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Green Your House (or how not to be a raging hypocrite) - Page 4

post #121 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The idea itself isn't a bad one. When having those sort of occasional late night, few drink talkfests I occasionally have with friends, I've often thought the solution to all of our problems would be found in a photovoltaic paint.

No. the idea seems great, I just wanted to see how it was covered. Was just surprised I could not find a story online about it. That high a dollar figure in a down economy with the huge possible returns involved, I would have thought a story would have been pushed by those implementing it. Local governments love to brag when they have successes.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #122 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

I know that others have posted responses or questions to this post. Makes sense to use to space..not only providing shade, but producing power. Found these:

INSTALLATION FOR SANTA MONICA BLUE BUS PROGRESSES

REC Solar Announces Largest U.S. Carport Solar Installation

LA-DWP

East Los Angeles College - 1 Megawatt Photovoltaic Power Facility

Yes, I found many stories about this in California as well. It does not seem to be a new concept overall. Makes sense overall if it can be implemented properly. Carports are one ting, but what about putting all those Bus Stops to use as well...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #123 of 155
solar-powered-wi-fi-bus-stops/
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Yes, I found many stories about this in California as well. It does not seem to be a new concept overall. Makes sense overall if it can be implemented properly. Carports are one ting, but what about putting all those Bus Stops to use as well...
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #124 of 155
Try to avoid products containing Palm Oil. There is possible health risks, although there is conflicting research regarding its effect in heart disease. Large areas of rain forrest are being leveled to plant palm groves. Loss of biodiversity in areas of tropical Asia is partly a result of palm plantations.

Sustainable Palm Oil:
Rainforest Savior or Fig Leaf?
Quote:
Palm oil has overtaken soya as the worlds number one source of vegetable oil. It is found in everything from biscuits to biodiesel, detergents to potato chips, cookies to shampoo, and candy and cosmetics. In fact, palm oil is now found in about half of all packaged goods on the shelves.....
But palm oil is usually grown on former rainforest land sometimes recently-cleared land. Palm oil plantations cover 30,000 square kilometers of former forests in Indonesia alone, wiping out habitat for elephants, tigers, rhinos, orangutans and much else, and triggering enormous releases of carbon dioxide from lost forests and drained peat lands. By some counts Indonesia is, as a result, the worlds third-largest CO2 emitter, after China and the U.S.....

The Cost of the Biofuel Boom:
Destroying Indonesias Forests
Quote:
The clearing of Indonesias rain forest for palm oil plantations is having profound effects threatening endangered species, upending the lives of indigenous people, and releasing massive amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

CRUEL OIL---How Palm Oil Harms Health, Rainforest & Wildlife
Quote:
Palm oil, one of the worlds leading agricultural commodities, is widely used as a food ingredient and cooking oil. Unfortunately, not only does palm oil promote heart disease, but the vast plantations that grow oil palm trees have contributed to the destruction of the rainforest and wildlife of Southeast Asia. Those side effects are not broadly recognizedand avoidedby governments, food manufacturers, or consumers.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #125 of 155
The next time you buy salmon at the market, make sure that you get wild caught salmon rather than farm reared. Although more expensive, wild caught salmon is both healthier for you and it is better for the environment. Fish farms have a huge negative impact on the enviroment.

Wild Salmon Vs. Farmed Raised: Which is Better?
Quote:
Whats the Difference:
\t
Nutrition: Wild salmon is far more nutritious in terms of fat and protein content. Wild fish contain 20% more protein, 20% less fat and are in general much smaller. Even being fattier, farmed raised contain much less usable omega-3 fatty acids and and contain higher levels of omega-6 fatty acids. The lower the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids. Wild fish in general contain a much more favorable ratio of omega-3s to omega-6. The ratio for salmon is 15:1 for wild as compared to 3:1 for farmed raised.

PCBs: The levels of PCBs in farmed-raised were 8 times higher than found in wild caught salmon.

Disease and Contaminants: All salmon contain slight amounts of parasites and some even contain disease, but not at the same levels compared to farmed-raised. Seeing that they are held in giants nets in the ocean, its no surprise that aquaculture of salmon contain more disease. They are also given tons of antibiotics to fight off the diseases that they could be carrying in these closed spaces. Its scary to think that we have no idea what kind of antibiotics or pesticides are in these farmed fish.

