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HP releasing $799 Slate 500 to take on iPad in tablet market - Page 7

post #241 of 434
10/22/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

No, GOOD competent and innovative competition is good for consumers ... and this new HP tablet is not it. You have over 10 years of failed MS tablets, HOW is this one ANY different? HOW?

Exactly, why didn't they put web os on a tablet?

They pulled the scheduled slate they had from the market, waited for 6 months more and came up with the vey same atom and windows 7 crap 6 months after.

Talk about a great strategy.
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post #242 of 434
10/22/10 at 12:51pm
Let me figure this out:

Advantages of HP Slate:
1080p out (I'm going to get flamed, but this is not relevant to most people)
Runs Windows 7 (could also be considered a disadvantage)
Uses a stylus (ditto)
Faster processor (possibly - and the acid test will be responsiveness and launch times)

Disadvantages:
$100 more expensive (as 64G iPad Wifi)
Smaller screen (but same weight as ipad)
Half the battery life (but same weight as ipad)
Runs Windows 7
Uses a stylus
No instant-on

I know what tablet I prefer.
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MacKeeper - confidence and security for your Mac!
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post #243 of 434
10/22/10 at 1:17pm
What's the point of a 16:9 display on a device that is advertised as a business oriented product? If the object is to work on documents, presentations, spreadsheets, etc., wouldn't a 4:3 form factor be much more convenient given that the screen area is so small to begin with?

iPad screen area: 45.2 inches squared
HP Slate screen area: 33.4 inches squared

So the iPad has significantly more usable screen area than what a simple comparison of the diagonal dimensions would indicate. Basically, the HP Slate's usable screen area is 2/3 of iPad!

It looks to me like HP was initially planning to position the Slate as a low-cost personal entertainment device (as the specs and pricing in the slide posted earlier thread would indicate) but got out-priced of this market by the iPad and now they are trying to position it as a "Business" gadget...
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post #244 of 434
10/22/10 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKeeperFunReg View Post

Let me figure this out:

Advantages of HP Slate:
1080p out (I'm going to get flamed, but this is not relevant to most people)
Runs Windows 7 (could also be considered a disadvantage)
Uses a stylus (ditto)
Faster processor (possibly - and the acid test will be responsiveness and launch times)

Disadvantages:
$100 more expensive (as 64G iPad Wifi)
Smaller screen (but same weight as ipad)
Half the battery life (but same weight as ipad)
Runs Windows 7
Uses a stylus
No instant-on

I know what tablet I prefer.

pulled out from above -- Faster processor (possibly - and the acid test will be responsiveness and launch times)

Atom processors are slow compared to modern processors, even though the Ghz ratings aren't that different. And Apples A4 isn't just a CPU, it is a package that also has the RAM on board, that means RAM access is about 500X faster than an off package RAM access that the Atom would use. That difference right there is why the Atom will fell slower on just about everything.

It's not about the specs, its about the whole system integration performance vastly outperforming the specs. These other manufacturers don't get that at all.
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Hiro's Hall of Shame ignore list: Tulkas -- because we know he wasn't born dumb.
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post #245 of 434
10/22/10 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

And Apples A4 isn't just a CPU, it is a package that also has the RAM on board, that means RAM access is about 500X faster than an off package RAM access that the Atom would use.

Would you elaborate on how you came up with the "500X faster" number in your post?
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post #246 of 434
10/22/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Windows 7. Unless you are one of those extreme Apple fanboys that worships Steve Jobs every night before you go to bed and believe Windows and Linux cause cancer.

You are misinterpreting the remark. Windows 7 is a desktop OS. Microsoft has tried for about a decade to sell tablets with a desktop OS and a tablet retrofit. To say that has been a failure might be exaggerating but after the iPhone, iPad example showed how well an OS rebuilt almost from scratch could do it seems surprising to see yet another repeat of the old strategy.

