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New Windows 7 ad criticizes Apple's lack of Blu-ray support on Mac - Page 5

post #161 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

I'm just wondering out loud if Apple is restricting movies to 720p for the time being, until bandwidth gets to where you don't have to wait 3 days to download 19 GB worth of movie (or whatever a 1080p 2.5 hour movie is these days).

4GB, but you're absolutely right on the bandwidth thing. The U.S. is full of whores (read: capping ISPs) and idiots (read: greedy ISPs). "Broadband" is 4Mbps when the rest of the world has 50 meg connections for the same price.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #162 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:02pm
You might as well promote the futuristic in-flight floppy disk.
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post #163 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes, but if you have a digital image and an inexpensive app ServeToMe you can watch it on:

your laptop, desktopS, HDTVS, iPhoneS, iPadS, at your mates TV, your Auntie's TV, at any WiFi HotSpot, or over 3G in the middle of a park.

See, that's the magic of streamed digital contentment, you can take it with you -- without taking it with you!

.

You wont be watching it in the original 1080P mate, unless you have your own cable exchange.
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post #164 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:04pm
@Marvin,

Don’t forget that it uses up 5” inches of port-side real estate. If we use the current MBAs a template of what to expect with future MBPs I would bet that Apple will put ports on each side, with a tapering toward the front, but even if they do follow that lead (though with a thicker design for 2.5” drives and more powerful HW, there should still be room for at at least one more USB port. Heck, maybe they’ll add LightPeak, too, without getting rid of other ports.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #165 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

Because that's a lot less hassle than sliding in a disc. Any excuse to not admit your'e on the losing side for once.


I'l bet if you surveyed a random sample of Mac owners, not the fanatics on the boards here, and asked them did the want BR the majority would say yes. I'd say 99% of the Mac Mini crowd would immediately.

Just admit Lord Jobs is stroking you cos he cant extract enough blood from your wallet through Blu_ray and move on.

BTW, I'm a Mac user, who bought a PS3 just to play Blu-Rays.

If they are not Mac fanatics, they likely don't know the difference, and could care less about BR - IMO.

Mac heads - by in large don't care, or do we?

I don't care one way or the other.

Hell I got a 54" Panasonic Plasma TV for xmas last year, and I'll bet I've watched on 2 or 3 BR movies since then, and only because our son rented them I rent but don't care about BR, but that's just me.

Skip
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post #166 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

You're dead wrong.

I'm just waiting for the day the physical media is gone. Never liked cd's or dvd's. I love being able to simply download. I can't even remember the last time I watched a dvd or slid either a dvd or a cd in my computer.

yes, no doubt from a torrent site, I have a 50" tv, if I watch a 700MB divx file on it it look like shit.
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post #167 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

You wont be watching it in the original 1080P mate, unless you have your own cable exchange.

Let me get this straight: you want nothing but 1080p for every movie you watch regardless of where you watch it. To get that, you are willing to go obtain the Blu-ray disks and carry them with you to all these places? Man, you really are serious.

Thompson
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post #168 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

yes, no doubt from a torrent site, I have a 50" tv, if I watch a 700MB divx file on it it look like shit.

Movies are available for rent or purchase legally. They look fine. Not good enough for you, I understand, but fine enough for most people. If it means extra engineering, thicker laptops, and/or more expensive products, I can see why Apple isn't exactly jumping up and down to scratch your insatiable quality itch.

Thompson
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post #169 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephwinters View Post

"Lord Jobs?" Really? Seriously? Give me a break!

I mean come on, I've been a mac enthusiest for years and always see people saying "Lord Jobs" or "papa jobs"... I don't bring this observation up to find out why people do it, because any senseless dolt can hear the under-toned message behind the snarky bit and automatically figure it out.

But It's uncalled for. Even if the assembled multitude of folks on a MAC RUMOR forum have a somewhat biased view, the connection is at the very most ephemeral.

When someone uses a reference like that, I see any basis for an intelligent argument or point made just tossed out the window.

Ultimately, it's the consumers choice as to what is followed or believed in. APPLE can only assume a correct road map for what we want and implement the paving of such. IF it works, great! If not, they try again.

That's not godly like. That's not lord like. That's far from Steve or Apple creating a "reality distortion field"... That's just fucking business.