Environmental: With so many fish packed together in a net in the ocean, there are bound to be negative impacts to the environment. Excess waste from these fish reduce the amount of oxygen in the water and hurt the nearby ecosystem. Also, whenever farmed fish escape from their nets, they can spread disease and lice that are normally not seen in wild fish. This can really hurt the wild populations by making it harder for young salmon to survive to adulthood.

Farm Raised Salmon Vs. Wild Ocean Caught Salmon
Quote:
There are several health related issues with farm raised salmon which can be found in your local grocery stores and restaurants.

PCB levels: Salmon absorb PCBs from contaminated sediments and from their food. Studies found that the fishmeal pellets fed to farm raised salmon is highly contaminated with PCBs. Farm raised salmon is dangerous because of the process of bioaccumulation. When you eat salmon, your digestive processes break down the contaminated salmon fat, releasing the PCBs into your system.

Higher Fat Content: Not only does sedentary effects pack fat onto farm raised salmon but the fishmeal they are fed also has a direct effect of their overall fat content. The oils from the fishmeal pack fat onto farm raised salmon which results in farm raised salmon having 52% more fat than wild ocean caught salmon. But the weight gain from additional fat also results in higher levels of PCBs and other contaminants in the farmed salmon.

Artificial Colorings: Farm raised salmon do not have this pink color, so they are given artificial colorings to make them more palatable to the eye. This basically makes them more marketable, since many consumers prefer fish with the traditional pink color. The chemicals used to turn farm raised salmon pink are canthaxanthin and astaxanthin.

Report on impacts of salmon farming:
Environmental impacts of salmon farming

You might remember something that was recently in the news, 'frankenfish' which is a GM Salmon. Raises some questions where we are going in food production.

Genetically Modified Salmon: The Meta-Question
Quote:
.....Opponents of GM foods argue that propagating these synthetic organisms will open a Pandoras box of risks that include poisoning the natural gene pool and poisoning our bodies with synthetic foods. Proponents of GM foods argue that genetic modification is not fundamentally different from the processes that horticulturalists and animal breeders have been using for millennia to develop desirable strains and breeds albeit with a greater reach often combining disparate species (e.g., instead of crossbreeding broccoli with cauliflower, genetic modification allows the crossbreeding of bacteria and corn). They also argue that concerns about propagation can be adequately addressed through appropriate safeguards (for example, sterile crops).......
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #126 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthony View Post

Recycling old cell phones, rather than throwing them away, has a huge impact on the environment. Inside every cell phone are toxic substances like lead, mercury and arsenic. There are lots of companies dedicated to keeping cell phones out of landfills through responsible ecycling. Check out one below.

http://www.e-cycle.com/sell-your-iphone

Another use for unwanted cell phones is to recycle it to services that help senior citizens of women victims of domestic violence....more @
http://charityguide.org/volunteer/fi...-recycling.htm

Even more of a major problem is old TVs, CRT computer monitors, computers and old electronics but there are services that do offer recycling....just google.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #127 of 155
Whats Outside Counts, Too: British Law Spurs Scrutiny of Excess Packaging
Quote:
The citizens of Lincolnshire, England, were so fed up with the layers of plastic and cardboard and Styrofoam that encased their store purchases this fall that they took a high-priced, highly wrapped piece of meat to court.

Specifically, the Lincolnshire County Council sued the Sainsburys supermarket chain for excessive packaging of its Taste the Difference Slow Matured Ultimate Beef Roasting Joint, which costs nearly $9 per pound, after receiving consumer complaints. No matter that the meat was a luxury item, the council said: the way it was packaged plastic-wrapped atop a PET tray under a clear plastic cover and then swathed in a fetching cardboard sleeve violated British law.

British regulations on excess packaging first took effect in 2003 in an effort to reduce waste, particularly items that cannot be recycled and go into a landfill. Those rules, strengthened two years ago in response to environmental concerns and an awareness that the nations landfills were reaching their limits, now require that producers keep packaging to the minimum required for products safety, hygiene and consumer acceptance.

