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Review roundup: Samsung's Galaxy Tab, the iPad's first "real" competitor - Page 4

post #121 of 188
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Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

People like tjw think they are common PC consumer while feeling elitist for using Linux, and they think they are the voice of reason in CE yet they ignore things like reliability, power consumption and compatibility. All they focus on is one aspect of the HW specs; the part they can brag to their Linux brethren about their souped up system that blows any vendor-made system away at a faction of the cost.

Naw, he just sounds a lot like Newtron and his sock-puppet factory aliases. I'm not positive, but the pattern is starting to solidify.
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post #122 of 188
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Originally Posted by tjw View Post

Boot camp on mac is not as straightforward for linux as installing it on a pc.

My boot camp experience and many others by the sounds of it with windows 7: http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&...ursor+bootcamp

Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.

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The hardware built into mac machines, ie the CPU, GPU, memory is sub standard compared with custom PCs that can be built for the same price. You cannot argue with that.

Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.

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Mac keyboards are just an annoyance to set up with linux, I can't use my magic mouse with linux. Two proprietary interface devices that I prefer not to use with linux.

Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.

Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?
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post #123 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.



Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.



Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.

Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?

My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.

OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.

I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.


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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

As for buying extra memory or drive capacity. What you say is true for EVERY vendor. One of the things you pay for when you spec up a machine for delivery is the convenience. Always has been and always will be that way. So comparing any produced box, Apple or otherwise, is a ridiculous exercise. Either you want to build it yourself, then none of the manufacturer prices matter. Or you don't and home brew component prices don't matter.


Really? Sub-standard memory? You think the OS knows anything about CAS latencies or ECC ratings? Maybe your problem is the Linux communities difficulties with accepting EFI for the comfort of BIOS rather than the components themselves. So I won't argue, I'll just laugh and walk away. [yes I know Linux can boot on EFI, I also know if the community lost it's fear of it, the EFI boot might not be more than a glorified hack]

Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.
post #124 of 188
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Originally Posted by tjw View Post

My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.

Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.



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OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.

Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff
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f***ing waste of space

? Childish. Wanna sucker?

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I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.

There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.


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Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.

Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.

Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.
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post #125 of 188
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

At <$400, there would not be many things you'd like about it.

I doubt we'd have universal accessibility to computers like we do today if the early innovators in this sector believed in setting a floor price on computing technology. Say what you will about the Wintel clan, but one of their greatest achievements is that they made computers universally attainable in a decade and a half. If Apple had one that battle, we'd still all be living in a world where only the rich kid on your street has a computer.

Don't underestimate the value of compromise. Not everybody needs an absolutely blazing machine with the latest and greatest UI and a top-notch UX.
post #126 of 188
The Tab has a market for it. But I doubt that it's as big as Samsung thinks it is. They screwed up royally with the price. They should have taken the hit on profitability and priced this thing at a maximum of $500. I get that they are trying to build value for their product and don't want to devalue it early. But at that price point, I can't see this thing selling.

But that said, I don't see this thing as a direct iPad competitor. There's a distinct niche that the Tab can fulfill. Where Jobs sees no value in the 7in size, there'd be millions of Kindle owners that might disagree with him. For anybody who wants portability and prizes that aspect over everything else, this would certainly be a perfect device. And let's face it, Apple's not going to put out a smaller iPad....especially after Jobs' comments.
post #127 of 188
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The New York Times

In his review for The New York Times, David Pogue called the new tablet "gorgeous and expensive." Pogue found that the device's diminutive size wasn't a significant issue, preferring to think of it as "like an extra-spacious Android phone" rather than a "cramped iPad." According to Pogue, the smaller size has a "huge" payoff, with the Tab weighing 13 ounces compared to the iPad's 1.5 pounds. Pogue enjoyed the portability of the device, noting that users can carry it in a blazer or jeans pocket.

So its an extra-specious Android phone that you can carry in a blazer or jeans pocket. Right beside the normal sized Android phone that does all the same things. Sounds like a fail to me!

The fact it can fit in your jeans pocket is exactly why this device isn't useful. Its not any different than a smartphone. I'm very cautious on whether or not consumers will find a need for the Tab. I guess we will have to see what the developer community thinks up because in the end its mostly about software.
post #128 of 188
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.





Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff ? Childish. Wanna sucker?



There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.




Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.

Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.


I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.

With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.

Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
post #129 of 188
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Originally Posted by tjw View Post

I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.

With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.

Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.

Newtron was the username of a troll on these forums.

BTW calling people "stupid fan boy" probably isn't a good idea.
post #130 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.

Sure, we can. Here it an argument:

I like OS X. It's great. I'd really like it to be portable, so I'll buy a laptop. I need a decent amount of processing power for my job, so I'll get a MacBook Pro–somewhere in the mid-range. To be compatible with the last few remaining apps that don't work in OS X, I'll install Windows 7 in Boot Camp and use it occasionally with [insert your choice of virtualization here]. I take a lot of flights, so I'd like to be able to play games during the wait. I have games in OS X because Valve, Rockstar, and many other developers are releasing native games, but for those that haven't, I have Windows 7 to play them in. I laugh at people who think I could take a "gaming desktop" on these flights with me, and also that I would find a need for a computer built "entirely" for gaming. That's an unnecessary waste, and I don't care enough to waste my time and money on it.

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With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.

Easy, tiger.

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Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.

Perhaps next time you won't assume that you're smarter than someone else. It's hilarious as all get out, but probably embarrassing for you, and it doesn't help your argument much.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #131 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.

No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.

Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.

But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #132 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.

With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.

Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.

Well I can totally see why you don't think I have responded intelligently. You continue to act like a boorish, lying moron constantly restating your positions to modify them in your latest attempt to dig out of the hole you have dug yourself. And this one isn' just me, I haven't yet seen another post that supports your shifting positions and several others that also take you to task for it. It kind of shows you don't understand what intelligence is.

You reaps what you sows. And your post have only sowed inconsistency, disrespect and absolutism which have been all to visible and easy to counter. You aren't even very good at trolling, no skill whatsoever. When you get so absolute that all the other posters can call you on your shifting fake positions everyone can see the game is over.

It would be interesting to see what manufactured flail you come up with next, but I think we all know it will be a weak position shift and attempted distraction from the facts of your previous posts via more whining. Bye newtron? You certainly act exactly like he did in his last couple days.
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post #133 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.

Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.

But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.

I bought the macbook pro in 2008, it served me well until I wanted to play games and take advantage of boot camp. I now prefer to use linux. Which I can do on my gaming pc better than a macbook pro.

I can't be bothered to quote the rest of you but let's just say I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.

Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard. Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!

Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.
post #134 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.

This isn't possible on ANY laptop that doesn't cost double what a MacBook Pro costs. High end gaming laptops with specs where you claim them are REALLY expensive. There are lots that claim to be high end, but really aren't. So either you are making things up for or a fool. I vote for fool because you have now transitioned to comparing a hobbyist white-box tower PC built PC to a laptop. Hell the GPU in a high end gaming machine takes enough power to drain a laptop battery in 10 minutes or less so the whole point is foolish to even bring up. It's like DuH! A Porsche 911 cant carry 2500# of bricks like a Dodge Hemi pickup!!! OMG!!!


Quote:
Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard.

Nobody is objecting to your definition just this:

Quote:
Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!

just because you can type de facto doesn't make it so.
There are 50+ layouts here. Not all Windows US ASCII, but with so many which all need to be supported by software, and are successfully I think your rantings about Linux not being able to handle a Mac US ASCII layout are pretty pathetic.

Quote:
Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.

Your retort is the one that's irrelevant. Again with the impossible comparison. It doesn't work when you complain a two year old laptop can't compete with a current maxed out gaming PC. That's a plain no-shit-Sherlock. Do we need to go back to bricks, pickups and sports cars?
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post #135 of 188
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Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

The Galaxy isn't an iPad alternative. It should never have been released.

We need to wait for Android 3.0 before any meaningful comparison can be made.

So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
post #136 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?

When was the first real competitor to the iPod released?
When was the first real competitor to the iPhone released?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #137 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?

Half a year... son.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
post #138 of 188
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Originally Posted by lav1daloca View Post

I disagree with Jobs on the size, I really like the 7" size or at least one that is a bit smaller than the current iPad but this Galaxy Tab is not good enough and it's price is way out of proportion.. its not even worth 200 bucks let alone 600! It is a DoA.

