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Steve Ballmer cashes $1.3B in Microsoft shares, Apple was given first - Page 2

post #41 of 250
11/6/10 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Right on Mr. Liberal!! That's unfair. The government ought to steal all Microsoft profits and give them to you from FREE Healthcare, Housing, and food stamps!!!

My advice to you - if you want what Jobs, Gates, and Ballmer has get off of your lazy ass and do something. It's NOT unfair. Under capitalism profit goes to achievers,

You're a bum!

Feel better buddy?
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post #42 of 250
11/6/10 at 7:24am
I think this is just another clever decision.
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post #43 of 250
11/6/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

In terms of Kinect, has it ever occurred to anyone here that Apple simply didn't want or care enough about it to make an effort to get it?

It makes for interesting PR to say (after the fact) that the people who turned him down did so out of ignorance or blindness/lack of vision or because they "didn't believe in [me] him."

I think the reason given was Apple demanded that he keep secret about it and sign into a NDA and it was him who rejected Apple.

That's not to say Apple couldn't have turned it down though as Nintendo and Sony reportedly did due to their preference towards one-to-one mapping. Sony even made a website saying they prefer buttons. There were also concerns about cost. Kinect isn't the cheapest accessory device around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler

My advice to you - if you want what Jobs, Gates, and Ballmer has get off of your lazy ass and do something. It's NOT unfair. Under capitalism profit goes to achievers

What has Warren Buffet achieved? Investors sit on their lazy asses and make money from other people's achievements (the working class who have higher tax rates).
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post #44 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Right on Mr. Liberal!! That's unfair. The government ought to steal all Microsoft profits and give them to you from FREE Healthcare, Housing, and food stamps!!!

My advice to you - if you want what Jobs, Gates, and Ballmer has get off of your lazy ass and do something. It's NOT unfair. Under capitalism profit goes to achievers,

You're a bum!

Ah, looks like we have the latest graduate from the Bill O'Reilly School of Polite Discourse with us today.

So let me get this straight:

1. Everyone with whom you disagree is automatically a liberal. Everyone that thinks this way is generally unbalanced.
2. The government doesn't tax people or corporations - it steals from them. And God knows that everyone pays their fair share without cheating or creating loopholes designed specifically for their own purposes, right?
3. Those stolen profits only go to pay for free healthcare, housing and food stamps. Yeah, let's just forget all about those pesky wars and all that infrastructure stuff.
4. If you are not Jobs, Gates or Ballmer then you are a lazy ass that doesn't do anything. Ever volunteer for anything? Ever work for a (gasp!) nonprofit organization?
5. Under capitalism, profit only goes to achievers. Never mind all the "little people" that helped them get there.
6. Anyone who states an opinion other than one that someone else has thought up for you is a bum. Anyone who who makes blanket statements like this without knowing anything about the life of the individual they are referring to, is usually a very angry individual who pouts or shouts when they don't get their way.

If this is a true sampling of how you view the world, then what a sad, sad life you must live.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #45 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

Right on Mr. Liberal!! That's unfair. The government ought to steal all Microsoft profits and give them to you from FREE Healthcare, Housing, and food stamps!!!

...

You're a bum!



"Nope"
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post #46 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

"Nope"

A much better response than mine.

I always forget the part about "when engaging in a battle of wits, it is always polite to make sure your opponent is armed."
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #47 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:27am
By actually reading the article, I see that CNET is merely speculating about the reason or reasons why Ballmer is selling some of his MSFT. But that's apparently more than enough to set off a big political hoo-hah on these boards. The fact is, this is SOP for large shareholders (which come to think of it, describes Ballmer in two ways). A couple of insiders just sold some of their AAPL too. This doesn't mean anything, though some would like read all kinds of motives into it, often to back up their own political views.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #48 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

What has Warren Buffet achieved? Investors sit on their lazy asses and make money from other people's achievements (the working class who have higher tax rates).

I would remind you that Warren Buffet has committed to donate most of his wealth to charity, and has secured promises from 40 other multi-billionaires to do the same.
A is A
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A is A
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post #49 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsydaus View Post

I don't care even if you're SJ himself, the system that allows those kinds of payouts is sickening.

I wonder, if at times, your corporate boss, or just boss, might feel the same way? That is, "sickening to have to make that kind of payout" for your every two weeks "effort" in the form of a paycheck! And God help you if your union and made the claim you stated!

