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RIM's PlayBook will take on Apple's iPad with a price under $500

post #1 of 133
Thread Starter 
When Research in Motion debuts its own touchscreen tablet, dubbed the Playbook, in early 2011, it will be sold at a sub-$500 price that has eluded other competitors of Apple's iPad.

In a conversation with Bloomberg, RIM co-Chief Executive Jim Balsillie said the Playbook will go on sale in North America in the first quarter of 2010 for "under" $500. Apple's iPad has an entry price of $499.

"The product will be very competitively priced," Balsillie reportedly said.

RIM teased the PlayBook, a 7-inch multi-touch tablet, in September. It will run the all-new BlackBerry Tablet OS on a 1024-by-600-pixel display.

The PlayBook's sub-$500 price will not likely be achieved with a carrier subsidy, as the first-generation device will not offer integrated 3G or 4G data connectivity. RIM has said it plans to add built-in cellular wireless to the tablet in the future, but initial users will rely on Wi-Fi or shared data from a BlackBerry.

The PlayBook will also have a screen smaller than Apple's 9.7-inch iPad display. Last month, Apple CEO Steve Jobs criticized iPad competitors like the PlayBook for their 7-inch screens, suggesting the screen size was selected in an effort to compete with Apple's competitively priced iPad.

"When we make decisions on 7-inch tablets, it's not about cost," Jobs said. "It's about the value of the product when you factor in software." He said that Apple's own testing has found that a 7-inch screen is too small to be functional for users.



Samsung has its own 7-inch tablet, the Galaxy Tab, set to debut this week on Verizon, the largest wireless carrier in the U.S. But that Android-based device has a starting price of $600 with Verizon, $30 cheaper than Apple's $630 iPad with 3G, or the iPad-MiFi bundle Verizon now sells.

But like the first-generation PlayBook, Apple's $499 iPad does not offer integrated 3G connectivity. The 16GB 9.7-inch Wi-Fi iPad is just $499.

Two other U.S. wireless carriers, Sprint and T-Mobile, also offer Samsung's Galaxy Tab at a price under $500, thanks to carrier subsidies. The device will cost $399.99 and will come with a two-year service agreement for 3G data.
post #2 of 133
DOA, sub-500 or not.
post #3 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

DOA, sub-500 or not.

flash-loving, battery suckin, 7 inch tablet looks nice. Blackpad not competitively priced to take on the iPad, the samsung tab, yes..
post #4 of 133
Since when is charging the same price for a 7" screen device, at half the screen real estate area, "very competitive" to a 9.7" screen device?
post #5 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

DOA, sub-500 or not.

I disagree. I think the Blackberry Playbook is the only one that will be a serious threat to iPad and the only one i would consider buying (besides from the iPad and if i had the money for it...).

It's the only one that has a proper OS, designed specifically for the Tablet, and not a improvised application of other OSes (windows or android).
it's the only one that has spend time looking for development partners (Adobe [yes i know they heva their issues, but many many developers still use them as their mainly/only tool ] ) and the only one that has a serious designed interface, that is not an iOS or windows ripoff.

and i think that the 7"+ design is closer to the ideal of a tablet than the tiny 6" tablet form from the android rivals. I haven't hold one side by side with an ipad to compare and feel but i think that the sweet spot is there between the 7" playbook and 9,7" ipad. not the measly <6" form of the android ones. (which is neither an phone nor a proper pad and will generate a big disappointment after some serious time of usage)
post #6 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post

Since when is charging the same price for a 7" screen device, at half the screen real estate area, "very competitive" to a 9.7" screen device?

since screen area isn't everything and some people value other characteristics more, inclusive the simple price.
post #7 of 133
RIM, impress me by showing us an iPad-sized model under $500. Until then, don't make it sound like your product is the same specs as an iPad for the same price. Looks like another has-been before it even leaves the vaporware lab.
post #8 of 133
Hm, I do not quite get the logic for ruling subsidies out here. Unless you are confident that Blackberry users will get tethering for free... which I consider a bit unlikely.

