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Apple deprecates its release of Java for Mac OS X

post #1 of 74
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Apple's latest release of Java SE 6 for Mac OS X marks the end of the company's efforts to maintain Java releases for the Mac platform itself.

Yesterday, the company released "Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3," which brought Apple's bundled support for Java SE 6 in Snow Leopard up to version 1.6.0_22, and "Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 8," which similarly updated Leopard.

However, the company now notes that "as of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated.

"This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products."

Jettisoning Java

Apple has also reorganized how Java runtime homes are installed on Mac OS X, apparently in an effort to facilitate third party releases of the Java virtual machine. This would enable Oracle (which recently acquired Sun) to release Java for the Mac itself, rather than waiting for Apple do maintain its own Java release for Mac users.

Apple's bundled Java Preferences app (below) enables multiple Java releases to be installed at once, from different vendors, and allows the user to prioritize which will be used.



Apple's releases of Java for the Mac have long dragged behind the official, latest builds produced by Sun. However, Sun's Java was once a critical priority for Apple as it worked to launch Mac OS X and draw interest from Java developers in bringing their code to the Mac platform.

Since the late 90s however, Java as a platform for creating desktop software has failed to take off, leaving it largely relegated to serve as a server side platform in web application servers and custom enterprise development.

As Java receded from its expected role in providing a cross platform "write once, run anywhere" environment, Apple has increasingly focused its attentions on Cocoa on the Mac desktop, and subsequently Cocoa Touch for mobile devices.

No Java on iOS

In fact, because there's so much overlap between Java and Cocoa, Apple took the rather bold step of leaving Java off the iPhone entirely upon its launch in 2007, a step that made the iOS' Cocoa Touch the only way to deliver native apps. While chief executive Steve Jobs initially said Adobe Flash was a "maybe" on the iPhone, he was clear that Java was getting a "no" from Apple on the iPhone from the start.

Putting Java on the iPhone would have doubled its system software runtimes while only encouraging existing mobile developers to bring their weak Java Micro Edition apps to the iPhone. As things worked out, Apple's focus on Cocoa Touch resulted in a unified library of hundreds of thousands of apps that don't require a separate Java runtime and all the work that would be involved in maintaining both Cocoa Touch and a port of Sun's Java ME.

In contrast, RIM's Blackberry OS and Google's Android are both Java-based platforms; RIM hosts a licensed Java Virtual Machine while Google opted to create a Java-like environment that did not license its technology from Sun. That has since resulted in a lawsuit from Oracle, which claims Google's Android software infringes on its Java-related patents acquired from Sun.

Being exclusively Cocoa Touch, Apple's iOS devices benefit from having a single development environment and runtime in that the company isn't tasked with maintaining parallel versions of code that do the same thing just to support different platforms. Apple has also focused its efforts into building something the company owns, rather than benefitting the ecosystem of the third party Java platform.

Java on the Mac

A decade ago, Apple took the lead in bringing Java to the Mac out of fear that its unique platform would grow obsolete were it to fail to hop on the Java bandwagon. Sun continued to maintain Java VM releases for other platforms, while Microsoft actually took Java and turned it into a way to write Windows applications, splintering Sun's original intent of Java.

At this point however, Apple is not desperate for the attentions of developers. Its Mac platform now has greater than 20 percent market share among US retail PC purchases, it has hundreds of thousands of developers, and its core platform is being buoyed up by a massive influx of new iPhone and iPad developers on the iOS end.

With the announcement of its Mac App Store, Apple is making it clear that, while development of various platforms can continue on the Mac, Apple's focus will be on the modern Cocoa. And more importantly, the business model supporting easy to buy apps and instant downloads will benefit Apple's own Cocoa platform exclusively.

Apple's submission guidelines specifically target Java and Rosetta (PowerPC legacy code) as being among the "deprecated or optionally installed technologies" that approved apps must avoid. While developers can continue to release Java apps for Mac, or use Macs to build server-side projects in Java, it won't play any role in creating software for the Mac App Store.