Ahem.


+1

Thompson
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post #170 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:28pm
Are you buying them through iTunes? The iTunes rentals don't really work for the "Grab my ipad and get on the plane" scenario, right?

I am not being facetious, I don't own an iPad and the only streaming I do is with Netflix. I am very curious. I have been thinking of getting an iPad for my daughter. We take a lot of car trips and I don't understand how I would load that thing up with movies before we go.

Debus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

I travel A LOT and I assure you the last thing I want to do is lug around bluray discs and be popping them into my computer so that I can watch my battery meter go down faster than Enron.

If someone sat beside me on the plane and was thrilled that they could pop in a bluray I'd say "Great. By the way, have you seen my iPad? It holds 12 bluray movies and last 10 hours."
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post #171 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

How about the fact that Apple is on the Blu-ray Disc Association's board of directors, but still does not include Blu-ray in its own computers?

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html

Old news Haggar, very old news. I imagine that this is from a time when Apple was considering all kinds of likely business paths, and they were backing Blu-ray as their favorite solution over the competing physical format(s) in case it came down to that. Ultimately, as time unfolded and the battle rambled on, they realized what I have subsequently realized: by the time the battle ended, the new one had already begun.

In short... this is Apple doing what they always say: they are skating to where they think the puck is going to be.

Thompson
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post #172 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:36pm
I can't for the life of me see the value of Blu-ray on a computer.

Firstly, it would be for sole viewing only. Hooking it to a large screen so the family can watch as well, interrupts what most of us buy a computer for in the first place. And, letting anybody else use their computer to watch movies even while they are in the same room, is highly unlikely.

As for choice, even the official Blu-ray site demonstrates that the selection is limited. Right now, there isn't one new release in the past 30 days that are worth buying. Cripes, just how many versions of Toy Story does one really need. Or how many times are we to watch Avatar on Blu-ray.

A few years ago, we conducted a study to on the viewing habits of people re VHS tapes. The least watched, if ever, were tapes that were given to you. Close behind, were tapes you bought; the exception were pre-schoolers. The most watched were rentals. Interesting, the numbers fell the longer the rental period. In other words, a back-tomorrow literally force more to watch the movie vs a video on a three-day or worse a 7-day rental period which simply speaking led people to procrastinate more.

And if we look around ourselves, I'll bet there are more unopened copies of movies Titanic, Star Wars, E.T., etc., but we don't hesitate we will sit in front of the Telli, watching these blockbusters, we just had to have, and with commercials.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies...ow=newreleases
Top Blu-ray Sellers: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/top.php?country=usa
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post #173 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Will the three people who use Blu-Ray please raise their hands?

Haha, very funny. You know full well that you're not even close. Try 20 million in 3 years since late '06.
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post #174 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Haha, very funny. You know full well that you're not even close. Try 20 million in 3 years since late '06.

How about on notebooks to watch movies? Whose paying an extra $500 for those 9.5mm Blu-ray drives?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #175 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

In response to ripping a blu-ray disc for later viewing...


Sliding in a disc - blu-ray or otherwise - is more hassle when Netflix owns it. I don't want to feel compelled to watch the movie on Netflix's schedule or on the device with the blu-ray drive. I'd rather rip and return, and watch it later at the location of my choosing.

And then, hopefully, delete that ripped movie soon after watching. Otherwise, that is DEFINITELY not fair use.

Thompson
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post #176 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:56pm
we know streaming is good business, especially for apple. why would they release a new appletv with no storage capabilities and then try to convince people that renting a movie several times is still a better choice then buying it.
streaming makes sense, they can charge per rental and make good revenue. if you stick to a optical media solution, apple doesn't stand to make money unless it's pixar.

apple has done a great job marketing the convenience of doing it this way, just look how most of you are in agreement that the disc is dead.
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post #177 of 411
11/12/10 at 1:59pm
I had a friend that paid to have a Blu Ray disc drive added to his laptop as an add on (I think it was somewhere around $200 if I remember correctly), and wanted to show it off once he got it. He popped in a Blu-Ray disc and started to brag, and I noticed the picture kind of sucked on his 13 inch screen. I asked him "what's the resolution on this thing?" ... turns out it was about half of that of a MacBook. So, he paid two hundred dollars just to be able to watch high definition on a 13 inch computer screen that couldn't even show the content at it's full resolution ... sound kind of dumb to me.

