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Apple: Not preinstalling Flash on Macs ensures users have latest version - Page 4

post #121 of 136
Ever so clever move by Apple.

1. Removes the nightmare security risk that is that horrible POS, Flash.

2. Takes the number of Macs with Flash preinstalled from all to zero. Awesome. I dreamed this would happen eventually, but definitely did not expect it to be real.

3. Makes my life easier. Rather than having to use clicktoflash, I can just not install anything.

4. Mac App Store will be the end of my need of Flash. Lots of content will be distributed this way, hopefully replacing much of the Flash content out there, and the Mac will be become more App centric than it is now. I see this as a very good thing, because if the App store can do for Macs what it did for iPhones and iPads, then we have something great use time on the horizon for our Macs.
post #122 of 136
So withholding Flash ensures that people have it?

Nice doublespeak. Only in Appleland.

post #123 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

So withholding Flash ensures that people have it?
Nice doublespeak. Only in Appleland.

Yes!

And also in Windowsland and Linuxland.

Neither ships with Flash.


C.
post #124 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

So withholding Flash ensures that people have it?

Nice doublespeak. Only in Appleland.


Yes!

And also in Windowsland and Linuxland.

Neither ships with Flash.

Microsoft doesn't bundle Flash because they have what they hope will be a direct competitor to it, and most Linux distros don't include it because of FOSS licensing restrictions.

But only Apple excludes it for the ostensible benefit of making sure you have it.

THAT's cojones.
post #125 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Microsoft doesn't bundle Flash because they have what they hope will be a direct competitor to it and most Linux distros don't include it because of FOSS licensing restrictions.
But only Apple excludes it for the ostensible benefit of making sure you have it.
THAT's cojones.

That's funny!

Flash is Adobe's business model. It's not the responsibility of any other organisation other than Adobe to distribute it for them. It is, after all, a proprietary plug-in.

Apple users should not be deprived of enjoying the full Adobe installation experience, or prevented from the opportunity to click "accept" on the terms and conditions of use.

http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/...00108_1657.pdf

C.
post #126 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

In Steve Jobs' "Back to the Mac" Keynote, Pixelmator made it in the Lion screenshot of apps while Photoshop was MIA.

http://www.pixelmator.com/weblog/

We were discussing this at work. I totally uninstalled photoshop and decided that pixel mator was all that was needed.
post #127 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singapura View Post

I love Apple products but their business tactics rival that of North Korean politics. Why not just come out and say that you want Adobe to go away? It's not even a rational fear because Adobe is not a direct competitor. Instead is one of Steve's petty peeves that has nothing to do with sound judgement. Apple should realize that if the great Steverino dies, it's over. There 's no Kim Yong Un for them ready to take the reigns. Any dictatorship that fosters a cult of personality like the Church of Jobs is doomed to fail. I really hope that doesn't happen because as long as I can jailbreak I will prefer any Apple product over the competition (except Apple TV )

Sometimes it's better not to say anything at all. Apple doesn't hate Adobe. They do not like flash. Apples criticisms of Adobe have been Flash related. It doesn't make sense to pre-install a Flash security risk onto an Apple product. Judging by the recent reports from Symantec and other companies Flash is a security risk. Additionally, Adobe should be responsible for the distribution of their own products not Apple. Apple didn't say that Flash wouldn't run if it was installed. Apple simply said they wouldn't pre-install Flash themselves. This gives the user a choice to decide if they want crap ware on their Mac or not. It also allows the user to decide if they agree to Adobe's terms or not. Adobe can probably just put flash on the Mac Store so people can find it easily.....
post #128 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Microsoft doesn't bundle Flash because they have what they hope will be a direct competitor to it, and most Linux distros don't include it because of FOSS licensing restrictions.

But only Apple excludes it for the ostensible benefit of making sure you have it.

THAT's cojones.

Apple is making sure that you agree to Adobe's terms and conditions and it ensures you have the latest version if you do decide to install Flash.
post #129 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Apple is making sure that you agree to Adobe's terms and conditions and it ensures you have the latest version if you do decide to install Flash.

