or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple to discontinue Xserve after Jan. 31, 2011
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple to discontinue Xserve after Jan. 31, 2011 - Page 5

post #161 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

The iPod really exploded when they began offering multiple models. .

I think that the iPod really exploded when Windows users were given the ability to use it. Wasn't that when it really took off?
post #162 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatson View Post

Apple... now officially a toymaker.

I am sure they were considered a "toymaker" by IBM in the 70s.
How did that work out?

Apple does have 50 billion worth of cash on hand. Wonder if that played into the decision......
post #163 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

Is this what Apple will run in its server farm?



You owe me a keyboard. I just threw up all over mine.
post #164 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It won't disappear. It will change. Apple is driving innovation in the consumer sector.

Macs, iPads, iOS.

The first real stroke is the new Air.

Don't you get it?



I don't get it at all. You say the Air is the first real stroke. The point is that this will make it so the desktop does not disappear.

I don't get it at all. Could you explain?
post #165 of 333
There is a bigger story here. I guess we will find out in time.
post #166 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think that everybody's desktop lines will disappear in 5-10 years.

Sure, there will be existing installations! But the new solutions being marketed will not place a desktop (or floortop) at every workstation.

.

I agree. I want an appliance in the cellar, much like today's water heaters. I want to connect to it with everything from cheap dumb client stuff like my TV set or a tablet computer up to whatever makes sense for my out-of-home use - most likely a sophisticated tablet that does everything today's laptops do, along with tiny pocket stuff that just plugs in to anyone's system so you can use their keyboard/mouse/monitor along with your home server and/or their home server and/or local storage and/or cloud storage.

All seamless. Grab any device, from the cheap single-purpose clients, up to the amazing stuff you show off to your friends, and you've got all the content your family owns along with all the other options that the device will allow.
post #167 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

I don't get it at all. You say the Air is the first real stroke. The point is that this will make it so the desktop does not disappear.

I don't get it at all. Could you explain?

Apple will be integrating SSDs into all new Macs.
Since Apple buys these chips in freaking huge quantities, they will be able to offer a generation of Macs that will be able to offer performance at a price the Wintel world can't match.

The iPad was the first true example of this.
Apple used to be the more expensive option.
The iPad is actually the less expensive option in the tablet market.
post #168 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Apple should replace the XServe with the iServe.

Can I assume it would run iOS Server Edition?
post #169 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Many people and companies are using the mac mini's as servers. There are companies that have hundreds of them on racks connected together. The mini probably was stealing the X-serve's business. You can get almost three mini's configured to be servers for the price of an x-serve. Further, there is software that let's you hook them up to work as a single unit.

Somehow, I don't think that FedEx or MasterCard or even Thrifty Rent-a-Car will be switching over anytime soon.
post #170 of 333
Along with refusing to put a floppy in the original Mac, and outrageous pricing on the NeXT product line - this has to be Steve's most boneheaded move.
post #171 of 333
The official transition document from Apple. Note the performance difference between the mini & the Xserve.

http://images.apple.com/xserve/pdf/L...erve_Guide.pdf

Also, the Slashdot crowd weighs in: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/1...ontinue-Xserve
post #172 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

It makes perfect sense. It is unlikely that they make much money from that product line.

Next to be discontinued: High end Mac workstations.

To an Apple suddenly making the majority of their money from a tiny phone, a tablet computer and apps... servers might look very unappealing, but it does harm their credibility with corporate customers. Let's hope they come back with something even better.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #173 of 333
Maybe they'll introduce a new Mac Pro which just happens to be 1U or 2U...


lol
post #174 of 333
Well, unsurprisingly, lots of wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

<sigh>

This is both an expected and rational move. There are several factors at play here that make this move make sense:

1. This product was likely not very profitable and a distraction from Apple's larger strategy.

2. Apple does/will offer a small business/office "server" solution in the form of the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (server configuration...announced today).

3. More and more things are moving to the "cloud". Apple recognizes this and provides some (and likely more in the future) cloud-based services.

4. The data center is actually well-served by many other vendors. Apple likely didn't feel they could add a whole lot in that space.

