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Wikileaks

post #1 of 110
Thread Starter 
Is it good? Is it bad?

Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Reportedly at Least 100,000

The Iraq Archive: The Strands of a War

Greatest Data Leak in US Military History

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If a nation expects to be ignorant — and free — in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Colonel Charles Yancey, January 6, 1816

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #2 of 110
Good.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #3 of 110
Very good.

This war was a huge mistake for the U.S. and it just gets worse all the time.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #4 of 110
SPEECH & NATIONAL SECURITY

Quote:
The Supreme Court has recognized the government's interest in keeping some information secret, such as wartime troop deployments. But the Court has never actually upheld an injunction against speech on national security grounds. Two lessons can be learned from this historical fact. First, the amount of speech that can be curtailed in the interest of national security is very limited. And second, the government has historically overused the concept of "national security" to shield itself from criticism, and to discourage public discussion of controversial policies or decisions.

In 1971, the publication of the "Pentagon Papers" by the New York Times brought the conflicting claims of free speech and national security to a head. The Pentagon Papers, a voluminous secret history and analysis of the country's involvement in Vietnam, was leaked to the press. When the Times ignored the government's demand that it cease publication, the stage was set for a Supreme Court decision. In the landmark U.S. v. New York Times case, the Court ruled that the government could not, through "prior restraint," block publication of any material unless it could prove that it would "surely" result in "direct, immediate, and irreparable" harm to the nation. This the government failed to prove, and the public was given access to vital information about an issue of enormous importance.

The public's First Amendment "right to know" is essential to its ability to fully participate in democratic decision-making. As the Pentagon Papers case demonstrates, the government's claims of "national security" must always be closely scrutinized to make sure they are valid.

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/free...position-paper

Pentagon Papers:

Quote:
Question:
Did the Nixon administration's efforts to prevent the publication of what it termed "classified information" violate the First Amendment?

Conclusion:
Yes. In its per curiam opinion the Court held that the government did not overcome the "heavy presumption against" prior restraint of the press in this case. Justices Black and Douglas argued that the vague word "security" should not be used "to abrogate the fundamental law embodied in the First Amendment." Justice Brennan reasoned that since publication would not cause an inevitable, direct, and immediate event imperiling the safety of American forces, prior restraint was unjustified.

Case:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...l=403&page=713
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #5 of 110
Thread Starter 

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #6 of 110
Thread Starter 

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #7 of 110
Thread Starter 

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #8 of 110
Sweden to issue int'l warrant for Assange

Quote:
STOCKHOLM Swedish prosecutors say they will seek an international arrest warrant for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in a rape investigation.

The announcement came after a Stockholm court approved their request to detain Assange for questioning in the case, which stems from his encounters with two Swedish women in August.

Assange is suspected of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. He has denied the allegations.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #9 of 110
Sweden seeks Interpol arrest warrant for WikiLeaks founder

Quote:
Paris, Nov 20 (DPA) The international crime fighting organisation Interpol said Saturday it has received an arrest warrant application from Sweden seeking the arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

The Lyon, France-based Interpol said in the so-called Red Notice application, Sweden had not officially authorized the disclosure of its contents and so under Interpol rules media queries about it would not be answered.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #10 of 110
U.S. documents obtained by WikiLeaks posted despite site problem
Quote:
(CNN) -- The whistleblower website WikiLeaks said Sunday that it was under cyber attack, preventing it from posting tens of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables, it said via Twitter Sunday.
Despite the glitch, five international news outlets which had obtained the documents ahead of time published details of the leaked documents on their websites.
The announcement of the apparent attack came shortly after the United States warned WikiLeaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange that publishing the papers would be illegal and would endanger peoples' lives.....
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #11 of 110
This latest Wikileak-thing is even more revealing than the previous instances. This is priceless, we get to read real insider-stuff!

Four among many interesting things:
1. Saudi Arabia's king urged the US to destroy Iran's nuclear plants!

2. Yemen's government assured the US to say the bombing of the Al-qaeeda-bases in Yemen were done by Yemen's forces! That means obviously the US is not only bombing in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia but also in Yemen!

3. Hillary Clinton calling its high officials to spy in the UN!

4. The US thinks Afghanistan's president Karsai to be very weak and easily persuaded by conspiracy theories.
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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post #12 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Four among many interesting things:
1. Saudi Arabia's king urged the US to destroy Iran's nuclear plants!

What surprise? Saudi are a bunch of scumbags and the US has to jump when they say jump. Saudi probably told Israel the same thing...they are chummy enough.