That set off a nationwide experiment in rethinking how familiar products are sold, from Easter eggs to tubes of tomato paste to plastic jugs of fabric softener.

It seems the British are taking packaging to task.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #128 of 155
A wonderful speech from someone quite knowledgeable about both environmental issues and economics (unlike most enviro-advocates/greenies/etc.)

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #129 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

A wonderful speech from someone quite knowledgeable about both environmental issues and economics (unlike most enviro-advocates/greenies/etc.)

Just had time to skim it...a good read for others here..thanks for posting it.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #130 of 155
I'm jonesing for a Passive House.
post #131 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'm jonesing for a Passive House.

I don't understand why this kind of thing has to come from Europe. I know fuel prices are astronomical over there and provide an incentive, but it's been decades since Jobs and Gates started building their massive housing ideas and all we've seen are big LCDs that double as artwork.

Why isn't the Mac the nerve centre of every house already?
Why aren't the water, gas, electricity, alarm, TV and other systems reporting to my Mac about their status and possible problems?

What was the point of all those mega-millions spent by Gates and Jobs if there was no return?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #132 of 155
So, a few minor (very), real-life dilemmas for me:

--To replace or not to replace my incandescent light bulbs with CFLs. Electric rates are going up big-time in PA, and I'm considering it. However, I HATE fluorescent bulbs. I am very sensitive to types of light and I'm pretty sure I have some version of Seasonal Affective Disorder. When I built my house, I even got rid of the fluorescent light in the kitchen, using high hat floods instead. I have not ONE fluorescent in my house. They are also expensive. I hear there are "full spectrum" and "natural light" CFLs. Thoughts/experiences?

--Whether to go with LED bulbs for Christmas next year. They are also more energy efficient and last longer. However, I'm sort of a purist when it comes to traditional colors, and LEDs are quite different. I'm thinking I might stay with traditional lamps for my tree, but go LED outside.

Very minor things, but could lead to savings.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #133 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So, a few minor (very), real-life dilemmas for me:

--To replace or not to replace my incandescent light bulbs with CFLs. Electric rates are going up big-time in PA, and I'm considering it. However, I HATE fluorescent bulbs. I am very sensitive to types of light and I'm pretty sure I have some version of Seasonal Affective Disorder. When I built my house, I even got rid of the fluorescent light in the kitchen, using high hat floods instead. I have not ONE fluorescent in my house. They are also expensive. I hear there are "full spectrum" and "natural light" CFLs. Thoughts/experiences?

--Whether to go with LED bulbs for Christmas next year. They are also more energy efficient and last longer. However, I'm sort of a purist when it comes to traditional colors, and LEDs are quite different. I'm thinking I might stay with traditional lamps for my tree, but go LED outside.

Very minor things, but could lead to savings.

The CFLs are getting better (more options, better light, faster on, three ways and dimmers, etc.) and cheaper. We use a mix. There are some places where it just doesn't make sense or is a step back (right now) like rooms where you only go in for a few minutes and your our and the light is off before the CFL had time to even get to full brightness.

On the Christmas LED lights...these have also improved just in one year...but they're still expensive and, for us, the payoff was like 10 years! Now we don't do the whole Clark Griswold thing...just two simple trees in the house. So maybe the math works out differently if you do a lot more.

When the appliances start crapping out (please not this year!!!) we'll certainly get more energy efficient devices (we assume...more on that in a moment)...fridge, dryer, etc. are like 15 years old.

Overall though, our electrical usage is below national averages and probably slightly below our state average. In general we don't turn lots of lights on. We love the natural light we get during the day. The kids were well trained to turn lights off when not in use.

One thing though...and this is what that speech I posted gets to (on the specific topic of packaging)...much of the whole consumer energy efficiency "solutions" are focused at end-point solutions and fail to take into account the broader picture. Example: We recently replaced a dying dishwasher with new more water "efficient" one. Well...it isn't really...it uses less water per run...but it also washes less well so we a) run it more frequently, with fewer dishes and on the "heavy load" cycle. Oops.

We found something similar in an experiment we did with shower heads. We got a couple of shower heads that could easily be hacked to higher flow shower heads. Water usage actually went down! Why? Better shorter showers vs. worse, longer showers that actually used more water. Oops.

