Mossberg: Apple's new MacBook Air offers iPad-like experience - Page 2

I think Apple realized pretty early on that those "convertible" designs were a bad idea. Any moving part is subject to wear & tear over time. The hinge in a standard laptop is a necessary evilbut rotating the hinge about one axis mitigates it somewhat. Rotating a screen around two axes magnifies the problem significantly, and is much more subject to failure, let alone wear and tear.

From my perspective, the main differentiating factor, besides size/weight, between the 13" MBP and the 13" MBA is the battery life -- 10hrs vs. 7hrs, respectively. (And the MBP could be even better without the optical drive, if they used the space for battery.) Not that 7hrs is shabby, but an extra 3hrs is an extra 3hrs. The greater battery life vs. easier portability would be the main consideration for me in choosing one over the other. All the other stuff -- instant on, raw performance, storage capacity, etc. -- seem less important when deciding which one is right than weighing those two factors.

Funny, because the venerable "Now if they would just include this and up this spec and change this I would totally buy one" is the flip side of the "costs more than another machine with exactly the same GPU" moving target I just posted about.

If Apple took the cumulative demands of the average Apple new-release online discussion thread and actually implemented them, every single thing they make would weigh 8 pound and cost $3,000,-- including the iPods.

That's a silly complaint. I agree that the 13" Air isn't all that different from the original--BUT it's a hell of a lot cheaper/better value. Apple says they learned a lot about efficiently designing and developing portable electronics based on their experience with the iPad. Somehow they are lying? They lowered the price, improved the battery, increased the screen size, and made other changes. They switched from off-the-shelf SSDs to raw flash storage, for one thing. Presumably that's an example of an engineering solution developed for the iPad that went straight into the Air. How is Apple to be criticized for telling their story in a way that puts the product in the best light?

I remember back when I had the original 128k Macthe 512k Mac seemed like too much for my needs.

Perhaps not, but they care about repairability. The more generic parts something includes, the easier and cheaper it is to repair or replace.

I know I am not the average user, but I've never had a laptop I didn't at one point upgrade or repair some internal component. Once I had the pleasure of replacing the LCD of an old Compaq. Picked one up on eBay for $40, saved myself a hundred bucks on the repair and got another year and a half out of the thing.

Now imagine the cost of replacing Apple's custom LCD in the air...

-Clive

That was the convincer for me on this round (bought a lot of the first gen MBA's for family and business acquaintances, mostly with SSD's). Use an iPad for a second monitor, and the 13" MBA makes a fantastic traveling 'puter for me.

Now, when all the MBP's go solid state like the MBA's, I'll want to see what they offer, but for the moment, for what I do, the 13" MBA is perfection.

I think Solipsism had already responded to this: "I wonder what percentage of users are actively using more than 64GB on their systems and what percentage of users are actively processing data that requires a faster processor. It seems to me, anecdotally speaking from the majority of people I know, that most use a handful of apps for IM, web browsing, email, and playing video, which can easily be done by the cheapest MBA. Most arent converting large amounts of data, or copying large DV video to edit in iMovie, etc. I think these will be very popular."

The popularity of Apple products speak to the possibility that they are hitting sweet spots in consumer requirements for their PCs. As many have said, if the characteristics of these Apple (fill in the blank) don't meet your needs, buy something else that does. I don't think it's advisable to assume that because you want upgradeability that everyone else thinks that's what they have to have too.

I hear ya. Im a longtime reader of AnandTech. I posted on that thread and on the review of the 13 MBP as a Windows machine. On that latter article I even noted the odd disconnect being the author (who isnt Anand) who praises Apple for components that are far superior to their competitors but at the end says its overpriced by hundreds of dollars because of the CPU, even though that C2Ds used arent much different from the Core-iX based on Intels price list. I think he even mentions on one page how the C2D with the Nvidia 320M is better than a Core-i7 with the IntelHD IGP.