From the (very limited on the actual device, most demos were videos) demos given by RIM, the display seems to be rather good quality (maybe not IPS, but I do not know), it uses a next generation dual core processor... I really do not see how they will be able to stay under the price of e.g. the Galaxy Tab. So either RIM is subsidizing the device to buy market share, or there will be hidden cost, like additional subscriptions required?

No idea what it will be in the end, but for me it does not really add up yet.
post #9 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

since screen area isn't everything and some people value other characteristics more, inclusive the simple price.

why was everyone screaming that the iphone 3G or 3GS screen size was too small until they came out with the retinal display, then the competitors dropped the screen size/resolution comparison. So now it's have your cake and eat too moment for defending smaller screen sizes...

this is hilarious..

guaranteed if the iPad was a 7-in device, the competitors would rip it a new one. But since Jobs and Co. have ACTUALLY been R&D-ing for over a decade on tablets, probably have dozens of 7-12 prototypes, Jobs knows that this is DOA. This is guy that did mainstream the mouse, the trackball, and is now ushering in the era of the multitouch portable computer.

when Jobs says a 7-in tablet is DOA, I would not bet against him. What other company has even put in a fraction of the time developing and researching what size is a ideal form factor for a tablet? its purely reactionary..
post #10 of 133
i got nothing about this product that i haven't seen on an ipad. in fact, the ad is reminiscent of an earlier windows campaign that was a little too artsy-fartsy and had little to do with the actual product.

look, anyone can make a video of an interface of a not-yet-developed-product. why bother?
post #11 of 133
I swear, this is a "business" tablet, but their commercial is directed at the consumer. They don't seem to know who they want to target.

Notice how they show everything displayed on something large in the commercial.... not on the device itself. DOA!!!
post #12 of 133
Another company copying Apple products...hope they flop!!

"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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post #13 of 133
I agree that it's the only other tablet that has an OS designed to be a tablet besides the iPad. At the same time, I think the hardware combination is going to fail. Why? It's too small to be useful as a tablet. I make software for the iPad and there is a certain sweet spot for size. I think the iPad is on the low end for size that you want to achieve. Any smaller and there are apps you can't make. You really need to have something that approaches the size of paper if you hope to replace paper.

The other thing I find odd is that the argument for a smaller screen is mobility. But then why did the company so known for mobile communications not even build in 3G capability? Even the Dell Streak can be used as a (big) phone. The only reason I can think of is that they want to sell more Blackberry phones and contracts. Either that or they couldn't make things work out with the carriers. I'm not sure.

Another consideration is that for this size, you are going to have less battery life. The inside of the iPad is crammed with batteries which is how it gets long battery life. From experience, this is an important aspect of the device. If you are going to replace paper, it needs to be reliable. Reliability means not thinking about charging it. The Playbook is going to run Flash/Flex/Air and I wonder what the performance of that will be and how it will impact battery life.

So those are my concerns. I think these companies are scrambling to get something that will go head to head with the iPad and I just haven't seen that come up yet besides price. But what are you losing out on then? The iPad provides a lot of value for the price from what I have seen.
post #14 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

It's the only one that has a proper OS, designed specifically for the Tablet, and not a improvised application of other OSes (windows or android).
it's the only one that has spend time looking for development partners (Adobe [yes i know they heva their issues, but many many developers still use them as their mainly/only tool ] ) and the only one that has a serious designed interface, that is not an iOS or windows ripoff.

Now, that is really the make or break question right there... (the screen size is certainly not)

So far, IMHO of course, RIM has not proven that they do understand touch interfaces, neither the Storm, nor the Storm 2, nor the Torch have received any praise for their touch implementation. How they will magically just pull that off on a bigger device is something I do not see just happening (of course, it is possible). So far they gave the press no hands-on time with the devices, and one can literally show off everything hidden inside a glass cube and running a video.