Same story with toilets. With solid waste the low flow toilets often need more flushes. Oops.

What should be done for water conservation is to privatize water utilities and go to market-based pricing. This will automatically cause people to adjust their water consumption and usage to the most valued uses and consider dropping the least valued uses all without mandating what kind of toilet or shower head one can put in their homes.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #134 of 155
per the original topic:

Drive older/used cars. Do NOT BUY NEW CARS!

A new car uses a (relatively) huge amount of resources to build... all those resources could be "preserved" by just not building that car!... go buy a used car and keep it in good condition.

Driving a 20 year old Civic is "better for the environment" than a new Prius. The old Civic gets just as good fuel mileage, but doesn't require the consumption of raw materials (and energy) to produce that the new car does.


Incandescent Bulbs:
... they are MUCH cheaper to produce than CFL's... especially from an "environmental"/raw materials viewpoint. Sure, the incandescent uses more electricity for a given amount of light, but it doesn't require the use of as much "toxic" material to manufacture (and dispose of.)


With regards to Electric Cars:
They are NOT zero-emisions. The emissions just occur at a different location... that electricity you use to charge it comes from the burning of coal, oil, uranium, etc... Yes they are MORE efficient, but not enough to justify their use from a global environmental viewpoint. (Meaning the resources needed to develop and build them outweigh the incremental efficiency gains.) ... Fewer tailpipe emissions can certainly improve LOCAL air-quality, but they don't affect the GLOBAL air quality when you still have to burn carbon to get the electricity needed to charge them.




The best thing ALL of us could do to be "green" based on current technologies, is to become politically active (even if doing nothing more than "writing" your representatives) to encourage the building of new and numerous Nuclear Power facilities.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #135 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

per the original topic:

Drive older/used cars. Do NOT BUY NEW CARS!

A new car uses a (relatively) huge amount of resources to build... all those resources could be "preserved" by just not building that car!... go buy a used car and keep it in good condition.

Driving a 20 year old Civic is "better for the environment" than a new Prius. The old Civic gets just as good fuel mileage, but doesn't require the consumption of raw materials (and energy) to produce that the new car does.


Incandescent Bulbs:
... they are MUCH cheaper to produce than CFL's... especially from an "environmental"/raw materials viewpoint. Sure, the incandescent uses more electricity for a given amount of light, but it doesn't require the use of as much "toxic" material to manufacture (and dispose of.)


With regards to Electric Cars:
They are NOT zero-emisions. The emissions just occur at a different location... that electricity you use to charge it comes from the burning of coal, oil, uranium, etc... Yes they are MORE efficient, but not enough to justify their use from a global environmental viewpoint. (Meaning the resources needed to develop and build them outweigh the incremental efficiency gains.) ... Fewer tailpipe emissions can certainly improve LOCAL air-quality, but they don't affect the GLOBAL air quality when you still have to burn carbon to get the electricity needed to charge them.




The best thing ALL of us could do to be "green" based on current technologies, is to become politically active (even if doing nothing more than "writing" your representatives) to encourage the building of new and numerous Nuclear Power facilities.


Can't disagree with most of that. I still think if you took all the cars in the US alone and had them run on electric power, you'd have better air quality by far. I agree though that nuclear is one of the ways to go. We need short, medium and long term energy strategy. In the short term, we need more domestic oil, which we have. In the medium term, we need to start looking at electric transportation and less reliance on fossil fuels. In the long term, we should not power our vehicles with fossil fuels and rely on nuclear, solar and wind power for electric generation.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #136 of 155
Thread Starter 
Go with LED light bulbs. No mercury problems. It will save you money in the long run, as well.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #137 of 155
The Redditch Borough Council seems to have found a solution to heat their swimming pool while reducing its carbon foot print.
Quote:
"The heat would otherwise be exhausted into the atmosphere."

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #138 of 155
My uncle is very DIY when it comes to implementing money (and power) saving features in his home. He managed to acquire some solar panels for a bargain, mount them on his roof, and connect them to a series of car batteries inside a storage room.

This system powers his front room and kitchen area.

Recently he told me of something he'd done that has drastically reduced his A/C bill: install attic fans. This is a particularly inexpensive and easy thing to do and is especially good for those who live in warm climates.

