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Mossberg: Apple's new MacBook Air offers iPad-like experience - Page 3

post #81 of 148
10/28/10 at 10:02pm
I know I'm starting to sound like an ass, but I'm surprised people are missing the point of Instant On. It's a pretty amazing achievement. Before, you couldn't really put your laptop in a bag asleep (due to heat issues, there's still electric current running... I know some people do anyways). And, you can't leave it on sleep because that drains the battery and after 1 to 8 hours, will totally kill the battery.

Instant On is actually a really smart Deep Sleep mode. It's *never* been done this way on a Mac portable. And it means you open your laptop, close it, chuck it in a bag, whatever, without having to even worry about shutting down. Open, use, in the middle of something, close, two days later, open continue. Battery life absolutely preserved. Even the new MBA regular sleep mode must consume an enormously smaller amount of battery life than normal laptops' sleep mode.
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post #82 of 148
10/28/10 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

But errr... you're incorrect. You're referring to Sleep as well, which is not Instant On as Apple defines it. Instant On is waking up from Deep Sleep/Hibernate, not Sleep. (Though for most intents and purposes people will just take it as opening the lid no matter what and it's instant on, whether it's been asleep for 10 minutes or 10 days). But technically --->

If your MBA is asleep for less than one hour, then when opening it, yes it is very quick to wake up from Sleep.

Regular MacBook/Pros go to sleep and then remain asleep but still powered on for as long as the battery lasts.

Regular MacBook/Pros have Deep Sleep/Hibernate which occurs when the laptop is sleeping and then runs out of battery, it goes to Deep Sleep/Hibernate to preserve contents of memory and essentially shuts down the computer. When starting on again, it takes about a minute for the laptop to read contents of memory from the hard disk and restore the state of the OS back to the point when it first went into normal Sleep.

However, the true beauty and meaning of Instant On is when your MBA is asleep for MORE than one hour, it goes into Deep Sleep/Hibernate - whereby contents of memory are stored to disk, which does not happen in regular Sleep. It is in this Deep Sleep/Hibernate mode that the MBA can go for 30 days, and from this mode, that it awakes, Instant On.

Ya. I gathered thatthe difference between "sleep" and "standby". I was just focusing more on the user experience. The average user won't care what it's called, or what mode it's in. They'll just be happy to experience the quick activation when they open it. That was the gist of my comment. Whether I communicated that adequately is another issue.
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #83 of 148
10/28/10 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Ya. I gathered thatthe difference between "sleep" and "standby". I was just focusing more on the user experience. The average user won't care what it's called, or what mode it's in. They'll just be happy to experience the quick activation when they open it. That was the gist of my comment. Whether I communicated that adequately is another issue.

No worries... I get what you're saying now.
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post #84 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huby View Post

I'd choose a normal macbook over a macbook air. (compared 999 dollar macbook vs 999 dollar macbook air). The 11" may be interesting because of being smaller, but buying the 13" would be just dumb (in my humble opinion).

The 11 inch Mac Mini is fantastic. The 13 is great too, but if you want a Mini, I'd choose the little one. It is so sweet.
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post #85 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

The guys offers one quibble about memory size in an overwhelmingly positive review and you call him a dork? What's the matter with you?



He's a Mac.
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post #86 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The columnist with The Wall Street Journal said that the new thin-and-light machines likely won't be able to serve as a primary computer for power users, but should be enough for light-duty users.

Provided good entrepreneurial souls promise us custom flash storage solutions, the machine is of certain interest for power crowd, too. It sure won't be a primary one and will first find its home in our ladyship; still, we're sold on it.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #87 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

With that variable out of the way, most people will realize that the CPU is actually a very capable piece of silicon.

The CPU would have been considered a hot-shit piece of tech just 5 years ago. The CPU is no longer the bottleneck. IMO, the bus structure is just as important in today's world.

So what bus speed does the Mini use? What RAM speed does it use?
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post #88 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post



LOL! That is so true. There is much to be said in the above statement that the ranters here just don't seem to get.

"But the Ferrari is also made of aluminum, glass, plastic and rubber too! It uses pistons and gasoline also!! I can get all that from a Kia, so using my amazing, superior intelligence I have determined that Ferrari is only ripping off the consumer and the Ferrari-fanbois will follow anything with a Stallion logo."



But the MacBook Minis are more like Mini Coopers or SmartCars than they are like Ferraris. As such, comparing them to a Volkswagen Bug is appropriate.
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post #89 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:51am
This is interesting topic. Trolls - auf wiedersehen...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #90 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

That sounds like your classic PC laptop with lashings of glossy features - and ultimately useless. A bit like the Homermobil



Yeah?

"a multitouch display that can flip and fold back over the keyboard like the convertible PC tablets and give it the capability to run iOS as well as Mac OS apps,"


I've never seen a classic PC laptop that does that.

