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Apple offers new Mac Pro Server configuration to replace Xserve

post #1 of 199
Thread Starter 
Apple on Friday added a new server option to its Mac Pro lineup Friday, with a $2,999 system that is designed to replace the Xserve hardware which will be discontinued in early 2011.

The Mac Pro Server comes with one 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor, 8GB of RAM, and two 1TB hard drives. It also has Mac OS X Server unlimited with a client license, and an ATI HD 5770 graphics card with 1GB of GDDR5 memory.

The new configuration starts at $2,999 and ships in 2 to 4 weeks. Apple's previously available quad-core and 8-core Mac Pro systems ship within 24 hours, while the 12-core model takes 3 to 5 days to ship.

The new Mac Pro Server can also be upgraded, with custom build-to-order options offering up to two 2.93GHz six-core Intel Xeon "Westmere" processors, for a total of 12 processing cores at an added cost of $3,475. Users looking for the best possible system can also add $3,400 to the price and get 32GB of RAM.

The new hardware became available Friday after Apple quietly announced on its website that it would no longer offer its Xserve rackmounted servers after Jan. 31, 2011. New Xserver orders will be accepted through that date, and the hardware will be backed by Apple's standard one-year warranty.

Apple also issued documentation aimed at helping customers transition from Xserve to Apple's remaining server options, the Mac mini Server and Mac Pro Server. Apple's guide notes that the 12-core Mac Pro with Snow Leopard Server meets or exceeds the performance of the baseline Xserve hardware.

However, while Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server is much less powerful than Xserve, Apple's smallest desktop footprint has been the company's most popular server system since its introduction in the fall of 2009.
post #2 of 199
Does anyone else think that the discontinuation of the XServe product is a harbinger of Apple's push into cloud computing? While a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro is great for typical office networking needs, it isn't a great solution for large-scale hosting. But if Apple is moving in that direction with it's new data center, perhaps that should be less of a concern. Thoughts?
post #3 of 199
And I'm going to jam that into the 2U space in my rack how????

Yet another boneheaded move in a string of boneheaded moves by Apple...
post #4 of 199
Of course the new Mac Pro meets or exceeds the specs of the current Xserves - because they didn't rev the Xserve hardware with the new CPUs!

I think the actual plan is to take Mac Pros and have customers run them through the Reality Distortion Field to shrink them to a 1U format. \
post #5 of 199
At least they are being up front at this point about their lack of interest in enterprise support. When they put out an actual rack mount server one may begin to believe that Apple cares about working with big business. That would be a horrible misconception. Having worked with their support to try to fix a bug in OS X Server I discovered that their techs are more interested in trying to convince you that you must be doing something wrong, and that Apple employees seem to be severely allergic to the word bug.

They have shifted their focus back to what they are actually good at: disposable consumer electronics.
post #6 of 199
This isn't clear for me... Why on the hardware that is intended to work as a server there is a video card with 1Gb of RAM ???? Looks like the new server standard for installing OS
post #7 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post


Yet another boneheaded move in a string of boneheaded moves by Apple...

Yes... and because of it they are doing so poorly. Best you give them a call to make them aware of their failures.
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post #8 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Yes... and because of it they are doing so poorly. Best you give them a call to make them aware of their failures.

Enjoy playing Bejeweled on your iPhone when you're forced to switch to Windows when Apple drops their PC business altogether....
post #9 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

And I'm going to jam that into the 2U space in my rack how????

Yet another boneheaded move in a string of boneheaded moves by Apple...

Boneheaded? Apple doesn't think so. And their record is pretty good since Jobs returned.

I really hoped that the Xserve would do well in the enterprise environment, but it never took off. My experience has been that the people who are running large enterprise server environments aren't likely to change. Furthermore, the value of Mac OS X Server is ease of use and ability for even non-geeks to use it effectively. That has no value at all to the geeks who run the Enterprise server rooms.

Mac OS X Server may do better in small business environments or in the departmental server market (where the rack mounted design is a negative rather than a positive). The success of the Mini server supports that.

It just doesn't look like customers were willing to buy a Mac in rack server format. Apple is smart enough to recognize that they can't win every battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stju View Post

This isn't clear for me... Why on the hardware that is intended to work as a server there is a video card with 1Gb of RAM ???? Looks like the new server standard for installing OS

Has anyone told you about OpenCL?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #10 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

Does anyone else think that the discontinuation of the XServe product is a harbinger of Apple's push into cloud computing? While a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro is great for typical office networking needs, it isn't a great solution for large-scale hosting. But if Apple is moving in that direction with it's new data center, perhaps that should be less of a concern. Thoughts?

