New Windows 7 ad criticizes Apple's lack of Blu-ray support on Mac - Page 2

Hm, if they could just make up their minds once...

http://www.gearlog.com/2010/09/micro...res_blu-ra.php

With most affordable Windows laptops having abysmal screen resolution and battery life (some 14 and 15" models still do not exceed 800 lines), what is the point of wasting energy to decompress more pixels than one can see? Just to claim you have joined the dead? Clever marketing indeed.

Blu ray is dead. Why would you want a blu ray drive spinning and killing your battery when you can get pretty much the same video content digital from amazon for example.

Watching 1080p content on a 720p display - the benefits must be outstanding!

I'm just wondering out loud if Apple is restricting movies to 720p for the time being, until bandwidth gets to where you don't have to wait 3 days to download 19 GB worth of movie (or whatever a 1080p 2.5 hour movie is these days). In that time, you could go to your local video shop, rent a Blu-Ray movie, watch it (not on a Mac, unfortunately) and return it before the download of the same movie completes. Although, I don't know what the average home bandwidth in the US is these days, so I could be wrong. I'm on a measly 256k line where I live.

What an odd ad considering the power drain Blu-ray is and coach flights dont typically offer power. The bottom is if you are watching Blu-ray on a typical laptop then you are already missing the point of Blu-ray.



It will depend on the notebook, but at any rate the battery drain will be worse than running off a DVD which is worse than running off HDD which is worse than running off any Flash-based storage. Heck, I bet even Flash video playing back YouTube 1080p is more efficient than Blu-ray playback.



What about cost? This is where I point out that Apple has been using 9.5mm ultra-slim slot-loading Blu-ray drives that have not increased in performance for several years and that the cheapest 9.5mm ultra-slim tray-loading (not the most expensive slot-loading) Blu-ray drives from Sony and Dell are at least $500 more then you tell me that Apple doesnt 'have to' make to their machines so thin.

What about interest? This is where I tell you that digital downloads and streaming are used more than DVD and Blu-ray combined, where DVD is still king of optical media (even for the home) and that Apple is pushing into the future of mobile computing with digital downloads and streaming from multiple sources (including their own) and that there are many signs that Apple has maneuvering to get rid of the ODD altogether as its a slow, power inefficient, one of the few components left with moving parts, and takes up a whooping 25% of the entire notebook space in 13 Mac notebooks then you tell me that Apple should give the customer choice and that they are losing a sale to you and all your friends because you would all buy Mac notebooks if they offered Blu-ray drives, even though Im sure youd just complain they were too expensive if they did because you can buy an entire Blu-ray player with HDMI at buy.com for under $80.


When did he claim that?


Ill say this one more time the argument isnt whether its different, but whether that difference is worthwhile on the plethora of 13 and 15 notebooks, and if the power drain and cost makes it a feasible option for such remote viewing. There is a reason why Blu-ray is popular in the living room on a big screen HDTV and not on notebooks.

Not at all accurate. Distorted shades of truth.

Again, Blu-Ray has been adopted at a faster rate than DVD. Would you compare DVD to Beta-Max??? Downloading movies isn't all there yet. The bandwidth isn't there for it to run full time and it won't be for awhile. Physical media still has a good 5-10 years left before streaming will take over full time. Blu-Ray is the transitional product. Gives the best viewing experience available today, plays all the DVD's from yesterday, and generally it's ahead of even Apple TV in offering streaming/internet video options within the player. My Sony Blu-Ray player has had the Hulu Plus app for months. Even Apple TV doesn't have that. I can play nearly any file on it as well (wirelessly), whereas I can't even play standard MKV files on Apple TV.

And if anything, HD-DVD was Beta-Max (though not actually better than Blu-Ray as Beta was compared to VHS) and Blu-Ray is VHS.

Blu-Ray has positioned itself extremely well in the market today. No other product on the market for viewing video is as versatile as a standalone Blu-Ray player. You're covered for yesterday, today and tomorrow.

so you would rather watch a film on a 3" screen than a 17"screen? Enjoy that experience.

That's what amazes me about this site, and I realise it's a fan site, but Jobs could gun some clown down in the street and you would all attempt to justify it. I have used macs for the last five years, I love them, I have an iPad, Apple tv and used to have an iPhone, but some things are just some things. This isn't about giving you a better alternative, as there isn't one to BR. None exist. I'm not talking portability here, I'm talking sitting at home in front of a 50" screen and getting streamed 720P when you could have 1080P, and hoping your internet holds up.