It remains to be see how important Oracle views the availability of Java on the Mac; while Apple isn't immediately yanking its support for Java on the Mac entirely, it is committing fewer resources to maintain its own Java releases, likely with the hope or assurance that Oracle will step in and support the Mac as it does other platforms, just as Adobe maintains Flash for the Mac itself, and as Microsoft maintains Silverlight for the Mac on its own.
post #2 of 74
Uh, if Oracle doesn't release updates I will be very disappointed. I rely on Java for many daily processes, this could result in me purchasing a PC or using a virtualization application to port windows on my Macs.


For instance, Runescape - MMORPG - The No.1 Free Online Multiplayer Game runs through java, has over five million monthly 'paying' subscribers uses Java. Lets say 20% of Runescape's users use Mac what will they all do when Runescape decides to stay up with the latest Java, rather continue support for old editions? Hmm... This really worries me.
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post #3 of 74
What? Steve Jobs hates a cup of Java now??

I don't even know what this is, but can I assume that another portion of the web will be unavailable to Mac users?

Steve Jobs has a really hard time partnering with people, doesn't he??
post #4 of 74
If Apple convince Oracle to pick up the maintenance of Java for the Mac platform, this may not be a bad thing. Java is maintained by oracle for Windows and Linux (not by Microsoft of the linux community), so if they take on one more, we might actually get more timely releases.

If Java goes away completely, then that could be a very bad thing. Many, many apps rely on Java, more so than many people realize. In business, webex, GoToMeeting, and similar all rely on Java. Many internal applications are developed in Java.
post #5 of 74
Who was it said the best OS/Platform for Java would be OS X?
post #6 of 74
Relax! Apple is just turning Java support over to Oracle. Where it belongs. Just like Oracle (and Sun before them) have always done for Windows and Linux.



More "journalism" from Daniel Eran Dilger...

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply
post #7 of 74
This means no Mathematica, no Maple, no MATLAB and a lot of online games etc for Mac OS X. This also means the most popular development language (around 6 million java developers world wide) will not be available on the Mac.

It's funny because a lot of Java developers liked using OS X (myself included) because it was nicely put together OS with java pre-installed. In a lot of Java developer conferences up to half of the participants were using Mac. All that is about to change...

Oracle is very unlikely to bring JDK for the OS X any time soon. They are not a very agile company (they are having a hard time finalizing the specification for the next version of the language let alone implementation). So, I would not expect java for mac from them in the next 5 years if ever (it's just not an important platform for them, esp. in the server space).

The best hope for Java on the Mac are some half baked ports of BSD JVM but it does not support the GUI very well and it only runs under X11.

Alternatively, Apple could open source their implementation, but I don't know how likely that is (it does not sound like it at all).

I think this is just going to alienate a lot of developers who used Mac up to this point as viable cross platform development platform, and who are about to leave Mac and OS X in droves.

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post #8 of 74
Come on Oracle....
post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Rick_V_ View Post

If Apple convince Oracle to pick up the maintenance of Java for the Mac platform, this may not be a bad thing. Java is maintained by oracle for Windows and Linux (not by Microsoft of the linux community), so if they take on one more, we might actually get more timely releases.

I believe Sun/Oracle has always developed the platform, and think that having Oracle responsible for the releases means we will finally be getting timely updates.
post #10 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

What? Steve Jobs hates a cup of Java now??

I don't even know what this is, but can I assume that another portion of the web will be unavailable to Mac users?

Steve Jobs has a really hard time partnering with people, doesn't he??

Relax he's best buddies with Lar from Oracle (who's suing google's ass btw for patent theft in android).

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On 18 December 2003, Ellison married Melanie Craft, a romance novelist, at his Woodside estate. His friend Steve Jobs (CEO of Apple, Inc) was the official wedding photographer
post #11 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Relax! Apple is just turning Java support over to Oracle. Where it belongs. Just like Oracle (and Sun before them) have always done for Windows and Linux.