On the new MBAs the 10W ULV, 18W LV and 35W C2Ds are all about the same price across the board of the MacBooks, but BareFeats even questioned how the 11 could be same price as the 13 MBA with the same configuration.
That second paragraph is because of me (unless others emailed BareFeats). Its possible the LCD is cheaper for the 11, especially considering how the 13 LCD seems to be better quality, but I dont think it would account for enough difference to affect the total price to the extent I think BareFeats is assuming.

Yep.

I just saw some article on the "the tablet market" (can't remember where off hand) that referred to the $500 entirely level iPad price as "typical Jobs money grab pricing" or some such, and practically within the same sentence casually referenced a $600 7" screen Android tablet.

It's like these guys long ago set up templates to refer to Apple's "obscene margins" or "the Apple Tax" or "high end boutique pricing" and never bothered to notice that Apple has entered a new era of aggressively priced mobile offerings-- even when it results in flatly self contradictory results.

The flash drive in the new air is modeled along the drives used in the ipod, ipad etc. The flash drives used in the original models were physically very different and much more expensive. The instant resume from sleep is also very much like the experience you get from your ipad.

See what I did there?

I can't help but think you are chumming the waters with link bait for you blog.

Excuse me, but did you happen to miss where I wrote I'd be willing to pay $1500 for that? Hardly "nothing." In fact, that's the cost of an MBP and an iPad combined. Your reading comprehension is abysmal. Eliminate the redundant parts (don't need two screens in one device, only a single bank of flash RAM, only one unibody case, only one battery pack, etc.) and there's no reason it should cost more than both devices combined.

And yes, I do happen to think it's nicer to carry a single device than two separate ones. That's a little something called "convergence" that you may have heard of. Even as slim as the new MBA is, why carry almost 4 pounds of devices instead of just 2.5 pounds of a single device?


I happen to have faith that Apple engineers could design a durable double-axis hinge. Especially with the slimness of Displayport cables (even with currently unused conductors), it would be a lot more durable than the old ribbon cables Apple used to connect LCDs. By the way, I know someone who works in a company that worships HP, so they use all HP equipment from servers on down. His convertible has been going strong for the last three years despite daily use. No loose hinge. He says other convertibles in the same company are fine as well. This isn't just guesswork and conjecture. This is actual real-world experience.

I accept your word on that. But, I'm also pretty sure that Apple's engineers and designers looked at the dual-axis hinge option and decided not to go that route for whatever reason (who really can say what goes on in their crazy heads?!?!).

The 11" MacBook Air would TOTALLY meet my needs. Sadly, I'm poor. Sigh.

I'll make a case for the 13" model
I prefer this because the screen, battery life and processor make it closer to a real MacBook, than an iPad. It loses a bit of portability, but it is still in the same featherweight class as the 11" model. The screen is the same resolution as the 15" MacBook Pro (1440x900 version). The only thing your giving up is the drive capacity and top-end CPU options. And it battery life is absolutely amazing, approaching 10+ hours if you conserve power.

You only need one kidney to live

Okay, that made me blow milk up my nose.

Is it just me or do Walt's articles always sound as though he is a bit underwhelmed by Apples products...the iPhone, iPad and not the best laptop on the market for portability?

It's almost he is "hedging" so as not to appear too enamored with Apple.

I read this article in the WSJ day today and he comes across like an old fuddy duddy! Ugggh!

I mean in his help column he is always recommending Windows products, just like Consumer Reports...I mean do they even use computers?

Best.

As a grown man, what are you doing drinking a liquid with the exact molarity as blood designed for a baby cow! Just say'n!

Best

PS. If you ever cut off a finger...don't put it in your pocket and run to the Emergency Room...drop it in a glass of milk and then run to the Emergency Room! Good luck!

I never said it wasn't mixed with something.

Ya. But I've kinda grown attached to my kidneys. Besides, how would I decide which to let go???

