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Android political rights

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
I think the central political issue of the 21st century will be that of android politcal rights-at some point robots will be capable of working independently,will they be able to keep their own money,have credit cards,speculate on the stock market? I was talking to someone tonight who is reasonably intelligent and he asked me what do you think the next trend in computers will be,and I told him that the next big development wil be autonomous robots and he said that he wouldn't have to worry that wouldn't happen for another 100 years or so,I told him no,ten years,then he got a frightened look on his face and said,what purpose will it serve society to build these robots?,and I said it will fill no purpose,the robots will be capable of providing their own purpose,and it may be contrary to our (humans') best interest.It is only a matter of time,once a robot is capable of building and programming another robot that is more intelligent than itself a certain barrier will crossed that makes it possible for robots to eventually take over the world.
post #2 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>I think the central political issue of the 21st century will be that of android politcal rights-at some point robots will be capable of working independently,will they be able to keep their own money,have credit cards,speculate on the stock market? I was talking to someone tonight who is reasonably intelligent and he asked me what do you think the next trend in computers will be,and I told him that the next big development wil be autonomous robots and he said that he wouldn't have to worry that wouldn't happen for another 100 years or so,I told him no,ten years,then he got a frightened look on his face and said,what purpose will it serve society to build these robots?,and I said it will fill no purpose,the robots will be capable of providing their own purpose,and it may be contrary to our (humans') best interest.It is only a matter of time,once a robot is capable of building and programming another robot that is more intelligent than itself a certain barrier will crossed that makes it possible for robots to eventually take over the world.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It remember me the Speelbierg moovie : AI
But for the moment we are very far from this description. It's not for the first part of the 21 century.
post #3 of 41
Whoa people, slow down. :eek: Take it one step at a time. First, you build the sentient android, then I will help organize a campaign against the world domination of robots.
horrid misuse of cool technology
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post #4 of 41
There's a clip of Asimo in action on news.com. It's both cute and frightening at the same time!
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post #5 of 41
Asimo...is that the robot made by Honda (I think) that I see advertised in various magazines from time to time? As for ridiculous movies, I though both Ai and Bicentennial Man were pretty lousy as stories, and pretty implausible in terms of being realistic anytime soon (read: the next 50 years). Since I will likely be dead in 50 years, I will leave this debate to be discovered in the "Early 21st Century Archives", by future generations of AppleInsider "gurus".

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post #6 of 41
Thread Starter 
No,not 50 years,10 years.C3P0-type droids will be around in 10 years.AI is a lot more advanced than the general public is aware of,even a lot of people in the tech world.Will these droids be sentient? Probably not- but they don't need to be.
post #7 of 41
Hey, just as long as they don't act annoying or fruity as Threepio, bring 'em on...
post #8 of 41
All I have to say on the matter is that I hope MicroSoft is not responsible for the software that makes these things run.
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will win it by a better deed.
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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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post #9 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>No,not 50 years,10 years.C3P0-type droids will be around in 10 years.AI is a lot more advanced than the general public is aware of,even a lot of people in the tech world.Will these droids be sentient? Probably not- but they don't need to be.</strong><hr></blockquote>No way 10 years. Who knows what will happen in 50 years, but I just don't see it happening. I did graduate work in this area (modeling human cognitive processes) and we're not even close to scratching the surface of creating general human-like cognitive processes - language, perception, movement, on and on.

I suppose it depends on your standards - there are internet natural language processing demos that you can talk to, but they're pretty poor compared to Data or 3PO. Or you could create a robot and have it beat the pants off of 99.9% of people. But general human characteristics like 3P0? Nuh-uh.

Can you provide some evidence to back up your idea that we're a lot farther along than most people think?
post #10 of 41
Let me be the first to invoke Isaac Asimov's Laws of Robotics:

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Therefore robots will not take over the world. Unless the laws are programmed in by MS programmers, in which case we're all screwed.

p.s. I could also bring up Blade Runner but I'm heading out the door. Ciao.

[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</p>
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post #11 of 41
post #12 of 41
As usual the devil is in the details. Does the First Law of Robotics mean that a robot will try to keep me from smoking, force me to use a condom, exercise more often, or monitor my diet for too much fat. I could see how an overly protective robot could get out of hand.
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post #13 of 41
[quote]... a robot will try to keep me from smoking, force me to use a condom, exercise more often, or monitor my diet for too much fat. I could see how an overly protective robot could get out of hand.<hr></blockquote>

Holy shit, I think my wife is a robot.

