exporting" the file. You end up with untitled "Events" in iPhoto corresponding the different instances of implicit imports done in this manner.

There are editing tools, and there is the suggestion of the capability to change the size, i.e., to reduce the pixel count. This capability is suggested in the iPhoto help, where one of the subheadings under "Editing Photos" is "Adjusting photo size and orientation". But if you read every word linked under that subheading, there is no mention whatsoever of the capability to change the size of the photo. Of, the notion of size for an electronic photo is dubious anywhere, since it corresponds more intuitively to the size of the file than to anything else. The capability should exist to reduce the number of pixels or, without changing the number of pixels, re-apply the jpeg compression in order to reduce the size of the file while keeping the pixel count the same. These capabilities are among the most very basic capabilities that any photo editing software should provide. But unless these capabilities have been cleverly hidden from the user, they do not exist in iPhoto.

But you can perform other types of photo editing, i.e., change the contrast, color saturation, etc. Per convention, intuition, and common sense, the changes do not get permanently written to the file until you save it. So you click on "File" in the menu bar and look for "Save". At least, this is what you assume because this is the most obvious sort of behavior for an application of this sort. But not iPhoto. iPhoto is "special". Instead, you click on "Export", and then proceed to save the photo, potentially as a duplicate copy. But if you save the photo as a duplicate copy, are the edits you made also applied to the original copy that you used to open iPhoto? What if you don't export at all? Are the changes made to the original photo, or lost, or what exactly?

None of this makes a whit of sense, and it is only scratching the surface. iPhoto is the most useless piece of unmitigated junkware that I have ever encountered. But it isn't all that different from Apple's other application software. All of it is encumbered with horrifically contrived perspectives on how the user should interact with the computer. With all of it, you have abandon any hope of interaction in any straightforward, intuitive manner.

The idea that I would have a piece of software that allows me to edit a photo, but that leaves me with no clue as to whether the changes I made are written permanently to that file, or what actions are necessary and sufficient to cause those changes to be permanently applied to the file, is so utterly, manifestly preposterous that it boggles the mind to think that anyone of sound mind would write software to behave in this manner. It boggles the mind.
post #69 of 71
I think either you're very used to iOS apps, or that Windows apps are more suitable for your use. I'm not being an ass here, just saying it like it is.

Or maybe someone at the Apple Store didn't give you a quick run-through of how iPhoto works.

iPhoto is not perfect, but the concepts it presents are very different from all the micro-managing tasks you want to do. It's part of the fundamental differences on the Mac.

The idea is that once you add a photo to iPhoto, it will be saved, edited and stored at the best possible quality while taking up the least amount of disk space necessary.

You don't need to right-click anything. Just drag the file onto the iPhoto icon on the Dock to import into iPhoto. In Safari, right-click on any image to add it to iPhoto.

When images are added to iPhoto, you don't have to worry where the file is, what it is doing, how big it is, how many pixels, and so on. It's just there. There's enough space on your hard drive nowadays. You don't need to Export or re-Import, just Merge the Events together for photos you want to group together.

When you edit a photo, click Edit, do your changes, then click Done and that will save the changes. If you were in full-screen mode, click the X on the bottom right-hand side to exit full-screen mode and save the changes. Don't worry, the original photo is always stored. You can click on Photos > Revert To Original in the menu bar to revert to the original photo at any time. Be careful, this will undo all your changes permanently.

When a photo is edited, I do believe a modified version of the photo is also saved as an actual file, but in any case the moment you click Done or the X, your edits are saved. These edits you made are non-destructive, even without Revert To Original the edits you made to the photo can be adjusted further. The next time you go into Edit mode, you'll see the settings you changed, for example in the Adjust panel.

Just relax and let iPhoto do it's thing. Or, as I mentioned, maybe this Mac stuff is not suitable for your needs. Or simply iPhoto is not suitable for your needs. Consider Adobe Lightroom or Aperture.