More "journalism" from Daniel Eran Dilger...

It's possible Oracle will take this on. I have seen no guarantees (outside of your post).

I rarely agree with the tone of Dilger/Lane/Mcclean writeups, but what part of this particular story is inaccurate?
post #12 of 74
Quote:
It remains to be see how important Oracle views the availability of Java on the Mac; while Apple isn't immediately yanking its support for Java on the Mac entirely, it is committing fewer resources to maintain its own Java releases, likely with the hope or assurance that Oracle will step in and support the Mac as it does other platforms, just as Adobe maintains Flash for the Mac itself, and as Microsoft maintains Silverlight for the Mac on its own.


Let's hope for the best!

I was never a fan of Apple made Java Virtual Machine or Apple made ATI and nVidia graphic drivers because, in both instances, Apple lagged behind official releases for the Windows platform.

Are AMD (ATI) and nVidia next?


post #13 of 74
Good Article. Hopefully this frees up some developers to work on Cocoa.

Cocoa is faster than Java and faster than managed .NET, in fact the whole idea of solving Run Anywhere by using a VM at the app level seems to be an idea that it fizzling out. Products like VMware which solve the problem at the hardware level are getting much wider adoption.

I predict Java will die and C# will lose it's CLR and go back to native code, and Objective-C/Cocoa will go from strength to strength.
post #14 of 74
This was flagged to developers months if not years ago. The platform simply isn't important to Apple's future and isn't worth the engineers to maintain. It's up to Oracle if they want it to survive.
post #15 of 74
I was very happy when Apple initially supported Java for the mac. After about 2006 the features provided by Apple started to lag behind Java... first by about 6 months, then a year, and with this last release it was clear Java was no longer a priority at Apple.

I am an avid Java developer, and I am certain that Oracle or the community will pick it up. Either way, noting the strong community drive with Java SE 6 when Apple languished behind, I expect Java will be in better hands now. I would love to see Java announced as a first class citizen from Oracle, but until that announcement is made, the openJava solution is still more ideal than what we have now, especially now that Apple is changing the prefs to allow multiple VMs.

Don't get me wrong, I love the work Apple does. I also think that Apple needs to embrace third-party technologies a bit more, and Java is a great way to develop that trust! I agree with how terrible flash is, and I hope Apple is right and that Flash as we know it now goes away. The same goes for Apple's management of Java. I think Apple managing Java long term was at best not in the best interest of the community, and I look forward to a brighter future of Java on the mac.
post #16 of 74
That plan being Oracle/Sun taking over the port.

By the way I have no love at all for Java and have never written a line of code in the language. Java apps however are another thing altogether, there are a couple I use a lot. In the end I'd have to think an Oracle supported Java would actually be a better choice.

What is sad is if there is a plan it isn't very well laid out. Thus the anger in the community. Seems like Apple is slipping. Of course there is also the possibility that Oracle made the licensing difficult.

Dave
post #17 of 74
.... "just as Adobe maintains Flash for the Mac itself" This was a joke I assume?
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post #18 of 74
Minecraft uses Java, I will be so sad if I am no longer able to play that excellent game. I just hope that Oracle steps in soon enough.
post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

...In the end I'd have to think an Oracle supported Java would actually be a better choice.

Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What is sad is if there is a plan it isn't very well laid out. Thus the anger in the community. Seems like Apple is slipping. Of course there is also the possibility that Oracle made the licensing difficult.

True on all points. From an outsider's perspective, Apple seems to be saying, "whatever happens, happens. We're fine with that."
post #20 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Good Article. Hopefully this frees up some developers to work on Cocoa.

Cocoa is faster than Java and faster than managed .NET, in fact the whole idea of solving Run Anywhere by using a VM at the app level seems to be an idea that it fizzling out. Products like VMware which solve the problem at the hardware level are getting much wider adoption.

