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A Question for Jamie (or anyone else from the UK)

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
Please forgive me for being an ignorant American, but what is the difference between: the United Kingdom, England, Britain, and Great Britain? Is it the same difference as between America and the United States?

<img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> Sorry for asking such a stupid question.
post #2 of 64
The seperate countries are

England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and (southern) Ireland

The 'UK' refers to every country in this landmass

Great Britain and Britain refers to every country except (Southern) Ireland that come under duristiction from the Westminster (London) government, while Ireland (southern) has its own government.
post #3 of 64
Thread Starter 
Thanks, MarcUK. Just to clarify, Scotland is the northern part of the largest island, and Wales is on the west coast of the same island, about half way between Scotland and the southern end of the island?
post #4 of 64


MarcUk, Southern Ireland is not part of the UK at all.

England, Scotland and Wales are countries which make up the island of Great Britain or just Britain.

All of these plus Northern Ireland make the UK, or to give it's full title, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Ireland or The Republic of Ireland is independent of the UK and was never a part of Great Britain.

J :cool:

Edit: Typo

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Jamie ]</p>
post #5 of 64
[quote]The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.<hr></blockquote>

A little long isn't it?

That would be like the US calling itself:

The United States of America, Alaska, and the island of Hawaii.

post #6 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>

A little long isn't it?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's why we just call it UK or 51st State.

J :cool:
post #7 of 64
LONG LIVE ENGLAND AND MANCHESTER!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #8 of 64
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #9 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Dr .M .MACHEN:
<strong>LONG LIVE ENGLAND AND MANCHESTER!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

England 1 Brazil 2

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

And England are OUT of the World Cup.

Maybe you'll stop going on about '66 now!!!
post #10 of 64
Calm down kids. Post your World Cup crap in a thread which is discussing that particular issue, not this one.

J :cool:
post #11 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>Calm down kids. Post your World Cup crap in a thread which is discussing that particular issue, not this one.

J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>


Jamie,

Why does England have a separate World Cup Team? Were there Scottish, Welsh , and Northern Ireland teams as well?

GG

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</p>
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post #12 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>
Why does England have a separate World Cup Team? Were there Scottish, Welsh , and Northern Ireland teams as well?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, N Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have teams. They're just not as good as England!

In fact, the ex-Germany coach Berti Vogts is now the Scotland manager.

J :cool:
post #13 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>

MarcUk, Southern Ireland is not part of the UK at all.

England, Scotland and Wales are countries which make up the island of Great Britain or just Britain.

All of these plus Northern Ireland make the UK, or to give it's full title, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Ireland or The Republic of Ireland is independent of the UK and was never a part of Great Britain.

J :cool:

Edit: Typo

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Jamie ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
i was pretty sure the ROI was part of the UK Jamie, Hence the distinction between "UK" and Great Britain.

If not then what is the difference between UK and GB?
post #14 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>

Yeah, N Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have teams. They're just not as good as England!

In fact, the ex-Germany coach Berti Vogts is now the Scotland manager.

J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>

What's the basis for allowing a country to have more than one team? Could America field 50 teams - one for each state?
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post #15 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by MarcUK:
<strong>
i was pretty sure the ROI was part of the UK Jamie, Hence the distinction between "UK" and Great Britain.

If not then what is the difference between UK and GB?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Republic of Ireland. ROI is not part of the UK or GB, it is an independant country hence why they have the Euro and we don't.

As I said GB is the big island (England, Scotland and Wales) and the UK is the big island plus Northern Ireland.

J :cool:
post #16 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>

What's the basis for allowing a country to have more than one team? Could America field 50 teams - one for each state?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No because they are States. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are countries.

J :cool:
post #17 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>The United States of America, Alaska, and the island of Hawaii.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

...that's islands of Hawaii, though Hawaiian islands would be the more conventional usage.

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post #18 of 64
Republic of Ireland DEFINATLEY NOT part of the UK!
Thats like saying that the USA includes South America and Canada too!
Britain still lays claim to Northern Ireland but that may change in time
post #19 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>


Jamie,

Why does England have a separate World Cup Team? Were there Scottish, Welsh , and Northern Ireland teams as well?