You don't have to be a fanboy to see the clear difference between Apple's strategy and what is being attempted with this tablet from HP. There are many specific differences in what helps make a good OS for the tablet and cellphone form factors and someone may find an approach better than Apple's. But strapping on a "touch" interface onto a keyboard/mouse interface of a desktop OS just to get to market faster seems cynical.
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post #247 of 434
10/22/10 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Everyone has being doing an admirable job of ignoring this fool over the last few days. I just don't understand why anyone would spend their time day after day trolling any forum. It's just weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

I can not understand people that troll Apple forums for the fun of it. Or maybe they are that upset about Apple's success.

Let's not pretend these people have normal motives as if they were freely contributing to a forum out of some twisted psychology. See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Lol, probably. Bummer if these guys are not getting paid for all their hard idiotic work, maybe we could start a charity thread for these guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Wow, lot of trolling going on. Do they pay by the post like banner ad clicks?

There are three or four in this thread working together by feeding each other lines. So obvious. They seem to be Eastern time zone hires so they can be first to post and warp the thread. Shameful whoring.
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post #248 of 434
10/22/10 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Have you ever read this forum on an iPhone? I need to constantly resize in order to use, for example, the page number buttons.

Yes, using a small touch-screen can cause the need to resize. Just like in iOS.

Dude, you are are talking about a web page that you visit, versus the built-in UI of iOS.
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post #249 of 434
10/22/10 at 3:22pm
.

Don't know if it was discussed here...

... Someone on another forum brought up the fact that the HP Slate, Running Windows 7 and iTunes...

... could be used as the "pc" to initially set up an iPad...


Slate to iPad: Who's your Daddy?


... Steve-- How embarrassing! ::


I suspect we'll see a plastic thumb drive for the iPad, Real Soon, Now!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #250 of 434
10/22/10 at 3:36pm
If they sell 10 of these I'll be surprised
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post #251 of 434
10/22/10 at 4:07pm
.

I think HP released this tablet because:

1) It made a commitment to MS

2) It needs to maintain a good relationship with MS for the HP line of computers that use Windows

I believe that HP will also release a WebOS Tablet that is amed at the same audience as the iPad

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #252 of 434
10/22/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

I think HP released this tablet because:

1) It made a commitment to MS

2) It needs to maintain a good relationship with MS for the HP line of computers that use Windows

I believe that HP will also release a WebOS Tablet that is amed at the same audience as the iPad

.

I think that's exactly right. They likely had this mostly in the can before the iPad ever hit, so they know they're releasing it into a completely changed market. So they'll trot it out, be polite about it, sell what they can, and never speak of it again.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #253 of 434
10/22/10 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think that's exactly right. They likely had this mostly in the can before the iPad ever hit, so they know they're releasing it into a completely changed market. So they'll trot it out, be polite about it, sell what they can, and never speak of it again.

All right, I'll bite...

... what does your sig mean?

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #254 of 434
10/22/10 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

Let's all continue to bash a product we've never used or even have the full specs on.

HP knows how to sell the Slate. Consumers won't buy it -- they're basically admitting. Corporation types who make the decisions never use the stuff they force their employees to use. HP salesman will stroke the oversized egos of corporates, which is pretty much the critical concern with these folks, and they can sell thousands and earn a big commission.

Of course, the corporate types might already own an iPad -- remember, Apple's pricing means their customers are already reasonably well off financially and can afford the more dear products -- they may penny-pinch for the employees, but never for themselves. In case you've not noticed, in this deep recession, Apple product sales are doing quite well -- Apple's customers are not the ones being foreclosed on, and laid off, in general. (At least not yet!)

HP's marketing may fail just because the iPad has established the market and is of quite high quality, especially given it's version 1.0.
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post #255 of 434
10/22/10 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

On the iPhone they have Japanese and Chinese, Arabic and many others, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have them on the iPad.

Wrong. It has Japanese input via keyboard, but not handwriting recognition. The handwriting input is only for Chinese characters that the two languages often share, but not all characters are written the same, so not all characters written in Japanese are recognized. And writing with a finger still sucks hard.
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post #256 of 434
10/22/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

The problem with this is that Windows isn't designed for Touch, so you're going to need that stylus all the time, either that or be constantly correcting yourself as you keep touching the wrong controls.

