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Apple's iWork '11 suite tracking for release alongside Mac App Store - Page 2

post #41 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

This could be the reason why they did not include iWeb to the iLife suite.

Apple included iWeb in the iLife suite...

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.apple.com/ilife Main Page

iLife 11 also includes iWeb and iDVD for creating instant websites or your own straight-to-DVD classic.

Quote:
It'll be offered as a separate update in the new Mac App Store.

From the screenshots, it doesn't look like they'll be offering it or iDVD at all.

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post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

They need to spend some time updating the iOS version of these apps first. Apple released the iPad with beta-quality versions of these apps, the only update they have had restores *basic* functionality only.

How about making a version of Pages for iPad that can actually be used for serious work? Anything more than a very casual edit of a stray document once in a while is completely out of reach at this point.

How about the capability to edit styles or create them? How about the ability to simply change the colour or font of the text in a document without going through ten swipes and pokes? Word counts? Section breaks? How about the ability to do almost anything besides very basic typing, on documents that all had to be created on other platforms in the first place? Pages (and the other iOS apps), are okay in a pinch, but when are they thinking of making them work like proper applications?

Bla bla bla, purely your opinion and wrong at that.
post #43 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Out of curiosity, how does a cell span a page?

Currently if a cell goes over the end of a page, Pages moves the entire cell to the next page. As far as I know there is no way of splitting the cell. If a single cell gets bigger than an entire page, you simply lose the text at the bottom. This pretty much rules out Pages for things like specifications or issue lists where you have tables of items where one cell in each row has a lot of text in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

What do you mean by proper numbering?

I meant section numbering. While it's possible to do it to a degree with the List Styles, it's not flexible enough to do section numbering for a full business document with nested, numbered sections. (Having said that, the section numbering is one of the most frustrating should-have-been-fixed-years-ago parts of Word - but you can do it if you're careful.)

That reminds me that versioning isn't available in Pages. It's a feature I feel I can work around, but is probably a deal breaker for a lot of businesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The most common complaint I've heard about Pages from Word jocks is the lack of a formula editor,

I guess - though Word is hardly the best way to go if your work is formula-based.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

An inability to mix footnotes and endnotes.

Interesting. That seems quite an advanced feature relative to other missing things.
post #44 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by delany View Post

Currently if a cell goes over the end of a page, Pages moves the entire cell to the next page. As far as I know there is no way of splitting the cell. If a single cell gets bigger than an entire page, you simply lose the text at the bottom. This pretty much rules out Pages for things like specifications or issue lists where you have tables of items where one cell in each row has a lot of text in.

I see what you mean. I wonder if using text box objects isn't a possible solution.

Quote:
I meant section numbering. While it's possible to do it to a degree with the List Styles, it's not flexible enough to do section numbering for a full business document with nested, numbered sections. (Having said that, the section numbering is one of the most frustrating should-have-been-fixed-years-ago parts of Word - but you can do it if you're careful.)

That reminds me that versioning isn't available in Pages. It's a feature I feel I can work around, but is probably a deal breaker for a lot of businesses.

I think this can work in Pages, but I can't say I've tried too hard. Auto-numbering even in its simplest form has always seemed fragile to me, and requires constant vigilance to make sure that the numbering remains accurate (a single line with the wrong style assigned can screw it up). If I have to go back and check everything anyway, I'd just as soon do it manually.

While I'm at it, I think Apple's implementation of tables of contents needs some work. The biggest problem is that the TOC doesn't update until you click on it. That's an easy thing to miss. A potential gotcha.

Quote:
I guess - though Word is hardly the best way to go if your work is formula-based.

Interesting. That seems quite an advanced feature relative to other missing things.

I also think these are both advanced features, which while I grant they might be important to a small subset of users, isn't a good reason for most people to rule out using Pages. The largest real barrier to switching over is getting used to Apple's very different approach. I think it's a breath of fresh air, but it makes some people feel insecure.
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post #45 of 117
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Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


PSS. What do you guys and gals think? 2992, allblue, applestockholder, Asmodai, diddy, fh-ace, Gamrin, Goldenclaw, Jsyedinak, kube, Londor, ollebolle, Prof. Peabody, RPT, sflocal, sgginc, skeedadell, Tallest Skil, Touche, tzb

I have both iWork and Office. I was using iWork more often for basic docs and excel files due to its speed versus Office, but Office is just better.
So... considering Office 2011 is as fast as iWork, then unfortunately iWork is still having no chance in front of Office. Well, not yet.
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post #46 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by P in Mpls View Post

Try Office 2004; There hasn't been more than a handful of useful new features in the last 3 releases of office - combined.