And there are probably other contributing factors.

As to whether they will get out of the desktop business? To early to tell. I could see the Mac Pro line dwindling down and disappearing in a few years. I could also see some streamlining of the MacBook line.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #175 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

'bye bye'? they never were in the enterprise. they never worked at getting in the enterprise and no one really uses them except for here and there a lonely xserv ha.
they needed to just stop pretending they could compete and get out.
they are a 'mobile' company now anyway right?


we've got a rack filled with a couple of Xserves and an Xserve RAID (6 TB RAID 5) here at work. they dropped the Xserve RAID, so our second one had to be a 20 TB Promise Vtrak....

regardless of whether they succeeded, apple *did* make an attempt in enterprise, and we are one of those businesses that are living proof.

Of bigger news is that they are not discontinuing OS X Server software. the rack mount-only server might be gone, but Virginia Tech started their supercomputer with Mac G5 towers, and only upgraded to the Xserve when they were first released.... and, interestingly enough, the Mac Pro is still sized to fit into a 19" rack...
post #176 of 333
I own two XServes, and I have mixed feelings about them. XServe is the best option for Mac OS X Server, but it has flaws. It is limited as others have pointed out.

Looking at the big picture, I think this is the end of the line for rack-mount hardware from Apple. Apple should be Apple's #1 customer for enterprise, but they don't use what they make. For example, Mac OS X Server has mail, but Apple uses Exchange servers internally.

WebObjects is another interesting example. It's used by one of the biggest online stores: The Apple Store, but they stopped supporting its use by customers. Development was being pulled in two directions: meet internal needs, and also package it for customer use.

In very large server farms (i.e. google), they don't uses cases. It's more efficient to just buy motherboards and hard drives and bolt the components to a flat sheet of metal. Packaging up a server into a shipping product is a big cost.

So, Apple enterprise is torn between two competing needs: internal and external customers.

I suspect their plan is this:You don't need an XServe, Apple will host all the services you need in our data center. This way, they can concentrate the hardware on only internal needs, and maybe eventually only support internal installations of Server.
post #177 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Apple included a trial ZFS implementation in a prior OS X. I played with it a bit across several Macs and external HDDs.

I think Apple abandoned it for several reasons:

-- it was overkill for the requirements of most Mac users
-- Apple couldn't figure out how to simplify the complexity with a GUI to make it usable to any but the most technical Mac users

I am surprised/disappointed it is not part of OS X Server.

All of which ignores the fact that ZFS' creator doesn't even support it any more. There was nothing Apple could do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatson View Post

I agree with all except the last bit.

So you agree with all the facts and then dream up a scenario which is completely CONTRADICTORY to the facts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

The official transition document from Apple. Note the performance difference between the mini & the Xserve.

http://images.apple.com/xserve/pdf/L...erve_Guide.pdf

So what? The mini is a great server for my application - the xserve would be gross overkill.

Different products for different markets. Get it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Along with refusing to put a floppy in the original Mac, and outrageous pricing on the NeXT product line - this has to be Steve's most boneheaded move.

Thanks for proving you don't have a clue about the computer market.

The iMac turned into one of the top selling computer models of its time - and was the start of Apple's resurgence.

NeXT ended up earning hundreds of millions of dollars for Jobs (billions if you count his profits on Apple stock) and is now the #2 OS in the world.

With failures like those, who needs winners?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #178 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I totally disagree!

Desktops? DESKTOPS? We don't need no stinkin' desktops!

.

Wow Golly Gee!! What an intelligent post - "We don't need no stinkin' desktops!"

No I suppose YOU never will need no stinkin desktop. Have fun enjoying your movies, photographs, and listening to music on your iPad!!!!!
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
Reply
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
Reply
post #179 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

What rill they use in Apple server farms?

.

They could be all headed into Apple's server farm in North Carolina, and Apple might get into selling cloud services. Maybe? I dunno. It sucks though. It's strange, really. Apple wants to sell more iPads?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #180 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Wow Golly Gee!! What an intelligent post - "We don't need no stinkin' desktops!"

No I suppose YOU never will need no stinkin desktop. Have fun enjoying your movies, photographs, and listening to music on your iPad!!!!!