I predict Java will die and C# will lose it's CLR and go back to native code, and Objective-C/Cocoa will go from strength to strength.

not going to happen.
post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Relax! Apple is just turning Java support over to Oracle. Where it belongs. Just like Oracle (and Sun before them) have always done for Windows and Linux.



More "journalism" from Daniel Eran Dilger...

Speaking of journalism, can you cite your sources on Oracle committing to support Java on the Mac?
post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve's son View Post

Uh, if Oracle doesn't release updates I will be very disappointed. I rely on Java for many daily processes, this could result in me purchasing a PC or using a virtualization application to port windows on my Macs.


For instance, Runescape - MMORPG - The No.1 Free Online Multiplayer Game runs through java, has over five million monthly 'paying' subscribers uses Java. Lets say 20% of Runescape's users use Mac what will they all do when Runescape decides to stay up with the latest Java, rather continue support for old editions? Hmm... This really worries me.

Oh, imagine the horror! One million geek losers not being able to play their favorite MMORPG...

Joke aside, Java is much needed on the Mac, mostly for developers. But since Java-Cocoa bridge has been deprecated long ago, a pure Java/Swing port is mostly trivial to OS X.

Actually, it has already been done, from the OpenJDK project, IIRC.

Futhermore, Oracle's Java is not all the rage anymore, IBM took some initiatives of its' own. We might see some nice competition in the JRE/JDK area at last..
post #23 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianstone View Post

I was very happy when Apple initially supported Java for the mac. After about 2006 the features provided by Apple started to lag behind Java... first by about 6 months, then a year, and with this last release it was clear Java was no longer a priority at Apple.

In case you haven't been following the whole scene, Java wasn't even a priority at SUN by that time...

Now, with Oracle, god only knows... Where's a Java 7 already --and competitive with .NET?
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

This means no Mathematica, no Maple, no MATLAB and a lot of online games etc for Mac OS X. This also means the most popular development language (around 6 million java developers world wide) will not be available on the Mac.

No, you confuse it with another statement.

"No Java available for the Mac anymore" translates to what you say.

"No Java bundled with OS X by default by Apple" (what the story tells) does not imply what you say at all.

Java does not come with Windows for example --but Mathematica, Maple, Matlab et al have no problem there. Neither do Java programmers and Eclipse users.

All this means is interested users will have to install the JDK themselves as the do on Windows and Linux. Or that the program vendors with bundle a JRE with their apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

It's funny because a lot of Java developers liked using OS X (myself included) because it was nicely put together OS with java pre-installed. In a lot of Java developer conferences up to half of the participants were using Mac. All that is about to change...

Yes, for the better.

More current Java releases from the Mac, from upstream. Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

Oracle is very unlikely to bring JDK for the OS X any time soon. They are not a very agile company (they are having a hard time finalizing the specification for the next version of the language let alone implementation). So, I would not expect java for mac from them in the next 5 years if ever (it's just not an important platform for them, esp. in the server space).

5 years? That time-span stinks! Probably because you pulled it out of your arse...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

The best hope for Java on the Mac are some half baked ports of BSD JVM but it does not support the GUI very well and it only runs under X11.

The were half-baked because there was no need up to now.

They will get steam soon. Also, IBM has made some announcements lately, surely you have heard...
post #25 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Good Article. Hopefully this frees up some developers to work on Cocoa.

Cocoa is faster than Java and faster than managed .NET, in fact the whole idea of solving Run Anywhere by using a VM at the app level seems to be an idea that it fizzling out. Products like VMware which solve the problem at the hardware level are getting much wider adoption.

I predict Java will die and C# will lose it's CLR and go back to native code, and Objective-C/Cocoa will go from strength to strength.

It's not really a case of desktop applications in Java any more. The Enterprise market especially in Java is one of the largest out there.