Moving to the cloud? How about moving to iOS? There will never be an OS X 11. Apple will eventually move everything to iOS.

The last step will be announcing iOS development tools that run under Windows. It won't happen for awhile though. I would guess OS X will go the way of OS 9 by the end of 2012, maybe 2013.

-kpluck

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post #11 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Yes... and because of it they are doing so poorly. Best you give them a call to make them aware of their failures.

It wasn't long ago Apple was touting the infinite scalability of OS X server and how it was the best choice for grids. Being the best in the consumer market does not make them a success in the enterprise as you infer. Their servers are a miserable failure throughout education and enterprise clients, regardless of your snotty attitude.
post #12 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Yes... and because of it they are doing so poorly. Best you give them a call to make them aware of their failures.

It's funny that you think people will still make applications for OS X or use it at all if they don't have servers to run their business or computers to test them on.
post #13 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Boneheaded? Apple doesn't think so. And their record is pretty good since Jobs returned.

I really hoped that the Xserve would do well in the enterprise environment, but it never took off. My experience has been that the people who are running large enterprise server environments aren't likely to change. Furthermore, the value of Mac OS X Server is ease of use and ability for even non-geeks to use it effectively. That has no value at all to the geeks who run the Enterprise server rooms.

Mac OS X Server may do better in small business environments or in the departmental server market (where the rack mounted design is a negative rather than a positive). The success of the Mini server supports that.

It just doesn't look like customers were willing to buy a Mac in rack server format. Apple is smart enough to recognize that they can't win every battle.



Has anyone told you about OpenCL?

xserve's don't scale up

HP/Dell servers can take more hard drives and RAM. with Apple you have to buy more servers which is a lot more expensive

and profit margins are dropping on servers. the profits are in services now.
post #14 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Moving to the cloud? How about moving to iOS? There will never be an OS X 11. Apple will eventually move everything to iOS.

The last step will be announcing iOS development tools that run under Windows. It won't happen for awhile though. I would guess OS X will go the way of OS 9 by the end of 2012, maybe 2013.

-kpluck

iOS is OS X

at work we've started to identify personal crap that people bring in and iPad's come up as OS X 10.5 devices
post #15 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

It wasn't long ago Apple was touting the infinite scalability of OS X server and how it was the best choice for grids. Being the best in the consumer market does not make them a success in the enterprise as you infer. Their servers are a miserable failure throughout education and enterprise clients, regardless of your snotty attitude.

Who the hell inferred anything about success in the enterprise.

I guess you're inferring that Jobs and his team make their decisions by throwing darts at a board.
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post #16 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's funny that you think people will still make applications for OS X or use it at all if they don't have servers to run their business or computers to test them on.

Like I said... let Jobs know what a shitty Job he's doing at Apple.
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post #17 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

xserve's don't scale up

HP/Dell servers can take more hard drives and RAM. with Apple you have to buy more servers which is a lot more expensive

and profit margins are dropping on servers. the profits are in services now.

The only thing nice was the 19" mount.

What was the reason for putting everything on a single box?
Just buy more Mac minis.

They do fit nicely on 19" shelves.
post #18 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Enjoy playing Bejeweled on your iPhone when you're forced to switch to Windows when Apple drops their PC business altogether....

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Apple leaves the room when there is no money to be made. As long as desktops are around and selling, Apple will be making them. They will also likely be making the "best of class" in that market and capturing the top-end money as they do in most markets they play in.

If Apple is leaving the server hardware market, they are leaving it because it makes no money for them and doesn't fit into their strategic plans to the point where it's worth losing the money they aren't making. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the server hardware market is kind of a dying market anyway? IMO all indicators from the last five years or so are that virtualisation is the way forward and that server hardware has become commodified.
post #19 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Like I said... let Jobs know what a shitty Job he's doing at Apple.

Nope, desktop app developers will do that on their own after the death of the XServe. I give it three to five years before Apple is forced to make a new XServe and Mac Pro with obscenely competitive specs/pricing to get people back before the OS becomes a graveyard.
post #20 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

Does anyone else think that the discontinuation of the XServe product is a harbinger of Apple's push into cloud computing? While a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro is great for typical office networking needs, it isn't a great solution for large-scale hosting. But if Apple is moving in that direction with it's new data center, perhaps that should be less of a concern. Thoughts?