1) Learn the origins of such paraphrasing that is done for comic effect. They will show up again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE 2) Saying that satellite computing devices will outnumber typical PCs is not some farfetched notion. iOS devices (which you refer to as iToys) already outnumber the number of Macs sold by 6 to 1. If we look at all other major PC makers and MS, they are all focusing their attention on satellite computing.

3) Dicks statement isnt saying that desktop computers will go away completely, but that our reliance on them as our primary means of communicating digitally will wane. This is the nature of all tech. Paradigm shifts do happen and with mobile computing getting more robust there simply is less need for the average person to have PC in every room. We already had this shift from desktops to notebooks, now were seeing this with handheld devices that suit the majority of casual computing needs.

4) I predict well see an upsurge of desktops as the single, powerful, stationary computer, with multiple smartphones and tablets in a household serving a multitude of satellite computing needs. Even the TV will get involved in future of computing.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #181 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

You sound thrilled! Must be happy Apple saved your effing job security. Anybody in the know knows that if Apple wanted to play the disposable server game they could.
The server business is a dump that keeps a bunch of high paid techs employed.
laugh at that!

i saw that you also made some bizarre comment about 'job security' on another post? what are you talking about? wait...i know: You don't have a clue about what you are mouthing off about.
post #182 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, unsurprisingly, lots of wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

<sigh>

This is both an expected and rational move. There are several factors at play here that make this move make sense:

1. This product was likely not very profitable and a distraction from Apple's larger strategy.

2. Apple does/will offer a small business/office "server" solution in the form of the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (server configuration...announced today).

3. More and more things are moving to the "cloud". Apple recognizes this and provides some (and likely more in the future) cloud-based services.

4. The data center is actually well-served by many other vendors. Apple likely didn't feel they could add a whole lot in that space.

And there are probably other contributing factors.

As to whether they will get out of the desktop business? To early to tell. I could see the Mac Pro line dwindling down and disappearing in a few years. I could also see some streamlining of the MacBook line.

Ah, finally a refreshing voice of reason on this convoluted thread.

I never understood why Apple even bothered with the X-Serve and it makes perfect sense for Apple to shed a product line that doesn't add to the company's overall value chain. Apple is a provider of client products. Apple is a consumer electronics company that also provides content. That's where their focus needs to be.

Apple's internal IT and data center needs are provided by a hodge-podge of IBM/AIX, Sun/Solaris, Red Hat Linux, customized UNIX, Oracle, SAP, even Windows, etc. These are systems that would cost tens of millions of dollars. Just do a search of Apple's job listings that Apple is trying to fill on the IT side and there is hardly any mention of the X-Serve or the Mac OS X Server at all. It's mainly heavy duty enterprise backend stuff dominated by IBM, Linux, SAP and Oracle/Sun.

Apple's push into the enterprise is for the adoption of the iPhone, iPad and, to a degree, Macs, but it's mainly about mobile. Apple hired Unisys to help large enterprises integrate the mobile devices into their IT infrastructure. Again, it's about the client side, not the server backend. Apple is not going to compete with the likes IBM, HP, Fujitsu, NEC, Dell and Sun, etc on this end. What is the point? It's just not Apple's area of expertise.

What value would Apple add on the server side when cheap generic Wintel or Linux machines can do much more for much less? Industrial design, the look and feel, the user experience and the ecosystem mean nothing in this space. Let's remember what happened to Sun. The server machines have become commoditized. That's why the likes of IBM, HP and Dell are focusing on software, storage, networking equipment, and services like consultation and systems integration. They can't grow or rely on the increasingly thin margins of the server hardware. And unlike on the consumer client side of things, Apple has absolutely nothing to add to the value chain there.
post #183 of 333
Maybe a new thin Mac Pro form factor change on the horizon? Could be an interesting first calendar quarter.
post #184 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

We ( the company I work for ) recently installed 250 Xserves for a mission critical project in the Oil Sands of Alberta; we could not be happier with the results.

Security of the OS is second to non right now, and the labour cost was cut 77% after replacing Windows Server and our systems have been on an unprecedented 100% up time from where we were before.

