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Apple's iPhone tops US smartphone shipments, but Android devices take 44% - Page 3

post #81 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Android's only hope of dominance is people "judging it by it's cover." It's only when you actually have one in your hand that you can see how clunky and poorly designed it is compared to an iPhone or iOS software. It's only when you look closely that you see the lack of smoothness and sense in the UI, it's only when you start to use it in depth that the wonky settings and general "Linuxy" aspects of it start to bite you in the bum.

I completely disagree. While it's no as polished as iOS, I don't believe it to be anywhere near as "clunky" and "poorly designed" as you say. If you don't like the way the home screen looks (I'll give you that a lot of OEM UIs are weird), you can fix that by downloading one of the many Home replacement apps from the Market (LauncherPro and ADW.Launcher being the leading two favorites).

Those take up the majority of how you interact with an Android phone, as you can customize them to look however you want. The rest of the phone is the settings menus, the notification slider, and the App Drawer that holds all the apps you don't place on your main screen. In a way, this lets you pick the purpose and sense of the UI.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #82 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


inability to keep up with huge demand on the iPhone side has led to the Android lead.


Careful there. You are coming close to saying that failed execution has cost Apple their lead. You need to think a couple of steps ahead if you want to advance these sorts of propositions.

And besides, I have seen no evidence whatsoever that any manufacturing problems have limited iPhone sales significantly.
post #83 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

No problem. Native apps on Android would be more relevant to me, I don't have time to do things like root it and so on. On iPhone and iPad I just jailbreak to get display out capability (full mirroring video out from the iPhone 4 and iPad using the Apple iPad Dock to VGA cable using the DisplayOut software through Cydia)

By "native" I mean apps you can get directly from the Market. As opposed to apps that start out as betas only available from the developer's website.

In a way, this is also another part of what makes Android interesting. You can decide to try out these betas before their put into the Market. A good deal of Android developers go this route to get feedback so when it does hit the Market, it will have a good deal of bugs worked out, as well as an installed group of people who've used the app and offered improvement suggestions/features along the way and would be willing to pay for the app.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #84 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I'm wondering how many Android phones have actually been sold for full price, instead of including the ones that you get for free. Verizon and other carriers were doing a Buy One and Get One Free program on many of their Android models. You'll see that the figures show how many were activated. The free phones are included in that total. The iPhone has never been part of a BOGO promotion.
It will be interesting to see how well iPhones sell once they are on more than one carrier in the U.S. market.

NO THEY DON'T... This is the same silly post fanboys run to every week. The phones are subsidized and the manufacture gets their money. If AT&T (or any other carrier) wishes, they too could "give away" the iPhone which makes no difference to Apple.
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post #85 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

For the first time in a long time I'm not yet certain I'll be getting an Apple product. The iPhone has a lot going for them, but I gotta say some of the Androids look pretty nice too.

Can I use an Android phone with my Mac?

You're the right customer for an Android - you're a geek. That wasn't an insult.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #86 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

I have my doubts. There's a lot that people may not like, and it is not at all finished yet. It is missing basic stuff like multitasking.

I mean two years out. And I don't mean more overall, I mean more per quarter by then. 2 years after release Microsoft will begin to show signs of moving past Google in the mobile phone department.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #87 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

I don't think that makes any sense.

RIM, for example, has many different phones, but they do not dominate.

There are scads of different Symbian smartphones, but they do not dominate.

I see no correlation between the variety of handsets on an OS and the dominance of the OS. Indeed, iOS once dominated despite its lack of hardware variety.

Instead, I think that Android's dominance of the smartphone market is for other reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that most people like it better than the other OS choices.

Comparisons to RIM are appropos in this case because RIM operates an ecosystem with their own hardware/handsets - they do not release Blackberry OS to all the handset makers, and therefore is comparable to iOS, but not Android. There are sixteen or so active BB handsets, out of the twenty or so handsets total, with another subset of other handsets not made by RIM who can run the BB email-client, but not the OS.