And if you are self employed, you'd be a hypocrite, because you need to make as much payout to cover your business expenses, health care costs, retirement investments, etc. Would you say no to a job request that would pay your self-employed business 1.3 billion? Or would you be laughing all the way to the bank?

If you are of the opinion that Ballmer isn't worth it, well, that probably can be said of any of us at any time, by someone of the same opinion you have now.

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #50 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsydaus View Post

I don't care even if you're SJ himself, the system that allows those kinds of payouts is sickening.

In the same line of reasoning, you probably are also against Michael Phelps' uneven distribution of gold medals. Should he be allowed to keep just one and be required to give his remaining 7 gold medals to the less fortunate athletes?

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post #51 of 250
11/6/10 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Ah, looks like we have the latest graduate from the Bill O'Reilly School of Polite Discourse with us today.

If this is a true sampling of how you view the world, then what a sad, sad life you must live.

Let me guess... You are a graduate of the Keith Olbermann School of Polite Discourse? Tell me... Did you graduate with a Latin Honor of Cum Laud... Er... MSNBC Honor of Worse, Worser, Worst Person in the World degree, when it came to hearing and tolerating an opposing view?

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #52 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuckerJJ View Post

Would have been cool tech in the iPad. You could have a hover effect when your finger was over a button (or other active area in games for example), and with the distances being much shorter it would be able to pick out the position of individual fingers (multihover!) which could give you a minority report style interactions.

This tech wouldn't work with an iPad... First you need a camera. Second you have to be far enough away from the device to fit within the camera's field of view.

However, Apple already has a patent that describes how you could detect a finger hovering just above the screen without needing to actually touch it, and without the need of a camera...

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-hover...tures-0425164/
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #53 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Goodness. If Ballmer can make 1.3B selling 20% of his stock, why wouldn't he do Microsoft a favor and let a real CEO run that dying company?

It's much more likely that the sale of the stock indicates Balmer is on his way out already.

The kind of big re-alignment of company goals and staffing that would push a "famous" CEO like Balmer out, who is so closely associated with the companies fortunes, would seriously affect the stock. Balmer would be wise to cash out if he had heard rumours of his own ousting.

Unfortunately, while Balmer *staying* is good news for Apple fans, Balmer *leaving* is bad news for everyone, probably including Microsoft stockholders in the short run.
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post #54 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbler View Post

... Under capitalism profit goes to achievers ...

You need to take your political science courses again, this is not accurate at all.

Under Capitalism, the spoils go to those who control the purse strings, and decidedly not to "the achievers." There is a couple of hundred years of history that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If you want a system that just values "achievers," you want something called a Meritocracy.
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post #55 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

There are only two reasons why insiders sell stock:

1. They know the company is about to crater; or
2. A zillion other unrelated reasons.

And there's that adage about 'rats deserting a sinking ship'.
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post #56 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

I'd sell my stock too if it was invested in Microsoft.

Yup. Sell sell sell. Before its too late
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #57 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:29am
Balmer has been working his butt off for Microsoft since before IBM invented the PC and before Microsoft introduced DOS and Windows. He deserves every penny he has earned. If you want to live in a society where the government dictates everything, move to a communist country, please.

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post #58 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

You need to take your political science courses again, this is not accurate at all.

Under Capitalism, the spoils go to those who control the purse strings, and decidedly not to "the achievers." There is a couple of hundred years of history that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If you want a system that just values "achievers," you want something called a Meritocracy.

Ha ha, I'm getting a kick out of watching all the closet communists come out to play.

I must beg to ask, how to you think the individuals "who control the purse stings" came to be in that position? I can guarantee it wasn't by sitting on their lazy ass cashing in welfare cheques.

Apple is the product of Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak (two nobodies) tinkering with toys in a garage. Google. Facebook etc were all stared from an idea that an average Joe had, and knew what do to do with.

There may be an uneven distribution of wealth under capitalism, but everyone has a fair chance to get to the top.
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post #59 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

You need to take your political science courses again, this is not accurate at all.

Under Capitalism, the spoils go to those who control the purse strings, and decidedly not to "the achievers." There is a couple of hundred years of history that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If you want a system that just values "achievers," you want something called a Meritocracy.

How do people go from nothing to controlling "purse strings" of their industry? Through achievement.