I sure hope that Apple will licence out OS X Server after this fiasco is over with.

Mac Pros use up more space but they can be used instead of the XServe:



The dimensions of the XServe and Mac Pro respectively are:

1.73" x 17.6" x 30"
8.1" x 20.1" x 18.7"

So if you assume the depth difference (17.6 vs 20.1) to be negligible, you can fit 4 XServes where 1 Mac Pro is going by the smallest dimension but you can fit nearly two Mac Pros along the longest side so realistically, you are only going to get around double the amount of XServes in the same space.

All Apple has to do is shrink down the Mac Pro:



Then the space saving is negligible. If they make the handles removable using wing-nuts on the inside, you save even more space. The payoff is huge because if you need to sell on a server, your market is much bigger as you can sell to people who need desktops and vice versa. It also increases sales volume of the Mac Pro, which should help drive costs down a bit and make support better.

The Mini is ok as a server but they really need to make those hard drives easy to upgrade. The XServe was a nicely designed piece of hardware but I think it makes sense for them to kill it off. I would really like to see them focus some more on the Mac Pro design.
post #185 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Learn the origins of such paraphrasing that is done for comic effect. They will show up again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE 2) Saying that satellite computing devices will outnumber typical PCs is not some farfetched notion. iOS devices (which you refer to as iToys) already outnumber the number of Macs sold by 6 to 1. If we look at all other major PC makers and MS, they are all focusing their attention on satellite computing.

3) Dicks statement isnt saying that desktop computers will go away completely, but that our reliance on them as our primary means of communicating digitally will wane. This is the nature of all tech. Paradigm shifts do happen and with mobile computing getting more robust there simply is less need for the average person to have PC in every room. We already had this shift from desktops to notebooks, now were seeing this with handheld devices that suit the majority of casual computing needs.

4) I predict well see an upsurge of desktops as the single, powerful, stationary computer, with multiple smartphones and tablets in a household serving a multitude of satellite computing needs. Even the TV will get involved in future of computing.

'computers' will go back to being in the hands of those that truly need them and most of the population that never should have had one in the first place will move on to the devices designed for them.
post #186 of 333
I for one will mourn the dismantling of Apple's vast enterprise presence, with legions of Xserve admins left homeless and destitute. Entire businesses are likely to collapse overnight, as they scramble to replace their Xserve based infrastructure. Indeed, the US economy may well suffer a lethal shock as the underpinnings of its digital commerce are cruelly yanked away by the capricious martinets of Cupertino.

Truly, this move will be remembered as the day Apple once and finally jumped the shark, and began its descent into irrelevance. Without its mighty Xserve line, how can anyone ever again purchase an Apple computer without a deep, deep sense of shame, and the suspicion that that very machine will be discontinued and rendered inoperable before they can even get it home? Or that they'll be mocked en route by fat, sweaty IT people for trafficking in hardware without a relationship to the beloved "big iron" that swells their pants with pride?

Apple, Doomed™ again and for all time. And also, at this point, apparently, sort of effeminate.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #187 of 333
Does anyone know what they are using in Apples billion dollar server farm in NC? I can't see Apple loading that thing with Dells.

I own two xserves, I am very happy with there performance. Hopefully this will lead to a new product, smaller, faster, cooler, smarter. I hate for Apple to abandon the whole sector when it seems there is abundant opportunities for integration with their mobile products with business.
post #188 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Maybe they'll introduce a new Mac Pro which just happens to be 1U or 2U...


lol

Exactly what I thought. The current Mac Pro design has been around for a long time. Maybe thin with light peak for most peripherals. Who knows, maybe it will even drop the CDROM drive. OS media is now coming on flash disk after all.
post #189 of 333
So it turns out the fundamentalist Windo-philes were right all along: Apple is primarily interested in producing gorgeous high-profit consumer gadgets and doesn't take the needs of IT pros seriously.

OS X Server has long been the neglected stepsister of Apple's lineup. Now that there will be no grownup hardware on which to run it, it's not hard to see where it's headed... out of the cinders, out of the kitchen, off the estate, and into an unmarked grave.