No you don't understand.
Microsoft does not include Flash in Windows, and that is Okay.
Linux does not include Flash, and that is Okay.
But when Apple does not include Flash - it is suddenly:
"OMG - They are beeing like NORHT KOREA!!!!"

All this drama queenery about a stupid plug in!

C.
post #130 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

No you don't understand.
Microsoft does not include Flash in Windows, and that is Okay.
Linux does not include Flash, and that is Okay.
But when Apple does not include Flash - it is suddenly:
"OMG - They are beeing like NORHT KOREA!!!!"

All this drama queenery about a stupid plug in!

C.

I could swear my Windows 7 64bit Ultimate had Flash preloaded. Not sure. It's a Dell OEM licensed installer disc though. Hmm.

But yeah OMG OMG STEVE IS GOING TO KILL FLASH ON THE MAC OMG OMG
post #131 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I could swear my Windows 7 64bit Ultimate had Flash preloaded. Not sure. It's a Dell OEM licensed installer disc though. Hmm.

But yeah OMG OMG STEVE IS GOING TO KILL FLASH ON THE MAC OMG OMG

I can never remember whether a computer or OS came with flash or not. It doesn't take long to install it, so it's easy to forget.
post #132 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I can never remember whether a computer or OS came with flash or not. It doesn't take long to install it, so it's easy to forget.

So I fired up my VMWare XP2 and it told me a Flash update was available. Currently running Flash 9.0.28.0. I think that came with the XP2 install, can't remember updating it to Flash 9, it's a fairly recent VMWare installation of XP2, my XP2 image though is from 2006-ish. Who knows.

I fired up my VMWare Windows7, IT DOES NOT COME WITH FLASH! I never knew that. Who would've imagined. Windows7 not coming with Flash. That, to me, is strange.

But yeah, it is easy to install Flash, especially on Windows.
post #133 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

So I fired up my VMWare XP2 and it told me a Flash update was available. Currently running Flash 9.0.28.0. I think that came with the XP2 install, can't remember updating it to Flash 9, it's a fairly recent VMWare installation of XP2, my XP2 image though is from 2006-ish. Who knows.

How did you get notified of the update? Was it because a site you used required Flash 9?
post #134 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How did you get notified of the update? Was it because a site you used required Flash 9?

Stangely, after I started Windows XP2 when it got to the desktop screen it popped up. I hadn't opened a browser or anything. As mentioned, I already had Flash 9. This was a pop-up to install Flash 10.1 - it had appeared previously and I think I clicked Remind Me Later. Though I can't remember what I did to get the pop-up in the first place.

Gotta love Windows and Flash... It is no surprise when people switch to Mac they are so ultra-paranoid and want to micromanage everything- where files are, what they are doing, if files are duplicated or not, how much space they're taking, how to defrag, which applications are running or not, how to delete stuff for sure, how to hide activity history, antivirus, antimalware, etc. etc.
post #135 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Apple is making sure that you agree to Adobe's terms and conditions and it ensures you have the latest version if you do decide to install Flash.

Careful, them are "fanboy" words.
post #136 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Stangely, after I started Windows XP2 when it got to the desktop screen it popped up. I hadn't opened a browser or anything. As mentioned, I already had Flash 9. This was a pop-up to install Flash 10.1 - it had appeared previously and I think I clicked Remind Me Later. Though I can't remember what I did to get the pop-up in the first place.

Gotta love Windows and Flash... It is no surprise when people switch to Mac they are so ultra-paranoid and want to micromanage everything- where files are, what they are doing, if files are duplicated or not, how much space they're taking, how to defrag, which applications are running or not, how to delete stuff for sure, how to hide activity history, antivirus, antimalware, etc. etc.

You're right, I'll take back the claim of "no update notifier", at least in the case of Windows. On my workshop computer, I just got a notice of an update and an option to install, and there wasn't a browser opening or updating.
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