I don't really see the need to watch Blu Rays on my portable devices via a physical disc. Its one more thing to carry around, and a physical disc drive makes noise and eats power when its in operation. Pretty much every Blu Ray I have purchased in the last 18 months has come with a digital download I put into iTunes, and then can carry around on my iPhone or iPad. I travel quite a bit, and on my last trip from Seattle back to San Diego I had eight full length movies on my iPad, and I could watch 10 hours of them before my battery died ... the flight was only three hours.
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post #178 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

I think that some of us have a more moderate tone towards Blu-ray... at least we only say "most people don't need it" rather than "nobody needs it". Not only is there sound philosophy to back that up (see earlier arguments) but the data seems to be backing it up as well. (While relatively "popular", Blu-ray is far far from "ubiquitous".) And if a company like Apple relies on such data to help guide its engineering efforts, can you really blame them?

Thompson

People also don't need SD card slots, but they are more convenient. I'm not really as frustrated with apple moving away from optical drives in their portable computers, but I wish they would support the format at the OS level, if only for the benefit of the Mac Mini alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Can I quote you in a couple of years? LOL

Yes you can quote me in a couple years! BR will certainly still be around in two years. Like I said I understand the benefits of streaming and I certainly feel that the two technologies can coexist (That is why I have Netflix and BR's), but streaming will not supplant Br in the quality department until sustainable bandwidth is more prevalent. Now, if two years from now, 100+ Megabit connections are as ubiquitous as common Wifi is today, then I believe we might start seeing a diminishing of BR, but until then i see both technologies continuing to see growth.
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post #179 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabelad View Post

try to convince people that renting a movie several times is still a better choice then buying it...

Try to convince customers WHAT!?!?!?

I don't feel any urge or pressure from Apple to rent the same movie multiple times from iTunes. If I think I may want to see it more than once, I'll consider buying the movie in iTunes, from whence I can stream it or load it directly onto multiple iDevices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabelad View Post

apple has done a great job marketing the convenience of doing it this way, just look how most of you are in agreement that the disc is dead.

So in your view, the only reason someone might believe the disk is dead is that he (or she) is simply drinking the Apple marketing kool-aid, like a brainless zombie?

Perhaps some people believe that the disk IS dead without needing Apple to tell them. I was predicting the eventual demise of the disk as long ago as the early 2000's when you could get your songs from Napster and rip all of your disks into iTunes. It didn't take long for the music disk to begin its decline, and it was fairly clear even then that video would go the same way once bandwidth and storage would allow. For some people, the time is now.

For me, the disk is almost completely dead.

Thompson
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post #180 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:17pm
Never mind the merits or not of BR on a laptop, this is probably the best MS commercial I have seen. The aim of the ad is clearly to create the perception that an MS machine is better because it has the BR feature. Never mind that 99% of the people will us it once or twice at best.

People always talk about watching movies on the plane. I HAVE watched movies on my computer on a plane, and I have seen other people do it but it is a rarity. Most people by far choose from the selection offered on the airplane. My kids watch DVDs on our laptops at home but more and more its from Netflix or iTunes. If I had laptops without optical drives and a DVD needs to be played I can copy it to my iMac and stream it to whatever machine they are using.
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post #181 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlfnlsn View Post

People also don't need SD card slots, but they are more convenient. I'm not really as frustrated with apple moving away from optical drives in their portable computers, but I wish they would support the format at the OS level, if only for the benefit of the Mac Mini alone.

Well then, it seems like you have a broken analogy, because there is very little about Blu-ray that is more convenient than streaming or just having digital copies of a movie.

Thompson
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post #182 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Let me get this straight: you want nothing but 1080p for every movie you watch regardless of where you watch it. To get that, you are willing to go obtain the Blu-ray disks and carry them with you to all these places? Man, you really are serious.