Haven't played with one yet (and don't own an iPad), but I'm with you in that I would love a good 7" pad. But this misses the price point, which is funny since everyone's always harping about Apple hardware being overpriced. If someone would put out a 7" pad that did nothing but offer a great net experience and a great interface and responsiveness for $400 I'd get it immediately. No 3rd party apps, no media playing, no camera. Where are all of those? I was at J & R in NYC the other day and played with a bunch of tablets and they all were completely uninspiring.
post #139 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

When was the first real competitor to the iPod released?
When was the first real competitor to the iPhone released?

The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably. There have not been any viable competitors since. Microsoft, Sony, Philips, Sandisk, Creative, Archos and i.River all produce decent devices, but none provide the whole user experience as well as Apple does, save the Zune HD, which quite simply, didn't have the momentum to succeed.

The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market. It has succeeded as a viable competitor, thanks to its open infrastructure and handset manufacturer and provider-friendly approach.

However, Android's weakness in in its strength. Although the Android approach was attractive to business partners and geeks who like to tinker around, this has come at the huge cost of fragmentation and lack of device integrity. Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.

The obvious competitor to the iPad is an Android-based tablet. However, Android will still have the same disadvantages in the tablet space as it does in the handset space, that being fragmentation, steep user learning curve and poor security.

Sneaking in the background, however, is HP and WebOS. If HP can provide a secure and reliable infrastructure, limit fragmentation, provide a well-integrated software and media store and gain enough momentum at launch, a WebOS tablet could surpass Android as a real iPad competitor. I don't doubt that this is what HP is thinking, and that this is what they are currently working on at what is probably a frantic pace.

In addition, Microsoft should be busy working on adapting WP7 to tablets (and let the ZuneOS die). But they won't. Microsoft are stupid and they still think the best tablet should be one that runs a desktop OS. Destined to fail. You don't slap a cup holder, bucket seats and an automatic transmission on a Vespa.
post #140 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

The Galaxy isn't an iPad alternative. It should never have been released.
We need to wait for Android 3.0 before any meaningful comparison can be made.

So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?

I'm not sure if that was a serious question or you are baiting in preparation for some retarded rant... I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt!!

As I'm not on the board of directors at Google/Samsung/Asus/Sony etc etc the obvious answer is "I couldn't say for sure".

What I can say with a degree of certainty that the first competitive Android tablet will be released some time after a version of Android that actually works with tablets is available, not before.

If I were to have a guess I would say it's going to take at least 3 months after the release of Android 2.3/3.0 for iPad competitors to arrive and maybe another 3 months or more for the larger screen sizes.
post #141 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably.

I suppose it depends on how you define "competitor". If you look at it as meaning a viable alternative then the Zune HD makes the cut.

However if you look at it as meaning a product that is "financially competitive" (as in how financially successful it is for the company that created the product) then Zune failed miserably indeed.

Actually I don't think any product comes close to being financially competitive in the same space as the iPod/iPhone/iPad. Apple has been printing money with the iDevice range for years.

I tend to see two products as competing against each other if one is an alternative to the other. Of course that is totally open to interpretation. Some people may think that an iPhone with Kindle is a competitor to a paperback book.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market.

Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.

I'm starting to see Android as the Linux of the mobile world. Apple is Apple and Microsoft is Microsoft. That's not to say the market share ratios will play out the same.
post #142 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

This isn't possible on ANY laptop that doesn't cost double what a MacBook Pro costs. High end gaming laptops with specs where you claim them are REALLY expensive. There are lots that claim to be high end, but really aren't. So either you are making things up for or a fool. I vote for fool because you have now transitioned to comparing a hobbyist white-box tower PC built PC to a laptop. Hell the GPU in a high end gaming machine takes enough power to drain a laptop battery in 10 minutes or less so the whole point is foolish to even bring up. It's like DuH! A Porsche 911 cant carry 2500# of bricks like a Dodge Hemi pickup!!! OMG!!!




Nobody is objecting to your definition just this:



just because you can type de facto doesn't make it so. There are 50+ layouts here. Not all Windows US ASCII, but with so many which all need to be supported by software, and are successfully I think your rantings about Linux not being able to handle a Mac US ASCII layout are pretty pathetic.



Your retort is the one that's irrelevant. Again with the impossible comparison. It doesn't work when you complain a two year old laptop can't compete with a current maxed out gaming PC. That's a plain no-shit-Sherlock. Do we need to go back to bricks, pickups and sports cars?