Apple is definitely moving to the Cloud in light of the ongoing "free" mobileme and, as you mentioned, the new data center. Amazon is earning money for offering computing power, why don't Apple do the same business? (especially Mac OS Server is more user friendly and easier to maintain) As the most successful mobile device company, cloud computing is definitely a way to enhance what an App can do in the future. I am looking forward to it, actually.

"IF" Apple became one of the players of cloud computing business, there will be increasingly no need to buy Xserver. Two things left to do are sync and backup.

Plus, Apple does have pretty impressive streaming Technics embedded in Safari and Apple TV. Better streaming, better cloud computing experience? ~ huh ~ This is full of imaginations.
post #21 of 199
has made a whole hell of a lot of decisions like this that have pissed off a lot of folks that have had their own sacred cow gored in the process. Predicted to fold and fall flat on their face how many times by how many people?

But ,... the purpose of a business is not to protect sacred cows but to make money.

How much cash do they have in the bank now?

Market cap 2nd on the globe only to Exxon/Mobil?

Sure ..MS has 90% of the globes operating system usage share ...but ... who is bigger now?


Says something about tough decisions that piss people off but get results.
post #22 of 199
One more step on the long march towards a unified OSX with iOS. Eventually iOS will be it. Lion will be the last OSX major release.
post #23 of 199
Here's an out-there hypothesis, that is almost certainly not true, but fun to think about.

If I recall correctly, it's been the case for a while now that the biggest customer for Apple Xserve is Apple itself, they use more than anyone else. That's interesting, because what is Apple doing right now? Deploying a billion dollar data centre presumably stuffed full of servers. If Apple is the biggest customer of Xserves, and Apple require a lot of servers to put in one of the biggest data centres on the planet, might that possibly be a reason for a drastically reduced supply of Xserves in the coming months? Reason enough to actually choke off the supply of Xserves to other customers? Could this discontinuation actually be a temporary glitch while Apple turn their server manufacturing clout inwards, perhaps to be resumed once the data centre is operational?

If Apple, the dictionary definition of a vertically integrated company, has expanding server needs then it seems crazy that they'd stop producing their own servers.

Food for thought.

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post #24 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

The only thing nice was the 19" mount.

What was the reason for putting everything on a single box?
Just buy more Mac minis.

They do fit nicely on 19" shelves.

Or in racks. http://img-cluster1.dannychoo.com/cg...1c7cbaa572.jpg

Apparently there are over 10,000 Mac Minis used as such in Vegas.

Would anybody like to bet against the IT guys that made those decisions? Like the idiots in the last forum.
post #25 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stju View Post

This isn't clear for me... Why on the hardware that is intended to work as a server there is a video card with 1Gb of RAM ???? Looks like the new server standard for installing OS

I guess it is just because the 5770 becomes a standard card (ex: GTX 120 for Mac Pro 09'). so, why not?

It is a workstation, and usually a workstation has graphic card.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workstation
post #26 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope, desktop app developers will do that on their own after the death of the XServe. I give it three to five years before Apple is forced to make a new XServe and Mac Pro with obscenely competitive specs/pricing to get people back before the OS becomes a graveyard.

In three to five years Apple won't give a rat's ass about desktop app developers.
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post #27 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Like I said... let Jobs know what a shitty Job he's doing at Apple.

I know, I know.. Jobs is infallible. He is simply incapable of error and we should all set-aside critical judgment and powers of reasoning.

Clap, clap.
post #28 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post

I know, I know.. Jobs is infallible. He is simply incapable of error and we should all set-aside critical judgment and powers of reasoning.

Clap, clap.

It looks like you've set-aside critical judgment and powers of reasoning regardless.
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post #29 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

One more step on the long march towards a unified OSX with iOS. Eventually iOS will be it. Lion will be the last OSX major release.

Ah... finally... someone who bet on the computer over the typewriter and adding machine.
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post #30 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope, desktop app developers will do that on their own after the death of the XServe. I give it three to five years before Apple is forced to make a new XServe and Mac Pro with obscenely competitive specs/pricing to get people back before the OS becomes a graveyard.

What the heck are you talking about? There is zero "halo effect" between XServe (and the Mac OS server business in general) and consumer Mac OS X (i.e., the OS that everyone cares about).