Many Java developers such as myself use the Mac OS X because it's UNIX based - much like the OS's we deploy to. Not only that but it's is a standard commercial OS that we do not need to tinker with such as many of the Linux distributions.

I'll agree that the Oracle acquisition of Sun has pushed plans of Java back for the time being but I can guarantee, Java is not going away anytime soon. We have a release of Java 7 out in 2011, and Java 8 in 2012.

There are too many Java EE based applications out there that need Java developers and run many of the websites and online applications on the Internet.

Microsoft is taking a much more open approach to development as well - no longer pushing their own applications onto developers but also encouraging cross platform development - If you don't like using BizTalk Server then use another platform instead, that's what Microsoft is now proclaiming. Even working with Sun on WSI-T to ensure the web services on Windows based servers integrate with Java/UNIX based servers.

If Apple drops support for Java and Oracle does not step up to the plate (and why should they?), there will be a big loss for Apple from mainstream enterprise developers. Apple cannot ignore the enterprise market even now when we are on the cusp of mainstream cloud and distributed computing.
post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Oh, imagine the horror! One million geek losers not being able to play their favorite MMORPG...

Joke aside, Java is much needed on the Mac, mostly for developers. But since Java-Cocoa bridge has been deprecated long ago, a pure Java/Swing port is mostly trivial to OS X.

Actually, it has already been done, from the OpenJDK project, IIRC.

Futhermore, Oracle's Java is not all the rage anymore, IBM took some initiatives of its' own. We might see some nice competition in the JRE/JDK area at last..

Your reading an Apple news and rumors website. That makes you a geek too!
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post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

5 years? That time-span stinks! Probably because you pulled it out of your arse...

I agree, there is no way Oracle would leave Mac OS X out from the the Java 7 release next year. Admittedly this is presuming that OpenJDK is as open as Oracle and IBM are saying.

I'm curious to see where OpenJDK goes, but I know as many other Java Developers using Mac OS X do, if there is no JDK on the Mac then Linux and Windows will be their next platform of choice.
post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Futhermore, Oracle's Java is not all the rage anymore, IBM took some initiatives of its' own. We might see some nice competition in the JRE/JDK area at last..

Well I have the feeling Oracle is allowing IBM to be a proxy for the JDK as IBM has a much larger stake in Java than Oracle. So if Oracle can get someone else to do the work they will.

Remember IBM do not have a programming platform and DB2 is not as big as the Oracle RDBMS. Also Relational Database systems are going the way of the dinosaurs with distributed databases and IMDGs taking their place (Cassandra for example is a pure Java implementation of an IMDG).

RDBMS will always have a place, but pretty much at the very bottom of the chain with very little work to do!
post #29 of 74
What is Oracle's incentive to assume production of the Macintosh JVM ?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Will this be an item that has to be licensed from Oracle ?
post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Good Article. Hopefully this frees up some developers to work on Cocoa.

Cocoa is faster than Java and faster than managed .NET, in fact the whole idea of solving Run Anywhere by using a VM at the app level seems to be an idea that it fizzling out. Products like VMware which solve the problem at the hardware level are getting much wider adoption.

I predict Java will die and C# will lose it's CLR and go back to native code, and Objective-C/Cocoa will go from strength to strength.

You're confusing things. Java is strong on the server, especially among Fortune 500 company, and your reasoning that Java is only good for GUI development is absolutely specious. I work for a Fortune 500 company doing Java server-side development, and I can assure you that Java's going nowhere.

Cocoa/Objective-C is limited by two factors: 1) It only runs on Mac and iOS 2) Objective-C is starting to become long in the tooth as a programming language (Apple's excellent APIs notwithstanding).

As for .NET, it's not going anywhere either, especially not on Windows and especially not in the enterprise.
post #31 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-ray View Post

What is Oracle's incentive to assume production of the Macintosh JVM ?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Will this be an item that has to be licensed from Oracle ?

