New Windows 7 ad criticizes Apple's lack of Blu-ray support on Mac - Page 7

5mbit 720p with lossy audio is 'leading edge'. Seriously?

Try watching Avatar on BD on a good home cinema set-up. Then compare to the download option. You will see a world of difference.

I wasn't aware of any law that restricted how far I can sit in front of my TV or computer, do you have one in your country?

My Pioneer plasma is 50". 480p is basically unwatchable. 720p looks passable. 1080p looks incredible.

That's my experience. Maybe you need a TV.

HDCP only requires that a signal remains encrypted throughout the entire signal chain. This is not a restrictive requirement, and purely targeted at protecting content.

BD / AACS restrictions have not been in full swing until now (and version 1 has been delayed several times), mainly because a lot of TV sets in the USA lacked compatible digital inputs. This has changed now, it has been decided. The restrictions are quite deep (Kernel Level required, specific ports must be disabled while protected content is running, even if they are used for something else entirely, any screen shot and video capture capability in the OS must be deactivated) and worse: as several industry insiders have reported, the licensing terms imply that adherence to future additional restrictions that may be decided later is expected. For OS makers there is an additional trap: any new version, or update to an OS is potentially a subject for review and approval. So, AACS LA could delay releases (or enforce the deactivation of BD support)... And there is an additional trap for Apple: MS is a founding member of AACS LA - really think Apple wants to submit future versions of OS X to MS for approval? Just to support a technology that never took off?

Lets see if you can keep up, though my optimism isnt overwhelming.

You responded to a comment comparing the ability to have more movies and more usage. The exact quote by the posters was, "Great. By the way, have you seen my iPad? It holds 12 bluray movies and last 10 hours.

Since the iPad has no Blu-ray drive and Blu-ray is a physical technology, not a software technology, the poster is obviously referencing a comparative to holding studio movies. You failed to understand this in your reply.

The poster clearly referenced the iPads duration for video playback which should have told you they are referencing the iPads specs which is a maximum playback is 720p at 30 fps for H.264 Main Profile level 3.1 which has a bit rate and resolution well below studio Blu-ray discs. You also failed to understand this with your mention of a 500GB drive and 35GB files.

Even ripped Blu-ray discs are usually smaller than the original discs simply because they remove the excessive extras, audio tracks and so forth, not to mention the often encoding in a lower profile that to reduce the size, but still being better than one could differentiate on a small screen. Files encoded down to 720p often work for me without issue if I use one of the 3rd-party players for the iPad, but you still need to keep the resolution and bitrate at the specs in order to play the video smoothly and get the 10 hours. But hey, at your lack of cognition is consistent. No one can that that away from you.

Or what would work even better is to announced that in conjunction with groups X, Y and Z, Apple proudly announces a new SuperHD format -- 1080p video with 5.1 audio and only a 25% increase in file sizes over their regular HD offers. And a new HD Extras that would allow studios to create digital copies that are just like their Blu-ray discs. Major Studios A, B and C are already on board to support both the new SuperHD format and the HD Extras on iTunes.

Then all the arguments about 'but blu-ray has better video' and 'blu-ray has better sound' and 'they don't have all the features as the real disks in the digital copies' are greatly weakened.

so you would have SD for your phone/touch, HD for your ipad/computer and SuperHD for your Apple TV/computer to pick from.



No it means there were licensing issues. Up until perhaps 8 months ago, licensing was broken up into several groups and was a complete mess.


Even Microsoft has publicly said they don't feel it is a long term format and it will be replaced by downloads.


Actually a great deal of the general public can't tell the difference between a 720p and a 1080p video. Particularly when you are looking at it on a 15 inch laptop screen.



You will find that many folks are the same way. They buy BR to play on their big ass 50 inch tv with the mega sound system. Not some little laptop with a pair of headphones.




And I bet the majority, as much as 99%, would say they don't care. Mac Mini users included. Folks using any Mac as a HTPC is a small group compared to the whole. And even then many of them would tell you that they set up such a system to avoid DVD players and such and all they would do is rip the blu-ray so hooking up an external drive is fine.


for most it is just fine. They can't even see the difference generally.



And yet look at the sales on their pathetic machines that don't have blu-ray. On those ipads, such a stupid toy. Apparently the general public will buy that crap anyway even though it is 'substandard' since it lacks blu-ray.


Remember that the studios are pushing Netflix etc to wait as much as 60 days before they can rent new movies, all because the Studios want the discs to sell and believe they are not because its too easy to just rent right away. That is likely a factor as well

Well, they are already working on the successor, but like H.264(MPEG-4 Part 10) was to MPEG-4 Part 2, it will require more processing per frame that doesnt scale very well compared to the increased compression. Modern HW may not be able to do feasibly decode what will be the final result (and thats without considering that H.264 is HW accelerated on most systems for video playback).