Ah well... As it turns out, learning OS X Server was really about learning a rather restricted, overpriced Unix box with a few not terribly powerful, notably unreliable admin interfaces on a horribly slow development cycle. New releases that decrease functionality, bugs that linger for years, and a billion ads for one iThingie after another on the side of every city bus on the planet...

It's an abusive relationship I should have dumped years ago.

Not that I'm going to thank 'em for forcing the issue.
post #190 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

So it turns out the fundamentalist Windo-philes were right all along: Apple is primarily interested in producing gorgeous high-profit consumer gadgets and doesn't take the needs of IT pros seriously.

OS X Server has long been the neglected stepsister of Apple's lineup. Now that there will be no grownup hardware on which to run it, it's not hard to see where it's headed... out of the cinders, out of the kitchen, off the estate, and into an unmarked grave.

Ah well... As it turns out, learning OS X Server was really about learning a rather restricted, overpriced Unix box with a few not terribly powerful, notably unreliable admin interfaces on a horribly slow development cycle. New releases that decrease functionality, bugs that linger for years, and a billion ads for one iThingie after another on the side of every city bus on the planet...

It's an abusive relationship I should have dumped years ago.

Not that I'm going to thank 'em for forcing the issue.

I'm sure we will know more in the next few months. Apple is certainly not abandoning the enterprise. They may just be stepping out of the server room as enterprise-class appliance servers (clustered storage, SANs, etc) can fill the need. It remains to be seen if OS X Server will remain in Lion for those instances where it makes sense or if OS X client may gain a few server-like features. The *real* needs of IT pros is on the client side. Apple has done a great job with AD integration, management, and other enterprise-class features.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a more rack-friendly Mac Pro form factor coming out too. In fact I could see the video editors out there mounting them in the AV racks at their edit stations too.
post #191 of 333
Apples decision to discontinue the Xserve is probably the worst decision Apple made in along time, and it will come back to bite them hard I hope.

If Apple thinks that the Mac Mini Server can be compared to the Xserve, then they dont have a clue what the Xserve means to the IT world. First, the Mac Mini doesnt even come close to the processing power of the Xserve. Not to mention, the RAM in the Mac Mini maxes out at 8 GB whereas the Xserve is 96 GB with 10.6 installed. Then there is the hard drive configuration. Albeit you can mirror two hard drives, that is not the same as RAID 5; you will have to go to some external storage device after you max the internal hard drive out at 500 GB. If you append an external storage device, then you can only concatenate it to the Mini via USB or Firewire; both are considered bad practices for corporate use. There are many other technical disadvantages for the Mac Mini Server when compared to the Xserve when it is used in a corporate environment; however, when it comes to servers of any kind, you dont want it to shout out Im a single point of failure. The Mac Mini Server says that loud and clear in every aspect of its makeup.

Apple is also saying that the Mac Pro is an alternative to the Xserve. I really do like the Mac Pro. It is a well built and rock-solid computer with many upgradeable components. With more internal drive bays than the Xserve, and you can also add a solid-state drive to it, the Mac Pro has a better internal storage option and a higher storage capacity than the Xserve. Processors in both computers are tit for tat as well. So why not the Mac Pro as an alternative to the Xserve? It is not practical when it comes to mounting it in a rack. With a rack mount kit, you can lay the Mac Pro horizontally and that will use about seven units of rack space. If you left it standing vertically in the rack, you will use about 12U of rack space. Therefore, I hope you have lots of racks because if you have as many servers as I do along with other devices such as a 4U tape library, Xserve RAID (which was another good product Apple did away with), and APC battery backups, you will run out of space fast. The Mac Pro does not have lights out management capabilities. In its current form factor, the Mac Pro can only have one power supply. The absence of LOM and dual power supplies make the Mac Pro inferior to the Xserve. Again, as good as the Mac Pro is, it is not a good corporate solution as an alternative to the Xserve. It does not fit in the server room.