My uncle hooked up 6 large, silent computer case fans to his solar panel system and rigged them with a cheap thermostat that will automatically kick the fans on and blow the hot air out of the attic when it reaches a certain temperature. He mounted the whole rig to a section of plywood and placed it over one of his attic vents.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #139 of 155
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #140 of 155
Quote:

Newsflash: An 80 square foot "home" can use less energy than larger homes. Can we file this under "Duh!"?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #141 of 155
Thread Starter 
Somebody clearly didn't watch the whole video as the person being interviewed discussed how every piece of technology in the small home is scalable to larger sized homes.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #142 of 155
...and expose yourself to molds, toxins, disease, and pests:

Quote:
Poor indoor environmental quality is creating health problems today and impairs the ability of occupants to work and learn.

... available research indicates that climate change may make existing indoor environmental problems and introduce new problems by
  • Altering the frequency or severity of adverse outdoor conditions that affect the indoor environment.
  • Creating outdoor conditions that are more hospitable to pests, infectious agents, and disease vectors that can penetrate the indoor environment.
  • Leading to mitigation or adaptation measures and changes in occupant behavior that cause or exacerbate harmful indoor environmental conditions.

Of course the report suggests granting the EPA even more authority, why? To fix all the problems it's created of course

https://download.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13115
A is A
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A is A
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post #143 of 155
CFL users beware:

Compact fluorescent bulbs release cancer-causing chemicals when turned on, says new research

After having used CFLs myself for several years, I have gone back to incandescent bulbs.

While CFLs consumed less power, I found them to be unreliable and finicky. Over time, it seemed like their efficiency would deteriorate. I noticed that when I first turned them on, it would take 30 seconds or so for them to "warm up" and reach maximum illumination.

I also had problems with some CFLs not turning on at all unless I physically bumped the lamp or light fixture after flipping the power switch.

I always knew CFLs contained mercury, but I thought as long as we were careful and didn't break the glass, we would not be in harm's way. And I had no problem with dropping them off at a designated place for proper disposal when the time came.

The recent news about toxicity was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me.

We are actually stocking up on 100 watt incandescent bulbs now, as The State has determined that this proven, reliable technology is now a threat to the "American Way" and must be outlawed.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #144 of 155
Thread Starter 
Sounds like you bought shitty CFLs. I have never had problems like that. Also, fuck incandescent bulbs. If you want to trade in your CFLs for something else, go with LEDs.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #145 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sounds like you bought <expletive> CFLs. I have never had problems like that. Also, <expletive> incandescent bulbs. If you want to trade in your CFLs for something else, go with LEDs.

What is it you say about anecdotal evidence?

When the cost of LEDs becomes reasonable, I'm all over it.

I might check out energy-efficient incandescents, as well.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #146 of 155
Thread Starter 
You just used your own anecdotal evidence to condemn CFLs. So, shut up on that point. Secondly, I know a bit about CFLs and know that you if buy cheap ones, they are more apt to take a while to light up and fail earlier than advertised.

The LEDs, even at current prices, are reasonable. Go get some. Or, go buy higher quality CFLs.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #147 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You just used your own anecdotal evidence to condemn CFLs. So, shut up on that point. Secondly, I know a bit about CFLs and know that you if buy cheap ones, they are more apt to take a while to light up and fail earlier than advertised.

The LEDs, even at current prices, are reasonable. Go get some. Or, go buy higher quality CFLs.

You're the one using your own anecdotal evidence in an attempt to discredit mine.

Philips is not a cheap off brand. That's the brand I bought. But the functionality/reliability issues are really secondary to the toxicity issues for me. I can live with waiting 30 seconds for the CFL to warm up or smacking the lamp or fixture to get it to turn on. But I cannot live with them emitting cancer-causing agents into my home. That's my main concern.

That's fine that you consider LEDs reasonably priced. But I am not spending $30-$40 on one LED light bulb with the same lumens as a $0.50 60w incandescent bulb.

Once they go below $5 I'll take a look.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #148 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You just used your own anecdotal evidence to condemn CFLs. So, shut up on that point. Secondly, I know a bit about CFLs and know that you if buy cheap ones, they are more apt to take a while to light up and fail earlier than advertised.