Rubbish. I've used other Windows tablets and haven't had problems. Still, they aren't as touch friendly as an iPad. But again, I'd sacrifice a bit of finger friendliness for the added advantage of a stylus in certain cases.
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post #257 of 434
10/22/10 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

All right, I'll bite...

... what does your sig mean?

.

Just a phrase that pleased me from a recent forum gibberish spam. And really, who wouldn't want a carnival apportion on baby gadgets? Potent to obtain or no, I don't think you can go wrong there.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #258 of 434
10/22/10 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cummje View Post

Rubbish. I've used other Windows tablets and haven't had problems. Still, they aren't as touch friendly as an iPad. But again, I'd sacrifice a bit of finger friendliness for the added advantage of a stylus in certain cases.

You are right!

The problem is this: a tablet with a pc os is a niche product.

When the iPad was announced in Jan, the pundits forecast total tablet sales for 2010 as:

-- Total tablet sales: 11 .5 units
-- Total iPad sales .5 million units

Wrong!

While what you say is correct, the world has moved on... as nicely as I can put this... It does't matter how good/bad a Windows tablet is... nobody cares!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #259 of 434
10/22/10 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just a phrase that pleased me from a recent forum gibberish spam. And really, who wouldn't want a carnival apportion on baby gadgets? Potent to obtain or no, I don't think you can go wrong there.

Actually, that makes as much sense as what anyone has posted on this thread -- except for me and thee...

... and I'm not sure about thee!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #260 of 434
10/22/10 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Rubish. I have both o player and vlc and they both work great. I don't know if these guys have messed up settings or they are trying to play some 5gb mkv or what? If you think the atom, lol, will play these better be my guest. It's yor money.

Without question the Atom DOES play HD video better than an iPad though. My iPad simply cannot play many video files that my HP Mini has no problems with. Frankly, I'm getting tired of the "Your iPad is probably too slow to play this file" error messages. Yes, MKVs are processor intensive, but if the HP Mini can handle it, why can't the iPad using the same app?
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post #261 of 434
10/22/10 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKeeperFunReg View Post

Let me figure this out:

Advantages of HP Slate:
1080p out (I'm going to get flamed, but this is not relevant to most people)
Runs Windows 7 (could also be considered a disadvantage)
Uses a stylus (ditto)
Faster processor (possibly - and the acid test will be responsiveness and launch times)

Disadvantages:
$100 more expensive (as 64G iPad Wifi)
Smaller screen (but same weight as ipad)
Half the battery life (but same weight as ipad)
Runs Windows 7
Uses a stylus
No instant-on

I know what tablet I prefer.

Yeah, well, it's not like a Windows tablet has never been tried before, pushed on business users, and failed. Many times. Microsoft and their hardware partners have been doing this since the early 1990s. Anyone remember these?
Compaq Tablet PC
Samsung Q1
You can run Microsoft Outlook and Office on any of these machines. They didn't sell well. All it made people do is wish they had a real laptop.

Now HP and Microsoft are back to doing more of the same thing. Somebody tell me: what's different this time?

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #262 of 434
10/22/10 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Exactly, why didn't they put web os on a tablet?

They pulled the scheduled slate they had from the market, waited for 6 months more and came up with the vey same atom and windows 7 crap 6 months after.

Talk about a great strategy.

Microsoft's and HP's strategy seems to be: The halo effect. They're hoping the luster from the iPad will rub off on their tried-and-not-so-true strategy.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #263 of 434
10/22/10 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

this is aimed at businesses yeah, not consumers..

.. So these would be the businesses who have spent most of 2010 testing and rolling out ipad and preparing custom software. The same businesses who also push virtualized sessions of windows whatever to their iPads with no tablet resource limits.