It's not about freedom or safety though - don't fall into that trap. It's about spreading the Saudi Wahabi doctrine and convincing infidels and Muslims alike think that the Saudi version is the REAL Islam.

Iran are a threat to that mission.

Quote:
2. Yemen's government assured the US to say the bombing of the Al-qaeeda-bases in Yemen were done by Yemen's forces! That means obviously the US is not only bombing in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia but also in Yemen!

Why does it mean that? I don't get it

Yemeni forces bombing in Yemen means US bombing in Yemen?

Quote:
3. Hillary Clinton calling its high officials to spy in the UN!

What surprise here? This is routine....

Quote:
4. The US thinks Afghanistan's president Karsai to be very weak and easily persuaded by conspiracy theories.

Karzai is a puppet. A corrupt one...that's why they put him there. If he was not weak he would not kow-tow to the US would he?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #13 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Good.

Wrong completely they are shit disturbers who want to cause trouble for nothing. LEAVE IT ALONE ALREADY! I hate Julian A. I hope he goes to jail and rots there.
post #14 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post



Why does it mean that? I don't get it

Yemeni forces bombing in Yemen means US bombing in Yemen?

No, the US-forces bombed the Alqaeeda-bases in Yemen, but because Yemen's government can't officially allow the US to do so, it decided to publically state that the bombing was done by the yemeni-forces.

There are other interesting things concerning Turkey: Apparantely according to these leaks the US is supporting the terror-organization PKK, while Turkey was helping Al-Qaeeda in Iraq.
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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post #15 of 110
Remember, when you stand up to the US government you are a terrorist. Remember also that when you expose the actions of the US government it is you who are risking lives not those who committed the actions that are going to piss a lot of people off when they are exposed.

You know the funny sense I get about this WikiLeaks stuff is that it is mostly Americans that all of this will be news to. I suspect people in the countries where we've been doing things know this stuff has been going on for years. Over here we're just content to believe the media whitewashed government propaganda.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #16 of 110
It seems that at least some US diplomats are, well...not very diplomatic.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #17 of 110
Thread Starter 
Clinton calls leaked documents attack on world

Quote:
WASHINGTON – Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the leak of hundreds of thousands of secret diplomatic documents is an attack not only on the United States but also the international community
.
In her first public comments since the weekend release of the classified State Department cables, Clinton said Monday that online whistleblower Wikileaks acted illegally in posting the material. She said the Obama administration was "aggressively pursuing" those responsible for the leak.

She said the leaks erode trust between nations. But Clinton also said she was "confident" that U.S. partnerships would withstand the challenges posed by the latest revelations.

We can't let governments be held accountable for their actions, no sir.

Time to circle the wagons and protect big government from the mindless masses.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #18 of 110
Quote:
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the leak of hundreds of thousands of secret diplomatic documents is an attack not only on the United States but also the international community.




Quote:
She said the Obama administration was "aggressively pursuing" those responsible for the leak.

I'm quite certain of this. Feels different when someone is reading your emails doesn't it Hillary?


Quote:
She said the leaks erode trust between nations.

This, of course, is probably true but the blame is mis-directed. I have analogy that might help Hillary better understand all of this.

Let's say that a married man (Person A) decides to cheat on his wife (Person B) with a young co-worker (Person C) and another person (Person D) becomes privy to this infidelity and announces it to the whole world. The trust was broken because of Person A's actions not Person D's revelation of those actions.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #19 of 110
Thread Starter 
"A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." -- James Madison, letter to W.T. Barry, August 4, 1822

"To the press alone, checkered as it is with abuses, the world is indebted for all the triumphs which have been gained by reason and humanity over error and oppression." -- James Madison, Report on the Virginia Resolutions, 1798

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #20 of 110
Why is Wikleaks allowed to continue, if, according to Hillary Clinton and other officials from across the political spectrum, the "revelations" are "an attack on the world", or "threaten the national security" of the not only the US and other allied nations?

A simple possibility, or probability: The leaks posted to the New York Times and others are not really leaks at all, but deliberately managed "data dumps", a version of "limited hangout", the intelligence term used to allow public awareness of relatively mild wrongdoings, or breaches of diplomatic protocols, in order to conceal, or divert attention away from, far more serious abuses, crimes, corruption and atrocities.

This is a classic "kill two birds with one stone" case, with an inbuilt knock-on effect: The leaks are allowed to continue because it reinforces to the US public, the notion that we are a tolerant and open society. By over-hyping and bulling-up the "national security" implications and the resulting (fake) outrage over the "revelations", it gives to the public the impression that tolerance of "freedom of expression" is seen as "more important" than censorship.