Still, I'm waiting, too. iWork 09 was OK, but not quite there yet in a few key areas, so I still can't dump office completely...

For me, it's all about their speed for now. Office 2011 is now fast enough versus '04 or '08.
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post #47 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord View Post

I was holding out to buy iWork when the Mac App Store came out, so I could get it without having to buy Numbers too. Now I'm even happier if they're also releasing an update. Awesome.

My opinion on iWork vs. Office...

Word > Pages

Excel >>>>> Numbers

PowerPoint <<<<< Keynote

I think anyone who tells you Pages is better than Word just doesn't use a lot of the features of Word. Yes, Word is incredibly convoluted and cluttered, but it's more than just a word processor. Pages stays truer to what a word processor is supposed to be, though.

Excel is about as important as oxygen to breath in my workplace.

PowerPoint makes everything look like a middle school book report compared to Keynote.

Exactly! Well said!
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post #48 of 117
The current version, iWork '09, was released in January of 2009 and sells for $79 as a standalone product, or $49 with the purchase of any Mac. It was introduced alongside iWork.com, Apple's online document sharing service.[/QUOTE]

OpenOffice $0.00 FREE FREE FREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! Openoffice.org. Download for free. If it doesnt suit your needs, no loss.
post #49 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

OpenOffice $0.00 FREE FREE FREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! Openoffice.org. Download for free. If it doesnt suit your needs, no loss.

Or, you know, I'll keep iWork and not have to learn a new interface, deal with incompatible documents, and make stuff that looks good.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #50 of 117
Is it possible iWork '11 is being held back to include Bento 4? Bento 3 has currently been out for more than a year.

One problem though: It's not a real business class application. Not like Pages and Keynote anyway.

If they added new Bento and iWeb apps to the suite, that would be incredible for SOHO Mac offices.
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post #51 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Is it possible iWork '11 is being held back to include Bento 4? Bento 3 has currently been out for more than a year.

One problem though: It's not a real business class application. Not like Pages and Keynote anyway.

If they added new Bento and iWeb apps to the suite, that would be incredible for SOHO Mac offices.

Bento is a rubbish app, and it's not even an Apple app anyway, it's owned by FileMaker (no need to explain that FM is an offshoot company from Apple).

I'd say Numbers is the iWork app that needs the most work. It's difficult, slow and very limited compared to Excel. Considering that Excel is by far the best Office app, I'd say Apple has a lot of catching up to do here.

I submitted no fewer than half a dozen suggestions and feature requests about Numbers, and I know someone else who's done the same with completely different bugs/suggestions/requests.

Keynote and (to a slightly lesser extent) Pages eat PowerPoint and Word for breakfast...
post #52 of 117
Bento is an Apple app in all but name. Filemaker is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Apple, so any separation between them is essentially imaginary. Not that I can figure out what Bento is actually for. I would not call it rubbish on that basis, but it's purpose seems puzzling.
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post #53 of 117
Numbers is held back because it's probably the one iWork app Jobs doesn't use. I don't know how we fix that.

Yes, Bento can be frustratingly immature, but it's the only Mac database app that plays nice with Address Book and iCal.

That Filemaker has invested the time creating Sales Tracking and Project Management templates (which Filemaker Pro doesn't even have) tells me that Filemaker sees Bento, not FM Pro, as the possible future of the Mac database.

The question is how it gets there, and I think pulling Filemaker (or at least Bento) into the iWork Applications group would be best.
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post #54 of 117
[It is possible that iWork 11 suite was sidelined for the release of Microsoft Office 2011which was critical to get out there as quickly as possible to further Mac sales.. It would seem iWork 11 would come a bit later so as not to coincide with the MS release.

A good functioning MS Office suite can do nothing but help and grow Apple in the months to come.
post #55 of 117
Okay, so it's beginning to be common knowledge that iWork '11 will be released once the Mac App Store opens.

There's a problem with that. iWork '11 will take a lot of attention away from the launch of the store itself.

Apple should send out a press release soon, touting all the new features, and say that it will be available January 6 at the Mac App Store.