For fuck sake! When are you going to get it? Are you really that stupid? Again I will repeat. This debate started because I stated my PERSONAL PREFERENCE of building a custom PC after my shoddy 2008 macbook pro died trying to install windows 7 and linux in boot camp. It was suggested that my macbook pro could have filled my gaming needs and the desire to run linux. It could not. End of. Not once have I mentioned any laptop being able to run games, not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops myself. Stop using irrelevant arguments.
post #143 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

For fuck sake! When are you going to get it? Are you really that stupid? Again I will repeat. This debate started because I stated my PERSONAL PREFERENCE of building a custom PC after my shoddy 2008 macbook pro died trying to install windows 7 and linux in boot camp. It was suggested that my macbook pro could have filled my gaming needs and the desire to run linux. It could not. End of. Not once have I mentioned any laptop being able to run games, not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops myself. Stop using irrelevant arguments.

I get it. You're so fucking stupid that for some reason you thought you were in the "laptops aren't as good at gaming as custom desktop pc's" thread. Go find that thread, please, and stop making arguments that are both inane and irrelevant to the topic at hand. Kthanks? Bye.
post #144 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

For fuck sake! When are you going to get it? Are you really that stupid? Again I will repeat. This debate started because I stated my PERSONAL PREFERENCE of building a custom PC after my shoddy 2008 macbook pro died trying to install windows 7 and linux in boot camp. It was suggested that my macbook pro could have filled my gaming needs and the desire to run linux. It could not. End of. Not once have I mentioned any laptop being able to run games, not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops myself. Stop using irrelevant arguments.

No. Again, you started out by claiming Apple's proprietary formats lead to lock-in (and you still haven't cited any examples). You claimed that Apple's hardware offerings were substandard, and that Apple keyboard was "proprietary", whatever that means. You made an entirely circular argument about Mac hardware being "non-standard" because the standard is, by definition, the majority platform (I could just as easily complain about Linux on the same grounds, wondering why it doesn't just stop being stupid and non-standard and become Windows). You also claimed that attempting to install Linux killed your motherboard, which seems pretty unlikely. Those aren't opinions, they're falsehoods or misunderstandings being presented as fact.

I can't even parse what "it was suggested that my Macbook Pro could have filled my gaming needs/not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops" means. When the MacBook Pro was suggested why didn't you shout "I have no desire to have that sub standard experience, leave me to my custom PCs, fool!" Do you just not know much about computers? Did you not understand the limitations of laptops at the time, or the "shoddiness" of Apple laptops in particular, or do no research whatsoever into the appropriateness of a MacBook Pro for running Linux as you wished?

Yelling that you were just stating personal opinions, at this point, seems like backtracking after getting called out on some pretty indefensible stuff. No one here thinks you should be forced to use Linux for gaming on a MacBook Pro, but some of us wonder why you thought that was a good idea in the first place ("suggestions" notwithstanding).

FYI, referring to the MacBook pro as "shoddy" and "a waste of space" does suggest that you have issues with the platform beyond what you've described. Whatever other complaints folks might have about Apple or Apple hardware, very few people would describe the MacBook Pro as shoddy or a waste of space.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #145 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

For fuck sake! When are you going to get it? Are you really that stupid? Again I will repeat...

Instead of getting so worked up about it I suggest the following:
  • Make a list of the users that you don't want to hear from.
  • Go to the top of the page and click on User CP
  • On the left side under Settings & Options click on Edit Ignore List
  • Add each member in your list one by one
  • All posts by your ignored users will be hidden
post #146 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

No. Again, you started out by claiming Apple's proprietary formats lead to lock-in (and you still haven't cited any examples). You claimed that Apple's hardware offerings were substandard, and that Apple keyboard was "proprietary", whatever that means. You made an entirely circular argument about Mac hardware being "non-standard" because the standard is, by definition, the majority platform (I could just as easily complain about Linux on the same grounds, wondering why it doesn't just stop being stupid and non-standard and become Windows). You also claimed that attempting to install Linux killed your motherboard, which seems pretty unlikely. Those aren't opinions, they're falsehoods or misunderstandings being presented as fact.

I can't even parse what "it was suggested that my Macbook Pro could have filled my gaming needs/not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops" means. When the MacBook Pro was suggested why didn't you shout "I have no desire to have that sub standard experience, leave me to my custom PCs, fool!" Do you just not know much about computers? Did you not understand the limitations of laptops at the time, or the "shoddiness" of Apple laptops in particular, or do no research whatsoever into the appropriateness of a MacBook Pro for running Linux as you wished?

