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The TSA Feels its Oats - Page 5

post #161 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Agreed. Israel's airport security is extremely relevant and, perhaps, a model for the US.

Israel should be a model for the United States.Security wise and nationalistic wise also.
post #162 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Israel should be a model for the United States.Security wise and nationalistic wise also.

Yeah...kill a few ragheads... US is far too weak there...

I hear the brave boys of the IDF recently caught a nine-year old terrorist scumbag and used him to approach suspect packages so he'd get blown up instead of the brave Israeli soldiers...

This is the sort of thinking we need...saves Israeli lives and reduces the scumbags before they get too old...

Well done!

Why can't the US follow these examples???

PS: luckily these brave soldiers got off with a light sentence....another victory for freedom!!
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post #163 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Israel should be a model for the United States.Security wise and nationalistic wise also.



Just so my comment is made clear and not open to mis-interpretation: I'm not an advocate of much of what Israel does, however from an airport security procedural perspective, from what I've read they are much better than the US (supposedly one of the best in the world) and do not porno-scan and/or grope passengers. In fact the head of their security has come out and said these scanners are pretty much useless and that anyone who knows how they work could easily sneak through a bomb though big enough to blow up a 747.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #164 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post



Just so my comment is made clear and not open to mis-interpretation: I'm not an advocate of much of what Israel does, however from an airport security procedural perspective, from what I've read they are much better than the US (supposedly one of the best in the world) and do not porno-scan and/or grope passengers. In fact the head of their security has come out and said these scanners are pretty much useless and that anyone who knows how they work could easily sneak through a bomb though big enough to blow up a 747.

They do not have inland flights . So any plane blowing up will most likely blow up over some other country. However the US .....
They also have psychiatric services at their airport to deal with tourists who think they are Jesus after visiting.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #165 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I don't think it does exist. Al Qaeda is merely a media buzz word.

What does exist - again imo, could be wrong - is numerous disparate Islamist groups on the one hand and numerous wannabe terrorist lone nutters on the other.

I seriously question whether these two interact.

Put it this way - you are a professional secret terror cell or group. Some wannabe idiot from some urban estate with a chip on his shoulder wants to join up. I think not.

Of course if these lone extremists prove themselves they may get assimilated but that takes perhaps traveling to Afghanistan and putting your life on the line and making some effort for a few years.

Many don't hack it and do a bit of home-made DIY - I think the 7/7 London bombers were of this sort. They may get support from radical mosques perhaps but this again is not 'al Qaeda'.

OK. I think all of that is quite reasonable.

Quote:

Al Qaeda was OBLs one time outfit. I do not think they exist any longer. It's questionable they ever did.

I have an issue with that last part. I don't see how that's questionable.

Quote:


I'm not sure he ever used the term for his grouping - though interestingly, now the West has set this up as a sort of 'uber-threat' many Islamists do play on that and claim to be so to tap into the fear associated with it.

I don't think it matters whether or not he used the term, but I agree that Islamists are often put under the AQ "umbrella" by the media, governments, etc.

Quote:

Also I have to question 'dedicated to our destruction'. Where do you get that? OBL's original group had specific goals and that was not one of them.

Other groups have their own goals and very few are of that nature to my knowledge.

That's where I get off the bus you're driving. I'm sure not all Islamist groups have that goal, but how do you explain things like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=12204726

Quote:
Al Qaeda Promises U.S. Death By A 'Thousand Cuts'
Terror Group Boasts That Printer Bomb Cost Only $4200, Meant To Bleed U.S. Economy

...The strategy, the magazine said, was "of attacking the enemy with smaller, but more frequent operations is what some may refer to as the strategy of a thousand cuts. The aim is to bleed the enemy to death."

Just a quick and dirty example. Statements like these are made seemingly everyday, be the videos or websites or what have you.
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post #166 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Hmm.... Change it to "Moon river"? ... and up one octave?

Nice. Musical humor=approved.
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post #167 of 304
More on the bad behavior from the thugs at the TSA.


http://online.wsj.com/video/tsa-pat-...871E6B4ED.html


More americans to die on highways by avoiding air travel than those saved by from possible terrorist attack.
post #168 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's where I get off the bus you're driving. I'm sure not all Islamist groups have that goal, but how do you explain things like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=12204726



Just a quick and dirty example. Statements like these are made seemingly everyday, be the videos or websites or what have you.

One possible explanation is that the "news" we hear about Al Qaeda could be like Emmanuel Goldstein from Orwell's novel 1984.

In other words, it may be a form of propaganda intended to try to justify the wars, the "enhanced interrogation techniques", the TSA pat-downs, et al., and to unite the western world against an enemy bent on their destruction.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #169 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

One possible explanation is that the "news" we hear about Al Qaeda could be like Emmanuel Goldstein from Orwell's novel 1984.

In other words, it may be a form of propaganda intended to try to justify the wars, the "enhanced interrogation techniques", the TSA pat-downs, et al., and to unite the western world against an enemy bent on their destruction.

Just a conspiracy theory there, no?
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post #170 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

OK. I think all of that is quite reasonable.

Uh-oh...

Now I need to rethink it...