Doesn't that make more sense than having two big software launches on the same day?
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post #56 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamrin View Post

Now if Adobe will just make an import filter for placing Pages text into InDesign...

Right on. Excellent suggestion.
post #57 of 117
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Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

Right on. Excellent suggestion.

Excuse me for asking, but why is this important? If you're placing text into InDesign or some other page layout app, you want the least-formatted text you can get. I prefer plain text myself. Pages has enough export options to make this a non-issue.
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post #58 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Excuse me for asking, but why is this important? If you're placing text into InDesign or some other page layout app, you want the least-formatted text you can get. I prefer plain text myself. Pages has enough export options to make this a non-issue.

My assumption is that such a plug-in would allow users to keep the same formatting that has been used in Pages but work within InDesign's layout once the spread is transferred. Essentially, Apple does a good job in Pages (and other software) with providing user-friendly templates for fairly complex layout schemes. InDesign, while more powerful, has fewer such templates. I know people who work in Pages because of its ease of use but would love to transfer their template-based spreads to InDesign for more subtle adjustments prior to going to print or exporting to PDF.
post #59 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

My assumption is that such a plug-in would allow users to keep the same formatting that has been used in Pages but work within InDesign's layout once the spread is transferred. Essentially, Apple does a good job in Pages (and other software) with providing user-friendly templates for fairly complex layout schemes. InDesign, while more powerful, has fewer such templates. I know people who work in Pages because of its ease of use but would love to transfer their template-based spreads to InDesign for more subtle adjustments prior to going to print or exporting to PDF.

I see, I had not thought of that. You might be right. I tend to see InDesign users as hardened design jocks who'd never touch something as simple as Pages with a ten-foot barge pole. Transferring layouts from Pages to anything else would probably be pretty difficult to accomplish with any accuracy anyway. Or so it seems to me.
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post #60 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I see, I had not thought of that. You might be right. I tend to see InDesign users as hardened design jocks who'd never touch something as simple as Pages with a ten-foot barge pole. Transferring layouts from Pages to anything else would probably be pretty difficult to accomplish with any accuracy anyway. Or so it seems to me.

I think you're right on all counts.

I'm an InDesign person, so I rarely begin with Pages, but I have a number of colleagues who use Pages for mock-ups. They like the simplicity of the programits efficiency with ready-made layouts.
post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

I think you're right on all counts.

I'm an InDesign person, so I rarely begin with Pages, but I have a number of colleagues who use Pages for mock-ups. They like the simplicity of the programits efficiency with ready-made layouts.

What about PDFs?
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post #62 of 117
It does not appear on the new release of the App Store today. Any new rumors regarding this?
post #63 of 117
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Originally Posted by KCH View Post

It does not appear on the new release of the App Store today. Any new rumors regarding this?

Yes, it's obviously not happening for another month or so, if at all.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #64 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Okay, so it's beginning to be common knowledge that iWork '11 will be released once the Mac App Store opens.

There's a problem with that. iWork '11 will take a lot of attention away from the launch of the store itself.

Apple should send out a press release soon, touting all the new features, and say that it will be available January 6 at the Mac App Store.

Doesn't that make more sense than having two big software launches on the same day?

Common incorrect knowledge. File this under "Widespread reported Apple rumours purporting truth ultimately debunked".

Quite surprising really that Apple are trying to sell 2-year-old versions of their productivity suite on the brand new App store. If you bought iWork now and they updated it in a month you'd want to damn well hope Apple gives you a courtesy upgrade for free. Anything less would not be a good look. I can see the potential for a violent internet backlash here...
post #65 of 117
It's easy enough to understand that Apple needed to ensure the App Store was working well before launching a major product that will incur hundreds of thousands of purchases and downloads on its first day.

Just because iWork '11 wasn't available at launch doesn't mean it won't be released this month.
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post #66 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's easy enough to understand that Apple needed to ensure the App Store was working well before launching a major product that will incur hundreds of thousands of purchases and downloads on its first day.

Just because iWork '11 wasn't available at launch doesn't mean it won't be released this month.

Hundreds of thousands? I don't think so. There aren't hundreds of thousands of Mac users on the planet.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #67 of 117
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hundreds of thousands? I don't think so. There aren't hundreds of thousands of Mac users on the planet.