RIM still has a special position in the enterprise world (at least in the US), and they will certainly move some units. But without attracting consumers, it will remain a niche product. Usability and availability of apps and media will be key factors... none of these are historical strengths of RIM, let's see if they can change that.
post #15 of 133
(I never understood why RIM called this tablet for corporate users "Playbook.)

But more important: The company I am working for (10.000+) is a Blackberry only shop as far as mobile devices are concerned. But not any longer. Starting Q1/11 iPhone/iPad will be supported for mail/calendar/address book/chat. (web based everything) Lotus Notes and Blackberry will be gone.
Of course I can keep the Blackberry as a phone and for browsing the web (It's a "Curve", so this is a joke for both things).
post #16 of 133
There's room enough in the device market for a lot of vendors including RIM with their PlayBook. RIM will bring along a lot of energy, lots of loyal fans, subscribers and carrier relationships. Their demo is a little slim so I don't think there's any good way to judge if the OS alone is going to meet the needs of their customers (or win new ones, for that matter).

That said, while screen size is important, so is price, battery life and interoperability. Also critical are experience with purchasing, using, customizing and getting support for the device. It's a complicated thing rolling out a new category of product and Apple really succeeds in that. The iPad has set a high bar but RIM and others have chosen another route for their devices. Game on.
post #17 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post

Since when is charging the same price for a 7" screen device, at half the screen real estate area, "very competitive" to a 9.7" screen device?

Cortex A9? HDMI out? 2 HD cameras? There is more to it than screen size.

Also, when did Apple fanatics start championing screen size since last i heard most were crying about the paltry 3.5 on the iPhone
post #18 of 133
I'm with you brother! I cannot believe that RIM cannot even make a nice touchscreen device!! The Storm 2 did not even improve substantially on the Storm 1 and is laborous to use and type on.

On another front, the Blackberry Apps are terrible and childish. With the Playbook if they want to even compete they will have to somehow offer quality apps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Now, that is really the make or break question right there... (the screen size is certainly not)

So far, IMHO of course, RIM has not proven that they do understand touch interfaces, neither the Storm, nor the Storm 2, nor the Torch have received any praise for their touch implementation. How they will magically just pull that off on a bigger device is something I do not see just happening (of course, it is possible). So far they gave the press no hands-on time with the devices, and one can literally show off everything hidden inside a glass cube and running a video.

RIM still has a special position in the enterprise world (at least in the US), and they will certainly move some units. But without attracting consumers, it will remain a niche product. Usability and availability of apps and media will be key factors... none of these are historical strengths of RIM, let's see if they can change that.
post #19 of 133
Why are all these RIM videos of rendered images being manipulated, where are the actual devices running the OS?
post #20 of 133
RIM's first touch screen phone (Blackberry Storm) was a complete disaster. Their first tablet will be a complete disaster. Unlike Apple, there is no one at RIM who will say "Wait a minute, this thing sucks. Let's not ship until will get it right."

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #21 of 133
So much for Apple's hegemony.
post #22 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

... Also, when did Apple fanatics start championing screen size since last i heard most were crying about the paltry 3.5 on the iPhone

youDoFail.

First, this sentence doesn't even make sense.

Secondly, what does the screen size of a phone have to do with the screen size of a tablet that employs an entirely different UI?

Lastly, l don't know of anyone "crying" about the screen size of the iPhone.
post #23 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post


this is hilarious..

It sure is!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

guaranteed if the iPad was a 7-in device....

People like you would be posting it was the perfect size!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

Jobs knows that this is DOA.

And if "Jobs Knows" .. You know it's true!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

This is guy that did mainstream the mouse, the trackball, and is now ushering in the era of the multitouch portable computer.

Are you in line to kiss his ass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

when Jobs says

Yeah Fanboy, When "Jobs says"!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

a 7-in tablet is DOA, I would not bet against him.

