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Apple countersues Motorola over multi-touch iPhone patents

post #1 of 100
Thread Starter 
As expected, Apple has responded to a patent suit from Motorola with its own legal action, accusing the company of violating six patents related to multi-touch features found in the iPhone.

Apple filed two lawsuits on Friday in a U.S. District Court in the Western District of Wisconsin. The Cupertino, Calif., company seeks to prove to the court that Motorola has violated six patents related to multi-touch gestures first pioneered with the iPhone.

Apple's suit names a number of popular Motorola handsets as infringing. Those named in the complaint are the Droid, Droid 2, Droid X, Cliq, Cliq XT, BackFlip, Devour A555, Devour i1 and Charm 1.

The patents named in Apple's suit are:
U.S. Patent No. 7,812,828 - "Elipse fitting for multi-touch surfaces"
U.S. Patent No. 7,663,607 - "Multipoint touchscreen"
U.S. Patent No. 5,379,430 - "Object-oriented system locator system"
U.S. Patent No. 7,479,949 - "Touch screen device, method, and graphical user interface for determining commands by applying heuristics"
U.S. Patent No. 6,493,002 - "Method and apparatus for displaying and accessing control and status information in a computer system"
U.S. Patent No. 5,838,315 - "Support for custom user-interaction elements in a graphical, event-driven computer system"
The legal action is in response to a lawsuit filed earlier in October with the U.S. International Trade Commission by Motorola against Apple. In that case, Motorola has accused the iPhone, iPod touch and certain Macs of infringing on patents related to a range of technologies, including 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless, and antenna design.

Motorola has asserted that it attempted to license technology to Apple, and engaged in "lengthy negotiations" with the iPhone maker, but a deal could not be reached. The company has claimed that Apple "refused" to pay for a license.

Motorola also took preemptive action against Apple earlier this month, in anticipation of a countersuit, and asked a court to invalidate 11 iPhone-related patents. None of the 11 patents named in Motorola's complaint are included in Apple's lawsuit.

Those patents were, however, used in a suit Apple filed against HTC earlier this year. Motorola noted to the court that Apple has a "history of asserting" that handsets running Google's Android mobile operating system violate the 11 named patents.
post #2 of 100
Protect whats yours.
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post #3 of 100
Well, they are apples patents after all.
post #4 of 100
Apple will kick HTC and Moto's butts as soon as they release the iPhone to Verizon.

Then then they will beat them again in terms of costs of Patent Licensing. Moto may go back in the red after paying their legal fees.

Time will tell.
post #5 of 100
When Steve first showed multi-touch on the iPhone 2G way back at Macworld 2007, he said "Boy have we patented it."

He wasn't kidding.

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post #6 of 100
Apple must be scared..

oh wait, that's only a valid reply when its others suing apple
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post #7 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Apple must be scared..

oh wait, that's only a valid reply when its others suing apple

What are you smoking? Apple produced multitouch phones first, and everyone said they'll never work. Then when they worked, everyone went out and copied the iPhone as fast as they could. Then Motorola sued Apple. Now Apple countersues. And sure enough, here you are, trolling.
post #8 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

What are you smoking? Apple produced multitouch phones first, and everyone said they'll never work. Then when they worked, everyone went out and copied the iPhone as fast as they could. Then Motorola sued Apple. Now Apple countersues. And sure enough, here you are, trolling.

Nokia sues apple for patents they well and truly own, yet when that occurred "oh nokia are scared, they cant compete, yada yada yada"

pots are always a different shade when its apple


Lets see the last thread about motorola suing apple, one of the first posts

Quote:
when you can't innovate, litigate!
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post #9 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Nokia sues apple for patents they well and truly own, yet when that occurred "oh nokia are scared, they cant compete, yada yada yada"

pots are always a different shade when its apple


Lets see the last thread about motorola suing apple, one of the first posts

If you want a balanced dialog, try a neutral site...

this is an apple rumors site, as such most people on it are pro-apple.

That said, this looks like the inevitable result of having everyone ignore everyone else's IP.
post #10 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple filed two lawsuits on Friday in a U.S. District Court in the Western District of Wisconsin.