Yelling that you were just stating personal opinions, at this point, seems like backtracking after getting called out on some pretty indefensible stuff. No one here thinks you should be forced to use Linux for gaming on a MacBook Pro, but some of us wonder why you thought that was a good idea in the first place ("suggestions" notwithstanding).

FYI, referring to the MacBook pro as "shoddy" and "a waste of space" does suggest that you have issues with the platform beyond what you've described. Whatever other complaints folks might have about Apple or Apple hardware, very few people would describe the MacBook Pro as shoddy or a waste of space.

FYI MY macbook pro is shoddy and a waste of space since it broke trying to use boot camp to install windows 7.

I built a custom PC to get away from the problems of my macbook pro. One of the benefits of this was that I was now able to play games at high spec on my computer, this was not possible on the MBP. This is all I have stated yet some of you insist on trying to suggest I should be running them at lesser settings on a MBP instead so I can cart it to the airport with me.

Having been a mac user for 3 years I am now a convert to Linux and occasionally Windows.

Some propriety lock in standards through apple (just in case you don't read the press):

1) All Itunes store music older than whenever they released DRM free music. I bought a lot of music before this date and yet apple are trying to charge me to upgrade it to DRM free. This is a price I have to pay to take me outside the eco-system.

2) Itunes rentals/movies - I can only easily play these on apple hardware or a PC with Itunes.

3) Mobile applications - I can only ever use these on mac hardware. With android I can choose between a number of devices and take my apps with me. I understand this is not something that apple should necessarily change or could even change but still it is a limitation to the apple eco system. This is made worse by their locked down dev policy but that is another topic altogether.

4) Streaming video - I can only play my videos on apple devices through a big screen TV if I have an apple TV, which personally offers me nothing I can't get from my TV provider in the UK as part of a package.

Transferring to apple products is easy. Getting out again once you are using their eco system to full capacity is much more difficult.

Apples keyboard is not standard layout in the UK.
post #147 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

FYI MY macbook pro is shoddy and a waste of space since it broke trying to use boot camp to install windows 7.

This is gonna be good: What right do you have to use the word 'broke'? What happened?

Quote:
I built a custom PC to get away from the problems of my macbook pro. One of the benefits of this was that I was now able to play games at high spec on my computer, this was not possible on the MBP.

IT'S A LAPTOP, FOR FRICK'S SAKE.

Quote:
2) Itunes rentals/movies - I can only easily play these on apple hardware or a PC with Itunes.

Blame the studios, not Apple.

Quote:
3) Mobile applications - I can only ever use these on mac hardware.

FRICK DOY. How stupid do you have to be to not understand this? They can't work on any other operating system, anyway. That's how it works. Do you whine about not being able to use Windows apps in Linux or vice versa?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #148 of 188
The Galaxy Tab I had a go with at the store was slow and unresponsive. The screen wasn't very precise to the touch and apps took a while to load. It was like using the internet on the old blackberrys when they first came out...not worth it. The user interface is messy and non-intuitive too. After a few mins I was frustrated and bored with it. Its fat too. Its not a great competitor to the ipad. Also, I reckon tjw is badly socialised and for practice I suggests he/she goes to the local bar and finds some strangers to interact with in the same way to see what happens in real life.
post #149 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is gonna be good: What right do you have to use the word 'broke'? What happened?



IT'S A LAPTOP, FOR FRICK'S SAKE.



Blame the studios, not Apple.



FRICK DOY. How stupid do you have to be to not understand this? They can't work on any other operating system, anyway. That's how it works. Do you whine about not being able to use Windows apps in Linux or vice versa?

It broke: My MBP would not load the bootcamp installer for installing windows 7. Instead I got a black screen with a blinking cursor. I tried numerous times and after about 4 attempts the laptop would not load the EFI. The logic board was fried. If you are familiar with early 2008 MBP you will know this is a common problem, hence I was able to get it fixed free of charge. After this I tried again and got the same blinking cursor with 3 different install disks and an apple 'genius' was not able to understand why it was not working either. Was that good enough for you? I know you don't believe that anything with a pretty little apple on can break so I offer my sincere apologies when breaking this to you.