Because you're incapable of thinking for yourself!


Quote:
Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post

What other company has even put in a fraction of the time developing and researching what size is a ideal form factor for a tablet? its purely reactionary..

And you know this because?? Oh that's right , "Jobs Says"!!!!!!!!!!

Have a nice life there fanboy.. Lunch time.. Better go check on what "Jobs says" you should eat!
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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post #24 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotWake View Post

I swear, this is a "business" tablet, but their commercial is directed at the consumer. They don't seem to know who they want to target.

Notice how they show everything displayed on something large in the commercial.... not on the device itself. DOA!!

You got it right. They're not even smart enough to figure out that a device named PLAYbook will hardly be considered appropriate by IT departments. What a fail.
post #25 of 133
Has anybody seen one in the wild yet?

Also after playing with a Galaxy Tab at the weekend i don't hold a great deal of hope for that either at £499 when an iPad costs £429. It was nicely put together but too many buttons on the hardware and over engineered IMHO. Hardly a crowd around it, unlike the iPad section.

The cameras a welcome addition but i can't see the logic in the phone. I couldn't see myself holding that to my ear.

Perhaps Del Boy but certainly not i.



So a bit too big for a phone and too small to enjoy the iPad like experience. An inbetweeny.
Apple please don't go 7-inch.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #26 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Why are all these RIM videos of rendered images being manipulated, where are the actual devices running the OS?

1. Here is a video of the playbook actually running. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hoAzojQh0

2. With the same resolution as the IPAD, you have a better looking Playbook screen since it will be more pixel dense. And if you say it's not, your full of crap since it's the same premise for the Iphone 4 Retina display.

3. The IPad is to big and clumsy in my opinion (Yes I OWN a non 3g Ipad). Not pocketable, and the 4:3 ratio screen, I mean c'mon, really.

4. As for developing for the playbook, I develop with Adobe Air, and I've already started making apps and it was a breeze. And with the "Get a Free Playbook with a approved App before launch" I'm sure plenty of people will jump on it.

5. I need enterprise level security for my medical apps. And out of box Blackberry delivers.

6. If you watched the live video I posted of the device running, you will actually see it playing the HD video while running in multitask mode.

7. USB, and HDMI ports, and dual HD Cams, oh thats right, not on the Ipad.

8. Playbook has EXPANDABLE MEMORY which is my #1 complaint about the ipad.

You Fanboys best get your heads out your nether regions and recognize a credible threat.
post #27 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post

You got it right. They're not even smart enough to figure out that a device named PLAYbook will hardly be considered appropriate by IT departments. What a fail.

Thats the silliest thing I've read yet. An Ipad is any better?
post #28 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

since screen area isn't everything and some people value other characteristics more, inclusive the simple price.

Screen Size isn't everything? Anyone who ever used a tablet could tell you that there is definitely a threshold point for usability, and 7" is just too small for a tablet. Besides, my comment was about competitive pricing. There is a huge cost difference between a 7" and 9.7" screen of similar performance. Since screen is the biggest single cost element in a tablet, that's why claiming that the PlayBook is competitively priced to the iPad is nonsense. It has nothing to do with brand loyalties.

BTW, when you mention those "other values" that the PlayBook may have (remember, right now it's not much more than vaporware), are you referring to the 40,000+ apps specifically designed for this screen format that the iPad has and the PlayBook will NOT have?
post #29 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post

Screen Size isn't everything? Anyone who ever used a tablet could tell you that there is definitely a threshold point for usability, and 7" is just too small for a tablet. Besides, my comment was about competitive pricing. There is a huge cost difference between a 7" and 9.7" screen of similar performance. Since screen is the biggest single cost element in a tablet, that's why claiming that the PlayBook is competitively priced to the iPad is nonsense. It has nothing to do with brand loyalties.