OH! Wait! You just wanted to say anything bad about Windows. now I get it! Very funny!
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post #91 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:56am
Linuxoid is not really getting...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #92 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think you're all wrong on this. the new plastic MacBook is junky looking in person and a dirt magnet with the rubberised bottom. It has "stop gap product" written all over it. The baseline plastic MacBook is aimed squarely at the student market, but the Airs are a much better value proposition and much more desirable than that piece of plastic junk.

Wait. Did you just call an Apple product a piece of junk?
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post #93 of 148
10/29/10 at 4:58am
That's normal to stay such a bonehead when you're with ubuntu...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #94 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I have to be a movie star to criticise a review?



Nope. He said you need to write reviews and star in video reviews in order to criticize video reviews.

It is a riff on Steve's patented put downs.

The last time I saw him use it, he told someone in an email that they had no right to criticize one of his decisions because they had not accomplished anything at all in their miserable (compared to Steve's) life. (It had something to do with capricious AppStore decision, IIRC). It was not the first time I saw Steve insult somebody in that manner. It has become a popular putdown in some circles of Apple users, despite the fact that it makes no real sense at all.
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post #95 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:04am
Still, the storage is not a problem on new MBA.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #96 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

YES. Everyone including technology journalists, bloggers, etc. please get Instant On correct. It is not "Boot" nor "Wake From Sleep".

"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called STANDBY MODE. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week — even up to an entire month later — and it wakes in an instant."

http://www.apple.com/macbookair/design.html

I'm pretty sure it's a stage of sleep, maybe its a definition problem or a communication problem. Apple likes to give its own term to things, and that throws people off. Last I recall, Intel has something like five or more stages of sleep. It seems to me that "Instant On" might be a bit of a misnomer because the machine is never really off.
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post #97 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:16am
Instant on was called so for journalists. Otherwise, we'd have lost them in the middle of the sentence.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #98 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


I guess I would "expect to pay" $400 less if the notebook in question were simply a low specced Dell that weighed 4 or 5 pounds with shoddy build quality that got 3 hours of battery life, but WTF? What is this insistence on comparing the price of Apple gear according to an ever changing set of limited criteria seemingly tuned to put the result in the worst possible light?


I think it is fair to compare bang for buck. That way, for example, if one were buying a car, one might opt for the small econobox if one were looking at a tiny cars, instead of opting for the tiny sports car.

Why you'd be looking at a sports car when one wants an economy car is unknown. If somebody wants a cheap laptop, they won't even consider the MacBook Minis. The Minis are luxury items, and not comparable in any manner to similarly-speced lower-priced laptops.

Bang for buck with these machines is as irrelevant as looking at the gas mileage spec on tiny sports cars.
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post #99 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

I remember back when I had the original 128k Macthe 512k Mac seemed like too much for my needs.

Back in the bad old days, Bill Gates was famous for claiming that nobody needed more than 64 Megs. I bought my //c in part because it had a huge amount of RAM - 128k.
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post #100 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:19am
Still it's hardly an iPad experience. The weight feels absolutely natural in the case of MBA.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #101 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'm pretty sure it's a stage of sleep, maybe its a definition problem or a communication problem. Apple likes to give its own term to things, and that throws people off. Last I recall, Intel has something like five or more stages of sleep. It seems to me that "Instant On" might be a bit of a misnomer because the machine is never really off.

Ah, for me, I think it's fine. We don't question "Instant On" on the iPad, it simply is, Instant On. Obviously it is never truly off until you shut it down.

It's marketing... Whether it is appropriately termed or not, I just wanted to point out that people keep mistaking that particular mode for Boot or normal Sleep. It's quite different. It seems at this stage to be a communication issue from Apple's side, I think a lot of journalists are simply glossing over it, and saying, oh well, it just wakes up from sleep real fast, no biggie...

It's a huge jump for Macs. Most Macs cannot go more than 8 hours in sleep mode without being connected to a power source. MacBook Air supposedly can go up to 30 days. This is big, really big.
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post #102 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Now imagine the cost of replacing Apple's custom LCD in the air...

-Clive

You'll never find one. The Air is not a popular machine.

If you had a Porsche, not one of the popular models, but instead, one of the unusual ones, and needed a windshield, you would be unlikely to find one in a junkyard. You would buy a new one. Same iwth the Air. You can't expect to find used parts for obscure machines in general.
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post #103 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That second paragraph is because of me (unless others emailed BareFeats). Its possible the LCD is cheaper for the 11, especially considering how the 13 LCD seems to be better quality, but I dont think it would account for enough difference to affect the total price to the extent I think BareFeats is assuming.


The price is pretty much wholly irrelevant. If the machine is something that a buyer wants, a few hundred bucks one way or the other won't make any difference.

And it especially does not matter that some other product shares the same price point. Nobody would buy the MacBook Mini if they wanted a powerful machine, period. And if they wanted a powerful machine for less money, they wouldn't even be looking at it.

The price and the relative specs are not very important with this class of machine.
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post #104 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:29am
Hi Newtron/appl/etc...! Welcome back!
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post #105 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I mean in his help column he is always recommending Windows products, just like Consumer Reports...I mean do they even use computers?

Best.

He is impartial. Don't expect him to act like a fanboy. He is not the enemy, he is a judge.

