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Oracle and Apple announce OpenJDK Project for Java on Mac OS X

post #1 of 43
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Oracle and Apple on Friday announced a new partnership that will bring the Java SE 7 and future versions of Java for Mac OS X to users directly from Oracle.

With the OpenJDK project for Mac OS X, Apple will contribute most of the key components, tools and technology required for a Java SE 7 implementation on Mac OS X, including a 32-bit and 64-bit HotSpot-based Java virtual machine, class libraries, a networking stack and the foundation for a new graphical client. OpenJDK will make Apple's Java technology available to open source developers so they can access and contribute to the effort.

"We are excited to welcome Apple as a significant contributor in the growing OpenJDK community," said Hasan Rizvi, Oracle’s senior vice president of Development. "The availability of Java on Mac OS X plays a key role in the cross-platform promise of the Java platform. The Java developer community can rest assured that the leading edge Java environment will continue to be available on Mac OS X in the future. Combined with last month’s announcement of IBM joining the OpenJDK, the project now has the backing of three of the biggest names in software."

Apple also said that Java SE 6 will continue to be available from Apple for Mac OS X Snow Leopard and the upcoming release of Mac OS X Lion. Java SE 7 and future versions of Java for Mac OS X will be available from Oracle.

"We’re delighted to be working with Oracle to insure that there continues to be a great version of Java on the Mac," said Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s senior vice president of Software Engineering. "The best way for our users to always have the most up-to-date and secure version of Java will be to get it directly from Oracle."

Java is a general purpose software development platform that is specifically designed to be open and enable application developers to "write once, run anywhere." The Java platform is most widely used in business software, Web and mobile applications.

In October, Apple announced it would deprecate Java for Mac OS X, meaning the company would no longer issue its own updates for Java. Apple's note said that the Java runtime could be removed altogether from future versions of Mac OS X.

An e-mail claimed to be from Apple CEO Steve Jobs said that his company decided it would no longer develop their own Java for Mac because their updates were always a version behind the official releases from Oracle and Sun. Jobs allegedly said that the current method "may not be the best way to do it."
post #2 of 43
To everyone who said I was full of crap when I said this was in the works, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #3 of 43
Excellent to hear that Apple isn't going to abandon or block Java on OS X for the time being. While on the decline, it's still useful for many things.
post #4 of 43
Expect similar announcements WRT server technologies.
post #5 of 43
When Apple dropped their JDK everyone thought the sky was falling. I'm glad it turns out Apple was simply returning the keys of the car back to the owner.
post #6 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

To everyone who said I was full of crap when I said this was in the works, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Thanks. From now on, I'll believe everything I read on internets.
post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

When Apple dropped their JDK everyone thought the sky was falling. I'm glad it turns out Apple was simply returning the keys of the car back to the owner.

It's similar to what Apple is doing with Flash player on Macs. Install directly from Adobe and let them supply updates and patches. The last SL update, 10.6.5, spent much of it's payload in fixing Flash vulnerabilities and bugs, time better spent by Apple in fixing it's own bugs.
post #8 of 43
It always made sense to me that Apple would either provide its work (quite considerable) for the community to support, or arrange with Oracle. Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison are close friends, if the reports are accurate. It doesn't take much of a nudge from either end for things like this to be organized.

p.s. the one thing that puzzles me is why it wasn't announced earlier, which would have avoided all the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth. That may be related to the fight that Oracle is having with the Java community, and the fact that Apple has now taken sides in it.
post #9 of 43
Finally some good news.

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post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

To everyone who said I was full of crap when I said this was in the works, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Expect similar announcements WRT server technologies.

Nope, didn't see that coming at all. LOL Steve and Larry are too good of friends to not have talked about this before Apple's announcement regarding Java. I also had the same thoughts about OS X Server and virtualization. And let's not forget Apple's huge new server farm. Anyone know who's providing the big iron for that? Over a decade ago Ellison was promoting the concept of thin clients with everything running in the cloud (although it wasn't called the cloud back then). He wanted everything running on Oracle servers and users only have lightweight clients (MacBook Air, anyone?) Not to mention potential implications of the recently discussed Apple patent to easily hand tasks back and forth between computers.