There are a total of 162 handsets for Nokia that actually run the Symbian OS as a "smartphone" depending on the interface and version of Symbian. SO let's be generous and include all of the Sony/Eriksson, Siemens, Samsung, Panasonic, Motorola, LG, DoMoCo, Benq and Arima handsets with the Nokia ones. So this actually makes Symbian more like Android or WinMo than iOS.

But this begs the question. AT NO TIME DID THE IPHONE DOMINATE ANY MARKET! Look carefully. US market - RIM held that. Worldwide - Nokia has that. So what are we comparing then?

If it is the OS IN USE (not sale per time period) on a given handset, Nokia clearly owns dominance in the world with Symbian. If the US market alone, then RIM still holds that, based on reports used by GigaOm by Gartner. Notably, Symbian is an also-ran in the US currently, but commands world-wide. In fact world-wide It is, in descending order, Symbian, RIM, iPhone*, WinMo, Linux and Android.

*does not include iOS running on any other Apple device.

One of the huge issue with the numbers being reported is the failure to account for the difference between device manufacturer, exclusive versus licensed eocsystems, and comparing OS numbers to devices numbers. Those are comparison mistakes that in some cases are deliberate in order to cast one supplier against another in the most favorable light. If you reference installed base which is the only valid measure of market penetration, and device against device, you get a much clearer picture and can actually speak fact to opinion.
post #88 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Gads... I hope that bloody at&t exclusive ends soon. Apple's desire for a secure return with at&t has ceded so much ground to Android, it's like the desktop wars all over again with Android playing the part of Windows. Fulfill the pent-up demand for the iPhone, Apple!

I remember when the iPhone first came out and we found out there was a 5-year exclusive agreement with ATT. We all thought that was nuts! Not that there was an exclusive agreement, but that it was 5 years! That's eons in the cell phone game, and Apple really should have known that that was too long to be tied to a single carrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Android may be doing well now, but I don't think it has legs. That platform is going to suffer from fragmentation...

Has anyone ever attempted to quantify the effect of fragmentation? If Android has about twice the sales as the iPhone, but it's "fragmented" what is the net effect? Yes, there are differences between the various Android platforms. But there are also similarities. The differences hold them back (usabilty, dev support, marketing, etc), but the shear volume of similar devices gives them momentum and inertia.

If Android has twice the marketshare, but fragmentation makes them 1/3 less "effective" (for lack of a better term), then they are still leading the pack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post

I believe that people who buy Android phones instead of iPhones overwhelmingly do so for only two reasons:
1. In the USA, they want to use Verizon instead of AT&T
2. They can't afford an iPhone and, generally speaking, have a very small amount of disposable income.

3. They don't like the iPhone form factor.

Apple should try to find ways to diversify the iPhone offering. Even if that has an impact on the developers due to the dreaded fragmentation factor, if they can provide a single development environment to target multiple iOS devices, that's still going to be easier than developers targeting the vast array of Android devcies, right?

I still think an iPhone nano (think the current nano as a flip-phone) would get folks into the Apple camp. Get them using iTunes to manage their phone to sync music, contacts, events (think about it, EVERY cell phone has these functions, and yet nobody uses them because it's either disabled by the carrier or too complicated to figure out). Then when it's time for them to upgrade to a smart phone with applications and web browsing, an iOS device is the logical choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

It's radically different from the desktop wars. Apple never had the kind of marketshare with the Mac that it has with the iPhone, and Apple never had the kind of financial strength that it has now. Plus, Android is a hollow imitator of the Windows business model. Google is depending on (and ceding power to) their OEM partners much more heavily than MS ever did, which is going to lead to fragmentation and degradation of the Android brand.

I believe in the early years of the Mac Apple had 20+% market share. That was when most PCs were still running DOS and Windows was still working out its kinks. And personal computers were mainly used in offices and schools.