Why WI?
post #11 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

If you want a balanced dialog, try a neutral site...

this is an apple rumors site, as such most people on it are pro-apple.

That said, this looks like the inevitable result of having everyone ignore everyone else's IP.

So what you are saying is if you want a rational, intelligent discussion, an Apple forum is not the place to have it?
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post #12 of 100
It would seem Motorola still can't forget STARMAX.
post #13 of 100
"If you can't compete, litigate."

Sounds like a familiar quote from all the forum topics defending Apple when they got sued. Oh, how hilarious it is when the tables are turned! Hypocrites.
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post #14 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Nokia sues apple for patents they well and truly own, yet when that occurred "oh nokia are scared, they cant compete, yada yada yada"

pots are always a different shade when its apple

Not at all.

Nokia sued for patents that by all reports they refused to license under the fair and nondiscriminatory terms that they are obligated to offer. That's why Apple refused to license them.

Nokia's report essentially confirms that. If they were using 'fair and nondiscriminatory' terms, as required by their membership in the cell phone consortium, there would be no need for lengthy negotiations. Simply "these are the terms that everybody in the industry receives."

They were clearly trying to extract extra money from Apple and Apple exercised their rights to decline to pay illegally requested license fees.
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post #15 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Nokia sues apple for patents they well and truly own, yet when that occurred "oh nokia are scared, they cant compete, yada yada yada"

pots are always a different shade when its apple


Lets see the last thread about motorola suing apple, one of the first posts

Like the patents Apple "truly" own, or are you trying to imply that Apple don't "truly" own the patents that were granted to them in exactly the same way that Nokia's patents were granted to Nokia?.
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post #16 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

"If you can't compete, litigate."

Sounds like a familiar quote from all the forum topics defending Apple when they got sued. Oh, how hilarious it is when the tables are turned! Hypocrites.

Funny though, because all smart phones are trying to still copy the look and feel of the iPhone, and let's talk about app stores, everyone else is still trying to copy apples model.
post #17 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Funny though, because all smart phones are trying to still copy the look and feel of the iPhone, and let's talk about app stores, everyone else is still trying to copy apples model.

Apple copied its competitors with including a front-facing camera and dual microphones for noise cancellation.

Heck, if you want to talk about copying, you might as well include all the GUI elements that Apple blatantly ripped off PalmOS.
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post #18 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple copied its competitors with including a front-facing camera and dual microphones for noise cancellation.

Heck, if you want to talk about copying, you might as well include all the GUI elements that Apple blatantly ripped off PalmOS.

You didn't just compare the iPhone with a stylus-based interface, did you? Please don't tell me you did.

In that case, well, Palm OS to be frank, sucked balls. I mean the interface was clunky, the RAM was limited, and the colors... well there wasn't any. They may have not patented the icon screen concept, so that's why Android can have a home screen and be ok. Apple isn't suing over the home screen, get over it.

Secondly, how many phones have had video chatting that was actually easy to use. I can't think of a phone besides iphone that consumers would want off the top of my head that did so. and saying it copied the Droid X in doing dual microphones... oh please. it takes years to plan out a phone of this caliber and i very much doubt that apple would know what motorola was doing before they introduced the droid x to try to "copy" it.
post #19 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

You didn't just compare the iPhone with a stylus-based interface, did you? Please don't tell me you did.

In that case, well, Palm OS to be frank, sucked balls. I mean the interface was clunky, the RAM was limited, and the colors... well there wasn't any. They may have not patented the icon screen concept, so that's why Android can have a home screen and be ok. Apple isn't suing over the home screen, get over it.

Secondly, how many phones have had video chatting that was actually easy to use. I can't think of a phone besides iphone that consumers would want off the top of my head that did so. and saying it copied the Droid X in doing dual microphones... oh please. it takes years to plan out a phone of this caliber and i very much doubt that apple would know what motorola was doing before they introduced the droid x to try to "copy" it.

1) No, I compared the iPhone's display elements with those of PalmOS, and there is direct evidence of blatant rip-off. It doesn't matter that 8 year-old technology appears older than 3 year old technology. The fact that Apple ripped the technology off is self-evident proof enough.

2) The dual-microphone technology was incorporated by the Nexus One long before the iPhone 4 came out.