Thompson

I think many here don't realize that there are many people out there buying laptops today, who will never take them outside of there house. I know this because I spend my day selling laptops and desktops (both PC's and Mac's). Many people are looking for something that will be there sole computer and don't plan on taking them anywhere, but simply want to easily work throughout the house. What many people are also wanting to do is have the ability to connect this laptop up to their TV's. BR would be useful in this situation. For the person that is going to be taking a trip, they would most certainly rip a small selection of films they would like to see while away, and have them digitally on their laptop, but when they are at home and their laptop is hooked up to their HDTV, they would like to be able to get that BR of the latest movie, take it right home, and be able to slide it into their laptop. I encounter regular customers who are wanting to do this a lot more than many on this forum would have us believe. Also, in these situations, the whole "downside to optical" in general loses much of its steam. The power consumption becomes a non issue, the noise is irrelevant (would never hear it over the sound of the movie itself), and the speed is certainly fast enough to keep up with the watching of the movie.
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post #183 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Well then, it seems like you have a broken analogy, because there is very little about Blu-ray that is more convenient than streaming or just having digital copies of a movie.

Thompson


Popping in a BR disc is far more convient than dealing with an internet connection that craps out every five seconds. My simple point in the analogy was mentioning the aspect of the word need, that is why I emphasized it. I agree that BR is not a need, but it is something desired by enough people that I don't feel it should be marginalized. That is why the issue continues to come up.
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post #184 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlfnlsn View Post

...but when they are at home and their laptop is hooked up to their HDTV, they would like to be able to get that BR of the latest movie, take it right home, and be able to slide it into their laptop

If this is the primary use case, wouldn't it be a cheaper and more convenient solution to actually have a Blu-ray player hooked up to your TV? (And there we are with that "convenience" factor again.)

Thompson
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post #185 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlfnlsn View Post

Popping in a BR disc is far more convient than dealing with an internet connection that craps out every five seconds. My simple point in the analogy was mentioning the aspect of the word need, that is why I emphasized it. I agree that BR is not a need, but it is something desired by enough people that I don't feel it should be marginalized. That is why the issue continues to come up.

No, I understood your point, and you used the word convenience as the trade-off. If it is true that your internet connection craps out every five seconds, then I'll grant you the point. Mine, however, does not. I successfully stream movies from beginning to end with nary a hitch from multiple sources: my own digital library, Netflix, iTunes, etc, to multiple end devices: AppleTV, iPhone, iPad, Computers, etc, even over the web. This is much more convenient than dealing with physical media, so your analogy is completely broken for me. The ONLY thing compelling about Blu-ray is the higher resolution and cinema quality sound... and lacking it just isn't a deal breaker for me.

Thompson
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post #186 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:35pm
Oh no you di'nt!

So... how is that Blu-Ray support for Xbox coming along?
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #187 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

see the man's post directly above for the difference. As for your Ghetto reference, get your head out of your ass, what did you do a year ago before the ipad existed dickhead?

Let me interject. Things were a bit different a year ago so the argument is moot. This MS ad is coming out now and you have to look at the direction that technology is moving towards at this moment, not a year ago.

Also, on a laptop, 1080 isn't going to matter so much. Watching movies on a laptop is a compromise in every way (except for portability). If you've got an HD flatscreen, then yeah, 720 won't cut it. Not so with a laptop.
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post #188 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Apple's problem is their insistence that 720p is 'good enough.' It ain't.

1080p, Steve. 1080p.

A quick google search will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the difference between 720p and 1080p is really only tangible on displays larger than 48".

Since there are no 50" iMacs, I'd say Apple made the right choice and stayed clear of the "bag of hurt" that is blu-ray.

The minority that chooses to buy 60" TV's can buy themselves a blu-ray player and spend retarded amounts on media.

For the rest of us, we'll continue to enjoy our content the convenient way... without the need for physical media that scratches, breaks, get's left at home, etc. To say nothing of cost.
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post #189 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Oh no you di'nt!

So... how is that Blu-Ray support for Xbox coming along?

yes, the starting price for the arcade will only be $320, based of prices for laptops.

putting it at MORE then the PS3 slim, which has more memory.... and better graphics... and a stronger cpu...

maybe on the refresh of the 360.

but i don't think a "xbox 360 BDE" will come out

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

A quick google search will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the difference between 720p and 1080p is really only tangible on displays larger than 48".

Since there are no 50" iMacs, I'd say Apple made the right choice and stayed clear of the "bag of hurt" that is blu-ray.

