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Sensational lawsuit accuses Apple of turning iPhone 3G into "iBrick" - Page 4

post #121 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wholeheartedly agree that Apple should allow some downgrade of iOS if a version isnt working out, but these users could have gotten a phone that worked simply by taking their complaint to someone that could help them. I cant feel sorry for people that chose to complain on the internet instead of getting Apple to get them a new phone after this happened.

PS: Doesnt MS charge for a downgrade option to XP from Windows 7? Imagine if Apple charged for that option.

The problem is there is no one to help them, and Apple was not going to give out new phones. I went to 2 Apple stores after I upgraded to iOS 4. Both stores told me that there was no way to revert back to iOS 3, and I should buy a new phone. Never mind that I was not yet due for an upgrade, and a new phone would have cost me $400.

I think the suit is BS, but the situation, along with others (e.g., logic boards in the new Airs), tells me that Apple is having some QC issues as they have grown.

When Apple said that iOS 4 would run on the 3G, with certain features excluded, the clear implication of the statement is that Apple tested the software, and that there would be no significant performance deficits, which was not the case for a large number of users.
post #122 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Right. We should also sue Apple for not making Snow Leopard compatible with PowerMacs.

No, but Apple should not have allowed the upgrade.
post #123 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

for the record this is the link to the iPhone software licence:
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf

Section 7 is the disclaimer of warranties, which states you use the software "at your own risk" which I understand is the case for most consumer software including OS X and Windows.

It's intriguing that the same section in the iPhone 4 licence states makes the same statements but also acknowledges the disclaimers may not be valid in certain regions and countries.

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone4.pdf

You can make a disclaimer or put into your EULA about anything, but it doesn't mean it'll hold up in a court of law. Just because you put up a sign that says you're not responsible, doesn't mean you're not responsible.
post #124 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

In the old days, we bought a product, hoped it worked well and recommended it (or not) to all our friends or family. A company's success was based upon just that.

Today, we sue the livin' crap out of anything that doesn't make us happy.


It takes two to tango. Lawyers actually think this crap up and then place ads in newspapers and the like to troll people in. You see it all the time on TV and elsewhere concerning drugs, asbestos, baby cribs, etc. The lawyers don't have to actually win the lawsuit to make money. Most companies find it easier and cheaper to pay the lawyers off than fight the lawsuit. For a company like Apple it becomes a matter of the easiest, cheapest route to make it go away.

We'll never about this lawsuit again until, a year or two from now, a settlement is announced with both parties agreeing to non-disclosure of the terms. And that's the facts, Jack.
post #125 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

From the story:

"Wofford contends that Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x "

I think Apple was upgrading the firmware to prevent jailbreaking. Once the firmware was upgraded, there was no roll back possible.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #126 of 175
Classy.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #127 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

No, but Apple should not have allowed the upgrade.

so the next iPhone comes out with an new iOS5

and Apple claims it works great with the iPhone4 ! oh yeah

will you believe them and all you friends are laughing at you cos you haven't upgraded

ah yes peer pressure . luv it

The Matrix has you Neo

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



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post #128 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurbiesAndBeans View Post

For those saying "its a 2 year old device get over it", does that mean that the 3-year Apple Care I bought is useless after 2 years?

No, but the two year AppleCare purchasable with an iPhone 3G would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Shame on apple. This is embarrassing. They should have done better.

There is no excuse for the 4.0 sw making the 3G worse.

You haven't even read the article, much less the rest of this thread.
post #129 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think Apple was upgrading the firmware to prevent jailbreaking. Once the firmware was upgraded, there was no roll back possible.

and tell em what I really think if I can't go back

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



Reply

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



Reply
post #130 of 175
iOS 4.1 still doesnt run exactly fantastic on the 3G but its miles better than 4.0. I think if anything this lawsuit should bring is an option to simply roll back on your firmware without it being a pain in the ass (to revert back to 3.1 you had to use all different kinds of tools since it couldnt be done via iTunes).
post #131 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Is Apple obligated to provide new OS's for older devices (or indeed any devices), of course not. They could have released iOS 4 for only the iPhone 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Apple should have only let 3GS user uppgrade, then this lawsuit wouldn't be needed

Actually, Apple was obligated to offer the next major iOS as an upgrade. Look at the final paragraph in Section 1, General, of the iPhone licence.

It's notable there's no obligation for providing an update to the next major iOS in the iPhone 4 licence.

Wow, I've made a 100 already!
post #132 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

You may not have said Apple is required to provide software upgrades but you strongly imply it and other manufacturers should provide them.

Not for 5 years I didn't. I said that, in my opinion Apple, and others, should be required to provide support, meaning not obsolete the product, for a minimum of 3 years from the initial release of the product, and I gave the reasons why in the other posts made. There is a huge difference. By obsolescence, I'm saying that they should not post an OS upgrade that renders it useless. Putting out iOS 4 guarantees that in a certain amount of time, the majority of apps on the App Store will require iOS 4. If you bought a 3G last year, you should still be able to have the latest OS and get apps for it.

Now, I also said that Android is in the same boat. They are still selling Android devices that have Android 1.6 on the market. It's impossible to even get apps for it. This is ridiculous. It should be held to the same standard.