It's like the person yesterday defending the removal of the backlit keyboard on the new 13" Air by saying we should all learn to touch type. So removing a feature that was there from the satrt is an effort to improve our Office skills? How charming.

It's like a sketch from The Fast Show.

I find the feasibility of this rather questionable. I have specialized hardware/software to do it but I doubt you do. Please enlighten us as to your ripping technique.

Very easy if you have a Blu-Ray drive.

Any DVD - rip to image.

Convert with any number of programs to whatever file you want that can play anywhere.

Or play BD image's in Boxee or stream to Boxee Box.

Ripped using a PC?

Yes, but if you have the disc you can watch it on EITHER your laptop or your big tv, or your mates, tv, or your aunties tv...........

You do not even need a PC. Just any Mac, a software like MakeMKV and an external BD drive (connected via USB or, better, FW800)... works without any problem. If you hack your old Apple TV, it can even play these files back at full resolution. I do that since months...

Well, with AnyDVD, yeah...generally, I still prefer Windows for cutting up my media for the old media server. Much better software options out there with no real OSX equivalents. AnyDVD smokes anything else on the market at ripping DVD's and Blu-Rays. But that's about all I care to use a Windows machine for. It's worth running W7 on Bootcamp or keeping an old PC around.

Eventually all MacBooks will be without optical drives altogether. I like that vision, but to be honest I think the external SuperDrive should be BluRay capable - and Apple's DVD-player shoul support BluRay. BluRay will be around for many years to come. Maybe 10-20 years. There is no real excuse not to be supporting it.

I have to agree with this post 100%

We really can't know the answer. It may be related to reasonable bandwidth requirements, to avoid telcos getting up in arms, or simply a licensing issue (most likely). Remember that Apple uses FairPlay to protect content, which is not a generally supported DRM mechanism for the studios. The original Apple TV had unprotected analogue outputs (component, missing from the new model), theoretically a point for attack that other approaches like HDCP eliminate. With the new Apple TV having eliminated all analogue outputs entirely, it could be that this was done to prepare for 1080p content in the future.

Yes I did enjoy my iPod touch. It was a lot easier to carry around and use than a laptop and blurays. Have you ever tried opening up a decent sized laptop on a plane? First class isn't available on all flights unfortunately, and opening a laptop in economy is nearly impossible.

Now the iPad exists so I use that.

When I travel I carry my BlackBerry, iPad and 14" ThinkPad. Thats it. No discs, no books, no magazines. Digital media has made travelling a much more pleasant experience.


The context of this discussion is laptops, where bluray just isn't needed. At home I have bluray, although I must admit I hardly use it. I know its the highest quality option, but between HDTV and Apple TV, well I don't have many scenarios where I need bluray.

The Planet Earth documentary series is one noted exception. That content should only ever be viewed on bluray. Its amazing.

I've seen BlueRay and I really like it from a quality perspective, especially for visual feasts like "Avatar", "Lord of the Rings", "The Matrix", etc. But the lion's share of my movie watching is not concerned with movies like those, and most of them are rented not purchased. Put those two things together, and I find that convenience trumps quality the majority of the time. That is, I don't want to go to Blockbuster to rent movies anymore. I want to click a button from the comfort of my couch. If the downside is that for those few movies I want to actually purchase and download, I end up with 720p rather than 1080p, you know... I'm pretty much OK with that.

It sometimes seems like people who are videophiles and demand the highest quality tend to not even acknowledge or understand that when it comes to viewing your typical flick, the majority of folks value convenience over pixel density. I think it is fairly obvious that long before BlueRay technology hits the mainstream at the same scale that the DVD format did before it (i.e. "ubiquitous" as opposed to just "popular") the more convenient streaming methods will supersede it. Heck, it may only be a few years off before you can even stream the equivalent quality. In other words, I think that BlueRay never will hit the mainstream on THAT large a scale. Oh it will probably be popular enough to justify its existence, but I doubt that every middle class home in the USA will have a player, let alone 2 or 3.



I doubt that Apple makes its marketing decisions based on petulance, in spite of how it may feel to someone who really really wants a capability that they aren't providing. And I don't think it's necessarily all about the money either (certainly that is a factor). I think that they consider engineering trade-offs and all kinds of other things that never come to light. I'm not trying to be an Apple apologist here. I'm just saying that I think your perspective is influenced by our lack of insight into the Apple decision process as well as your strong desire for BlueRay.