I conclude this by saying to Apple, if you are going to do away with the Xserve than you might as well slap all who supported the Mac in businesses, schools, colleges, and government in the face. Not only are you slapping us in the face, but you are putting a lot of doubt in our minds about Apples long term plans for Mac OS X Server software. Give me a good reason why I should continue down Apples server road when you are continually discontinuing what I will call your enterprise product line? Right now I cant trust Apple on whether they will someday discontinue server software or some other product I rely on in business. I really feel as if Apple just called me STUPID for buying their product.
post #192 of 333
Just spoke with our DAM vendors and their linux version of the software is pretty advanced now compared to the Mac version. Plus there are some solid AFP services for linux out that makes this transition a little better. By the time we have to replace our DAM system, this will hurt a lot less.
post #193 of 333
Awful time to kill this product with such short notice. This is budget time and the MacPro and mini aren't suitable Xserve replacements in our environment. Globally, I don't fault Apple on this decision - it's theirs to make. However, in my little world, this means a scramble on our near and long term strategies. We're big enough to have plenty of Xserves, but too small to get any good 'NDA' strategic info from Apple. Not knowing what's on the horizon makes this all the more painful.

Certainly, I should be hammering out a plan for the future of Apple in our server room (and by extension, within our entire organization) instead of wasting time posting in a forum while 'on the clock.' Perhaps I'll feel better after some venting.

In the realm of speculation (outside of the burdens of my budgeting responsibilities), I'm very interested to see what the next move will be. I expect the Xserve's demise, as the Xserve RAID before it, are part of a larger strategy. It's exciting to consider the likes of HP (any good Tier 1 vendor) offering an Apple-licensed OS X solution - be it a direct install with a real EFI, or within a bundled VM. That seems to be a popular concept in this forum and fits with the Apple/Promise scenario.

Using Apple hardware, I could imagine the MacMini as a variation of the blade server concept. I picture a Mini with Light Peak that slides into a rack-mountable docking-chasis. Thus, instead of redundancy in the form of a robust single server, you get redundancy with distributed VMs on swappable Minis.

I'd be more jazzed to see where this news is really leading if the announcement itself wasn't such a poop on my parade. Yeah, I didn't have anything else to do.

I see some people post the word 'fail' as some cocky judgement of Apple's decision-making. In this case, I'm afraid the risk of failure falls squarely on my adaptability within the realm of my platform-choice.
post #194 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by signguysigns View Post

Apple’s decision to discontinue the Xserve is probably the worst decision Apple made in along time, and it will come back to bite them – hard I hope.

If Apple thinks that the Mac Mini Server can be compared to the Xserve, then they don’t have a clue what the Xserve means to the IT world. First, the Mac Mini doesn’t even come close to the processing power of the Xserve. Not to mention, the RAM in the Mac Mini maxes out at 8 GB whereas the Xserve is 96 GB with 10.6 installed. Then there is the hard drive configuration. Albeit you can mirror two hard drives, that is not the same as RAID 5; you will have to go to some external storage device after you max the internal hard drive out at 500 GB. If you append an external storage device, then you can only concatenate it to the Mini via USB or Firewire; both are considered bad practices for corporate use. There are many other technical disadvantages for the Mac Mini Server when compared to the Xserve when it is used in a corporate environment; however, when it comes to servers of any kind, you don’t want it to shout out “I’m a single point of failure.” The Mac Mini Server says that loud and clear in every aspect of its makeup.

Apple is also saying that the Mac Pro is an alternative to the Xserve. I really do like the Mac Pro. It is a well built and rock-solid computer with many upgradeable components. With more internal drive bays than the Xserve, and you can also add a solid-state drive to it, the Mac Pro has a better internal storage option and a higher storage capacity than the Xserve. Processors in both computers are tit for tat as well. So why not the Mac Pro as an alternative to the Xserve? It is not practical when it comes to mounting it in a rack. With a rack mount kit, you can lay the Mac Pro horizontally and that will use about seven units of rack space. If you left it standing vertically in the rack, you will use about 12U of rack space. Therefore, I hope you have lots of racks because if you have as many servers as I do along with other devices such as a 4U tape library, Xserve RAID (which was another good product Apple did away with), and APC battery backups, you will run out of space fast. The Mac Pro does not have lights out management capabilities. In its current form factor, the Mac Pro can only have one power supply. The absence of LOM and dual power supplies make the Mac Pro inferior to the Xserve. Again, as good as the Mac Pro is, it is not a good corporate solution as an alternative to the Xserve. It does not fit in the server room.