BTW, when you mention those "other values" that the PlayBook may have (remember, right now it's not much more than vaporware), are you referring to the 40,000+ apps specifically designed for this screen format that the iPad has and the PlayBook will NOT have?

Similar performance is yet to be seen. As my Ipad cannot multitask like the Playbook can. See video I posted above. And I disagree about screen size usability whole heartedly, since the resolution is the same. I will agree that cost may be less, but I'm not sure.
post #30 of 133
Based on the Gizmodo review of the Samsung Galaxy Tab (spoiler: it sucks),

http://gizmodo.com/5686161/samsung-g...le-train-wreck

where many of the negatives are directly related to screen size, I think it's a good possibility that all of these 7" tablets, including RIM's, will fail. I know some people can't stand it when Steve Jobs is right, but his comments on 7" screens seem to be pretty much spot on in this case.
post #31 of 133
Geez, folks lighten up. The Apple bashers are sure out in force today. Until we actually see one and how it's touch screen works (or doesn't) it's a little premature to say it's an iPad killer or that it's DOA. Gut feeling is that it won't be much competition, but I say just let it play out. And if it pushes Apple to continue to stay 3 or 4 steps ahead, that's a good thing.
post #32 of 133
[QUOTE=NoodlesNoodlemann;1749730]Geez, folks lighten up. The Apple bashers are sure out in force today. Until we actually see one and how it's touch screen works (or doesn't) it's a little premature to say it's an iPad killer or that it's DOA. Gut feeling is that it won't be much competition, but I say just let it play out. And if it pushes Apple to continue to stay 3 or 4 steps ahead, that's a good thing.[/QUOTE}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hoAzojQh0 Video of the device in ACTION!
post #33 of 133
How much will the ecosystem cost?

I'll want more than 34 apps, 27 of which will probably be Solitaire.
post #34 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post

Another company copying Apple products...hope they flop!!

Wouldn't that be great! Let us all hope that RIM become a miserable wretch, a mere shadow of its former self!

Then we'd all be better off! We'd all then be in a position to congratulate ourselves for choosing a different product. After all, you ARE what you BUY.


I hope that every product by every other company flops if it in any manner resembles anything made by Apple.

</sarcasm>
post #35 of 133
[QUOTE=Kuttysark;1749731]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

Geez, folks lighten up. The Apple bashers are sure out in force today. Until we actually see one and how it's touch screen works (or doesn't) it's a little premature to say it's an iPad killer or that it's DOA. Gut feeling is that it won't be much competition, but I say just let it play out. And if it pushes Apple to continue to stay 3 or 4 steps ahead, that's a good thing.[/QUOTE}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hoAzojQh0 Video of the device in ACTION!

Video and your recommendations aside, I think I will just wait and see what the market says. That will be the only true test of it's success or lack thereof. I really don't care one way or another. Competition is always good. But I've seen many videos of products that are yet to be introduced and they don't mean squat unless people buy the product, do they?
post #36 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauerg View Post

(I never understood why RIM called this tablet for corporate users "Playbook.)

.

Playbook does not refer to a leisure item, but a coaches Playbook, with all of their plays and strategy. This was the clear use in the keynote address, and all of the other meanings were generated by the press looking knock the product.
post #37 of 133
I think I'll check one out before I pass judgment on it.
post #38 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Cortex A9? HDMI out? 2 HD cameras? There is more to it than screen size.

Apple will release a new iPad in January with all of this... and for the same price.

Also, when did Apple fanatics start championing screen size since last i heard most were crying about the paltry 3.5 on the iPhone

It's a different device. There is a sweet spot for the size of a phone, just as there is a sweet spot for the size of a tablet.
post #39 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post

Another company copying Apple products...hope they flop!!

And apple doesn't copy other products? You don't think the ipod or the iphone are copies of other products?
post #40 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post

I think I'll check one out before I pass judgment on it.

You've just rendered AI forums useless!
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