Thompson

Third that. Can't remember when was the last time I had physical media with me when traveled. With fragile disc like Blu-Ray the idea seem to be even dumber.

Blu-ray support is not critical yet (maybe desirable for a few) and the licensing terms (not the cost) are ridiculous. Apple will not alter the OS kernel (DVD Player software is not the problem) to adhere to their DRM phantasies and that is a good thing. The industry is already working on BD successors and as soon as they have a new toy at hands, licensing conditions for BD will become less restrictive. This will be early enough to implement it.

Mostly agree, especially about the MBA missing back light keyboard, IMO form over function again.

So everyone 'seems' to agree BR for home theatre is super but not on laptop for visual experience.
But the big question is -Just how is one going to use their BR disks for use on a apple laptop then?

employing cumbersome 'quasi-illegal' copy methods? Which one has to be careful of that quality output.

IMO- I like the Avitar method - buy a disk and get a digital copy. SIMPLE.
Is that the way of the future? As a consumer who would want to 'own' content, that makes sense to me, not the apple or amazon method.

IMO also- I also accept that steamed HD movie data will be limited until gigabit paths are established sometime in the future.

Apple got rid of the analog HD outputs on the new AppleTV because of the "analog sunset" that affects all HD devices with component video. You can read more about it here. Come December 31st of this year, manufacturers of Blu-ray players will have to limit component outputs to 480.

So you find that to be convenience option you want, but most people arent going to want to spend an excessive amount of money to pay for a Blu-ray player to watch the occasional movie on their notebook.

Try this math:

Take what would be the minimum upgrade cost for a 9.5mm Blu-ray drive from Apple, which is $500 though likely be more due to the requirement for a slot-loading drive and divide that number by the number of months youd use that computer (I think 2.5 years is average).

Now take the number of Blu-ray videos you own, divide by the number of months it took you to acquire them. Now we have a Blu-ray median of what you watch in a month, based on a single viewing (which is how most adults watch a movie). Multiple that number by the $3.99.

If that number is higher than the per month cost of that Blu-ray drive then it would be likely be a net savings for you, but looking at the aforementioned rate of sales of Blu-ray over DVD, and popularity of digital streaming and downloads over all optical media, its simply not true for many so the questions remain: Why should Apple support something just because you want it? Why should Apple support something that competes with their focus and goals, and doesnt positively affect their bottom line.

PS: Youve focused on Blu-ray support but you havent once mentioned AACS support which is essential for playback of studio Blu-ray titles. All youve done is bellyache that Apple should offer the HW directly.

PPS: Anyone who wants to simplify or correct my maths please do so as I only wrote that a single thought without any calculations. Its just a reference point.

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I liked the ad!

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See I think the only computers that bluray should even be in would be the 27" iMac (unless your computer can stream it to a much larger screen).... bluray makes no sense on a lower resolution screen...

Hm, there is a need to have a backup of this quality output, BDs are sensitive and kids are cruel. As long as the industry does not enable private copies, or offers replacement disks for just postage and handling charges... I will use whatever illegal method is available to me.

Digital copies are a good idea in theory, just, they are normally not full resolution and full audio quality, and, worse, they are used as a sales tool, not as a service. Some studios give you protected Windows Media as Digital Copy (useless for me), Sony gives you digital files that only work on a PSP (useless for me) and iTunes/Mac compatible Digital Copies are extremely rare. So, for most content I have legally purchased, illegally ripping it does remain the only way to make fair use of it.

LOL, excellent response. Don't forget to ask the guy if he still has a floppy.

I have a 15" i7 MBP with the hi-res anti-glare screen (1680 x 1050). It's usually on a desk driving an external 1920 x 1200 monitor. Palettes on the MBP, workspace on the big display.

I also do Netflix streaming from the MBP to my HDTV with a Moshi mini DisplayPort to HDMI adaptor. Although, the image quality is inferior to the TV's PG/VGA input. The HDMI image is ragged and jaggy, especially text. The VGA, through a DisplayPort adaptor is very sharp and rock-solid. I'm guessing it may be because the HDTV supports HDMI 1.2, not 1.3.

i love reading the comments here all the time how when microsoft or anybody other then apple does something, the attack hounds are set loose and mercilessly attack anything non-apple. if apple does the same thing, everyone praises it as groundbreaking and a sound business choice. it's better then reading the funny pages on a sunday. good entertainment.