Oracle uses Java extensively for GUI development, and many of their GUIs run on OS X. Also, with the investment Oracle is making in JavaFX 2.0, I doubt very much they can stand to lose 20% of the desktop market.

What I don't know is whether Apple will open source its Java GUI implementation, sell/license it to Oracle, or do nothing.
post #32 of 74
Headline: reports of sky falling greatly exaggerated

Why don't we all wait until we see where this is really going? I suspect speculation about development going back to Oracle/Sun is about right. There's no way in hell Apple would remove Java from OS X. It just makes no sense on any level.
post #33 of 74
Is this Java Preferences window fabricated? There is no Apple Java 6 for 32-bit platforms. That's why having Mac Mini with Core Duo (not Core 2 Duo) I have to rely on OpenJava with some link tricks on UNIX command line level.

Sorry, but that window looks bogus or Apple started a game of supporting Java 6 32-bit on newer platform which is not quite fair as they could easily do this for those of us who use 32-bit versions of Mac OS X.
post #34 of 74
Although I had been mostly neglecting this web site and its Java applet for the past three years, I'd finally put some serious time into it again recently and released an update earlier this week, just a few days before this deprecation announcement:

http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php

Examples are becoming rarer and rarer, as it's getting pretty amazing what you can do with lightweight web apps based on Javascript, CSS, and HTML, but the above applet is still one of those things that's hard to pull off as effectively by any means other than Java. You can't get away with letting a user drag around a star map or a view of planetary orbits, submit a request to a remote server, let the server calculate a new high-res image, and pipe that image back to a browser fast enough to get the kind of fluid motion I can create with a Java applet, speedily tracking the slightest or the fastest mouse movement.

Getting this applet to work well on the Mac has been a bit of a pain in the ass. The worst thing recently was some weird bug where selecting from a pop-up menu was often completely ignored. It took some ugly Mac-specific hacking to get around the problem. (Oddly enough, if you make a Mac run the older Java 1.5 instead of the newer Java 1.6, the bug, and the need to hack around it, go away.)

The various Java browser plug-ins on the Mac don't seem to work as well as their Windows counterparts either -- the Mac versions flicker an awful lot when you do things like resize the browser window or open and close dialogs.

I gave up a while back on trying to support Apple's Java implementation of the Aqua look-and-feel. It was big and clunky and hungry for screen real estate. Screen layouts that looked fine in Windows and Linux were overcrowded and/or clipped off in Aqua. I'd found tricks to tame these problems, but every new release of Java from Apple changed the rules and broke my previous fixes.

I wanted the Mac version of the applet be the best-looking version with a slick Aqua interface. Now and then during the applet's history the Mac version could claim that. But after all of the problems I had with Aqua in Java, until recently I had to give up and use "Metal", a look-and-feel built into Java that makes Windows Classic look stylish.

With this latest release of the applet, however, I finally gave up on worrying about how long a user might have to wait for everything to download on dial-up. I let the download double in size so I could use JGoodies Plastic look-and-feel (my own tweaked variant). The latest applet looks almost exactly the same on all platforms.

For all of the above bitching and moaning, however, I'm still a big Mac fan, I own only Macs, and I really want OS X to be a great platform to run this applet or any other Java work I do. In the office I do my Java development on Windows, but at home I do all my development on the Mac.

I'm worried now that when Lion comes out what many Mac users will see if they go to my web site is not star charts and orbits and shadows of the moon moving over a map of the world, but only the words "Applet disabled".

http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?nojava=true
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post #35 of 74
This is one of two things:
  1. A really, really stupid move on the part of Apple showing complete disregard for their existing customer base.
  2. A very, very poorly thought out and worded "deprecation" announcement.

Just last week I was pricing out options for 2 Mac Pro's. The idea being to take what's currently being done by about 7 different machines and put it on these two. There are a few little caveats though: one system relies heavily on JSP/Servlet technology to communicate with a processing system based on that technology, and the other uses extensive Java code because of its cross platform ability.