Lot's of possibilities...
post #11 of 43
Problem solved.
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Excellent to hear that Apple isn't going to abandon or block Java on OS X for the time being. While on the decline, it's still useful for many things.

Java as a language ticked down slightly, but the JVM is continuing its upward trajectory. There are now half a dozen solid languages that run on the JVM, and it's the most popular ISA for server software by far and shows no decline there.
post #13 of 43
Phew. Way to come through, Apple and Oracle! Well done. I guess it pays to be best buds with Larry Ellison.
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Java as a language ticked down slightly, but the JVM is continuing its upward trajectory. There are now half a dozen solid languages that run on the JVM, and it's the most popular ISA for server software by far and shows no decline there.

Yes, indeed. Scala is an amazing language though, and so is Clojure. I'm glad JVM continues to live on.

Speaking of which, I was ticked that Apple would deprecate something as sophisticated as JVM, when they are trying to get to the same sate of the art level where JVM is now with the LLVM project.

Glad to see them contributing to the OpenJDK. This is better news than Apple continuing to provide the JVM themselves. It was actually a little too good to be true option, so I didn't think it would happen. But I'm glad I was wrong .

Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Expect similar announcements WRT server technologies.

I hope you're right.
post #16 of 43
Perhaps Apple is considering purchasing Oracle.
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

Speaking of which, I was ticked that Apple would deprecate something as sophisticated as JVM, when they are trying to get to the same sate of the art level where JVM is now with the LLVM project.

LLVM vs JVM are apples and oranges. LLVM, as its name implies, is extremely low-level and much, much closer to a modern CPU's ISA. Apple has used it to recompile shaders between x86, nVidia, and ATI so the same code can run on any (or no) video acceleration. This has been in MacOS X for years. Now LLVM is increasingly taking the place of GCC as a intermediate ISA that's easier to optimize before things are compiled to their final processor. That allows them to have common optimizers that work for x86, ARM, etc.

JVM is much, much more heavyweight. It's awesome for dev environments, server middleware, control systems, etc. But it doesn't serve as well as an intermediate step for optimization nor a way to get shaders onto new GPUs.
post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Expect similar announcements WRT server technologies.

Exactly!

Apple likes to wake you up before it kisses you -- except the server gambit was a bit over the top.

But, in pure Apple fashion, they get lots of free publicity at both ends.

"Boy meets girl"...

"Boy loses girl"...

... it all works out in the "final reel".

.
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post #19 of 43
Sensible solution. No drama.
post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

To everyone who said I was full of crap when I said this was in the works, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

I also kept saying Larry and Steve would do something.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Nope, didn't see that coming at all. LOL Steve and Larry are too good of friends to not have talked about this before Apple's announcement regarding Java. I also had the same thoughts about OS X Server and virtualization. And let's not forget Apple's huge new server farm. Anyone know who's providing the big iron for that? Over a decade ago Ellison was promoting the concept of thin clients with everything running in the cloud (although it wasn't called the cloud back then). He wanted everything running on Oracle servers and users only have lightweight clients (MacBook Air, anyone?) Not to mention potential implications of the recently discussed Apple patent to easily hand tasks back and forth between computers.

Lot's of possibilities...

100% agree.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMacker View Post

Perhaps Apple is considering purchasing Oracle.

I suspect 142.72B might be a bit steep even for Apple but they make a great fit working together.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

While on the decline, it's still useful for many things.

Java in the enterprise is still very prominent. it's only in the consumer market where there isn't as much traction.
post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by plovell View Post

... That may be related to the fight that Oracle is having with the Java community, and the fact that Apple has now taken sides in it. ...

Oracle is not in a fight with the Java community, unless you consider Google the Java community, or the Java community are stupid enough that they do. And, Apple isn't involved in that in any way, so they haven't taken any sides, other than to insure that Java continues to move forward on the Mac platform, now that there is a cooperative partner to work with.
post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Oracle is not in a fight with the Java community, unless you consider Google the Java community, or the Java community are stupid enough that they do. And, Apple isn't involved in that in any way, so they haven't taken any sides, other than to insure that Java continues to move forward on the Mac platform, now that there is a cooperative partner to work with.