[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
post #14 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>As usual the devil is in the details. Does the First Law of Robotics mean that a robot will try to keep me from smoking, force me to use a condom, exercise more often, or monitor my diet for too much fat. I could see how an overly protective robot could get out of hand.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes definitively : you should read Asimov. But you can explain to the robot that avoiding pleasures let you to depression which is bad for you health.
BTW you don't need to use a condom with a robot
post #15 of 41
BTW you don't need to use a condom with a robot [/QB][/QUOTE]

I'd be afraid of getting an electrical shock otherwise.
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post #16 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>BTW you don't need to use a condom with a robot </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd be afraid of getting an electrical shock otherwise. [/QB]

That's make sens <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #17 of 41
First hurdle for robots:
Physical abilities - must move across room, up stairs, carry 200 pounds, lift and move an egg, and handle simple tools, all AS FAST AS A HUMAN!
The software for such a thing will be comparatively easy to write, as there are dozens of groups working on that very idea.

First job for robot = helping old RICH people.

Seconed job = ROBO - PROSTITUTE!

Would YOU give a handmaid or a prostitute a vote? Certainly. We give every retard the right to vote in America. Everyone who's lived for 18 years can vote for our President. Except felons.

Now, as for INTELLECTUAL robots... that's another matter.
post #18 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>BTW you don't need to use a condom with a robot </strong><hr></blockquote>

Shed, if they could get me a robot that looks like the chick from Cherie2000 (timeless classic!) I would gladly use what ever she wants me to.

An Alicia Silverstone droid would be even better though

You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #19 of 41
Thread Starter 
Here is an interesting link,I think a ten year timeframe is very realistic:

<a href="http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54113,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54113,00.html</a>
post #20 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>Here is an interesting link,I think a ten year timeframe is very realistic:

<a href="http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54113,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54113,00.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/07/26/socially.skilled.robot.ap/index.html" target="_blank">Here's CNN's report.</a> With photos...I think it'll be a little more than 10 years...
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post #21 of 41
We should never let it come to that. Zero Andriod rights. It would be the height of stupidity.
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post #22 of 41
Check out Star Trek Next Generation's- "The Measure of a Man"- season 2 if you haven't already.
post #23 of 41
Check out Star Trek Next Generation's- "The Measure of a Man"- season 2 if you haven't already.
post #24 of 41
Sorry about the repost- damn back button. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #25 of 41
Why? Who told you that? What did you talk about? What was the response? What was the response? I'll come back to that later. I would do a search for it. What did you mean by it? That is only what you think. fill no purpose the robots will be capable of providing their own purpose and it may be contrary to our humans best interest is a matter of time once a robot is capable of building and programming another robot that is more intelligent than itself a certain barrier will crossed that makes it possible for robots to eventually take over the worldNo way 10 years. I suppose that makes sense. David Bacon. :-) Only just? Look harder. Where? You have entered a very long input. Really now that is an interesting fact I hadn't heard before. I could but let's get back to that later. Umm. Are you a man or a woman? Try saying that with more or less context. What kind of some evidence to back up my idea that we are a lot farther along than most people think do you need? That's flattering, maybe another time. Hmm. "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible."--Lord Kelvin, 1895. Huh. What is that? :-) :-) I am sure you could. How old are you?

[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Alice ]</p>
post #26 of 41
great topic

i'll try not to dive into my mind/machine philosophy notes

much more scotch before i'd attempt any external crit of Searle's Chinese Room. &lt;pauses for irony, but it's clearly too late&gt;

tons of pre-asimov writers on machine futures:
fritz lang's, "metropolis"; stanislaw lem (and some other 1920's era eastern european writers... including the gent who coined the term robot); more others than i can call to mind. plenty of great short stories and article-sized riffs on what might be possible. some later authors acknowledge these early thinkers, many benefit without conscious or cogent reproduction of similar. (linkage exists. maybe i'll dig tomorrow)

we must bow a'la "wayne's world" - we are not worthy - to isaac asimov for the 3 laws that will forever bear his name. awesomeov dude.

alan turing and some of his cambridge crowd made some pretty special speculations on artificial intelligence and the machine "passing itself off as human" (not the original meaning of turing test). about to read a <a href="http://www.perseuspublishing.com/focus2.asp?ISBN1=0738201383" target="_blank">cool new book</a> of issues in AI and machine rights set as if at dinner with turning, schrödinger, wittgenstein, c.p.snow, and j.b.s.haldane arguing: "Can we build a machine that could duplicate human cognitive processes?"

blade runner has been mentioned (some prefer director's cut, some not), but for bonus points, can you name the title of the original story?

the author, Philip K. Dick has some other texts of interest (including another Spielberg Film adaptation... Minority Report)

maybe we need a sub thread asking that similarly curious (and late night) question

for me, philip k. dick sort of connects (too late to explain how) with Haruki Murakami, who connects into Gibson (Idoru, specifically on this topic), but now the web is getting dense so i'll stop spinning