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post #60 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhende7 View Post

Ha ha, I'm getting a kick out of watching all the closet communists come out to play.

I must beg to ask, how to you think the individuals "who control the purse stings" came to be in that position? I can guarantee it wasn't by sitting on their lazy ass cashing in welfare cheques.

Apple is the product of Steve Jobs and Steve Wosniak (two nobodies) tinkering with toys in a garage. Google. Facebook etc were all stared from an idea that an average Joe had, and knew what do to do with.

There may be an uneven distribution of wealth under capitalism, but everyone has a fair chance to get to the top.

Finally a voice of reason! I was starting to think we live in communist China.

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post #61 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

Plus they have an idiot who thinks he's a visionary running the company.

You mean this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcUicfqelC8
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #62 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

What has Warren Buffet achieved? Investors sit on their lazy asses and make money from other people's achievements (the working class who have higher tax rates).

Warren Buffet has made more people rich then you or I while we sit on our lazy asses, is what he has achieved!

'make money from other people's achievements'... Man, where did you get your edukashun?! (</sarcasm>). I've never seen Buffet TAKE people's money as does Obama and the Federal Government! Buffet is willing to spread the wealth around if you are FREELY willing to take a risk with your investment. Obama wants to TAKE your money from your hard earned success and spread it around PERIOD! Show me where Buffet favored taking over a private company to save the Union's lazy ass pension fund, while demanding the firing of the CEO and screwing the bond holder investors? I can show you where Obama did it... GM!

For the love of Pete, WAKE-UP!

'(the working class who have higher tax rates)'... Sigh, it's like talking to a brick wall people...

"Critics of Bush's three tax relief plans charge that only the wealthy benefited from the reductions in marginal tax rates. But is this true? And more broadly, do the wealthiest Americans pay their "fair share" of the tax burden?

The evidence shows that all Americans, rich and poor, benefited from President Bush's tax cuts. The rich saw taxes on their dividends and capital gains reduced (as well as their income taxes), and personal income tax rates were slashed across the board, which encompassed every middle-class taxpayer. Even the poor, who generally do not pay income taxes, were rewarded with a higher Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) and child tax credits.

Progressivity and the Tax Burden

Our tax system, however, is highly progressive, meaning that as one's income rises, a higher proportion of that income is taxed. Thus, those in the highest tax brackets contribute more to the overall tax burden even though there are far more people in lower tax brackets.1

According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.
The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.
The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.




http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/news/...eir-fair-share

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #63 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhende7 View Post

Ha ha, I'm getting a kick out of watching all the closet communists come out to play.

I must beg to ask, how to you think the individuals "who control the purse stings" came to be in that position? I can guarantee it wasn't by sitting on their lazy ass cashing in welfare cheques.

Apple is the product of Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak (two nobodies) tinkering with toys in a garage. Google. Facebook etc were all stared from an idea that an average Joe had, and knew what do to do with.

There may be an uneven distribution of wealth under capitalism, but everyone has a fair chance to get to the top.

It stuns me as well. People simply do not grasp the enormous benefits that SJ has bestowed upon planet Earth by applying his vision and other talents into Apple.

It is worth billions. It's capitalism in action. Entrepreneurialism is America's competitive advantage.

We don't have equal wealth in this country because we don't have equal talent and ambition.
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post #64 of 250
11/6/10 at 9:59am
somehow steve ballmer cashing in his stocks isn't as exciting as steve jobs cashing in his.
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post #65 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.
The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.
The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.

These numbers are meaningless without comparisons of percentage of income.

The only one I could find (in just a few minutes of looking) said that the top 1% of earners earn about 25% of income:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...X_GRAPHIC.html

So, the top 25% of income pays 35% of taxes. That's progressive, but not "highly progressive" as you claim. The reason is, of course, that top earners pay far lower effective tax rates than the tax tables would indicate due to the tens of thousands of deductions available.

Here's another one:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/29/irs...americans.html

The top 400 taxpayers pay a lower effective tax rate than the top 5%. In fact, the top 400 taxpayer paid a lower effective tax rate last year than I did - and I'm nowhere near the top 5%.

We really need to switch to a new tax system. My proposal would be:

First $50,000 of income is tax free. All the rest taxed at 20% (or whatever the number needs to be for equalizing the current total tax revenue).

Or, alternatively:

First $50,000 of income is tax free. Next $200,000 at 15%, remainder at 25%.