From that viewpoint, it's very similar to today's smartphone market. A few years ago smartphone were mostly only for business folks. Apple comes along and makes them easier to use, gains quick market share. It will take time for Android to work out the kinds, but like MS & Windows, they may eventually get it sorted out enough that people choose it over Apple's limited and expensive options.
post #89 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

Comparisons to RIM are appropo in this case.

apropos?
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #90 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

- iPhone is and has been since it's debut, the most popular smartphone in decades, possibly ever.

How many decades have smartphones been available? Somehow I missed that part of computing history...

Anyway this forum is exactly the same discussion people had 20-30 years ago in Apple vs PC. That's all I have to say on the matter.
post #91 of 232
I want to see bank account statements.

I doubt shareholders smile when they see 100% market penetration and $0 gross profits.
post #92 of 232
The iPhone is likely coming to Verizon soon, so Appleā€™s share of smartphones will continue to climb. On the other hand, Android will have its share taken away by Windows Phone 7, HPalm, etc.
post #93 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Android's only hope of dominance is people "judging it by it's cover." It's only when you actually have one in your hand that you can see how clunky and poorly designed it is compared to an iPhone or iOS software. It's only when you look closely that you see the lack of smoothness and sense in the UI, it's only when you start to use it in depth that the wonky settings and general "Linuxy" aspects of it start to bite you in the bum.

Sorry there Professor, as I mentioned many times before, using a bunch of Fanyboy terms like "clunky" won't work in 2010. Apple is playing in the big leagues now, trying to sell a product to the masses, not a small group of mind dead drones.

Android phones are no more "clunky" than your iPhone is "elegant"... Android is going to take over the smartphone market and the developers will follow...

Jobs obviously learned nothing in 1984.
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post #94 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

Vote for Steve as Fortunes's 2010 businessperson of the year!




http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...oll/index.html

Don't worry. They'll give it to him anyway.

Guarantees good newsstand sales.
post #95 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I believe in the early years of the Mac Apple had 20+% market share.

Personal Computer Market Share 1975-2005

http://jeremyreimer.com/postman/node/329

(link is a source for Wiki's Apple Inc. page, so it should have some credibility)
post #96 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

If this trend continues, it is likely that many devs will switch from iOS to Android. It seems that Android will swamp iOS soon.

This is the big question, since these are really "App Phones". Right now it's a lot harder to actually make money selling into the Android market than it is on the iOS market. Despite Android having higher market share, they have a much, much lower share of the money developers are making. The delta isn't even close; last I checked it's over a billion dolalrs more that have gone to iOS developers.

Right now things are still developed for iPhone and ported to Android, and that doesn't seem to be changing at the moment despite the market share. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds over the next couple years.
post #97 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I want to see bank account statements.

I doubt shareholders smile when they see 100% market penetration and $0 gross profits.

Yeah, that's exactly what I wonder too when I buy ANY product, .. How much does the manufacture make?

I'm going out shopping for a new boat and kitchen cabinets. Since I now know what is really important, can you advise me what companies that manufacture boats and cabinets make the most money?
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post #98 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Android's global market share is still in single digits outside the US. In fact, with the exception of China at 13%, its share is only 1 or 2% in every other country. (China suffers from the same problem as the US market in only having one carrier with the phone. And even then it has been officially sold for only about a year at that.)

Android continues to do well in the US ONLY because of the AT&T exclusive deal, and because the other carriers are giving Android devices away for free! (Just as they are with RIM devices.) The problem in the US is that the commodity company (the carriers), are giving away the added value product (smartphones) for free thus driving the entire market to commodity status, while Apple continues to sweep up the majority of the profit.