Ah yes, of course.. It should be an easy sell

"businesses who have spent most of 2010 testing and rolling out ipad and preparing custom software"

Love the iPad, but in my consulting job being in many different corporations this year, I have not seen this once. Sure a few people at the corporations that are not super locked down have them, but no rollouts of any kind have I seen.
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post #264 of 434
10/23/10 at 1:53am
You guys have got it wrong about the stylus. This is one of the few really great things about the HP Slate. Being able to use a high-resolution pressure sensitive stylus on a device with a capacitive touchscreen is remarkable. You cannot do detailed illustration on an iPad because you cannot use a high resolution stylus. sure, you can do illustration, just not accurately enough for programs like Photoshop and accurate variable-width vector drawing. You can use a capacitive stylus like the Pogo, but its resolution is way too low for accurate illustration or handwriting.

I wish you could use a Wacom stylus on the iPad. That would be an incredible advance for artists and for handwriting recognition.
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post #265 of 434
10/23/10 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

The new 11" MacBook Air is only rated at 5 hours of battery life. Will you denigrate it also?

In case you still don't know the MacBook Air's battery life is tested against a more stringent test that depicts a more accurate real life usage battery life.
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post #266 of 434
10/23/10 at 2:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

Windows 7 32bit 14gb
Windows 7 64bit 20gb

OS X 10.6.4 9gb

OS X 10.6.4 9gb 64-Bit
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post #267 of 434
10/23/10 at 2:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

EPIC FAIL on HP's behalf... I'm pretty sure it will have a noisy fan inside like most netbooks cooling the atom cpu.

No it has that ice tray
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post #268 of 434
10/23/10 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I was under the impression that the iPad already has Japanese handwriting input. I know they have Chinese.

I can write Chinese and yes iPad doesn't present a problem for me writing chinese characters at all.
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post #269 of 434
10/23/10 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Using "business" in your marketing copy causes a Pavlovian response among the IT departments of the world. Especially when you are Microsoft. It's the one area where MS has any profitability, it's admittedly a large market, and that's why MS will never be able to penetrate the consumer market. Because to divert resources to consumer products would risk the all-important Windows + Office enterprise monopoly.

Apple tried to break into the enterprise market in the '90s, especially when John Scully tried to beat IBM at the personal computing game. Didn't work. Now the tables have turned. Apple has broken the consumer market wide open, and iPhone and iPad are breaking into the enterprise market thanks to the robustness and popularity of iOS.

So, naturally, MS is trying to find a toehold in the consumer market. But XBox has lost billions due to horrible hardware design (just Google "General Hardware Failure" ). Zune somehow limps along despite negligible sales. KIN was mercifully killed off after just a few weeks of feature- and sales-challenged existence.

And now Ballmer is making two more enormously costly mistakes: rushing out Windows Phone 7 as a half-baked knee-jerk reaction to the death of Windows Mobile 6, and cramming Windows 7 into a tablet. As if 9 years of mediocrity in tablet computing aren't enough already. Same crap, different shape.

Just exactly how many billions (more) is Microsoft going to shovel into the dumpster fire of their consumer product businesses? It was amusing seeing MS do that a few years ago with Zune. But it's not funny any more. Not even with a clown like Ballmer running the show, and nothing's worse than a clown who isn't funny.

Steve Ballmer is a genius only he can make millions out of billions
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post #270 of 434
10/23/10 at 3:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Windows 7. Unless you are one of those extreme Apple fanboys that worships Steve Jobs every night before you go to bed and believe Windows and Linux cause cancer.

Linux doesn't cause cancer. Windows does, this is opposite of Ballmer's belief that Linux is a Cancer
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post #271 of 434
10/23/10 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I suspect it won't work for many people. I predict Zune type sales. In fact probably the same people.

I am trying to imagine dealing with all those pop ups from anti-virus, the Windows OS and updates etc. while three copies if IE open because you were shaking with anger when you tapped the stylus ...

I can see a slew of 3rd party add ons ... first a piece of string with duct tape either end for the stylus.