i am a mac user, i own a mac pro, macbook pro and an ipad. i use android for a phone (incredible) and while i look forward to keynotes and releases i don't hinge on everything jobs says or like all the choices apple makes. my mac pro has a blu-ray drive in it for recording from fcp and for blu-ray on the windows 7 side in bootcamp.

i think the commercial is great. you have to remember, commercials are made to go out to the general public, not just a select group of people who have already made up their mind. you also have to realize that the whole world isn't tied to fast internet connections. there are a lot of people in rural areas, like me that can only get 1.5/368 dsl because of where we live. streming hd content just doesn't cut it. even when you can stream hd content, the audio just can't match that of blu-ray.
some people like audio.

personally, i handbrake all my dvds to appletv format so i can load up the ipad with movies or a usb drive to connect to the camera connection kit to offload videos.

i accept the video and audio quality isn't as good as full 1080p and blu-ray audio, but portability is more important.

what gets me most is people ripping blu-ray for portability. why? all you are doing is taking a step backwards, when you could be doing the same with a dvd and getting quicker results. if you rip a blu-ray at it's normal size, there is no way you'll store 12 on an ipad, you'd be lucky to get two or three, but then you couldn't play them.

blu-ray won a hard earned battle in the hd market to become the standard, and it's going to be here until something better and something bigger comes along. it won't be streaming. the US just doesn't have the infrastructure or speed for everyone to move to streaming.
some people don't want to live in big cities (like me) and enjoy living up in the mountains.

but, it was a good commercial, entertaining and if you look at it from the whole audience, a good commercial. realistic, no. no laptop is going to make 3+ hours on a spindle with full screen brightness. but then. when were commercials ever honest. i seem to remember a bunch of apple commercials about the g3/g4 being as powerful as a military supercomputer, and the whole megahertz myth pushed by apple back in the day.

We do not know this for sure. Apple, is not using AACS, so we can't tell if they are affected by this change without knowing their actual contracts with the rights holders. It is possible, but it could also be a voluntary move to not affect future licensing negotiations.

I wouldnt say no sense but very little sense and not enough sense to expect Apple to include it.

Scaramanga89s reasoning is to buy the video once and watch it many times in many locations. For him that may be the ultimate convenience, but that surely is atypical, and he get himself Windows machine by some other vendor or use a 3rd-party drive on a Mac running Windows if its that important.

exactly... I might have touched a DVD once in the last 2 years... no CD's no Blu Ray, no HD DVD's.

That's really a poor excuse to justify piracy.

Teach them the proper way to handle disks or they can't use it.
I've trained numerous house guests and girlfriends with that method.

You can of course, download a super compressed 720p movie through iTunes or other services on PCs as well.

I'd take the blu-ray any day though. 45mbits of 1080p glory is in a league of it's own, and makes 'HD' downloads look hilariously bad. The only downloads which look respectable are the 1080p Zune store downloads on the Xbox 360.

Apple don't have a leg to stand on here. The only way to get 1080p content onto a Mac, is either to install Windows 7, or download BD ripps via bittorent.

Well, they gotta say something.

Like the masses are yearning to watch Blu ray disks on their computers. Everything in the house plays Blu ray anymore--game consoles, etc. Why pay more for a computer to duplicate this function?

you might want to inform netflix and blockbuster. they haven't heard that news yet.


just because you may not use them doesn't mean you or your opinion reflect the whole of the population. a lot of people still buy/rent dvd and blu-ray because either streaming just isn't there or they want a full hd experience at home.

Blu-ray should have been a no-brainer to add to Macs, but Apple is bent on removing optical drives from all their systems so downloads will be king.

Personally, I don't use blu-ray but having the option would have be nice if I wanted to order Avatar on Netflix for my new iMac.

Best part is the 'This was made on a PC" (Honestly!). They had to add that as no one would assume it ... . Someone make the sequel where the battery runs out and the PC watches the rest plus several other movies on the Mac.

exactly!

A very flawed argument as you've missed one crucial factor - many people now buy BDs instead of DVDs. I for example just bought the extended cut of (would you believe it) Avatar today on Blu-Ray. While I may not appreciate the extra resolution as much on a laptop as I do on my 50" 1080p plasma, I would certainly appreciate the ability to play my BD as opposed to with a Mac, not be able to play it.

I'm not a particularly active BD buyer (I rent discs usually), but I still have around 100 BDs and am down to about 2 or 3 DVDs. So for me, BD is the format my content lives on, which is why I want a BD player in as many devices as possible.