AND NO DEDUCTIONS FOR ANYTHING.

The country would save tens of billions of dollars on tax compliance and the system would be far more fair for everyone - which is why it will never be enacted.
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post #66 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

This tech wouldn't work with an iPad... First you need a camera. Second you have to be far enough away from the device to fit within the camera's field of view.

However, Apple already has a patent that describes how you could detect a finger hovering just above the screen without needing to actually touch it, and without the need of a camera...

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-hover...tures-0425164/

Obviously it wouldn't work with the iPad as it is now, it would need to have been integrated from the start!

All the kinect tech does is project a matrix of infrared dots which are read by two IR cameras to calculate a 3d model of what's in front; there's no reason this couldn't have been adapted to work at a much shorter range. It's actually pretty similar to the tech in the linked patent, though that uses an array of IR sensors rather than just two IR cameras.
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post #67 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post

There are only two reasons why insiders sell stock:

1. They know the company is about to crater; or
2. A zillion other unrelated reasons.

Sometimes the two coincide.
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post #68 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggley View Post

I think this is just another clever decision.

What was the other one? When?
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post #69 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

A much better response than mine.

I always forget the part about "when engaging in a battle of wits, it is always polite to make sure your opponent is armed."

It is easy to spot too. When all they do is quote a right-wing radio host, there is no point in putting the effort into a lengthy response. I liked your response, but the shorter and simpler one was probably more appropriate for the audience.
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post #70 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Finally a voice of reason! I was starting to think we live in communist China.

Im with you guys. Money is Freedom. No money, no candy.

Money buys you airwaves, anchormen-women, news desks, a Congressman-woman or two or three, cheap foreign laborers here and abroad by the thousands, the best health care system money can buy, and the means to get away from it all when the cheap ungrateful pseudo victims, those grassroots small d democrats, try to cheat their ways into your subconscious comfort zone.

It feels so good to be top tier. Inherited? Good for me, my gene pool deserves it!

Won at the crap table ? Well, lucky I am, Quantum Mechanics works for me!

Got a Hedge Fund blank check in a downturn ? Bless the Lord Space-Time is on my side!

Hard earned out of squeezing the fringe out of the neighbors benefits? How clever of me, striking gold while mining sweat.

I tell you guys, a prosperous Amerika for me is two third sweat shop, one third moral rot. Apple does it in China while it could sweat it out in California, what a shame for the "gotcha" third in us!
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post #71 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Balmer has been working his butt off for Microsoft since before IBM invented the PC and before Microsoft introduced DOS and Windows. He deserves every penny he has earned. If you want to live in a society where the government dictates everything, move to a communist country, please.

I don't disagree one whit with your point that Ballmer deserves every penny he has earned. Indeed, he can do with it as he pleases.

But why do some folks -- like you -- have to turn around make it about whether the person with whom they disagree should stay or leave their home country?

Such intolerant arrogance never ceases to surprise me.
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post #72 of 250
11/6/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Warren Buffet has made more people rich then you or I while we sit on our lazy asses, is what he has achieved!

'make money from other people's achievements'... Man, where did you get your edukashun?! (</sarcasm>). I've never seen Buffet TAKE people's money as does Obama and the Federal Government! Buffet is willing to spread the wealth around if you are FREELY willing to take a risk with your investment. Obama wants to TAKE your money from your hard earned success and spread it around PERIOD! Show me where Buffet favored taking over a private company to save the Union's lazy ass pension fund, while demanding the firing of the CEO and screwing the bond holder investors? I can show you where Obama did it... GM!

For the love of Pete, WAKE-UP!

'(the working class who have higher tax rates)'... Sigh, it's like talking to a brick wall people...

"Critics of Bush's three tax relief plans charge that only the wealthy benefited from the reductions in marginal tax rates. But is this true? And more broadly, do the wealthiest Americans pay their "fair share" of the tax burden?

The evidence shows that all Americans, rich and poor, benefited from President Bush's tax cuts. The rich saw taxes on their dividends and capital gains reduced (as well as their income taxes), and personal income tax rates were slashed across the board, which encompassed every middle-class taxpayer. Even the poor, who generally do not pay income taxes, were rewarded with a higher Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) and child tax credits.