-
BTW, i'll let others chime before i spill the title.
-

but on the topic of what current robot tech can do
check out the latest japanese robots (and webGUI)

'droids? no longer just sci fi movie props or actors... real on video


new sony humanoid robot(1/3 size of human "asimo") <a href="http://www.sony.co.jp/en/SonyInfo/News/Press/200203/02-0319E/" target="_blank">Press Release (english)</a>

then test your Craig Charles impression and check <a href="http://www.sony.co.jp/en/SonyInfo/dream/robotbox/" target="_blank">RobotBox</a>
home to a wacked interface for quicktime5 movies in japanese. you can select 'english' translations of text below the vids (sometimes funnier)

new "sdr-4x" humanoid, some aibo, and some cooler rolling clear spheres, etc
check vid 15 for snakebots, mini t-rex bots, and more

-
Tyrell: "More human than human" is our motto.
Batty: Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here.

edit: links and layout

[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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post #27 of 41
Thread Starter 
I like those videos,they are great.
post #28 of 41
"Do androids dream of electric sheep" Do I get a prize?

Mechanics is one thing, general purpose intelligence is currently an unsolved problem (a rather large understatement).

[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Stoo ]</p>
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post #29 of 41
What amazed me was the intellectual reaction to the film AI. It's plainly obvious that the only person with any sense in that whole mess was the carnival owner who made a sport of demolishing the 'bots, yet he was happily recieved as a villain when in fact he was a hero.

We should all have a similar attitude about AI and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER for any reason let Artificial Intelligence achieve sentience-- forgive the star-trek allusions but for lack of a better word.

Robots should never be more than our tools.

If a 'David' ever existed, we should only want to kill it, anything else is folly.
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post #30 of 41
i think, to make truly intelligent and useful robots, we should take an evolutionary approach. we should make very simple and basic robots, that are only capable of a few things, including producing new robots. gestation period would be a few hours, so evolution wouldn't really take millions of years. with time, they'll make more, and the fittest will survive (and we can make sure that ones that are relatively harmful or useless are stopped shortly after production). they should then adapt to our every need.
post #31 of 41
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Our needs are best met by us. What we need most is to be in our environment doing our work and not pasing it on to machines so that we may in blissful ignorance fade into trivial bags of skin.

What we need is to tune the political system so that our work becomes meaningful on every level. If we become craftsmen of every discipline (artist, agriculturalist, farmer, gardener, designer, engineer, thinker, carpenter, mason, chef, tailor, etc etc...) we will not need or want robots to do our work, we will do our work and that will be our joy.
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post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 
Alice who posted above is a robot,currently though she is banned from AI.
post #33 of 41
advances in artificial intelligence can never keep pace with dramatic developments in human stupidity

&lt;from dan quayle and GWB's linguistic cramps, to the fully deserving winners @ <a href="http://www.DarwinAwards.com" target="_blank">www.DarwinAwards.com</a> &gt;

and for Matsu and those who want "beauty and art" as a measure of the virtual "man"...

from chess to music, try "Deep Blue Monk" (original Feed article seems down, check the cached version) amongst <a href="http://www.gyre.org/news/related/artificial_life/Artificial%20Intelligence/10/" target="_blank">these artisan attempts</a> to encroach on human creativity

not a threat to most artists yet, but those britneys...
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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post #34 of 41
Perhaps you misunderstand me, I want no virtual man at all, thd possiblity of such should be deeply frightening, the stuff of nightmares, not dreams.
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post #35 of 41
Thread Starter 
It can be either,or both,but it is going to happen,and sooner than most think,I don't think our society is ready for it at all.
post #36 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by thuh Freak:
<strong>i think, to make truly intelligent and useful robots, we should take an evolutionary approach. we should make very simple and basic robots, that are only capable of a few things, including producing new robots. gestation period would be a few hours, so evolution wouldn't really take millions of years. with time, they'll make more, and the fittest will survive (and we can make sure that ones that are relatively harmful or useless are stopped shortly after production). they should then adapt to our every need.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is a bad idea. Having intelligent robots that can multiply quickly would result, IMO, in a Matrix style takeover of the planet by said robots.

And if GRACE is so advanced, why doesn't

this


look like this?
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post #37 of 41
Thread Starter 
GRACE has many drawbacks,obviously the quality of the graphics is very poor,but a very important step has been reached,a robot autonomously registered and attended a conference on Artificial Intelligence,it was a very big event in human history,I wonder why it was ignored by the media.
post #38 of 41
Can I be a robot tiger?

(Sad. 30+ posts and I'm the first to make this reference. You guys are lame. )
post #39 of 41
[quote]Originally posted by murbot:
<strong>

Holy shit, I think my wife is a robot.

[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

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post #40 of 41
Thread Starter 
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