Apple sold 3.89 million Macs in the fourth quarter of 2010 alone.
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post #68 of 117
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hundreds of thousands? I don't think so. There aren't hundreds of thousands of Mac users on the planet.

haha and we're supposed to believe anything you say?
post #69 of 117
This was a big disappointment as I feel iWork is overdue for an upgrade. I really like and use this product. Has anyone heard anything new with this product.
post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbv View Post

This was a big disappointment as I feel iWork is overdue for an upgrade. I really like and use this product. Has anyone heard anything new with this product.

Yes, it's still not out and it will continue to still not be out.

What, how are we supposed to know anything about it?

Originally posted by Relic

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post #71 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbv View Post

This was a big disappointment as I feel iWork is overdue for an upgrade. I really like and use this product. Has anyone heard anything new with this product.

All of the signs point to it being released quite soon. As for it being overdue, I'm not so sure. Yes, the current version of iWork is two years old, but then it's not deficient in any major way, so it hasn't been crying out for an upgrade. As an iWork user from day one, I'd rather that Apple hang onto it for longer and make the updates more meaningful. I'd be more disappointed if they rushed the update to keep it on some arbitrary upgrade cycle.
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post #72 of 117
I really hope they enable color management so that Pages can be used to do layout for offset printing. It's a wonderful quick-layout program, but doesn't color manage for professional printing...
post #73 of 117
I just wish Apple would take a leaf out of Pixelmator's book and pre-announce a free upgrade to iWork 11!

There's virtually no disadvantage in them doing this because they get to take all the money now from people that want iWork '11 but are refusing to buy iWork '09 without a guarantee of a free upgrade. Apple could grow that money (interest/investments) or even put it toward the development of the product itself!

That way I can use iWork '09 fully licensed until they get around to releasing version 11.
post #74 of 117
I've been using iWork '09 fully licensed since it was released. It's super affordable and if you held off all the way back then, you can't complain about what's the result of pinching pennies.

That said, you're right. There's no point in getting it now if you don't already have it, and what you suggest would help.
post #75 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgreeniwa View Post

I really hope they enable color management so that Pages can be used to do layout for offset printing. It's a wonderful quick-layout program, but doesn't color manage for professional printing...

And I hope you can link cells across page breaks.
post #76 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I've been using iWork '09 fully licensed since it was released. It's super affordable and if you held off all the way back then, you can't complain about what's the result of pinching pennies.

That said, you're right. There's no point in getting it now if you don't already have it, and what you suggest would help.

Oh iWork would have been great value buying it even just a year ago...but I held off for various reasons and now it just seems silly to buy it for AU$70 if they're going to release a paid upgrade tomorrow...

I think the anticipation of this upgrade is unprecedented for any software product from Apple I can remember and it's going to be very successful for them. Apple probably realise they have a great opportunity to kick M$ while they're down (the whole "ribbon" disaster) and are taking extra time to make it as good as it can possibly be. That's my hope anyway. How great would it be if they released it for Windows too. Really take it up to M$.
post #77 of 117
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Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

I think the anticipation of this upgrade is unprecedented for any software product from Apple...

No, that would be the rebuilt-from-the-ground-up 64-bit Final Cut Suite.
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post #78 of 117
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Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

No, that would be the rebuilt-from-the-ground-up 64-bit Final Cut Suite.

That'll be Final Cut Studio 4. Final Cut Studio 5 will be getting a unified interface that's actually based on Mac OS X. Only seven years too late.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #79 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

Oh iWork would have been great value buying it even just a year ago...but I held off for various reasons and now it just seems silly to buy it for AU$70 if they're going to release a paid upgrade tomorrow...

I think the anticipation of this upgrade is unprecedented for any software product from Apple I can remember and it's going to be very successful for them. Apple probably realise they have a great opportunity to kick M$ while they're down (the whole "ribbon" disaster) and are taking extra time to make it as good as it can possibly be. That's my hope anyway. How great would it be if they released it for Windows too. Really take it up to M$.

I think iWork for Windows is a distinct possibility, especially given iWork for the iPad and iWork.com. The logic is hard to escape.
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post #80 of 117
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Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I think iWork for Windows is a distinct possibility, especially given iWork for the iPad and iWork.com. The logic is hard to escape.

I can't see Apple devoting the resources necessary to fighting MS Office on Windows just because PC users are buying the iPad.
Corporate sales aren't a really big target for Apple, Period.
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