This simple Wiki entry states a deduction in file size by about 50%, which I find to be too good to be true at this point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Ef...y_Video_Coding
PS: Note that H.264 was published in 2003, years before it really started to take hold. With H.265 not appearing to be close to finalization I wonder how many years H.264 will be the best codec. I dont see WebM or Vorbis beating MPEG-LA codecs anytime soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression

This is funny for 2 reasons:
(1) There's absolutely NO reason Macs shouldn't come with bluray.
(2) Microsoft touts bluray as an advantage, yet neither W7 nor Xbox support it.

I wasn't aware of any law that restricted whom I can blame, do you have one in your country?

An HD movie from iTunes is 720p and can be up to 5GB in size. However the SD version is included free. When syncing the ipad you can choose whether to permit the HD version to be copied to prefer the SD version when available.

I allow HD because when I play content back through the TV in my hotel suite I want HD quality.

Well said, Jeff. I like my moralizing with a side of practical advice.

What is ironic about Microsoft's commercial is that they fought blu-ray by supporting another dead optical format: HD-DVD. Their position is the same as Apple's: optical formats are dying. I think what they said was something like "blu-ray will be the last optical format" (or words close to that). They also believe the future belongs to electronic distribution of video media, and they want in. Ironically, Apple is way ahea of Microsoft in this regard with their maturing iTunes Music Store distribution network. Movies from Microsoft? Maybe for the Xbox, but not Windows.

250 comments later from supposed "elitist" on both sides of the fence with petty arguments and "I'm smarter than you..." and "My way of doing things is better than yours..." and one thing remains clear... neither Microsoft nor Apple cares about any of these comments. They will continue to profit and appeal to those who support and enjoy their products. Debate all you want, but Blu-Ray is good for those who want, streaming / Apple is good for those who want it. It's that simple.

Ghost.

A couple of points.

First, those who say Blu Ray adoption is faster than DVD adoption are simply wrong. Blu Ray (both player and media) sales are stagnant, the numbers buoyed slightly by PS3 sales. Read Variety. If you're in the entertainment business, you know this.

Second, can anyone fully appreciate Blu Ray quality on a 13 or 15" laptop screen? No, so all that extra digital information is wasted.

Third, as others have pointed out, Blu Ray discs are a major battery drain and the vast majority of people fly coach (i.e. without laptops plugged in).

Fourth, yes, Apple's strategy is to sell streaming media, but it also appears to be the way media distribution is going. The idea of physical carriers (books, CDs, DVDs, Blu Rays) is very twentieth-century.

Fifth, yes, Apple should stream movies at 1080, but I'm assuming they're compromising at the moment because of bandwidth issues.

Finally, if you have a quality large screen TV and surround sound system, then, yes, renting/buying Blu Ray discs makes a lot of sense.

But not on a laptop -- which makes Microsoft's ad garbarge.

You still haven't said that the "ridiculous" part is? Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them "ridiculous". And the AACS isn't a MS technology, MS doesn't approve anything so don't try and claim they do, they are just one of the founders, there is a number of others, including Disney. The AACS LA are the ones that do the approval.

Now, personally, if you have one of those old tv's that don't support HDMI, it isn't just HD blu-ray you will be missing out on, Apples devices also only support HDMI style digital connections as well. And I can't see what the issue is, I don't strike any issues with my Blu-ray players, they handle AACS, and HDCP fine, so does my TV, so does my receiver. The reason they don't is it competes too much with their attempt at HD, plain and simple.

Now I know you don't like me, I don't care about that, I don't like you one bit, nut unlike you I don't hide behind a fake name abusing anyone that comes along and corrects people.

The fact is they make a claim, their claim was wrong, your defense was wrong. Your long essay was a waste of time, someone else posted the original message, not you, they were wrong and nothing you post to defend them will fix the fact that they were wrong. Get over it.

ha ha ha ha, you posted one of my messages and tried to make a joke.

If you spent money on something you don't use then why complain about the product, if you didn't need it, or had no intention of using it, why buy it in the first place?

Let's see, your first point is plain wrong. Blu-ray media sales in the US has had a 80% yoy growth, globally stand alone players are also growing at around 80%, so if that is stagnant, what do you class as growth?

"BD sellthrough is the fastest-growing category in the home entertainment industry, with over twice as much revenue and growth as electronic sales. "

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5331

Please watch Avatar in a well set up Imax theater, and then watch it on your iPad using the mono speaker. Then, please get back to us about the sound and picture not enhancing anything.

I see. So if you have an average 1080p TV and an average surround sound system, the benefits are not apparent?

Is that your position? Do you have any support for that position other than assertion?

Why not?


Do you always archive materials at low quality resolutions? How about your photos? Do you downgrade them before you put them on your disk? Or do you just shoot at 640x480 and be done with it?

Disk space is cheap. I rip FLACs and then downgrade to MP3s for the Apple products (they can't handle FLAC).

Why on earth do you want your digital archive to be in less-than-the-best quality? In the future, 1080p will be low res.

In that case, you need to get the facts of the matter. They work better than one's awareness if your goal is to draw valid conclusions.

Do you know what Netflix is? If so, what is their "schedule"?