I am wondering where you are getting your data from. 1-2% is probably about right in most poorer countries where Symbian tends to dominate, but in most wealthy nations I believe the percentage is much higher. That said, the US is one of the only countries where Android is actually beating the iPhone in sales. Once it is available on more networks it will have a good chance of being able to beat out Android in terms of shipments.
post #99 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

The iPhone is likely coming to Verizon soon, so Apples share of smartphones will continue to climb. On the other hand, Android will have its share taken away by Windows Phone 7, HPalm, etc.

Palm have a good OS, but don't have good hardware or a large platform. Apple should have bought up Palm, but they were too expensive.
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post #100 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

apropos?


corrected
post #101 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Number 2 makes no sense to me in that the phones are all identically priced where I live. It's roughly 200 bucks for a smartphone from all the carriers in my area whether you pick Android or iPhone.

It's not simply about cost at point of purchase, but cost after purchase.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/05/distimo-june-2010/
post #102 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Yeah, that's exactly what I wonder too when I buy ANY product, .. How much does the manufacture make?

I'm going out shopping for a new boat and kitchen cabinets. Since I now know what is really important, can you advise me what companies that manufacture boats and cabinets make the most money?

Then it shouldn't matter which company has more or less marketshare over a particular aspect of a complete product, thereby any post over the OS marketshare pointless.
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post #103 of 232
I posted the following charts from Asymco (one of the best AAPL analysis sites on the net) on another thread about Apple becoming the number 4 handset (not just smartphones) vendor in the world but I'll post them here again. This whole iOS vs. Android "war" needs to be viewed from a wider perspective than just number of units shipped. It may seem like all these Android phone makers are in an alliance to take on Apple, but the truth is that they're beating up on each other to a pulp with much lower margins than Apple and giving away phones to merely gain units market share. It's no wonder Google uses the term "activation" instead of units actually sold.

UNIT



SALES



PROFITS (Earnings Before Interest and Taxes)



There's another interesting article from Asymco titled 'Android's Pursuit of the Biggest Losers' that needs to be read to gain the bigger perspective on all of this.

http://www.asymco.com/2010/08/17/and...iggest-losers/

In the last quarter, let's consider that Motorola sold 9.1 million phones (3.8 million smartphones) and turned a paltry profit of $3 million. Sure, Motorola apparently has other internal problems because we can safely assume that the likes of Samsung and HTC are making more per smartphone than Motorola, but this still brings up the point that it's a race to the bottom for the Android handset makers. In reality, the Android phone makers are competing more with each other than they are with the iPhone. One more Droid sold means one less Evo or Captivate and vice versa as well as one less iPhone or a Symbian phone or a RIM.

There's a good reason why Nokia won't adopt the Android, why Samsung is also adopting the WP7 and developing their own OS/platform called Bada, and why HP also refused to take on Android and acquire Palm's webOS. These giants looked at Android long-term and decided that Android is a losing proposition - revenue-wise and profit-wise. It also seems LG, the world's third largest handset maker, has also decided to focus on WP7 rather than Android. Samsung and HTC are also offering WP7 phones, further scattering their development, manufacturing, and marketing resources and pulling away their focus from Android.

On top of this, these upper tier phone vendors have to look over their shoulders and cast their wary eyes on the coming flood of super cheap Android phones from a horde of smaller phone makers in China, India and other developing nations. With dozens, perhaps hundreds, of phone makers all offering various versions of Android with their own UI's and features, the fragmentation and the ensuing chaos won't be a pretty sight. Let's remember these "other" phone makers that we've never heard of are already producing well over 300 million phones per year.

We all know that all cellphones will eventually become smartphones in the years ahead. Well, since Android is free, you can expect every phone maker in the third world to adopt it as well. Without a doubt, Android will become the de facto standard third world phone unless Nokia can somehow stem the tide. But that seems rather unlikely. The governments in China and India will give their local phone manufacturers favorable terms so they can dominate the local markets. The affluent and the growing middle class in these countries will go for the brand and differentiated products and ecosystem. Yes, they'll want Apple and will gladly pay a lot more for one.