He is not yet on any official enemies list, unlike CR.

Mossberg is not Adobe. Or Microsoft. Or Michael Dell. Or any of the other official enemies.

You can put him on super secret double probation if you want, but he is not yet an enemy.
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post #106 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hi Newtron/appl/etc...! Welcome back!

Yes, already been reported. A solution, as temporary as it is with trolls, should be forthcoming.
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post #107 of 148
10/29/10 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Yes, already been reported. A solution, as temporary as it is with trolls, should be forthcoming.

Why bother? The software you guys use is incapable of accomplishing your goal.
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post #108 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

The price is pretty much wholly irrelevant. If the machine is something that a buyer wants, a few hundred bucks one way or the other won't make any difference.

And it especially does not matter that some other product shares the same price point. Nobody would buy the MacBook Mini if they wanted a powerful machine, period. And if they wanted a powerful machine for less money, they wouldn't even be looking at it.

The price and the relative specs are not very important with this class of machine.

I wasnt going to get into it on this or the forums in question, but youre absolutely right. Prices arent based on the cost to produce the item plus some magic profit percentage. Its what the market can bear. Since no one else is really competing directly for these powerful ultra-portables Apple can increase their profit margins. Since Apple has economy of scale from having a limited number of products they can increase their profit margin. MS got record profits from the economy of scale on SW.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #109 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

Why bother? The software you guys use is incapable of accomplishing your goal.

At least they are trying. Its not as if the mods get paid for their service.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #110 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:06am
Apparently, selling with lesser margins becomes common in Apple business model. Should have happened after 15% of market share was reached.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #111 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wasnt going to get into it on this or the forums in question, but youre absolutely right. Prices arent based on the cost to produce the item plus some magic profit percentage. Its what the market can bear. Since no one else is really competing directly for these powerful ultra-portables Apple can increase their profit margins. Since Apple has economy of scale from having a limited number of products they can increase their profit margin. MS got record profits from the economy of scale on SW.

It is good to know that my points are valid.

It is what the market will bear, and if you have something as nice as the Mini 11, the price becomes less of a burden. People will want it, unless it is just silly-expensive. And it is not. It is within reach of many people who want something very nice.
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post #112 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Apparently, selling with lesser margins becomes common in Apple business model. Should have happened after 15% of market share was reached.

Marketshare isn’t a good measure here because it’s based on the unit sales of the entire market as a whole, not on the number of units you’ve sold by a particular company. For instance, when netbooks were taking off we saw Apple make record unit sales, revenue and profits in their Mac division, but lose market share.

Because these new MBAs are priced so low I can see a drop in profit per unit, but the uptick in sales should outweigh that (assuming they priced their products correctly for the market).

Note: Apple predicted lower estimates on the iPad as they are unable to get components fast enough to meet their expected demand. This is another reason why pricing is so important. Had they known this a year ago they could have started out with a base price of $599, not $499, making $100 in additional profit per unit and likely sold just as many. Of course, i’m glad to pay less, but that’s me a a consumer.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #113 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:22am
Stop trolling. Not fair.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #114 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Stop trolling. Not fair.

Is that directed toward moi?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #115 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is that directed toward moi?

Both you and that another little troll in here. Stop trolling.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #116 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Both you and that another little troll in here. Stop trolling.

It might behoove you to look up the definition to internet trolling.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #117 of 148
10/29/10 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It might behoove you to look up the definition to internet trolling.

I did. I know what I'm talking about.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #118 of 148
10/29/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

Back in the bad old days, Bill Gates was famous for claiming that nobody needed more than 64 Megs. ...

The "famous" quote was that 640k ought to be enough for anyone - not 64 "Megs" as you say. No personal computer had anything near 64 Mb RAM until at least the late 90s.

He denies ever having made such a claim though.

If you're going to misquote someone, at least misquote correctly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

... The Air is not a popular machine.

Really?
A is A
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post #119 of 148
10/29/10 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

The "famous" quote was that 640k ought to be enough for anyone - not 64 "Megs" as you say. No personal computer had anything near 64 Mb RAM until at least the late 90s.

He denies ever having made such a claim though.

If you're going to misquote someone, at least misquote correctly




Thanks. I should have posted more carefully. I wasn't thinking.
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post #120 of 148
10/29/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I know I'm starting to sound like an ass, but I'm surprised people are missing the point of Instant On. It's a pretty amazing achievement. Before, you couldn't really put your laptop in a bag asleep (due to heat issues, there's still electric current running... I know some people do anyways). And, you can't leave it on sleep because that drains the battery and after 1 to 8 hours, will totally kill the battery.

What? None of this makes any sense. Even the old Powerbook G4s could sleep for 3-4 days before the battery was drained. 1 to 8 hours? That's the battery life of a laptop continuously powered on! There's no way sleep could possibly eat that much power. What heat issues? I've never seen a sleeping laptop that got hot or even vaguely warm. The whole point of sleep is to just keep the dynamic RAM powered up so its contents aren't lost. Just how much power do you think it takes to refresh RAM?
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