3) The Sprint Evo 4g had the front-facing camera before the iPhone 4. The front-facing camera on the Evo is incredibly easy to use, arguably much easier to use than the FaceTime app on the iPhone.


And, I guarantee you that Apple will rip-off the idea of using 4g data speeds in a phone from competitors once Apple releases the next version. But, I'm sure you'll turn a blind eye to that one as well.
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post #20 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro;

1) No, I compared the iPhone's display elements with those of PalmOS, and there is direct evidence of blatant rip-off. It doesn't matter that 8 year-old technology appears older than 3 year old technology. The fact that Apple ripped the technology off is self-evident proof enough.

SNIP

If you go back another decade you will find that Palm started out as a Newton developer. If you want to talk about prior art to any mobile OS, look no further than Apple's Newton OS.
post #21 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

1) No, I compared the iPhone's display elements with those of PalmOS, and there is direct evidence of blatant rip-off. It doesn't matter that 8 year-old technology appears older than 3 year old technology. The fact that Apple ripped the technology off is self-evident proof enough.

2) The dual-microphone technology was incorporated by the Nexus One long before the iPhone 4 came out.

3) The Sprint Evo 4g had the front-facing camera before the iPhone 4. The front-facing camera on the Evo is incredibly easy to use, arguably much easier to use than the FaceTime app on the iPhone.


And, I guarantee you that Apple will rip-off the idea of using 4g data speeds in a phone from competitors once Apple releases the next version. But, I'm sure you'll turn a blind eye to that one as well.

"rip-off" /= patent infringement. "previously seen feature" /= patent infringement.

"Apple will rip-off the idea of using 4g data speeds in a phone" LOL. What else was 4G designed for!?

Maybe you should drop the "pro" from your user name.
post #22 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

Why WI?

Speed and favorable to plaintiffs



http://wistechnology.com/articles/3771/
post #23 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


Heck, if you want to talk about copying, you might as well include all the GUI elements that Apple blatantly ripped off PalmOS.

Personally, I wish that they had ripped off a few more...
post #24 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

In that case, well, Palm OS to be frank, sucked balls. I mean the interface was clunky, the RAM was limited, and the colors... well there wasn't any. .


This comment seems to be rooted in ignorance.





There is color. There are also folders, which apple added just recently. The OS was way ahead of its time, and Apple is just catching up in certain important respects.
post #25 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple copied its competitors with including a front-facing camera and dual microphones for noise cancellation.

Oh please. Then I can call pretty much every notebook maker an Apple copier because macbooks were the first notebooks with cameras

Front-facing camera and noise cancellation are additional, supplementary features, so that's like saying everyone also copied Apple with ambient light sensors on phones... that's just a logical step to take.

Multitouch defines the very essence of the product. It's completely different

Quote:
Heck, if you want to talk about copying, you might as well include all the GUI elements that Apple blatantly ripped off PalmOS.

That OS made by former Apple engineers?

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post #26 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

There are also folders, which apple added just recently. The OS was way ahead of its time, and Apple is just catching up in certain important respects.

God nonononononononononononononono not another troll to this board. By your logic Windows Mobile 6 was "ahead of its time" just because it included folders before iOS. Which is downright batshit insane

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post #27 of 100
if only they could cancel each other out and we not hear from either company regarding legalities for a few years. sick of seeing and hearing about these legal thugs and their bull****.
post #28 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

1)
3) The Sprint Evo 4g had the front-facing camera before the iPhone 4. The front-facing camera on the Evo is incredibly easy to use, arguably much easier to use than the FaceTime app on the iPhone.

Funny I never heard of this incredible camera before. Pretty much everyone says iPhone 4's camera blows other smartphones out of the water, or at the very least gets even.
And how is FaceTime not easy to use?

Quote:
And, I guarantee you that Apple will rip-off the idea of using 4g data speeds in a phone from competitors once Apple releases the next version. But, I'm sure you'll turn a blind eye to that one as well.

Moderator, is this enough proof to you that he's a troll and you should.... you know.... BAN him?

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post #29 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

So what you are saying is if you want a rational, intelligent discussion, an Apple forum is not the place to have it?