And the likes of HP, Samsung, LG, RIM, and Nokia want to be where Apple is at, not where things are going with Android. They look at Android and see that it benefits no one except Google in a roundabout way - more ad hits to generate Google's ad revenues. They have no desire to compete with the coming flood of cheap Android phones from these no-name phone makers based in the third world. After all, it's about making money, not a charity.
post #104 of 232
...what happens when Windows 7 mobile eats into Android's market share leaving Apple's untouched, and Apple launches with multiple carriers in the US.

I think OHA will be an interesting thing to watch, from the perspective of what competition will do to price, what price will do to quality, and what quality will do to churn.

Meanwhile, Apple can continue to differentiate, command a premium, and add new carriers when they want.
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post #105 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

.

RIM, for example, has many different phones, but they do not dominate.

RIM has about a dozen different models, not the 60+ that Android offers.

Quote:
There are scads of different Symbian smartphones, but they do not dominate.

Not in the US ! And elsewhere Symbian does still dominate.

Quote:
I see no correlation between the variety of handsets on an OS and the dominance of the OS.

Honestly, how much market share do you think Android would have if there were only 6 instead of 60 different models?

Quote:
Indeed, iOS once dominated despite its lack of hardware variety.

iOS has never dominated (or been number 1) in any market.



Quote:
Android's dominance of the smartphone market is for other reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that most people like it better than the other OS choices.

Well according to the OP, "most people" are actually choosing something else.

Just how much can you get wrong in one short post?
post #106 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post

I believe that people who buy Android phones instead of iPhones overwhelmingly do so for only two reasons:
1. In the USA, they want to use Verizon instead of AT&T
2. They can't afford an iPhone and, generally speaking, have a very small amount of disposable income.

I think you were right about #1 LAST year, but not this year. Many, if not most, people on Verizon don't even care about iPHone anymore. Android does so much more than any iteration of iPhone. And, if you read the article, Android is growing as fast as hell on carriers worldwide where the iPhone is also offered. The U.S. is now only 1 of 2 remaining countries worldwide that has an exclusive agreement that shuts out other carriers. Android is clobbering iPhone there.

I say it's all good because it's forcing Apple to create even better iPhones and, in turn, this forces the Android makers to make even better phones. It's a win-win for the consumer.

And, as for #2, high-end Android devices run as high as $250, so it's not about being able to afford or not afford an iPhone.
post #107 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Well according to the OP, "most people" are actually choosing something else.

Actually, the OP states that the iPhone is the most popular phone, since there's really only 1 "iPhone" (different models, though). And Android as an OS is being picked more. All this really means is that there's a greater variety of smartphones running the Android OS than the iPhone.
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post #108 of 232
Sixty different Android models? Surely, you jest. There are currently 26 models in the U.S., which offers the most of any country. Most countries offer only a few. And, couple that argument with the fact that the iPhone comes in many different models as well: iPHone, iPHone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, plus all the different sizes, 8gb, 16gb, etc. etc.
post #109 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

I posted the following charts from Asymco (one of the best AAPL analysis sites on the net) on another thread about Apple becoming the number 4 handset (not just smartphones) vendor in the world but I'll post them here again. This whole iOS vs. Android "war" needs to be viewed from a wider perspective than just number of units shipped. It may seem like all these Android phone makers are in an alliance to take on Apple, but the truth is that they're beating up on each other to a pulp with much lower margins than Apple and giving away phones to merely gain units market share. It's no wonder Google uses the term "activation" instead of units actually sold.