The LEDs, even at current prices, are reasonable. Go get some. Or, go buy higher quality CFLs.

I have many CFL's in my home and they are generally ok. Instantly light up and give off fairly nice, if not a bit yellow, light. They cost more than incandescent lights, and they fail way sooner than advertised. Almost Always. I have not had but 2 so far that have lasted a full year. All my lights that are on dimmers are incandescent but the rest of the house is CFL. Take it for what it is worth. And LED lights are far from affordable in any real sense of the word. \
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #149 of 155
Candles. Maybe candles.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #150 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I have many CFL's in my home and they are generally ok. Instantly light up and give off fairly nice, if not a bit yellow, light. They cost more than incandescent lights, and they fail way sooner than advertised. Almost Always. I have not had but 2 so far that have lasted a full year. All my lights that are on dimmers are incandescent but the rest of the house is CFL. Take it for what it is worth. And LED lights are far from affordable in any real sense of the word. \

Pfft. You and your anecdotal evidence, NoahJ.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #151 of 155
CFLs are alright...I guess. The light they put out sucks. Have had a couple burn out on me far sooner than expected and advertised diminishing their payback. Warm up time sucks and excludes them from some applications.

Mostly though, stupid laws that effectively ban incandescents are stupid. if CFLs (or LEDs) are so great, then there's no need to force the use of them. But...hey...these are "progressives" we're talking about...they never met a nanny rule that forces people to do what they want that they didn't like...whether it's the amount of water running in my shower, the number of gallons in my toilet or the kind of lightbulbs I'm allowed to use...

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #152 of 155
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You're the one using your own anecdotal evidence in an attempt to discredit mine.

Philips is not a cheap off brand. That's the brand I bought. But the functionality/reliability issues are really secondary to the toxicity issues for me. I can live with waiting 30 seconds for the CFL to warm up or smacking the lamp or fixture to get it to turn on. But I cannot live with them emitting cancer-causing agents into my home. That's my main concern.

That's fine that you consider LEDs reasonably priced. But I am not spending $30-$40 on one LED light bulb with the same lumens as a $0.50 60w incandescent bulb.

Once they go below $5 I'll take a look.

Someone doesn't seem to understand the cost of electricity and replacement of incandescent light bulbs--let alone the cost to the environment. Of course, you think that global climate change is a myth so you couldn't give two shits about spending a little more up front to reduce your energy footprint.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #153 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Someone doesn't seem to understand the cost of electricity and replacement of incandescent light bulbs--let alone the cost to the environment. Of course, you think that global climate change is a myth so you couldn't give two shits about spending a little more up front to reduce your energy footprint.

If you want to talk about cost to the environment, lets talk about all the CFLs that are going to end up in landfills leeching mercury and cancer-causing toxins into the soil, shall we?

Regarding personal cost, if I decide that paying more on my electric bill is worth not having to deal with toxic chemicals being spewed into my home from CFLs, that's my business, not yours.

If I decide that spending $30-$40 to replace a single incandescent lightbulb with an LED light is not worth it to me, that is my business, not yours.

Earth's climate changes. It has always changed. It always will change. I believe AGW is a front for the globalist authoritarian movement.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #154 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Someone doesn't seem to understand the cost of electricity and replacement of incandescent light bulbs--let alone the cost to the environment. Of course, you think that global climate change is a myth so you couldn't give two shits about spending a little more up front to reduce your energy footprint.

The cost of LED lights does not pencil out very well. The up front cost is prohibitive. Long term benefits may be good, but the initial sticker shock is not inviting, in the slightest.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #155 of 155
The electricity cost savings vs. initial cost on CFLs vs. incandescent is workable. LEDs still have a bit to go.

Electricity is pretty damn cheap. A lot depends on your usage profile. We tend to not turn a lot of lights on, preferring daylight from our windows most of the time. We much prefer that to any other light. At night we really only have a couple of places where we have lights on for any real length of time (where the savings starts to add up much more quickly.)

Hard to find solid numbers on average annual electricity usage in the US (getting numbers ranging from 9k kwH to 14.4k per year). But, according to the DOE, where I live, the average per month is just under 700 kwH/month. We run, pretty consistently, about 20% below that.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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