If Apple wasn't making money in the server business, or if they weren't very good at it, or it was an unnecessary distraction it was a smart decision to get out of that market. I go to major IT conferences and no one ever mentions Apple in the context of servers. The only people who care about this decision are the relatively few organizations that invested in Apple servers. Everyone in the business would have told them they were making an unconventional and risky choice. They made a risky choice and now they are probably upset about it. Oh well, sucks to be them, but they probably represent < 1% of Apple's revenue so no one else should care.
post #31 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

One more step on the long march towards a unified OSX with iOS. Eventually iOS will be it. Lion will be the last OSX major release.

I'd bet money against that proposition. The iPhone was successful because it has a completely different UX than Mac (or anything that came before). iOS isn't "better" than Mac OS X; it's a different OS for a different purpose.
post #32 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

There will never be an OS X 11.

-kpluck

Because Operating System 10 11 makes no sense whatsoever.
post #33 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

The only thing nice was the 19" mount.

What was the reason for putting everything on a single box?
Just buy more Mac minis.

They do fit nicely on 19" shelves.

except that mac mini's have no management capabilities and no RAID or hot swappable drives

with our HP servers i have console access via my iphone. i can even remotely press the power button on a server via my iphone and mobile safari. they don't even need KVM's

a 1U HP server can take up to 8 hard drives and 192GB of RAM. you'll need a whole rack full of mac minis for that. by the time you pay more money for power, KVM switches, data center space, more racks, you have wasted a lot of money compared to buying Dell/HP/IBM servers

and $1500 will buy me a 5 year 24x7 4 hour warranty from HP. with a mac mini i have to take it to an apple store for simple things like replacing hard drives
post #34 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Or in racks. http://img-cluster1.dannychoo.com/cg...1c7cbaa572.jpg

Apparently there are over 10,000 Mac Minis used as such in Vegas.

Would anybody like to bet against the IT guys that made those decisions? Like the idiots in the last forum.

that picture was from 2008

VMWare and hardware in general has grown a lot in the last 3 years. i bet this is all being transitioned to one vmware cluster if it hasn't been done already
post #35 of 199
Not sure why there is a discussion of IOS replacing Mac OS X. Such clueless comments...

The Mac OS will be alive and kicking as long as Apple will produce computers, which I imagine will be for a very long time. No cloud service will change that.

That said, the demise of Xserve's have been in the making for some time. Apple must have recognized that the majority of Apple server installs were for workgroup sizes where a desktop form factor makes more sense than rack mount servers.

I was always hoping for Apple to come up with a compelling 2U offering since that is the sweet spot for servers, along with better storage options.

We are running a mixed environment with a nearly 2 dozen Xserve's, still a few Xserve Raids and about the same amount of Dell's (using Redhat Linux), which I hate to say, are much more advanced.

And AppleCare for Xserve's have been a joke, especially since they cut down support from 24/7 to 8am to 6pm on weekdays (or something like it). Talk about mission critical.

Plus in a business environment, Mac OS X server components or settings have to be configured and updated beyond what server admin or Apple software updates support (like version updates for PCI compliance, mail configuration, ssh, etc.)

So you are back to a command line anyway.
post #36 of 199
Just what happen if Next Mac Pro can be Rackmounted with some magic?

The most important question is what will Apple use for their Own Datacenter. They Definitely wont be using their old Xserve. A Pile a Mac Mini, or something big coming up?
post #37 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

Does anyone else think that the discontinuation of the XServe product is a harbinger of Apple's push into cloud computing? While a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro is great for typical office networking needs, it isn't a great solution for large-scale hosting. But if Apple is moving in that direction with it's new data center, perhaps that should be less of a concern. Thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing!!
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post #38 of 199
The Xserves have served their strategic purpose. Apple will survive. Move along.
post #39 of 199
Mein Gott. This is laughable. It appears Apple has completely given up all hope of enterprise/datacenter inroads, and is strictly going for the SMB market with the MMS and MPS. Unless they license out OS X Server, probably on a specific platform (VMware? Parallels?), this is it for OS X in the server room.
post #40 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Apple leaves the room when there is no money to be made. As long as desktops are around and selling, Apple will be making them. They will also likely be making the "best of class" in that market and capturing the top-end money as they do in most markets they play in.

If Apple is leaving the server hardware market, they are leaving it because it makes no money for them and doesn't fit into their strategic plans to the point where it's worth losing the money they aren't making. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the server hardware market is kind of a dying market anyway? IMO all indicators from the last five years or so are that virtualisation is the way forward and that server hardware has become commodified.

As usual you have cut through the crap and delivered a thoughtful response to a snarky comment.
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