I think it's obvious that there is no place to have a rational, intelligent discussion with you.
post #30 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

"If you can't compete, litigate."

Sounds like a familiar quote from all the forum topics defending Apple when they got sued. Oh, how hilarious it is when the tables are turned! Hypocrites.

Oh great, you're back?...
post #31 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

There are also folders, which apple added just recently.

As recent as 25 years ago.

post #32 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Oh please. Then I can call pretty much every notebook maker an Apple copier because macbooks were the first notebooks with cameras

Front-facing camera and noise cancellation are additional, supplementary features, so that's like saying everyone also copied Apple with ambient light sensors on phones... that's just a logical step to take.

Multitouch defines the very essence of the product. It's completely different



That OS made by former Apple engineers?

apple engineers didn't make touch technology. apple aquired the company and the engineers. so what is your point regarding palm os?
oh right, you are under the delusion that apple builds and invents/ codes everything in house and has never stolen/borrowed/used any idea/software/hardware that originated outside of infinite loop.
post #33 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

This comment seems to be rooted in ignorance.





There is color. There are also folders, which apple added just recently. The OS was way ahead of its time, and Apple is just catching up in certain important respects.

"Certain important respects" being "whatever irrelevant similarities I can pull out of my ass to play to the tiresome Apple never innovates game."

After all, painters had put pigment to canvas and framed it long before that pompous fool da Vinci thought of doing it, so I LOL at the Last Supper and it's so called "uniqueness."

Also: every single thing ever made by man that has some attribute in common with something previous. I guess the discovery of how to make a fire might count as "inventive", except they obviously copied it from nature.
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post #34 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

As recent as 25 years ago.


lovely idea. good thing they took a look over a PARC and saw the ALTO.
post #35 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not at all.

Nokia sued for patents that by all reports they refused to license under the fair and nondiscriminatory terms that they are obligated to offer. That's why Apple refused to license them.

Nokia's report essentially confirms that. If they were using 'fair and nondiscriminatory' terms, as required by their membership in the cell phone consortium, there would be no need for lengthy negotiations. Simply "these are the terms that everybody in the industry receives."

They were clearly trying to extract extra money from Apple and Apple exercised their rights to decline to pay illegally requested license fees.

Unless I'm completely off base, patent holders are under zero obligation to license their patents to competitors, nor are they legally required to do so in a non-discriminatory way. A patent is a government-approved form of monopoly for a limited time period.

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post #36 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

lovely idea. good thing they took a look over a PARC and saw the ALTO.

Ooh, you mean the Alto that didn't have drop down menus, drag and drop, double clicking, one to one icon to file mapping, Finder, dynamic window refresh, check-box selectable items, or a Trash Can and never saw the light of day as a commercial product outside of a $17,000 word processing station? Because they couldn't figure out a way to make all that neat GUI stuff happen within constrained hardware?

Mentioning Alto is a sure sign of reflexive, ignorance based Apple slapping.
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post #37 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

Why WI?

Probably due to a lack of back log?
post #38 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

lovely idea. good thing they took a look over a PARC and saw the ALTO.

And PARC got $125 Million in stock sales for that look and license.
post #39 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

apple engineers didn't make touch technology. apple aquired the company and the engineers. so what is your point regarding palm os?
oh right, you are under the delusion that apple builds and invents/ codes everything in house and has never stolen/borrowed/used any idea/software/hardware that originated outside of infinite loop.

Apple acquired the IP, Engineers and all assets, just like Apple didn't developer NeXTSTep, but acquired all the IP, assets and Engineering talent.

That's how it works.
post #40 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Unless I'm completely off base, patent holders are under zero obligation to license their patents to competitors, nor are they legally required to do so in a non-discriminatory way. A patent is a government-approved form of monopoly for a limited time period.

Patent holders are not obligated to license their technologies, that part is correct.

HOWEVER, a number of years ago when the lawsuits in the cell phone business got out of hand, all the major cell phone manufacturers got together and formed a group where each member of the group (including Nokia and Motorola) agreed to license all of their cell phone technologies to all comers for reasonable and nondiscriminatory rates.

By refusing to license to Apple at the same rates, Nokia is in violation of the agreement.
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