I conclude this by saying to Apple, if you are going to do away with the Xserve than you might as well slap all who supported the Mac in businesses, schools, colleges, and government in the face. Not only are you slapping us in the face, but you are putting a lot of doubt in our minds about Apple’s long term plans for Mac OS X Server software. Give me a good reason why I should continue down Apple’s server road when you are continually discontinuing what I will call your enterprise product line? Right now I can’t trust Apple on whether they will someday discontinue server software or some other product I rely on in business. I really feel as if Apple just called me STUPID for buying their product.

Where the hell have you and the rest of the idiots been.

Apple announced their new Mac Pro Server early this morning. http://www.apple.com/xserve/

And even AppleInsider published the story at 9:40 AM:
Apple offers new Mac Pro Server configuration to replace Xserve http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ce_xserve.html
post #195 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by lylehm View Post

Awful time to kill this product with such short notice. This is budget time and the MacPro and mini aren't suitable Xserve replacements in our environment. Globally, I don't fault Apple on this decision - it's theirs to make. However, in my little world, this means a scramble on our near and long term strategies. We're big enough to have plenty of Xserves, but too small to get any good 'NDA' strategic info from Apple. Not knowing what's on the horizon makes this all the more painful.

Certainly, I should be hammering out a plan for the future of Apple in our server room (and by extension, within our entire organization) instead of wasting time posting in a forum while 'on the clock.' Perhaps I'll feel better after some venting.

In the realm of speculation (outside of the burdens of my budgeting responsibilities), I'm very interested to see what the next move will be. I expect the Xserve's demise, as the Xserve RAID before it, are part of a larger strategy. It's exciting to consider the likes of HP (any good Tier 1 vendor) offering an Apple-licensed OS X solution - be it a direct install with a real EFI, or within a bundled VM. That seems to be a popular concept in this forum and fits with the Apple/Promise scenario.

Using Apple hardware, I could imagine the MacMini as a variation of the blade server concept. I picture a Mini with Light Peak that slides into a rack-mountable docking-chasis. Thus, instead of redundancy in the form of a robust single server, you get redundancy with distributed VMs on swappable Minis.

I'd be more jazzed to see where this news is really leading if the announcement itself wasn't such a poop on my parade. Yeah, I didn't have anything else to do.

I see some people post the word 'fail' as some cocky judgement of Apple's decision-making. In this case, I'm afraid the risk of failure falls squarely on my adaptability within the realm of my platform-choice.

Nothing to worry about it. Buy an Xserve if you need it now. Otherwise, wait until spring. I'm sure Apple has some surprise for us. Besides, there are enterprise-class alternatives for things like AFP and management. I am guessing that Mac Minis and a new form factor Mac Pro might be part of Apples strategy. Remember that Apple has not issued a press release yet. And as far as I know, nobody from the OS X server team has been fired or relocated. If the changes were that drastic, we would be hearing something from Cupertino.
post #196 of 333
Ok, so I'm an ACSA supporting Xserves for a Fortune 100 company. I also own an ACN supporting SMB customers. I have mixed feelings. But Apple, really, WTF?

Enterprise customers need rack mount servers with redundancy and lights-out remote management. My data center is a 15-minute drive from my office, so I rely on ILOM almost exclusively. A rack full of Mac Pro's (time to buy some more racks, I guess) does nothing for me.

And talk about a pain in the ass if I have Mac Pro's sitting two or three to a shelf (or on their side) and I need to pull a drive. Tell me how I am supposed to service the machine if I have to take it almost completely out of the rack to swap drives.

What about ILOM? Apple really needs to make some add-on ILOM board at the very minimum. Especially for the smaller non-Enterprise customers.

We had plans to expand our Mac OS X Server footprint extensively in 2011. Now, that is going present a huge challenge for us in the data center. I can't go to Facilities and ask for twice the floor space.