Progressivity and the Tax Burden

Our tax system, however, is highly progressive, meaning that as one's income rises, a higher proportion of that income is taxed. Thus, those in the highest tax brackets contribute more to the overall tax burden even though there are far more people in lower tax brackets.1

According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.
The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.
The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.




http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/news/...eir-fair-share

Well I fall squarely into that top 1% and I think the 18% Capital gains tax is absurd and unjustifiable. I have no guilt, I play plenty of taxes at that 18% rate and can guarantee you my life would not be any different if it were taxed as regular income. My investment strategy would change little if any.

I find that most of the people who make right wing ideologue arguments have no real experience with what they are talking about. 99% of individual investors have their money in a tax sheltered plan of some kind and the capital gains tax does in fact only help people in the top income brackets.

The country is under an unsustainable debt load. Neither party in the US is willing to reduce spending at all. Money has to come from somewhere and you can't squeeze blood from a stone. It really is that simple. Balmer, me, SJ, more than likely you have all benefited more from being here than the single mother pulling two shifts at the 7-11. Did I work hard? Yes. Does she work hard? Yes. Can she make her mortgage payment if you raise her taxes 1%? No. Can I still get my new boat next year if capital gains are taxed as regular income? Yes.

Is it fair? Grow up.

One additional point.. I think out entire tax system is BS and we should start over. Dick Army had the right idea, it is too bad no one listened. I think a real flat tax where everything dollar over say $25,000 is taxed at 25% (numbers are examples only) is more fair to everyone. It is more fair to the poor, it is more efficient for the government and the only people it really hurts are tax accountants. (I know homebuilders think everyone will move into apartments without the interest tax credit, but they are shortsighted morons). It is more fair to the rich.
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post #73 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Let me guess... You are a graduate of the Keith Olbermann School of Polite Discourse? Tell me... Did you graduate with a Latin Honor of Cum Laud... Er... MSNBC Honor of Worse, Worser, Worst Person in the World degree, when it came to hearing and tolerating an opposing view?

If I said "UC Berkeley", would that ease or increase the pain of your hatred for all people that oppose your point of view?
If I said "followed by 6 years as a Marine Corps officer with two combat tours of Vietnam" would that help you decide whether I am fit to have a discussion with you where we agree to disagree?
If I said "I'm liberal in my views, but conservative with your money" would you accept and agree with my investment advice?

My response to the OP that started most of this was somewhat harsh, I agree. Mostly it was sarcastic criticism of "the earth is flat" thinking.

But how do you respond to someone that shouts with multiple !!! on nearly everything they type, throw big words around that they clearly have no idea as to the meaning of, call out people as lazy asses, communists, or bums, and in general just make a nuisance of themselves?

Oh, right. I forgot. You throw money in a coffer and have them run for office under the Tea Party moniker. 'cause, you know, "we're all mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!"

[sigh]
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #74 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Balmer has been working his butt off for Microsoft since before IBM invented the PC and before Microsoft introduced DOS and Windows. He deserves every penny he has earned. If you want to live in a society where the government dictates everything, move to a communist country, please.

You forgot to add <sarcasm> tags...
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #75 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Well I fall squarely into that top 1% and I think the 18% Capital gains tax is absurd and unjustifiable. I have no guilt, I play plenty of taxes at that 18% rate and can guarantee you my life would not be any different if it were taxed as regular income. My investment strategy would change little if any.

I find that most of the people who make right wing ideologue arguments have no real experience with what they are talking about. 99% of individual investors have their money in a tax sheltered plan of some kind and the capital gains tax does in fact only help people in the top income brackets.

The country is under an unsustainable debt load. Neither party in the US is willing to reduce spending at all. Money has to come from somewhere and you can't squeeze blood from a stone. It really is that simple. Balmer, me, SJ, more than likely you have all benefited more from being here than the single mother pulling two shifts at the 7-11. Did I work hard? Yes. Does she work hard? Yes. Can she make her mortgage payment if you raise her taxes 1%? No. Can I still get my new boat next year if capital gains are taxed as regular income? Yes.

Is it fair? Grow up.

One additional point.. I think out entire tax system is BS and we should start over. Dick Army had the right idea, it is too bad no one listened. I think a real flat tax where everything dollar over say $25,000 is taxed at 25% (numbers are examples only) is more fair to everyone. It is more fair to the poor, it is more efficient for the government and the only people it really hurts are tax accountants. (I know homebuilders think everyone will move into apartments without the interest tax credit, but they are shortsighted morons). It is more fair to the rich.