Guess what I'm not going to be buying any time soon!!!

If Oracle is to take over Java development and distribution, fine, but if this is the case they shouldn't have made a "deprecation" announcement until after a corresponding statement from Oracle was released.

If they have no intention of supporting Java, basically they're castrating any serious users of their systems, which makes me wonder, "what comes next?"

Will OS X Server be trashed?
Will X-Windows support be eliminated?
WIll OS X itself be eliminated in favor of iOS?
Will the computer lines be cut to minimalist machines?

As for me, I spent the better part of the day looking at Linux variants...something I haven't done in 7 years.
post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

I believe Sun/Oracle has always developed the platform, and think that having Oracle responsible for the releases means we will finally be getting timely updates.

I agree.

Now if we could get our graphics updates from the respective manufacturers, that would be great too. Or, it could be bad.


I guess we'll see.
post #37 of 74
This is great news. Java for Mac was always going to be far behind the latest release of Java for Windows. Hopefully now Oracle can start to keep all Java versions in sync.
post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

No, you confuse it with another statement.

"No Java available for the Mac anymore" translates to what you say.

"No Java bundled with OS X by default by Apple" (what the story tells) does not imply what you say at all.

Java does not come with Windows for example --but Mathematica, Maple, Matlab et al have no problem there. Neither do Java programmers and Eclipse users.

All this means is interested users will have to install the JDK themselves as the do on Windows and Linux. Or that the program vendors with bundle a JRE with their apps.



Yes, for the better.

More current Java releases from the Mac, from upstream. Yes!



5 years? That time-span stinks! Probably because you pulled it out of your arse...



The were half-baked because there was no need up to now.

They will get steam soon. Also, IBM has made some announcements lately, surely you have heard...

Except no one makes JDK/JRE for OS X other than Apple. There are ports of BSD java to OS X but they are incomplete and use X11 for GUI.

Someone starting from scratch will take a long long time to come up with JDK implementation for OS X (and probably also run into license issues with Oracle, since it's almost impossible to implement it without stepping on some patent).

IBM announcement has nothing to do with OS X. It basically just says they are joining the Open JDK project (and leaving Apache harmony).

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Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post

Is this Java Preferences window fabricated? There is no Apple Java 6 for 32-bit platforms. That's why having Mac Mini with Core Duo (not Core 2 Duo) I have to rely on OpenJava with some link tricks on UNIX command line level.

Sorry, but that window looks bogus or Apple started a game of supporting Java 6 32-bit on newer platform which is not quite fair as they could easily do this for those of us who use 32-bit versions of Mac OS X.

My Core Duo MacBook (ordered the day the MacBook was introduced) didn't have Java 6 under Leopard, but it does under Snow Leopard.
post #40 of 74
Apple's plans here are simple, I'd say.

You either develop with apple technologies, like Cocoa, or you don't have to develop for the Mac. There is a major overhead using 50 different technologies to develop an OS. These technologies are for convenience, to minimize the amount of code required to be written, and to lessen the understanding required by the developer of the actual system they are developing for.

On iOS, Apple was sure to make one thing clear: You develop with UIKit, and its API's. That's it. They don't want to be supporting other people and bogging ourselves down. UIKit is more than capable as a UI development framework, and even beats Cocoa (an industry leader).

Moving onto Mac OS X, Apple has decided that if it wants to support devices like a 1.4Ghz MacBook Air, then it needs to pare down its OS to avoid running multiple runtimes for nothing. There's no reason to have bloatware for the sake of developer convenience when you have 20% of the US computer market. Developers need to get with the program and deal with it: You're either with Cocoa, or you aren't. And to be honest, there's not that much difference. Except overhead on devices that realistically don't need it.

This is about Apple stripping away bloat from its OS, and streamlining developers to Cocoa. A good idea indeed.
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