UNIT



SALES



PROFITS (Earnings Before Interest and Taxes)



There's another interesting article from Asymco titled 'Android's Pursuit of the Biggest Losers' that needs to be read to gain the bigger perspective on all of this.

http://www.asymco.com/2010/08/17/and...iggest-losers/

In the last quarter, let's consider that Motorola sold 9.1 million phones (3.8 million smartphones) and turned a paltry profit of $3 million. Sure, Motorola apparently has other internal problems because we can safely assume that the likes of Samsung and HTC are making more per smartphone than Motorola, but this still brings up the point that it's a race to the bottom for the Android handset makers. In reality, the Android phone makers are competing more with each other than they are with the iPhone. One more Droid sold means one less Evo or Captivate and vice versa as well as one less iPhone or a Symbian phone or a RIM.

There's a good reason why Nokia won't adopt the Android, why Samsung is also adopting the WP7 and developing their own OS/platform called Bada, and why HP also refused to take on Android and acquire Palm's webOS. These giants looked at Android long-term and decided that Android is a losing proposition - revenue-wise and profit-wise. It also seems LG, the world's third largest handset maker, has also decided to focus on WP7 rather than Android. Samsung and HTC are also offering WP7 phones, further scattering their development, manufacturing, and marketing resources and pulling away their focus from Android.

On top of this, these upper tier phone vendors have to look over their shoulders and cast their wary eyes on the coming flood of super cheap Android phones from a horde of smaller phone makers in China, India and other developing nations. With dozens, perhaps hundreds, of phone makers all offering various versions of Android with their own UI's and features, the fragmentation and the ensuing chaos won't be a pretty sight. Let's remember these "other" phone makers that we've never heard of are already producing well over 300 million phones per year.

We all know that all cellphones will eventually become smartphones in the years ahead. Well, since Android is free, you can expect every phone maker in the third world to adopt it as well. Without a doubt, Android will become the de facto standard third world phone unless Nokia can somehow stem the tide. But that seems rather unlikely. The governments in China and India will give their local phone manufacturers favorable terms so they can dominate the local markets. The affluent and the growing middle class in these countries will go for the brand and differentiated products and ecosystem. Yes, they'll want Apple and will gladly pay a lot more for one.

And the likes of HP, Samsung, LG, RIM, and Nokia want to be where Apple is at, not where things are going with Android. They look at Android and see that it benefits no one except Google in a roundabout way - more ad hits to generate Google's ad revenues. They have no desire to compete with the coming flood of cheap Android phones from these no-name phone makers based in the third world. After all, it's about making money, not a charity.

You're missing the big point here: Android is cutting into Apple's profits, or, at the very least, it will be. Free, reduced, or at full price, Android is selling and selling very well. What Apple thought was a market it had and was going to dominate for many years to come has now been slowed to a disheartening rate for Apple's taste. Why else would Jobs blast Android as much as he has? He's worried!
post #110 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Good. Android won. I hope the trolls will leave this site now. We can go back to actually useful discussions. Also, Apple won't have to take huge risks to be the "biggest" in smartphone land, let Android be the crappy Windows of smart phones. And good bl**dy luck to all the developers actually trying to make useful apps for Android, let alone make money from it.

Here here!!
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post #111 of 232
I"m truly amazed at the comments in these forums whenever an article like this comes out. The Jobs loyalists just can't seem to realize that this is good news for everyone. Jobs is feeling the pressure to build better devices. He can't just sit back on his laurels. The competition is too fierce.

Just accept the fact that Android is outselling the iPhone and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future BUT that this will relegate the iPhone not to "lesser" status but to a superior alternative.

Has anyone on here actually sat down and compared devices, such as:
Droid X to iP4
Incredible to iP4
Epic 4G to iP4

Well, I have, and those 3 Android devices, I'm sorry to say, blow the iP4 out of the water. Yes, the iP4 is GORGEOUS and the UI is simply beautiful, etc. But you get more out of the other devices by far--more power, more customization, more options, more more more.

Wait for the next iPhone to come out next year--it will set the bar for the next round of Android devices to jump over.
post #112 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

You're missing the big point here: Android is cutting into Apple's profits, or, at the very least, it will be. Free, reduced, or at full price, Android is selling and selling very well. What Apple thought was a market it had and was going to dominate for many years to come has now been slowed to a disheartening rate for Apple's taste. Why else would Jobs blast Android as much as he has? He's worried!