A well thought out and responsible post.
I think I am going to like having you around.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #76 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


The country is under an unsustainable debt load. Neither party in the US is willing to reduce spending at all. Money has to come from somewhere and you can't squeeze blood from a stone. It really is that simple. Balmer, me, SJ, more than likely you have all benefited more from being here than the single mother pulling two shifts at the 7-11. Did I work hard? Yes. Does she work hard? Yes. Can she make her mortgage payment if you raise her taxes 1%? No. Can I still get my new boat next year if capital gains are taxed as regular income? Yes.

Is it fair? Grow up.

Very well-said. And, very true.
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post #77 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I don't disagree one whit with your point that Ballmer deserves every penny he has earned. Indeed, he can do with it as he pleases.

But why do some folks -- like you -- have to turn around make it about whether the person with whom they disagree should stay or leave their home country?

Such intolerant arrogance never ceases to surprise me.

Capitalism is the foundation of the USA. The people complaining here about it want a communist society instead of a capitalistic one.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #78 of 250
11/6/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Well I fall squarely into that top 1% and I think the 18% Capital gains tax is absurd and unjustifiable. I have no guilt, I play plenty of taxes at that 18% rate and can guarantee you my life would not be any different if it were taxed as regular income. My investment strategy would change little if any.

I find that most of the people who make right wing ideologue arguments have no real experience with what they are talking about. 99% of individual investors have their money in a tax sheltered plan of some kind and the capital gains tax does in fact only help people in the top income brackets.

The country is under an unsustainable debt load. Neither party in the US is willing to reduce spending at all. Money has to come from somewhere and you can't squeeze blood from a stone. It really is that simple. Balmer, me, SJ, more than likely you have all benefited more from being here than the single mother pulling two shifts at the 7-11. Did I work hard? Yes. Does she work hard? Yes. Can she make her mortgage payment if you raise her taxes 1%? No. Can I still get my new boat next year if capital gains are taxed as regular income? Yes.

Is it fair? Grow up.

One additional point.. I think out entire tax system is BS and we should start over. Dick Army had the right idea, it is too bad no one listened. I think a real flat tax where everything dollar over say $25,000 is taxed at 25% (numbers are examples only) is more fair to everyone. It is more fair to the poor, it is more efficient for the government and the only people it really hurts are tax accountants. (I know homebuilders think everyone will move into apartments without the interest tax credit, but they are shortsighted morons). It is more fair to the rich.

While I fully agree with your last paragraph, I'll take issue with your first couple.

First, just because you would not change your investing strategy in the face of a doubling of capital gains rates does not mean that others wouldn't and shouldn't. Investing strategy should always take tax rates into consideration. Few people in the top 1% have such little saved that it can all be tax deferred. The majority have significant assets in taxable instruments. This is particularly true of entrepreneurs with substantial company stock. The rest of us can at least take advantage of tax-managed mutual funds.

Second, trying to pay for runaway spending by taxing the wealthy is a losing strategy. Unfortunately, the wealthy simply don't have enough money to fund government spending at its current run rate. Further, the wealthy represent an extremely small, and therefore volatile, tax base. In times of recession the wealthy are disproportionately impacted and when they represent the majority of tax revenue, tax revenue is similarly impacted. The only stable revenue stream is a broad-based revenue stream.
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post #79 of 250
11/6/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Well I fall squarely into that top 1% and I think the 18% Capital gains tax is absurd and unjustifiable. I have no guilt, I play plenty of taxes at that 18% rate and can guarantee you my life would not be any different if it were taxed as regular income. My investment strategy would change little if any.

I think that unearned income should be taxed just like earned income. If not the same, then higher.

I also think that we need to index capital gains against inflation, to avoid distorting the reality of the underlying ownership decisions.

The guy sweating for $40 grand a year should pay taxes, and so should the old guy earning $40 grand from his investments.

Index long term capital gains for inflation, so no tax is paid on the portion of gain that results from differences in currency values. That is only fair.

But don't give preferential tax treatment to equity positions over fixed income positions, and especially don't give equity positions preferential treatment over wages, because wages are income earned from productive activity. We need more productive activity.
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post #80 of 250
11/6/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

The people complaining here about it want a communist society instead of a capitalistic one.

Some of them? Probably not.
All of them? Most certainly not.
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