Perhaps you haven't been reading the news lately. Apache and Oracle are in a huge fight, and the Apache group is one of the biggest creators of Java libraries on the planet. At this point Apache is recommending a "No confidence" vote for the whole JCP process for JDK7, which would effectively dismantle the project.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Nope, didn't see that coming at all. LOL Steve and Larry are too good of friends to not have talked about this before Apple's announcement regarding Java. I also had the same thoughts about OS X Server and virtualization. And let's not forget Apple's huge new server farm. Anyone know who's providing the big iron for that? Over a decade ago Ellison was promoting the concept of thin clients with everything running in the cloud (although it wasn't called the cloud back then). He wanted everything running on Oracle servers and users only have lightweight clients (MacBook Air, anyone?) Not to mention potential implications of the recently discussed Apple patent to easily hand tasks back and forth between computers.

Lot's of possibilities...

Yeah! What you said!

I would add:

1) the iPad, with or without kb station as an Agile client -- when connected, the LAN or cloud does the heavy-lifting, when not, the device has self-contained capabilities.

2) an A4 based blade server in several configurations for:

2.1) standalone home media server
----- stream local content and apps to AppleTV, iPad, iPod Touches, iPhones
----- OTA setup and synch of these devices
----- serve, cache and stage local files to Macs, PCs and iPads
----- Staged backup ala TimeMachine, locally and synced with cloud

2,2) standalone SMB version as above
----- web server running XAMP stack

2.3) rack mounted version for enterprise
----- provide mobile iDevices as above
----- interface Servers running OS X Server for Mac specific network processing, e.g FCP Server
----- interface Servers running non - OS X apps, e.g Oracle apps, IBM apps

.
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by plovell View Post

p.s. the one thing that puzzles me is why it wasn't announced earlier, which would have avoided all the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth.

It happened pretty quickly considering that Oracle just recently acquired Java in the Sum Microsystems deal.

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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMacker View Post

Perhaps Apple is considering purchasing Oracle.

Other way 'round

Logical. as ORCL has 1/2 the market cap as APPL.

.
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Excellent to hear that Apple isn't going to abandon or block Java on OS X for the time being. While on the decline, it's still useful for many things.

This is excellent news indeed, but was more or less inevitable because Java is far, far too important for there not to be a first class implementation on the Mac. People who say it's on the decline or not relevant are thinking very narrowly, from the point of consumer applications, perhaps a few games or trivial browser applets, for which native iPhone or Cocoa are a very viable alternative.

The real importance of Java is for professional, educational, scientific, engineering and server-based enterprise applications. Even if those markets aren't as important to Apple as the consumer market, it still wouldn't be anyone's interest if universities and labs the world over started telling all their staff and students to sell their Mac Books and buy Linux or Windows laptops instead, because that was the only way they could run the software they need. Likewise the huge number of developers who choose to buy Macs for their professional work, because they can use it for developing server applications, but then develop great iPhone apps in their spare time because they've already got the hardware for it.
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Other way 'round

Logical. as ORCL has 1/2 the market cap as APPL.

.

lol. I considered turning my sentence around to read that Oracle could buy Apple after reading it to myself.
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Perhaps you haven't been reading the news lately. Apache and Oracle are in a huge fight, and the Apache group is one of the biggest creators of Java libraries on the planet. At this point Apache is recommending a "No confidence" vote for the whole JCP process for JDK7, which would effectively dismantle the project.

Yes, I apparently did miss that. Briefly, what exactly are the claims and counterclaims?
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Exactly!

Apple likes to wake you up before it kisses you -- except the server gambit was a bit over the top.

'cause I'm a million miles away
and at the same time
I'm right here in your
picture frame
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, I apparently did miss that. Briefly, what exactly are the claims and counterclaims?

Here are some links...
http://www.itworld.com/legal/127051/...acle-over-java
http://infoworld.com/d/developer-wor...uture-java-866

But to summarize, when Oracle sued Google and partnered with IBM, they also indirectly attached the Apache group. Android's Java-esque API is largely derived from Apache's work, and Google was the biggest contributor to their open implementation. The Eclipse Foundation also appears to be coming down on the side of Google/Apache rather than Oracle/IBM. Apple just apparently threw their hat into the Oracle/IBM ring. If the JCP process falls apart, though, it will become more or less a "proprietary with source available" license rather than the Free/Open Source Software license we have now, making it harder to integrate Java into the huge middleware infrastructure out there now...