Is his desire for a BD player a "single desire"? He's the only one?

Bullshit. What are you going on about?

Youve missed the point. Companies arent working for you, they are working for themselves. There goal is to make money, so your single desire isnt enough to warrant their interest. They go where the money is.

Again, why should any company warp their goals of trying to increase their profits to satisfy your needs? Do you put this much emphasis on other companies to be like everyone else if it satisfied your single desire?

There's millions and millions of such people. Too bad not everyone is so well informed. If they had any frigging idea of anything at all they would not want the higher quality stuff.

Good point. Floppy disks are pretty much the same as BD disks in all important respects.

This is typical MS not knowing its arse from its elbow. Balmer and Gates hate optical discs just like Steve Jobs. They don't like Blu-ray either and want to skip straight to digital copies but here we have the idiots they hire to do advertising for them coming up with something which focuses on a tech the company's official ethos doesn't agree with. They do this time and time again.

Good boy.

But the reality is that Mac heads DO care about Blu-Ray. Indeed, Mac heads care very much. Mac heads hate BD.

So you'll need to start caring, and the better a Mac head you are, the more you despise Blu-Ray. It is a bag of hurt. Loyal Apple customers hate it. That is all you need to know.

Can you see the value of having the choice? How about for for other people with other habits?

It's slightly more than $8 extra. Some retailers have them at $1000:

http://store.fastmac.com/product_inf...roducts_id=338

Apple use the very slim slot-loading drives. Even best-case scenario, you will be paying a $200 premium for Blu-Ray and I guarantee your wife would complain about that if it was a choice when you bought the machine.

So let's assume that you want to find a solution after purchase. You can buy the Sony BDX-s500u:

http://sonyrumors.net/2010/09/28/son...ner-for-macpc/

which is Mac compatible. The Mac OS system just can't play back the discs but Bootcamp can and Parallels or VMWare may be able to or if not, extract the movie from the disc.

The biggest problem with Blu-Ray is that people have assumptions that it's a cheap add-on and Apple are just being stubborn. They are stubborn for good reasons.

Double-post; delete.

Sure it can.

Download MakeMKV. Play straight from the disc. Argument over. OS X can't do it? Who cares? I don't want DRM in my OS, and apparently I don't have to with MakeMKV.

You should be able to play it from VLC with the right settings in MakeMKV.


I find it insulting that you think you can tell me what I see.


That's the reason I use my BD-RE/HD DVD-ROM drive in my Mac Pro. Blu-ray rips of movies I already own.


That's insanely foolish. I save all my content as 1080p because you don't need these impossibly huge filesizes for it. 4GB for a movie. Come on, now.


While I normally agree that 720p is not HD at all, you're absolutely wrong with this statement by the definitions of the rest of the world.

Seeing as toshiba is one of the largest selling brands of laptop I thought I would find out how many of the laptops in their current range can support 1920 by 1080 video which is the blue Ray standard. It turns out that the only ones that do are the qosmio range which is the high end (and expensive) gaming laptop segment. It seems these laptops have a maximum battery life of about an hour and 45 minutes when playing optical media. Not enough for avitar.

Reread my post. I'm agreeing with you.

Thompson

HPs laptops which can handle 1080 video have even shorter battery life.
Looks like if you want to watch Avatar on a plane at full resolution the only way to do it is rip the movie and watch it on a 17 MBP ( the only apple laptop which has the screen resolution to handle it)

I suggest you sign up at the gym and develop those muscles so that you're able to "lug" those incredibly heavy discs around. I don't have that problem, and, as crazy as it is heard to believe, I am able to watch Blu-ray movies on my PC laptop without watching the "battery meter go down faster than Enron"..

I know that's amazing to you since you choose to just regurgitate the typical fanboy arguments (Lug it around, all Laptops with Blu-ray get bad battery life) but reality defies your RDF view of the world.

What's BluRay?
Is it like the HD movies I stream over the web on my AppleTV for $4.99, watch once and then forget.
Or is it like the stack of CDs I have in my closet that I don't have time to give to Goodwill?
The is disc is dead.

I thought the Ad was good. There's nothing wrong with Microsoft poking a little fun at something that is definitely a weak point in Macs. Apple certainly had their turn at doing this. Maybe not everyone wants Blu-Ray, but it sure would be a nice option for the Macs that still have some optical drive in them. I'd like if I could take my Star Trek movie, that I bought already, and watch it full-res on my beautiful Macbook Pro screen. If you prefer to rent on iTunes, I'm certainly not saying that Apple should take that option away.

The "battery running out" argument is pretty lame. Every airplane I've been on for the past couple years has had a power outlet in the seats. And I can definitely "tell the difference" between 1080p and iTunes HD-in-name-only on my 27" iMac and the attached 30" studio display.

This is a cash grab on Apple's part and I think it would be nice to be able to get an iMac or MacBook Pro with Blu-Ray as even an option. I'm certainly paying enough for these items that a choice removed to push me towards iTunes feels a little slimy.