The minority that chooses to buy 60" TV's can buy themselves a blu-ray player and spend retarded amounts on media.

For the rest of us, we'll continue to enjoy our content the convenient way... without the need for physical media that scratches, breaks, get's left at home, etc. To say nothing of cost.

have you tried using screen sized at 15.4-15.6 inchs, going from 720-1080p

i will say that, i can see a difference.

blu-ray still seems pointless in my opinion however, i would prefer flash drives.

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #190 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:50pm
Except that these clowns recently and publicly came out against Blu Ray and in favour of streaming, essentially adopting Apple's position.
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post #191 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:52pm
While I think BR quality is superior to most of the heavily compressed HD codecs, as it supports videophile features such as uncompressed multichannel HD audio and true 1080 24p video, I think Microsoft is kind of missing the point: that kind of quality is only truly beneficial when you're watching it on a big 50" HDTV and proper surround sound system. The MacBook user would simply download an HD copy from iTMS and still enjoy the movie in HD in flight. Apple has made it easy so that even grandma can do it. Even better: the ability to watch 720p or 1080p files on an iPad. Sure Windows can do BR, but if the point is to say: I can watch movies in HD on my laptop, the MacBook is no less capable.
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #192 of 411
11/12/10 at 2:59pm
Yes, but Jobs' point is valid. Blue Ray licensing requires a hardware manufacturer to lock down the hardware to a very extreme level. So much so that when a DVD isn't being played, D.R.M. is still having an effect on the performance of the hardware. For instance, if you plug in a third party external hard drive to a properly licensed Blue Ray PC if that third party drive doesn't also comply with Blue Ray licensing terms the PC will not let you use the third party device. Further, the OS itself is always using extra juice complying with the required DRM.

Adopting Blue Ray would require Apple to make the Macs much more locked down at the expense of performance. Not worth it. Buy a third party Blue Ray external drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

I think most laptops will last three hours ok. This is actually a good angle for MS, as there's no real reason or excuse for the lack of Blu-Ray support for Mac, other than "licensing issues" which means Jobs didn't get his own way and all the pie. His assertion that BR is a dead format is bollocks, as the sales grew way over 100% on last year, some half a billion in revenue.

Anyone who says that there's no difference with that and downloaded or streaming content is also misinformed, as I have Apple TV 2 and a PS3, and the difference is night and day, honestly. That's before you factor in the time it takes to download and getting throttled by your ISP for streaming 30GB films a month. (BT I am looking at you)
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post #193 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:00pm
Also ironic being that Microsoft originally was in the competing format's corner.
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post #194 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:04pm
This commercial's really clever, but until we start seeing HD screens on laptops I don't see why Blu Ray is needed. I haven't thought twice about it.
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post #195 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Also ironic being that Microsoft originally was in the competing format's corner.

If MS had shipped XBOX 360s with HD-DVD I think it could have won the war but well never know for sure. What we can be sure of is that the war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray kept people from adopting which kept production costs, all at a time when they needed to get in front of internet-based video which is the most dominate form of video playback on the planet.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #196 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


Who needs mega resolution and bitrate on a shitty little 13"-17" laptop display anyways??

That resolution is sour anyways. You don't want it.


(It is not true that HD looks spectacular on my 1080p 15" screen).
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post #197 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by moo-shu cereal View Post

So how does Microsoft downplay their refusal to put Blu-Ray on the XBox? It's a bit contradictory to tout Blu-Ray on one device yet say that streaming is the way to go on another. At least Apple is consistent with streaming as their go-to strategy.



Yeah. Consistency. That makes up for it nicely. It is a complete substitute.
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post #198 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeniThings View Post

Fact: DVD/Blu Ray battery life averages 1.5 hours on a modern Sony laptop. 2 hours at best.



But Sony stuff sucks. Try a Dell with a 9 cell battery.
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post #199 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post


If someone sat beside me on the plane and was thrilled that they could pop in a bluray I'd say "Great. By the way, have you seen my iPad? It holds 12 bluray movies and last 10 hours."


Your iPad cannot display HD content. Why do you load it? Can your iPad really handle the codec?
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post #200 of 411
11/12/10 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

so why not give us the CHOICE?



Asked and answered. It is a bag of hurt.
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