Can you install itunes on this so that it is usable with all the iDevices and will replace your PC with this
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post #272 of 434
10/23/10 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fila97 View Post

I can write Chinese and yes iPad doesn't present a problem for me writing chinese characters at all.

Think someone should send a PM to the ignorant user who said the inability of the iPad to do Japanese handwriting input was the only reason he didn't buy one?
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post #273 of 434
10/23/10 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

If it is running Windows why not? All done with a stylus.... the multi-gesture functions like pinching to zoom etc. might be a bit difficult though!

Pinch'n'Zoom with 2 stylus maybe 'n' number os stylus for all the gestures understood by iPad, like using chopsticks on tablet.
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post #274 of 434
10/23/10 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Think someone should send a PM to the ignorant user who said the inability of the iPad to do Japanese handwriting input was the only reason he didn't buy one?

Nah! He'd just come up with another only reason!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #275 of 434
10/23/10 at 4:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Why would you install "a full version of windows"? It includes a lot of drivers and other stuff that would be inapplicable.

My guess is that like every other OEM, they will install a version of Windows that is certain to work perfectly with the hardware, but which excludes unnecessary pieces. Generally, you can set up Windows to keep the unnecessary, but potentially useful pieces compressed and uninstalled. The stuff that is unnecessary takes up little or no space.

WRT Office, it too is modular, and you can install only what you use. Most people use Outlook and Word. A few mid-level types use powerpoint.

Then how useful is generic port like USB where you cannot use the drivers of the desktop OS, which means lot your devices suddenly become useless. The idea of WHQL is to make sure all devices work well with windows.
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post #276 of 434
10/23/10 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispeakinsong View Post

Sure, the screen will be nicer for when you do want to want watch videos and whatnot, but is it worth it at twice the price of a netbook?

The iPad sells for as much as 3 times the price of a netbook. Is it worth three times the cost of a netbook?

When other tablets have a real OS?

Time will tell. I think that there are different consumers with different needs and desires. I don't think that one size fits all. Ever. Some people think different, and don't like crippled products.
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post #277 of 434
10/23/10 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrdSllS View Post

I am so happy, I am getting one asap,

I will partition the disk right away just in case, defragment it once to have a fresh start,
update windows with the most recent patches, install few drivers. And oh! I am a power user,
I will also fine tune my antivirus and firewall settings and change my background.

Connecting to the web will be such a breeze using window's connection manager assistant.
Then I will install my favorite desktop applications. Lets not forget a usb keyboard and mouse
to use them...

Then, here it is ! fully bloated [edit: I meant blown] ms words on windows on my tablet !
Suck that iPad.

[edited for typo]

hahaha! nice.
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #278 of 434
10/23/10 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

On tablets, the regular aspect ratio is 4:3 because the iPad has a near 100% of the tablet market. Of course, its impossible for an aspect ratio to be obsolete, which is oddly how many described it back when it was demoed at the start of the year.

But if one is less myopic, and considers aspects of the real world other than one product form one company, the answer is different.

If one looks at the vast majority of screens produced in the last 5 years, one does NOT see any aspect ratio except one: 16:9.

4:3 is used infrequently on some bizarre niche products. It is also used on one popular product.

Go to Amazon. They sell 1,278 TV sets with 16:9 screens, and 131 with the old aspect ratio.

They sell 18,923 different computer monitors. They don't list 4:3 as a choice, so I assume that none of them have anything but the standard 16:9 aspect ratio.

It would be truly bizarre to buy a 4:3 computer monitor. I doubt that old-fashioned stuff is even still in production (except for some bizarre, niche products).
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post #279 of 434
10/23/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

They sell 18,923 different computer monitors. They don't list 4:3 as a choice, so I assume that none of them have anything but the standard 16:9 aspect ratio.

Many would still be 16:10. The last good resolution.
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post #280 of 434
10/23/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And yes, I know that Windows 7 has New Special Touch Enhancements, but we all know they're modest and not really all that much of an improvement over the previous iterations-- .

How do "we all" know that?

I have not seen a single comment by anybody who has ever used it.

We All?
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