[BE CAREFUL HERE AND STRONGLY RECEOMMENDED YOU BACKUP YOUR HOME FOLDER BEFORE DOING THIS PART] If you want to explore further, go to Pictures in your Home folder, right-click on iPhoto Library file and click on Show Package Contents. These are the actual files in your iPhoto Library as seen by the system. Again, don't worry too much about it and don't touch any of the files when you Show Package Contents unless you know what you're doing.

Years of using Windows has conditioned our thinking and is the predominant challenge the Mac and new Mac users face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post

The first time I tried to use iPhoto and discovered what a useless piece of contrived garbage it was, I immediately developed a strong aversion to any Apple software. People who have a healthy attitude toward the respective roles of the user of software vs. the designer, do not write software the way this software is written. It is written by idiots, for idiots.

When you right-click (or secondary click) on the icon for an image file in Finder, you do not get the option to open the file in iPhoto. You have to scroll to "Open With" and then "Other", and select iPhoto from the long list of apps in the applications folder. This by itself strongly suggests that something is seriously screwed up.

You can select iPhoto, but then everything is just crazy. The contrived concept of "importing" the image file into iPhoto then occurs, but it occurs silently, without you having any awareness. What you do not realize is that after editing the image, you will not be able to save it in its original location without going through the ludicrous, contrived nonsense of "exporting" the file. You end up with untitled "Events" in iPhoto corresponding the different instances of implicit imports done in this manner.

There are editing tools, and there is the suggestion of the capability to change the size, i.e., to reduce the pixel count. This capability is suggested in the iPhoto help, where one of the subheadings under "Editing Photos" is "Adjusting photo size and orientation". But if you read every word linked under that subheading, there is no mention whatsoever of the capability to change the size of the photo. Of, the notion of size for an electronic photo is dubious anywhere, since it corresponds more intuitively to the size of the file than to anything else. The capability should exist to reduce the number of pixels or, without changing the number of pixels, re-apply the jpeg compression in order to reduce the size of the file while keeping the pixel count the same. These capabilities are among the most very basic capabilities that any photo editing software should provide. But unless these capabilities have been cleverly hidden from the user, they do not exist in iPhoto.

But you can perform other types of photo editing, i.e., change the contrast, color saturation, etc. Per convention, intuition, and common sense, the changes do not get permanently written to the file until you save it. So you click on "File" in the menu bar and look for "Save". At least, this is what you assume because this is the most obvious sort of behavior for an application of this sort. But not iPhoto. iPhoto is "special". Instead, you click on "Export", and then proceed to save the photo, potentially as a duplicate copy. But if you save the photo as a duplicate copy, are the edits you made also applied to the original copy that you used to open iPhoto? What if you don't export at all? Are the changes made to the original photo, or lost, or what exactly?

None of this makes a whit of sense, and it is only scratching the surface. iPhoto is the most useless piece of unmitigated junkware that I have ever encountered. But it isn't all that different from Apple's other application software. All of it is encumbered with horrifically contrived perspectives on how the user should interact with the computer. With all of it, you have abandon any hope of interaction in any straightforward, intuitive manner.

The idea that I would have a piece of software that allows me to edit a photo, but that leaves me with no clue as to whether the changes I made are written permanently to that file, or what actions are necessary and sufficient to cause those changes to be permanently applied to the file, is so utterly, manifestly preposterous that it boggles the mind to think that anyone of sound mind would write software to behave in this manner. It boggles the mind.
post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post

<snip to save space...>
None of this makes a whit of sense
<snip to save space...>

None of this makes a whit of sense precicely because you were previously brainwashed by exceptionally poor software design to make you think it is your job to micromanage EVERY action taken on your computer. Just let the machine handle the details and let yourself be in charge of what you want to happen t the creative level. It all works. The originals and the edited versions are both properly managed without you having to remember to do anything, a functionality I'm sure you will know comes in handy on those inevitable occasions when somebody distracts your old forced-to-micromanage-workflow and you nuke an original.
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post #71 of 71
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