Cutting into Apple's profits when iPhone sales grew 91% year-over-year while the profits grew 70% year-over-year to $4.3 billion last quarter? Please name one phone vendor that is even close to how Apple is doing. Apple still can't keep up with the demand and they've only now just released the iPhone 4 in China and many other countries around the world while they tried to keep up with the demand in the US. And the Verizon iPhone will come eventually. Jobs isn't worried. He's just having fun trash-talking the competition that trash-talks Apple.

I'd say all the Android trolls (and I'm not saying you're one of them) are the desperate worried ones to come over to Apple-related sites (many others besides this one) and spend their "valuable" time and effort trashing Apple and the iPhone.
post #113 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I will say if you have a Mac already, don't bother with Android. Feel free to try it out, but when you do get an iPhone, you will probably regret the time spent with Android. Just my prediction. Admittedly I haven't spent more than five minutes each with several Android phones and tablets over the past year, but, there's nothing compelling in it beyond the first few seconds of Wow! Shiny!

So you readily admit that your opinion is not credible because you only spent 5 minutes with several Android devices?

I am a Mac owner. And I have a Nexus One. Here's why I went Android.

1) Usability. I want widgets. I don't want to have open a dozen apps to get information.

2) Fully integrated with Google's services. GMail, Maps, Search, Contacts, Calendar. A cloud solution that I don't have to pay for.

3) Navigation. Given that I don't really go off-roading too much, Google Maps Nav does the job, does it well, for the right price: free. How much would I be paying Tom Tom every year on the iPhone?

4) iTunes. I just don't want to have to use it. I don't want to have to plug in my phone at all. I like iTunes to listen to music on my Mac. But I don't want to have to plug in and use that to manage my phone. The only times I plug in now is to transfer content. And even that can be done by Bluetooth most often. I like the freedom. I don't even travel with a laptop anymore. Just the phone.

All that's not to argue that Android is perfect, or that it's better or worse than the iPhone. But how about throwing out an educated opinion acknowleding that Android might be a good solution for some and not some self-admittedly ignorant tripe suggesting that every Mac user is better off with an iPhone?

In my extended family, there's 5 Mac users. Out of those 5, 2 are iPhone users (one of whom is waiting to go WP7), one Blackberry user, one Symbian user and me. And in each of those cases, I'd argue the person got the device that best suited their needs, budget, etc.

To each their own.
post #114 of 232
"The Age of Windows is over. The Time of Android has come."

A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #115 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I'd be willing to predict that within 2 years in the market Microsoft will have a bigger market-share than Google in the Smartphone business.

Rubbish!

As of today.
Windows Phone 7: 0% and 0%
Google Android : 43% and 25% (US and Worldwide)

However well Microsoft performs in mobile, and whatever problems might befall Android that lead is going to take more than a couple of years to disappear.
post #116 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Then it shouldn't matter which company has more or less marketshare over a particular aspect of a complete product, thereby any post over the OS marketshare pointless.

No, marketshare matters because developers are going to go where they can get the most bang for their buck.. Don't believe me??? For years I've had to use software on my Mac that's "just like", or "better than", or "similar to"...

I want to run the most popular software in the world on my Mac that exists for the PC (and please, don't bring up "dual booting or parallels") not a substitute .... Fact is the Mac has about 5% of the world market in PC's. Because of that FACT, the same software isn't available, and I don't blame the developers 1 bit.

The same thing will happen with iOS and Android. Fanboys will come to this and other Mac forums and scream a bunch of group-speak fanboy terms like "clunky", "crappy", "ugly", and "fragmented" while the rest of the world moves on and they're running whatever bit of software is available on their "elegant", "gorgeous", "sexy" and "delicious" iOS device...
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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post #117 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

...what happens when Windows 7 mobile eats into Android's market share leaving Apple's untouched, and Apple launches with multiple carriers in the US.