In the mean time I built a custom PC as I needed to run windows for work, TO GET OVER THE DIFFICULTIES I HAD WITH MY MBP. I did not need the mobility of a laptop so I chose to build a desktop. It also had the added benefit of being able to run games. My argument that you can't on a MBP was in response to another poster suggesting I could.

Blame the studios not apple? Yet I understand Netflix has no problem running on multiple devices. It is not the studios fault that I can't run an itunes movie on anything else other than itunes or mac hardware it is apple's closed eco system.

About the mobile applications, did you read all that I wrote? I compared it to android and said there you have choice in your device without losing your apps. With apple you have the choice of the one phone they make that is all. I also added that this is not something apple should or could change I was stating it is limitation of going with the apple eco system. Frick doy, you are an ass. Read before you insult my intelligence.
post #150 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

3) Mobile applications - I can only ever use these on mac hardware. With android I can choose between a number of devices and take my apps with me.

Actually, I want to clarify something here. Can you buy a paid app on one Android device, and then transfer it to another Android device when you change devices? How does this work? Is it linked to a user account like it is with Apple devices? If so, then how is Android different in any way than Apple, except that there are a million fragmented products instead of just a few?

All I know is that I think the Apple way of dealing with this is great. Even if you lose an iPhone, you just plug the new one in and all your apps and data are restored automatically. You can use your apps freely on every iOS device linked to your iTunes account. Does Android do this differently?
post #151 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

It broke: My MBP would not load the bootcamp installer for installing windows 7. Instead I got a black screen with a blinking cursor. I tried numerous times and after about 4 attempts the laptop would not load the EFI. The logic board was fried. If you are familiar with early 2008 MBP you will know this is a common problem, hence I was able to get it fixed free of charge. After this I tried again and got the same blinking cursor with 3 different install disks and an apple 'genius' was not able to understand why it was not working either. Was that good enough for you? I know you don't believe that anything with a pretty little apple on can break so I offer my sincere apologies when breaking this to you.

First of all, I think your story is made up.

Secondly, even if it's true, a million people have successfully installed Windows 7 on Bootcamp on a MacBook Pro, and one person screws it up repeatedly and it's Apple's fault?

Third, Windows 7 wasn't released until late 2009, so what on earth were you doing with your "early 2008" MacBook Pro before then?
post #152 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

First of all, I think your story is made up.

Secondly, even if it's true, a million people have successfully installed Windows 7 on Bootcamp on a MacBook Pro, and one person screws it up repeatedly and it's Apple's fault?

Third, Windows 7 wasn't released until late 2009, so what on earth were you doing with your "early 2008" MacBook Pro before then?

It is not made up. That would be a pretty elaborate thing to make up don't you think? Come off it. If I felt the need to defend myself I could publish the receipts from the computer repair shop I took it to and the following email I received from an apple service centre.

It screwed up repeatedly because of the hardware, I guess you are insulting the intelligence of apple geniuses as well as me then. They could not find the problem and suggested I upgrade to a 2010 model, which is fine if I have another £1200 to spend....

In response to your third comment: Obviously I tried to install windows 7 after it was released. Before then I was using mac osx and after I graduated this year I needed windows 7 for my job.
post #153 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Actually, I want to clarify something here. Can you buy a paid app on one Android device, and then transfer it to another Android device when you change devices? How does this work? Is it linked to a user account like it is with Apple devices? If so, then how is Android different in any way than Apple, except that there are a million fragmented products instead of just a few?

All I know is that I think the Apple way of dealing with this is great. Even if you lose an iPhone, you just plug the new one in and all your apps and data are restored automatically. You can use your apps freely on every iOS device linked to your iTunes account. Does Android do this differently?

You have just stated how it is different. There is consumer choice. I choose a handset I like that runs android, sign in to my new phone and download my apps. You don't even need to involve a computer to do this. With apple I have to get the latest iphone when I upgrade or lose my apps. The only choice is apple. Again this is fine if you are happy with apple but this is still a limitation when compared with the choice you have with other platforms.
post #154 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

It broke: My MBP would not load the bootcamp installer for installing windows 7. Instead I got a black screen with a blinking cursor. I tried numerous times and after about 4 attempts the laptop would not load the EFI. The logic board was fried.

Software cannot do this.
 

Quote:
If you are familiar with early 2008 MBP you will know this is a common problem, hence I was able to get it fixed free of charge.