Again, from the initial release of a smartphone, there should be a minimum of 3 years support, meaning able to keep current on software and OS updates. This will allow a phone to be useful the entire life of a 2 year contract, even if it was bought the day before they released a newer product. It's not right that people who purchase the old product right before a new one is released to replace it, should be left out in the cold so fast. They paid just as much money as those that bought the newer one.

Now, of course, that doesn't mean it needs to have all the features. Obviously, newer phones have faster processors, new features put on them, etc. That's different. However, you shouldn't be in a situation where one week before they released iPhone 4, you bought a 3G, which was still available, with the promise that iOS 4 would work with the phone, only to find out it doesn't really work well at all.

I'm not making any claims that Apple has or has not done wrong here. I'm simply stating my stance on the subject, in general. It's for the courts to decide, and not for the public to decide without any facts or evidence presented to them. That's what courts are for.
post #133 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

so the next iPhone comes out with an new iOS5

and Apple claims it works great with the iPhone4 ! oh yeah

will you believe them and all you friends are laughing at you cos you haven't upgraded

ah yes peer pressure . luv it

The Matrix has you Neo

No I will not believe them.

I am way too old for "peer pressure" to be any sort of factor.
post #134 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

and tell em what I really think if I can't go back

Bring someone along to take pictures of security escorting you out of the mall. ^_^
"Picasso had a saying, 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we've always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
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"Picasso had a saying, 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we've always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
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post #135 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

It is not true.

And even if it were, saying that "everybody else was doing it!" is seldom a defense beyond grammar school.

Eh? I think you have comprehension problem. It's not to say "everybody was doing it" it counter the claim that "Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x "
post #136 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

The reason why I bought Apple computers , ipod's and iPhone the last 10 years is preciseley to avoid having to spend whole weekends rolling back, re-installing and generally fiddling with software and hardware. The last thing I want to do is waste my valuable time at the weekend tweaking a damed phoned! GET IT

It certainly wouldn't take an entire weekend to roll back an iPhone 3G to 3.1.3. You got all your apps, music, videos, etc. in iTunes. Your pics are in iPhoto and your contacts in your address book. When I did mine, it took 2 hours max and everything was back where it was supposed to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

I tried rolling back to OS 3.1 and it would NOT let me ! Of course if I really wanted to I could go an waste an entire weekend finding how to do it and do it. BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT. hey I used to install Windows 2000 server on PC's years ago. I'm SO glad I no longer have to put up with buggy MS installs! But thats beside the point.

See above. You want a link? I posted one on page 2 in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Were you formerly a PC geek and used to this kind of procedure?

What about all the HYPE

It just works.. that Apple so prouldy trumpets

Yes, but rolling back my iPhone was a lot easier than trying to work my way through some stupid PC problem. As for the hype about Apple stuff "just working", most of the time it does. To expect it to be perfect 100% of the time is unreasonable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

its 2 years old , and worked fine and fast until this crappy iOS4
One thing I'm definately considering is getting a Droid 2 . it has HDMI and I can skype over 3G with it and there are other things too. I don't really wnat to go to Android if I can avoid it, but as far as I can tell its not going to be that great a switch and I have far more control over it's interface than with Apple's iPhone and if this experience is going to keep happening I'm losing nothing.

This espisode has caused me to question getting an iPhone4 because I feel that Apple cannot be trusted any more

Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to buy another iPhone.
post #137 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

You can make a disclaimer or put into your EULA about anything, but it doesn't mean it'll hold up in a court of law. Just because you put up a sign that says you're not responsible, doesn't mean you're not responsible.

Well, that all depends on context and juristriction, the Appleinsider has a global reach, I'm sitting in the United Kingdom, even within this one country we have three different juidicial systems: England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I presume you're in the US where you have at least fifty one different systems - state laws plus the federal laws.

EULA are a contractual obligation between the person who uses the software and the licensor of that software. A court can examine whether each party meets its contractual obligations and whether terms within that contract are unfair or illegal. I believe Psystar where the most recent challengers of Apple's EULA.

As for responsibility, if you've committed a criminal act then nothing you say or display changes that reality; this lawsuit is a civil and not criminal matter, the issue is whether Apple was responsible for causing damages to the plaintiff which could have been reasonably and foreseeably avoided.
post #138 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

From the story:

"Wofford contends that Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x "

See my post here.
post #139 of 175
this is the scrutiny you get when you tout yourself as #1
post #140 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


multi-
million

I haven't read many of the posts but I imagine someone has already amended this comment to multi-BILLION.
post #141 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

so the next iPhone comes out with an new iOS5

and Apple claims it works great with the iPhone4 ! oh yeah

will you believe them and all you friends are laughing at you cos you haven't upgraded

ah yes peer pressure . luv it

The Matrix has you Neo

Completely worthless analogy. iPhone OS 3 worked perfectly fine on the 3G. For this analogy to make sense, you'd have to be talking about iOS 6. Heck, iPhone OS 3 works perfectly fine on the iPhone 2G, so I really have absolutely no idea where any of these people get off.
post #142 of 175
. What a silly lawsuit. Its a over reaction, but people will sue over anything.
post #143 of 175
Why not simply let users restore what they had? Not that big of a deal.