Dumb, Apple. Real dumb. Just when Enterprise are finally starting to look at Mac solutions
post #197 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Where the hell have you and the rest of the idiots been.

Apple announced their new Mac Pro Server early this morning. http://www.apple.com/xserve/

And even AppleInsider published the story at 9:40 AM:
Apple offers new Mac Pro Server configuration to replace Xserve http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ce_xserve.html

Please do not say anything about things that you have no clue about or work with - A MacPro have not any redundant power supply and LOM... Also it´s to big for server racks. 2/3 MacPros in the same space as 12 Xserves

And yes I have installed a lot of MacPros during the years as Mac OS X servers for companies without racks. I know they work but not in Data Centers and in larger companies.

This announcement is just a MAcPro with Mac OS X Server preinstalled. Been available for years...
post #198 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

...NeXT ended up earning hundreds of millions of dollars for Jobs (billions if you count his profits on Apple stock)...

With failures like those, who needs winners?

Yes. Jobs earned millions of dollars. Not the people who worked at NeXT and bought into his BS vision and most importantly not the consumers who actually bought the machines and were then abandoned.

But hey, in your eyes as long as Steve makes money it's all good.

Killing off their Enterprise group just shows that Apple is well on their way to abandoning the Mac and instead focusing on cheap, disposable, gadgets as their sole reason for existance. Sad.
post #199 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

...We ( the company I work for ) recently installed 250 Xserves for a mission critical project in the Oil Sands of Alberta; we could not be happier with the results...

Hey what company? I used to work at Syncrude. I would have been thrilled if they had used Apple products when I worked in their IT department.
post #200 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

Ah, finally a refreshing voice of reason on this convoluted thread.

That's very kind. Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

I never understood why Apple even bothered with the X-Serve and it makes perfect sense for Apple to shed a product line that doesn't add to the company's overall value chain. Apple is a provider of client products. Apple is a consumer electronics company that also provides content. That's where their focus needs to be.

It seemed neat at first but, yes, odd. Apple has definitely changed since that time. They recognize this and are adjusting accordingly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

Apple's internal IT and data center needs are provided by a hodge-podge of IBM/AIX, Sun/Solaris, Red Hat Linux, customized UNIX, Oracle, SAP, even Windows, etc. These are systems that would cost tens of millions of dollars. Just do a search of Apple's job listings that Apple is trying to fill on the IT side and there is hardly any mention of the X-Serve or the Mac OS X Server at all. It's mainly heavy duty enterprise backend stuff dominated by IBM, Linux, SAP and Oracle/Sun.

Exactly! Just like every other large (Fortune 500 or 1000) corporation. I don't know why people don't get this. Fundamentally this is an issue of comparative advantage. These other companies have a comparative advantage in creating, delivering, maintaining and selling enterprise systems. This is not Apple's core competency. Apple's management is being very wise in recognizing their core competencies and focusing on those. Enterprise and data center servers are not it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

Apple's push into the enterprise is for the adoption of the iPhone, iPad and, to a degree, Macs, but it's mainly about mobile. Apple hired Unisys to help large enterprises integrate the mobile devices into their IT infrastructure. Again, it's about the client side, not the server backend. Apple is not going to compete with the likes IBM, HP, Fujitsu, NEC, Dell and Sun, etc on this end. What is the point? It's just not Apple's area of expertise.

Right again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

What value would Apple add on the server side when cheap generic Wintel or Linux machines can do much more for much less? Industrial design, the look and feel, the user experience and the ecosystem mean nothing in this space. Let's remember what happened to Sun. The server machines have become commoditized. That's why the likes of IBM, HP and Dell are focusing on software, storage, networking equipment, and services like consultation and systems integration. They can't grow or rely on the increasingly thin margins of the server hardware. And unlike on the consumer client side of things, Apple has absolutely nothing to add to the value chain there.

And again.

Apple is a consumer electronics company. Let's accept this fact. They do it incredibly well. Could their skills in making life easier also be applied to the corporate IT arena? Sure. But nobody in that arena really cares. I work in IT and this is my experience. Sad? Sure. True? Mostly.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple to discontinue Xserve after Jan. 31, 2011