I have one. Using it right now. It is not a common problem. Software cannot do this. The GPUs are worthless, but installing Windows won't fry anything.


Tim Cook will go down in history as one of the worst CEOs the world has ever seen.  mark it down.

 

You're a complete idiot.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #155 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

For fuck sake! When are you going to get it? Are you really that stupid? Again I will repeat. This debate started because I stated my PERSONAL PREFERENCE of building a custom PC after my shoddy 2008 macbook pro died trying to install windows 7 and linux in boot camp. It was suggested that my macbook pro could have filled my gaming needs and the desire to run linux. It could not. End of. Not once have I mentioned any laptop being able to run games, not once have I expressed the desire to have the sub standard experience of running games on laptops myself. Stop using irrelevant arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I get it. You're so fucking stupid that for some reason you thought you were in the "laptops aren't as good at gaming as custom desktop pc's" thread. Go find that thread, please, and stop making arguments that are both inane and irrelevant to the topic at hand. Kthanks? Bye.

Wow! There is a fine piece of concise advice! Well played sir.
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post #156 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

You have just stated how it is different. There is consumer choice. I choose a handset I like that runs android, sign in to my new phone and download my apps. You don't even need to involve a computer to do this. With apple I have to get the latest iphone when I upgrade or lose my apps. The only choice is apple. Again this is fine if you are happy with apple but this is still a limitation when compared with the choice you have with other platforms.

You really want to go there? Are you that much up for showing a complete lack of logic before keystroke? Well I guess you were.

When you buy an Apple iPhone, you bought an Apple iPhone. When you buy a Windows Phone you get a Windows phone. When you buy a WebOS phone you get a WebOS phone. When you buy an Android phone you get an Android phone. When you buy a Mac, you get a Mac. When you buy a Windows OS you get a Windows OS. When you buy a PS3 you get a PS3. When you buy a PS2 you get a PS2. When you get an Xbox, you get an Xbox. When you buy an Xbox360 you get and Xbox360. Do I need to add to the near endless list?

Now a little quiz. Can you identify the single common issue?

How about, buying software for any one of those means you cannot run it on any other one of those. [there was a short time they the PS3 running PS2 games thing was technically possible, but it was so expensive it was discontinued after just about a month of production]. So what part of buying into a platform has your formidable lack of intellect not grokked? Oh that's right, all of it whenever it comes to posting.

This isn't even a standards thing, this is a platform thing. And it will continue to be a platform thing forever, because different designers think they have better solutions than the other guy. Whether they are or not is for the market to decide. The fact that the platform exists as a platform not compatible with any particular other is not for you to pass judgement on.Only the designers and producers get a vote in that. The only vote you get on that paradigm is which platform to spend $$ on. So get over the fake posturing trying to vilify one platform when the issues you are commenting on are the business of business itself, completely outside of any technical solutions.
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post #157 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

You really want to go there? Are you that much up for showing a complete lack of logic before keystroke? Well I guess you were.

When you buy an Apple iPhone, you bought an Apple iPhone. When you buy a Windows Phone you get a Windows phone. When you buy a WebOS phone you get a WebOS phone. When you buy an Android phone you get an Android phone. When you buy a Mac, you get a Mac. When you buy a Windows OS you get a Windows OS. When you buy a PS3 you get a PS3. When you buy a PS2 you get a PS2. When you get an Xbox, you get an Xbox. When you buy an Xbox360 you get and Xbox360. Do I need to add to the near endless list?

Now a little quiz. Can you identify the single common issue?

How about, buying software for any one of those means you cannot run it on any other one of those. [there was a short time they the PS3 running PS2 games thing was technically possible, but it was so expensive it was discontinued after just about a month of production]. So what part of buying into a platform has your formidable lack of intellect not grokked? Oh that's right, all of it whenever it comes to posting.

This isn't even a standards thing, this is a platform thing. And it will continue to be a platform thing forever, because different designers think they have better solutions than the other guy. Whether they are or not is for the market to decide. The fact that the platform exists as a platform not compatible with any particular other is not for you to pass judgement on.Only the designers and producers get a vote in that. The only vote you get on that paradigm is which platform to spend $$ on. So get over the fake posturing trying to vilify one platform when the issues you are commenting on are the business of business itself, completely outside of any technical solutions.