But forcing Apple into it via lawsuit is stupid. The lawyers will rake in millions, the rest of us will (literally) be eligible for pennies. There are better uses for the time & money.
post #144 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Well, might be roundabout, but pretty straight forward nonetheless. Here's the one I used: http://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/07/h...-os-3-1-3.html

Rob, not to go too far off-topic, but did you actually succeed? I followed these instructions but it didn't work for me - I got the impression each individual iPhone's OS revision level is registered on Apple's iTunes Store server.

I tried to revert to 3.1.3, but when the iPhone "phoned home", it wouldn't let me since it "knew" I had updated it to 4.0.
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post #145 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

I haven't read many of the posts but I imagine someone has already amended this comment to multi-BILLION.

Yes, several times.

It's sure to be multi-trillion any day now
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post #146 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

I presume you're in the US where you have at least fifty one different systems - state laws plus the federal laws.

Oh, if it were only that simple. There are state circuit courts, superior courts, district courts, courts of appeal, and state supreme courts. Those are only for the 50 states. Each one also has a Federal district court. There are more courts for territories. There are twelve separate Federal appellate courts. Tax courts, Federal claims courts... the US is a court paradise
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post #147 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by weckbeckheck View Post

Yes they can. I still believe in a lifespan of technology products longer than 2 years. And apple is a million dollar company. Don't tell me they don't have the resources. The argument is most likely true and valid.

Might want to edit your post. Apple is a multi BILLION dollar company....
post #148 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


multi-
million

try multi-BILLION. Where have you been?
post #149 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by weckbeckheck View Post


And apple is a million dollar company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


multi-million
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post


try multi-BILLION.

That would be multi-hundred billion dollar company.
post #150 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurbiesAndBeans View Post

For those saying "its a 2 year old device get over it", does that mean that the 3-year Apple Care I bought is useless after 2 years?

If you purchased AppleCare for your iPhone, you did not purchase a three year plan for it. Your AppleCare extends the warranty to two years (from one).
-> AppleCare Protection Plan for iPhone
post #151 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

when you install a new (major) version of a program or OS, doesnt Apple make you agree to not sue them for performance issues when you agree to the EULA? There are like 20 pages of fine print on those things. I would be shocked if that kind of thing wasnt in there.

So you're saying you don't really know if that kind of language is in the EULA and you're just assuming? Smooth move Exlax....
post #152 of 175
Still problems with proximity sensor, blinking on/off near my face sometimes causing me to mute or hang up the call. My signal still sucks, even though I had full bars with my 3G, now get only 1-2 bars with the IP4 at my house. Losing faith in Apple, really all about money. Jobs!!!! Do something!!!
post #153 of 175
I think I have been patient. I did the upgrade and got an almost unusable phone. Couldn't even answer calls sometimes. But I waited. Then 4.1 was released. Things were better for a while, but now the phone has become glitchy again. Not as bad as before, but not good. I am waiting to see what 4.2 brings if anything. If it doesn't improve or gets worse then I will take the phone back to iOS 3. Patience in this case may not be a virtue.
post #154 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

Why not simply let users restore what they had? Not that big of a deal.

But forcing Apple into it via lawsuit is stupid. The lawyers will rake in millions, the rest of us will (literally) be eligible for pennies. There are better uses for the time & money.

Point well taken. This will be hard to prove as far as intent & outcome. Anyone effected by this problem should contact Apple.
post #155 of 175
iOS 4 did exactly what the article describes to a huge number of users. I ending up restoring dozens of them a week for months in a futile attempt to keep users from losing their minds.

Any corporation in danger of becoming #1 inevitably screws its customers. Apple should be slapped, and hard.
post #156 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Rob, not to go too far off-topic, but did you actually succeed? I followed these instructions but it didn't work for me - I got the impression each individual iPhone's OS revision level is registered on Apple's iTunes Store server.

I tried to revert to 3.1.3, but when the iPhone "phoned home", it wouldn't let me since it "knew" I had updated it to 4.0.

Hmm, it worked for me, but they actually do say that the guide does not promise or offer consistent results. I guess I got lucky maybe?
post #157 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I would be shocked if this kind of thing was in there and the lawyers in that class-action suit decided to proceed anyway. Damn bloodsuckers.

Yes, but does not excuse them from releasing an update than they knew would cause problems for millions of users.

Their response was,
1 wait for the update (3 months)
2 buy the iPhone 4

Just because you have a clause in your EULA does not allow you to be reckless.
post #158 of 175
Wow, this is something. But I honestly think there's still a long way ahead before something gets proven. After all, it's Apple Inc.
post #159 of 175
I think the suit is bs. I updated my 3GS and had nary a problem.
And I'm sure thousand of iPhone users did the same thing and had no problems.
Sounds like someone is looking for a payday.
post #160 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggley View Post

Wow, this is something. But I honestly think there's still a long way ahead before something gets proven. After all, it's Apple Inc.

You didn't read the article. You didn't read this thread. It was bunk before it was filed. 4.1 fixed the problems.
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