I've heard you're supposed to do that if you get a tooth knocked out, but severed digits as well?? And, some hapless dude would get the shock of his life when he sees the glass of milk sitting on the counter while you're filling out your paperwork, and thinks "Ah, a glass of milkthat's exactly what I need!", and guzzles it down without asking.

I'm not knocking the MBA, because they look like very nice machines, but this doesn't make much sense. It is also very easy to go solid state on a MBP. The harddisk is easily replaceable, and for less than 400$ you can buy a very decent 128G SSD. Much less for a 64G one.

Wouldn't packed in crushed ice be better?

Processor speed doesn't seem to be an issue with Mossberg either.

The woman in the Exxon commercial, of the Mossberg video review, reminded me of Apple's Jony Ive lol.

I like the laptops, both the 11.6 and 13 inch models, BUT THEY ARE JUST LAPTOPS!!!! They are no more inspired by the iPad than a standard Macbook/Pro with an SSD. Now if this also ran iOS (convertible tablet style) then they could make such a claim. Right now, it is just a small (albiet nice) laptop with an SSD drive.

i would assume everyone has a laptop and many would also have an ipad, why on earth would someone buy one of these then?

Some possible answers off the top of my head

A1: Because your assumption about everyone having a laptop is wrong.
A2: Because people want replacements for their mobile computing gear.
A3: Because the new MBAs may be more ideal than either or both of those machines for certain customers.

Even though Apple has apparently drawn knowledge gained from the design and consumer use of the iPad, AppleInsider continues to compare the 11.6" MacBook air with this product. I find it slightly frustrating, because although both are ultra portable, clearly they are very different. As far as I know, the only similarities rest in solid state storage, size, and weight. I find the iPad to have limited functionality that serves its own purpose, and to lack the zen-like user experience of a product such as the MacBook Air 11.6". Having said that, I see that the iPad is a popular product naturally, and can also see that it is a machine of creative genius.

.....

I found a lot of "hype" in Apple's "marketing" of the new MBA. But I didn't see or hear anything in the presentation to suggest that they were "dishonest"—that's a very strong accusation! In order for your claim to have any legitimacy, you have to point out statements they deliberately made, knowing they were false.

Tods got booted just for spamming software in the signature and blog self-promotion. If you see a possibly spammy link, please report it, and if you must quote, remove the link. I've removed quotes featuring links from Tods.


The need for the optical drive is waning, even if the desire is still there. The OS is on a stick, which is probably the biggest piece of software most people buy. Most of my software, be it free, open source, shareware or paid, is downloaded, and Apple's Mac software service will only continue this. For the occasional software that's only on disc, if you have another computer at home, you can install software over a remote drive and save the $80 or so, whatever the price for that drive is these days. If you need to have the optical drive to play movies anywhere, then the MacBook or small MBP is a better choice. Frankly, on my most recent trip, I just played Netflix instant for the odd video, even though I did bring a couple DVDs along.


I'm sure they're mostly different people. While you can't please everyone, but this is being impossible to please. I'm increasingly baffled by the notion that the entire product line has to appeal to a given person or group. That's simply not how market segmentation and product differentiation works. They increasingly sound like armchair business people that only understand their own world and don't seem to try to put themselves in the shoes of different kinds of people.

Yup. I think you're right. I recently got FileMaker Pro 11 on DVD, but on their site, there's the option of a direct download. Similarly, I was happy to discover that the StarCraft 2 DVD does not need to be in the drive in order to play once the game is installed. About a year ago, I downloaded a 5 GB home design software packageit took a while, but it was nice not having yet another disc and associated paper/box stuff to deal with. I find myself using my DVD drive less and less as time goes on.

Because I'm "one of those" tree-huggers, I must say, I'm quite happy about this trend away from physical mediasaves on manufacturing, packaging, literature, and associated "collateral damage".

It seems clear that Apple will not support Blu-ray and will be removing the ODDs from their notebooks. The question is when will they make this leap with their notebooks.