If there was any information in the wiki dump that was truly damaging to, for example, the war machine (of which the corporate media is a vital component), or senior political or corporate icons (on either 'side' of the aisle), such information would be kept secret. A repeat of the Pentagon Papers cannot happen in the 2000s; the media would never permit it; there is plenty of harmless pap to keep the populace amused without biting off the hand that feeds them.

Why am I skeptical? The corporate media, especially the current batch of weasels in the boardrooms that run information dissemination policy, are by default only loyal to government when it serves corporate power, and not just US-owned corporations.

The only thing these leaks have caused is a few red faces. Period. These "leaks" are fairy dust, and have been hyped out of all proportion; there is nothing in there that would endanger "US national security", which today can be loosely translated as the financial security, both personal and corporate, of the élites to whom lawmakers answer.

Julian Assange is seen by some to be a traitor, by others a hero. My take is that he is a tool, and has probably been paid handsomely. If he was truly a danger to the status quo, he would not be alive now.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #21 of 110
Thread Starter 
Next target: a major American bank

Quote:
In a rare, two-hour interview conducted in London on November 11, Assange said that he’s still sitting on a trove of secret documents, about half of which relate to the private sector. And WikiLeaks’ next target will be a major American bank. “It will give a true and representative insight into how banks behave at the executive level in a way that will stimulate investigations and reforms, I presume,” he said, adding: “For this, there’s only one similar example. It’s like the Enron emails.”

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #22 of 110
The way to make government responsible is to hold it accountable. And the way to make government accountable is make it transparent so that the American people can know exactly what decisions are being made, how theyre being made, and whether their interests are being well served.

For a long time now, theres been too much secrecy in this cityThat era is now over. Starting today, every agency and department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information but those who seek to make it known.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #23 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The way to make government responsible is to hold it accountable. And the way to make government accountable is make it transparent so that the American people can know exactly what decisions are being made, how theyre being made, and whether their interests are being well served.

For a long time now, theres been too much secrecy in this cityThat era is now over. Starting today, every agency and department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information but those who seek to make it known.

As I read this, I imagined Obama standing behind a podium, smug look of confidence on his face as he read the words on the teleprompter screen and delivered this promise with force and purpose.

How many of you actually believed him?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #24 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Next target: a major American bank

It would be interesting to see what happens when he goes after a private entity. So far Obama has proven too flaccid to take any action against Assange or even the traitor that leaked the documents. Private corporations wont be contained by a sympathetic view Obama has.
post #25 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Next target: a major American bank

Current Target: Free Speech and Freedom in General
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

It would be interesting to see what happens when he goes after a private entity. So far Obama has proven too flaccid to take any action against Assange or even the traitor that leaked the documents. Private corporations wont be contained by a sympathetic view Obama has.

I have somewhat mixed feelings on the bank situation. As far as going after government secrets I have no problem whatsoever and consider this guy to be a hero and certainly not a traitor or terrorist. I figure if the US government can read my emails, bank statements, phone records, etc. then there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to read theirs especially when you consider I've helped to pay for them.

Private institutions are a different matter. Which brings me to the bank...banks are only superficially "private institutions" they are so wrapped up in government protection and cartelization and subsidization that it is really hard to call them "private companies" and keep a straight face.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #27 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I have somewhat mixed feelings on the bank situation. As far as going after government secrets I have no problem whatsoever and consider this guy to be a hero and certainly not a traitor or terrorist. I figure if the US government can read my emails, bank statements, phone records, etc. then there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to read theirs especially when you consider I've helped to pay for them.

Private institutions are a different matter. Which brings me to the bank...banks are only superficially "private institutions" they are so wrapped up in government protection and cartelization and subsidization that it is really hard to call them "private companies" and keep a straight face.

Certainly the enlisted army person is no doubt a criminal and possibly a traitor. Having handed over information that he knew would end up in the enemy's hands. All of the documents are stolen and he did violate his oath.


Assange strikes me as foremost an anti-american sensationalist. He really doesn't care who gets hurt or killed by his actions so long as he can give the US a black eye. He's a child trowing a tantrum. Ya think he'll go after Russia or China next? Too much of a coward for that. Maybe he should target the UN? Naw. Not much of a hero IMO.

I'd like to hear how the banks (and we don't which ones) are cartels and enjoy government protection. Having accepted or forced to take a baiout they are subject to more government oversight but at the end of the day they are private organizations beholden to their shareholders and government regulation. They do have a right to their trade secrets and intellectual property. I think they'll have more stones to go after Assange than Obama does.
post #28 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Certainly the enlisted army person is no doubt a criminal and possibly a traitor. Having handed over information that he knew would end up in the enemy's hands. All of the documents are stolen and he did violate his oath.