Oracle's making quite a mess of things, and it's unclear how it's going to fall out.
post #34 of 43
It's all a power play.

Your open isn't open enough for me.

True Open Source contributors and Academics don't have enough say.


It's a gawdaful bunch of whining. Apache can take their toys and go home trying to kill the JCP, but when they get there they will still be developing Java software. JCP or not.
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post #35 of 43
Apple would never have deprecated Java without already knowing this was on the horizon.
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

But to summarize, when Oracle sued Google and partnered with IBM, they also indirectly attached the Apache group. Android's Java-esque API is largely derived from Apache's work, and Google was the biggest contributor to their open implementation.

Android's Java-esque API and the way it uses the Dalvik VM as a replacement to the Java VM is the crux of the lawsuit.

Before Oracle ever bought Sun, Sun had claimed that Google's Android leached off Java-the-language without implementing the whole Java stack (and without licensing the mobile Java VM). Jonathan Schwartz (aka: the pony-tailed wonder) raised the issue with Eric Schmidt, and was told to pound sand because Sun didn't have the resources by that time to go after Google. Google wanted to leverage Java-the-language because they they needed a language everyone already knew; nobody was going to want to pick up some Google-invented language and Google knew it (they actually focus-grouped it, LOL).

So Google is "open" when it comes to leeching off of other people's work for their own gain, but not "open" when it comes to paying licensing fees to the company that incubated the technology they appropriated.

Note that Eric Schmidt wasn't an innocent bystander in all of this. People either forget or, in the case of most tech journalists and bloggers, willingly overlook the fact that Eric Schmidt cut his baby teeth at Sun and went on to lead the Java team and eventually became CTO at Sun. He knew exactly what he was doing, trying to weasel out of paying licensing fees to Sun for the use of Java in a mobile device and implementing the mobile Java VM as the license requires.

The only reason that Sun didn't sue Google because they knew the negative publicity (deserved or not) would impact their ability to find a buyer. They slow-played their hand, hoping that would be a diamond-in-the-rough to a potential buyer. Which is exactly were we came in with Oracle filing this lawsuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

The Eclipse Foundation also appears to be coming down on the side of Google/Apache rather than Oracle/IBM. Apple just apparently threw their hat into the Oracle/IBM ring. If the JCP process falls apart, though, it will become more or less a "proprietary with source available" license rather than the Free/Open Source Software license we have now, making it harder to integrate Java into the huge middleware infrastructure out there now...

Oracle's making quite a mess of things, and it's unclear how it's going to fall out.

Well there are obviously two camps. Oracle/Sun and IBM are the companies with a track record of monetizing Java, so they have a vested interest in preventing Java from becoming fragmented. The pony-tailed open sores crowd have a vested interests in "sticking it to the man" and Google supports them because it suits Google, not because it helps any sort of "Open Java" initiatives; the more fragmented Java becomes, the better things are for Google. It's a pretty safe bet that Apple wants to let everyone else hash this out; they certainly don't want to be in the position of having to support multiple versions of a Java VM (esp. an Andoid mutant), and since they can get Oracle or OpenJDK to take that on, I'm sure Apple has no problem supporting the Oracle position at this time. (FWIW, Apache is free to develop as many of their own mutant JVM variants for OSX as they'd like.)

Given all the facts, I'm not sure whether Oracle is making a mess of things or not, but I agree it's not clear how this will all eventually shake out.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by john.b View Post

to everyone who said i was full of crap when i said this was in the works, "i told you so!"

bravo
post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMacker View Post

Perhaps Apple is considering purchasing Oracle.

Will not happen...
post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMacker View Post

lol. I considered turning my sentence around to read that Oracle could buy Apple after reading it to myself.

Oracle did make bids for Apple on several occasions back in the 90's.
post #40 of 43
This news is a great relief! I was very worried for a while that Apple was heading too fast towards the iOS nirvana.
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