I think OHA will be an interesting thing to watch, from the perspective of what competition will do to price, what price will do to quality, and what quality will do to churn.

Meanwhile, Apple can continue to differentiate, command a premium, and add new carriers when they want.

I wonder how you can be so sure that WP7 won't hurt the iPhone. To start with, in the USA, WP7 isn't even launching on the biggest Android pusher: Verizon.

Next, I would argue that WP7 has taken the iPhone's biggest selling point (usability) to it's ultimate extreme. Nice big buttons on a nice big homescreen that do exactly what the picture says they'll do. I can see that kind of device being very popular...particularly with older folks. It's exactly the phone I'd buy my 60 year old parents. And that comes on top of solid brand recognition. Who doesn't know Windows or Outlook or Word or Excel? And heck, many of those older folks still use Hotmail.

I am not saying that WP7 will necessarily eat into the iPhone. But I fail to see how the iPhone can be written off as automatically immune to the impact of the Windows Phone 7 launch while everybody else is doomed to defeat the hands of Microsoft's latest creation. That's presumptuous.
post #118 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Sorry there Professor, as I mentioned many times before, using a bunch of Fanyboy terms like "clunky" won't work in 2010. Apple is playing in the big leagues now, trying to sell a product to the masses, not a small group of mind dead drones.

Android phones are no more "clunky" than your iPhone is "elegant"... Android is going to take over the smartphone market and the developers will follow...

Jobs obviously learned nothing in 1984.

"Android phones" is a smoke screen and misnomer. There was only ONE "Android phone" and that was the Nexus One. There are currently many phones running variants of the Android OS, but they are categorically NOT "Android phones". This includes the routinely and deliberately ignored mass of android OS versions 1.5 and 1.6, which is still the vast majority of the so-called "android phone" marketshare. Most of the champions of Android OS don't want detractors looking at that simple fact, and instead point sales increase percentages, sales increase percentages in the US particularly, and ignore the fact that Android on one handset can be radically different than Android on another handset.

But this is OK. Microsoft is moving in to reclaim lost territory on Google, Google doesn't have a coherent strategy for supporting Android, just keep moving forward and hope no one notices the "bodies" piling up behind. Microsoft recognizes this. They have begun the reclamation by either suing, or threatening to sue the handset makers for touch interface IP violations and requiring either capitulation or licensing. Which immediate moves Android from "free" for the handset makers to potential liability. Then Microsoft can cut a nice deal with them for producing WinP7 devices and begin eroding Android. All the while misdirecting everyone with "Apple is our competition" statements. Microsoft wants to cut off Android in the consumer marketplace, and RIM/BB in the corporate marketplace.
EDIT: notice also that Microsoft hasn't turned around and sued Apple for touch interface IP issues...

Google's response to this will be EOL Android development as an active strategy and supplant it with ChromeOS, for handheld devices. Thus completely switching tracks and staving off any direct impact to their mobile ad business by competition. It becomes initially additive, where they have both - growing CHromeOS and letting Android ride it out and then off into the sunset.
post #119 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Android continues to do well in the US ONLY because of the AT&T exclusive deal, and because the other carriers are giving Android devices away for free! (Just as they are with RIM devices.) The problem in the US is that the commodity company (the carriers), are giving away the added value product (smartphones) for free thus driving the entire market to commodity status, while Apple continues to sweep up the majority of the profit.

More bloody rubbish!

I wish you guys would stop with all the knee jerk reactions. Read the article and the linked Canalys press release and stop being such a fanboy. (From a part-time fanboy.. but facts is facts)
post #120 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What is the ASP of a typical Android handset?

Don't know but...

In Nokia's recent quarter they said their asp for 'smart phones' was $ 190.00.
Smart and dumb phones was $ 90.00
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