Thanks for the quiz, I spot a flaw in your argument. Here is a quiz for you:

Scenario 1:
I buy an iphone, I buy 70 applications from the app store. My iphone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? Suppose I dislike the new iphone for some reason, may be I see other phones which I find more attractive. But oh I have 70 applications on the iphone. Damn but I must get the new iphone if I don't want these apps to go to waste.

Scenario 2:
I buy a Windows phone 7 phone. I buy 70 applications from the marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 7 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Scenario 3:
I buy an android phone. I buy 70 applications from the marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 20 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Scenario 4:
I buy a blackberry. I buy 70 applications from the blackberry marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 4 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Can you spot the pattern?

Other eco systems give you choice. I am not saying apple should change and make more phones. I was asked to point out limitations in their ecosystem and this is one.
post #158 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

Thanks for the quiz, I spot a flaw in your argument. Here is a quiz for you:

Scenario 1:
I buy an iphone, I buy 70 applications from the app store. My iphone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? Suppose I dislike the new iphone for some reason, may be I see other phones which I find more attractive. But oh I have 70 applications on the iphone. Damn but I must get the new iphone if I don't want these apps to go to waste.

Scenario 2:
I buy a Windows phone 7 phone. I buy 70 applications from the marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 7 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Scenario 3:
I buy an android phone. I buy 70 applications from the marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 20 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Scenario 4:
I buy a blackberry. I buy 70 applications from the blackberry marketplace. My phone becomes out of date. Which phone should I buy? I don't like the new version of my particular model but hey there are at least 4 other phones that I can choose from, all slightly different, all running my previously purchased applications. Hoooray choice and no need to lose my apps.

Can you spot the pattern?

Other eco systems give you choice. I am not saying apple should change and make more phones. I was asked to point out limitations in their ecosystem and this is one.

Yes I can spot the pattern. You don't understand what a platform buying decision is. You cannot cross from platform to platform without loss. That's why they are defined as different platforms... Trying to avoid that by saying ecosystem doesn't change anything,the ecosystems are the platforms, pure and simple.

You are so narrow minded in your defense you can't see you aren't ever buying an interchangable device. Every DEVICE purchase you make you are buying into A PLATFORM. Your set of scenarios are contrived and completely avoid the idea of platform in any of the purchase decisions. That's artificial and out of touch with the reality of the situation.

Basic logic. If your assumptions are fallacious, all conclusions based upon them are fallacious. Pretty simple really.

You aren't very neighborly either. You call me an idiot. A direct unvarnished ad hom attack and not the first. I comment on the illogic and flawed nature of your posts, the writing on the page, and thought it represents. Just basic debate. Go ahead with that pattern of yours some more, I think a lot of us here would enjoy seeing you get a vacation for violation of the posting guidelines.
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post #159 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Yes I can spot the pattern. You don't understand what a platform buying decision is. You cannot cross from platform to platform without loss. That's why they are defined as different platforms... Trying to avoid that by saying ecosystem doesn't change anything,the ecosystems are the platforms, pure and simple.

You are so narrow minded in your defense you can't see you aren't ever buying an interchangable device. Every DEVICE purchase you make you are buying into A PLATFORM. Your set of scenarios are contrived and completely avoid the idea of platform in any of the purchase decisions. That's artificial and out of touch with the reality of the situation.

Basic logic. If your assumptions are fallacious, all conclusions based upon them are fallacious. Pretty simple really.

You aren't very neighborly either. You call me an idiot. A direct unvarnished ad hom attack and not the first. I comment on the illogic and flawed nature of your posts, the writing on the page, and thought it represents. Just basic debate. Go ahead with that pattern of yours some more, I think a lot of us here would enjoy seeing you get a vacation for violation of the posting guidelines.

Correction: You insult me with a patronizing 'quiz' to push your own agenda. All I have done is explained a lock in to the apple ecosystem, in mobile apps. When you buy an iphone you are limited to whatever the new iphone is when you come to upgrade. When you buy a phone on another platform that I have mentioned then you have a much wider choice of an upgrade handset in that platform without losing your apps. What is contrived about that example? Correct. Nothing.
post #160 of 188
The problem is that with Android, what happens when you decide that you don't like the Android OS and want to get an iPhone or a BlackBerry or a WP7 phone?

Android handsets are like fart apps. There sure are a lot of them to choose from, but they all suck. I'd rather stick with my limited choice of three iOS devices, thanks.
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