GG

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well this is a really good question : i have two explanations :
- 1) people from UK are to strong : if they make one team they will win all the football and rugby tournaments (note that during the olympic games there is only one team from UK)

2 this countrie cannot support each others : if they make a team in common it would lead to an civil war


If you have alternatives or more stupid explanations please tell me
post #20 of 64
Thread Starter 
This may be another stupid question, but where I come from, the only thing that they teach us about the UK is that you tried to tax us without representation.

If England, Scotland, and Wales are countries, then what is the United Kingdom? Is it kind of like the European Union? Or is it a country too?

The royal family is actully the royal family of Wales, right? But do they rule over all of the UK, or just Wales, and if they rule over all of the UK, did Wales at some point conquer England and Scotland?
post #21 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by smeegers:
<strong>

England 1 Brazil 2

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

And England are OUT of the World Cup.

Maybe you'll stop going on about '66 now!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Quite the reverse. I think this means another four years of going on about '66.
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post #22 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>

The royal family is actully the royal family of Wales, right? But do they rule over all of the UK, or just Wales, and if they rule over all of the UK, did Wales at some point conquer England and Scotland?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The royal family is not the royal family of wales. Charles is the prince of Wales, it's a title. UK means united kingdom. You have to remember that Great britain was a giant empire, but rather than the king or queen take the title of emperor which permit to have kings under him or her, they prefer to have only one king or queen for all, in order to lower the threat of nationalism. But the nationalism is still very strong in great britain,( for example scottish are very proud to be scottish and you should not call them english) , so it was not possible to remove the previous kingdoms and to replace it whith a big one named great britain.
UK is the way that people from great britains have find a balance between unity and nationalism.

Here is all my 2 cent explanation on the subject.
post #23 of 64
Thread Starter 
So if Charles is the prince of Wales, is there a prince of Scotland? what is William?


If the scottish get mad if you call them English, do they get mad if you call them British?
post #24 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>This may be another stupid question, but where I come from, the only thing that they teach us about the UK is that you tried to tax us without representation.

If England, Scotland, and Wales are countries, then what is the United Kingdom? Is it kind of like the European Union? Or is it a country too?

The royal family is actully the royal family of Wales, right? But do they rule over all of the UK, or just Wales, and if they rule over all of the UK, did Wales at some point conquer England and Scotland?</strong><hr></blockquote>


<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland were originally entirely separate countries with their own governments but they were conquered by the English at various points during the Middle Ages - or to be more precise, by the Norman French who had conquered the native English. (The exception is Scotland which became part of the Union when King James the somethingthe ascended to the throne of England I]and[/I] Scotland in 160something). Southern Ireland won independence in the 1920s (I think), but because the majority of the population in northern Ireland was protestant descendants of Scottish settlers, as opposed to the Catholic Irish, they were allowed to remain under the British government in the province of Northern Ireland - and most northern Irish protestants are still vehemently opposed to integration with the Republic of Ireland, however much the British government might like this.
Nowadays, the term 'United Kingdom' refers, as Jamie rightly says, to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, all governed from London although Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the English regions all have varying degrees of autonomy. The situation is similar to the position of the US states in relation to the federal government. The geographical term Great Britain, or just Britain, is a synonym for United Kingdom.
The Royal Family are the royal family of the United Kingdom, although it should be remembered that they are just constitutional figures for the tourists, and have no real power. The official title of Prince Charles is the Prince of Wales, but again this is just a title and has no real meaning.
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post #25 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>So if Charles is the prince of Wales, is there a prince of Scotland? what is William?


If the scottish get mad if you call them English, do they get mad if you call them British?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Whoops, powerdoc got in there before me and he's more or less right, although I'm not entirely sure about some of his more sociological theories.

[quote] So if Charles is the prince of Wales, is there a prince of Scotland?<hr></blockquote>

The Queen's husband is called Duke of Edinburgh, but again, it's just a title. It doesn't really mean anything.
William is just heir to the throne, as far as I know. If Charles or Her Maj died, he'd become Prince of Wales presumably.

[quote] If the scottish get mad if you call them English, do they get mad if you call them British?<hr></blockquote>
No, because 'British' means from the United Kingdom, which includes England and Scotland
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post #26 of 64
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by The Blue Meanie:
<strong>William is just heir to the throne, as far as I know. If Charles or Her Maj died, he'd become Prince of Wales presumably.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

In this case, why would he become the Prince of Wales and not the King?
post #27 of 64
The Blue Meanie is almost completely correct but Great Britian, or just Britain, is not the same as the UK. Great Britain does not include Northern Ireland. Look here:

United Kingdom (the whole thing) of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland.