After that, I wonder what will change with when a full=sized notebook gets the ODD removed. Besides saving 5.25 of port-side space we get a large portion of the internal space freed up. About 25% of the 13 MB/MBP.

I assume that Apple will continue this wedge shaped design, but thicker, for the future MB/MBPs. They could put ports on each side at the back and make the battery larger whilst reducing overall volume and weight.

Would these have a space for one of their unique SSD designs, a typical 2.5 HDD/SDD or (hopefully) both? For the latter, they could make the space for a maximum 9.5mm drive for storage and allow for their thin SSD for the boot drive. I see no downsides to this option.

I think Steve meant mostly in terms of manufacturing and design technique (i.e. Flash drive on a card rather than a a drive enclosure, slim design, battery dominance, cramming lots of hi-techness in a very small physical space) as opposed to operation/user experience. Obviously there are differences between OS X and iOS. The functional similarity between the iPad and the MBA is the "instant-on" capability.

He did say, after all (I'm paraphrasing here): "We took what we learned about how to make the iPad and applied it to the new MBAs". I see no fundamental problem with that claim.

I think you're right about the wedge shape for the MBPs. My guess is that they'll probably also be a bit thinner, though thicker than the MBAs. In the space left over from the removal of the ODD, they'll probably do some combination of two more memory slots (the current MBPs top out at 8 GB, right?) , more battery volume, and more graphics juice (1 GB in the 17"?). A couple more USB ports wouldn't hurt!

YES. Everyone including technology journalists, bloggers, etc. please get Instant On correct. It is not "Boot" nor "Wake From Sleep".

"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called STANDBY MODE. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week — even up to an entire month later — and it wakes in an instant."

http://www.apple.com/macbookair/design.html

Hmmm... I never had a problem with this. I never assumed that "instant-on" meant "boot up". I always assumed that "instant-on" meant that once you opened it, the screen would come on and it would be usable within a couple of seconds, as opposed to my current MacBook, where I have to wait for the HD to spin up and everything. Maybe I'm just smarter than everyone else. <KIDDING!!!>

I'd say the next revision of MacBook Pro will almost certainly have the optical drive removed, but the HDD remain with SSD as cheaper options. The next revision of MBP will have "the wedge" design and shave off some weight.

With the current MacBook Air design, Apple has set a new benchmark in form factor that the next MacBook Pros must meet because customer expectations are now so very high.

Heck, I don't want a new MacBook Pro unless it's something like the MacBook Air.

The next revision to MacBook Pro 13", 15" and 17" will be huge. They might do just a specification bump if they're struggling with production, but my guess is that they will maintain the current MBP models for at least 3-6 months until they can roll out the new ass-kicking MBP line.

Full conversion across the line to SSD-on-a-stick probably only early 2012 or holiday season 2011.

But errr... you're incorrect. You're referring to Sleep as well, which is not Instant On as Apple defines it. Instant On is waking up from Deep Sleep/Hibernate, not Sleep. (Though for most intents and purposes people will just take it as opening the lid no matter what and it's instant on, whether it's been asleep for 10 minutes or 10 days). But technically --->

If your MBA is asleep for less than one hour, then when opening it, yes it is very quick to wake up from Sleep.

Regular MacBook/Pros go to sleep and then remain asleep but still powered on for as long as the battery lasts.

Regular MacBook/Pros have Deep Sleep/Hibernate which occurs when the laptop is sleeping and then runs out of battery, it goes to Deep Sleep/Hibernate to preserve contents of memory and essentially shuts down the computer. When starting on again, it takes about a minute for the laptop to read contents of memory from the hard disk and restore the state of the OS back to the point when it first went into normal Sleep.

However, the true beauty and meaning of Instant On is when your MBA is asleep for MORE than one hour, it goes into Deep Sleep/Hibernate - whereby contents of memory are stored to disk, which does not happen in regular Sleep. It is in this Deep Sleep/Hibernate mode that the MBA can go for 30 days, and from this mode, that it awakes, Instant On.