Well for fuck's sake. If we're going to talking about oaths and all that, then we can probably throw out almost everyone in Congress and the President too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Assange strikes me as foremost an anti-american sensationalist. He really doesn't care who gets hurt or killed by his actions so long as he can give the US a black eye.

Interesting...this same statement could be used to describe quite a number of the US political leaders including the current President.

NOTE: I wouldn't say that Assange is anti-American as much as he is anti-US government. There's a difference. Big difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Ya think he'll go after Russia or China next? Too much of a coward for that. Maybe he should target the UN? Naw. Not much of a hero IMO.

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe the US government simply provides the best target what with being the smug, arrogant, sanctimonious and hypocritical bully that it is.


Frankly the US government's response to these (and past) leaks is nothing short of astonishingly hypocritical.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'd like to hear how the banks (and we don't which ones) are cartels and enjoy government protection.

The entire banking system via the The Federal Reserve System (which holds a monopoly on the monetary system) is a cartel. All of which is legally enforced and protected by the US government. There is much that can be read on this subject. Not even hard to find.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #29 of 110
Almost a complete non-responce. So these are federal bank documents coming out?
post #30 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Almost a complete non-responce [sic].

Are you serious? Are you describing what you just did? or is that code language for "I don't really like or agree with your post so I
ll simply dismiss it and pretend you didn't say anything?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

So these are federal bank documents coming out?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #31 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Are you serious? Are you describing what you just did?

Yea. You're response consisted of non sequiturs. Me: "that enlisted man violated his oath" You: "Yea congress does too" Huh? Can we stay on topic?




Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


By US law the federal banking system acts as the central bank which you are telling me that is the "cartel" that you were referring to. Certainly not all banks are federal reserve banks, e.g. Goldman, Chase, .... So is your argument that all banks part of the federal reserve "cartel". OR are you telling me that Wikileaks will release documents from the federal reserve which you call a cartel. I'll baby it for you

A) All banks are part of the federal "cartel"
B) Wikileaks has documents from the federal bank "cartel".

A or B?
post #32 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yea. You're response consisted of non sequiturs. Me: "that enlisted man violated his oath" You: "Yea congress does too" Huh? Can we stay on topic?

Well the general topic is that of the federal government of the US expecting certain privileges and rights that it is unwilling to extend to others. So if we want to talk about someone being required to keep oaths then we ought to include those who expect the oaths to be kept and whether they are also keeping their oaths. The bottom line of all this is that members of the US government want one set of rules for them and another set for everyone else. This is called hypocrisy. They want everyone in their command to keep oaths but disregard their own. They want their secrets kept but have no problem digging into others' privacy and secrets and even exposing them. They want to read other people's emails but don't want their own read. And on it goes...


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

By US law the federal banking system acts as the central bank

Technically the the Federal Reserve System is the central bank and all banks are a part of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

which you are telling me that is the "cartel" that you were referring to.

Yes. It is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Certainly not all banks are federal reserve banks,

Actually, they are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

So is your argument that all banks part of the federal reserve "cartel".

Yes. This is not really news. Well, apparently for some it is. \


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'll baby it for you

A) All banks are part of the federal "cartel"
B) Wikileaks has documents from the federal bank "cartel".

A or B?

I'll baby it for you:

A) Yes.
B) Yes.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 110
Actually the topic here is wikileaks. "Is it good? Is it bad?"


No you are wrong the banks. Banks are private businesses that comply with federal law which includes having funds on deposit at one of the federal reserve banks (you do know that there are many and they can act independently right? Not that they do.). They are beholden to their shareholders and not extensions of the fed. Under a normal system when they fuck up they go into bankruptcy and cease to exist.
post #34 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Actually the topic here is wikileaks. "Is it good? Is it bad?"

It is good because it exposes the secret activities of government entities. It creates more transparency.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No you are wrong the banks. Banks are private businesses that comply with federal law which includes having funds on deposit at one of the federal reserve banks (you do know that there are many and they can act independently right? Not that they do.). They are beholden to their shareholders and not extensions of the fed. Under a normal system when they fuck up they go into bankruptcy and cease to exist.

<sigh>

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #35 of 110
"Let the people know the facts and the country will be safe."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #36 of 110
Ignorance will set you free.
post #37 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Ignorance will set you free.

Speaking from experience?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #38 of 110
The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 110
Yea he didn't have any secrets. Well done sir, well done.
post #40 of 110
Quote:

I wish someone bumps him off. I hate his face and him. He is a shit disturber that is all he is.I only hope Sweden puts him in jail and throws away the key.
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