MiMac Tiocfaidh Ar La!

Stroszek, Wales conquer England and Scotland? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> No.

J :cool:
post #28 of 64
DP, Soz

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Jamie ]</p>
post #29 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>

In this case, why would he become the Prince of Wales and not the King?</strong><hr></blockquote>

William is second in line to the throne. When Queen Liz dies, Charles will become King and William will receive a title (not necessarily Prince of Wales). Then when King Charles dies William becomes King.

J :cool:
post #30 of 64
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>William is second in line to the throne. When Queen Liz dies, Charles will become King and William will receive a title (not necessarily Prince of Wales). Then when King Charles dies William becomes King.

J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>

OK, I misread what the Blue Meanie wrote, I thiought he said William would become Prince of Wales if the Queen and Charles died.

[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>Stroszek, Wales conquer England and Scotland? [[Laughing]] No.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, like I said, all I learned in school is that the King tried to tax us without representation.

BTW, how is the Revolutionary War (or whatever you call it) taught in your schools?

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Stroszek ]</p>
post #31 of 64
I still don't understand the four soccer teams explanation. The United Kingdom is a single country. It only has one seat in the U.N. It should only have one soccer team.

Are their any other examples of a single country having multiple soccer teams like this in World Cup competition?

Texas was, at one point, independent of the United States. Does this mean that Texas is qualified to have it's own soccer team in the World Cup competition? Or the original 13 colonies for that matter?

Not trying to be nit picky here, just curious if there's a logical basis, or a special exception being made for the UK.

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</p>
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post #32 of 64
If the Queen and Prince Charles died then William becomes King.

[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>

BTW, how is the Revolutionary War (or whatever you call it) taught in your schools?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The what? We used to go shopping during history lessons. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

J :cool:
post #33 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>[b]...Great Britian, or just Britain..</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course, we used to be called Fantastic Britain, but the Welsh brought the average down.

: ucks back behind Offa's Dyke::
post #34 of 64
When in doubt, drop a nuke on the Irish and yuou'lll solve most of the world's problems in two seconds as the shock wave expands.

I love being Scottish.
post #35 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by cdhostage:
<strong>

I love being Scottish.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As do I!

J :cool:
post #36 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>

BTW, how is the Revolutionary War (or whatever you call it) taught in your schools?

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: Stroszek ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's normally called the American War of Independence over here. It's taught in passing, but not in any great detail.
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post #37 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by The Blue Meanie:
<strong>

It's normally called the American War of Independence over here. It's taught in passing, but not in any great detail.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh I see! The one with Will Smith and the PowerBook?

J :cool:
post #38 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by cdhostage:
<strong>
I love being Scottish.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Blue Meanie is half Scottish...(and in fact has an outrageously Scottis real name)
Nemo me impune lacessit!

PS - Which CD took you hostage?

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>
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post #39 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by Jamie:
<strong>The Blue Meanie is almost completely correct but Great Britian, or just Britain, is not the same as the UK. Great Britain does not include Northern Ireland. Look here:

United Kingdom (the whole thing) of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair point. I guess Northern Ireland is a province, strictly speaking
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post #40 of 64
[quote]Originally posted by gobble gobble:
<strong>I still don't understand the four soccer teams explanation. The United Kingdom is a single country. It only has one seat in the U.N. It should only have one soccer team.

Are their any other examples of a single country having multiple soccer teams like this in World Cup competition?

Texas was, at one point, independent of the United States. Does this mean that Texas is qualified to have it's own soccer team in the World Cup competition? Or the original 13 colonies for that matter?

Not trying to be nit picky here, just curious if there's a logical basis, or a special exception being made for the UK.

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe it is a special exception. Dunno really. The nearest I can come to an answer is to say that England, Scotland and Wales still think of themselves as separate countries under a single government.
Has anyone said Texas can't enter a separate team? Would it want to?
[quote] four soccer teams <hr></blockquote>
It's three, surely? England, Scotland and Wales. There's no team from Northern Ireland as far as I'm aware.
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