Quote:
I have an issue with that last part. I don't see how that's questionable.

I am not questioning that OBL had a militant Islamist organization - I am questioning:

a) the name of it

and

b) the nature of it

As well as it's continued existence. This is pretty much my stance here:

Quote:
Marc Sageman, a psychiatrist and former CIA officer, said that Al-Qaeda would now just be a "loose label for a movement that seems to target the West". "There is no umbrella organisation. We like to create a mythical entity called [al-Qaeda] in our minds, but that is not the reality we are dealing with."

Wiki

I also hold this view:

Quote:
Curtis argues that, after their failed revolutions, bin Laden and Zawahiri had little or no popular support, let alone a serious complex organisation of terrorists, and were dependent upon independent operatives to carry out their new call for jihad.

The film instead argues that in order to prosecute bin Laden in absentia for the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings, US prosecutors had to prove he was the head of a criminal organisation responsible for the bombings.

They find a former associate of bin Laden, Jamal al-Fadl, and pay him to testify that bin Laden was the head of a massive terrorist organisation called "al-Qaeda". With the September 11th attacks, Neo-Conservatives in the new Republican government of George W. Bush use this created concept of an organisation to justify another crusade against a new evil enemy, leading to the launch of the War on Terrorism.

Link

Quote:
I don't think it matters whether or not he used the term, but I agree that Islamists are often put under the AQ "umbrella" by the media, governments, etc.

It's more than that though. My argument is that bin Laden himself had very little power but became for a while a figurehead for the West and the Islamists - both of whom had a vested interest in making him out to be a super-villain.

But it was not the case. And we can see that now he is marginalized, how things are now - ie fragmented Islamist groups - is how they always were. Just with a bigger spotlight on them.

Quote:
That's where I get off the bus you're driving. I'm sure not all Islamist groups have that goal, but how do you explain things like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=12204726

Well, that references "al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP" - which supports my theory above and the one you agreed with when you agreed they get put under the same umbrella.

This group AQAP was only founded in 2009.

As to 'destruction' - why does this example support that? All terror groups target civilians - IRA, Baader Meinhof...were they 'dedicated to our destruction'?

No, I think not. In a way, it's just what they do...a lot of it is even meant as a message to other terrorists rather than Society in some cases....sort of saying 'look take us seriously, we can do this...do business with us'.

Because Terrorism is a business and the various Cells are essentially Corporations with money-making agendas to varying extents.

Quote:
Just a quick and dirty example. Statements like these are made seemingly everyday, be the videos or websites or what have you.

I have a problem with that.

Why would they be allowed to use the net? Where I am now, I know of several hosts closed down for download hosting - one even for kiddie porn hosting - and many people are prosecuted.

Besides, there is also a propaganda war and FOR SURE the West will post some of these themselves. Without a shadow of doubt.

Many of the bin Laden vids are clear fakes...you can see they are different people.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #171 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Uh-oh...

Now I need to rethink it...


I am not questioning that OBL had a militant Islamist organization - I am questioning:

a) the name of it

and

b) the nature of it


OK.

Quote:

As well as it's continued existence. This is pretty much my stance here:



Wiki

I also hold this view:



Link


Understood. Again, I don't disagree.

Quote:

It's more than that though. My argument is that bin Laden himself had very little power but became for a while a figurehead for the West and the Islamists - both of whom had a vested interest in making him out to be a super-villain.

Agreed.

Quote:

But it was not the case. And we can see that now he is marginalized, how things are now - ie fragmented Islamist groups - is how they always were. Just with a bigger spotlight on them.

Well, that references "al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP" - which supports my theory above and the one you agreed with when you agreed they get put under the same umbrella.

This group AQAP was only founded in 2009.

My point is that the lack of true unity or organization under the AQ umbrella doesn't mean there is no threat. I may be wrong, but I think that's where you were going initially. No?

Quote:

As to 'destruction' - why does this example support that? All terror groups target civilians - IRA, Baader Meinhof...were they 'dedicated to our destruction'?

No, I think not. In a way, it's just what they do...a lot of it is even meant as a message to other terrorists rather than Society in some cases....sort of saying 'look take us seriously, we can do this...do business with us'.

Because Terrorism is a business and the various Cells are essentially Corporations with money-making agendas to varying extents.


Wait...so what Islamist terror groups want is....money? That's why there are seemingly constant terror attempts?

Quote:

I have a problem with that.

Why would they be allowed to use the net? Where I am now, I know of several hosts closed down for download hosting - one even for kiddie porn hosting - and many people are prosecuted.

Besides, there is also a propaganda war and FOR SURE the West will post some of these themselves. Without a shadow of doubt.

Many of the bin Laden vids are clear fakes...you can see they are different people.

You're suggesting that statements/threats/etc are not made online? I don't follow.

As for the bin Laden videos...how would you know? Do you have some training in authenticating these things that I'm unaware of?
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post #172 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Wait...so what Islamist terror groups want is....money? That's why there are seemingly constant terror attempts?

I'm not saying that's what sego means, but is that so unreasonable an assumption?

For example, most of the the monetary aid we send to Pakistan to help keep the Taliban at bay actually ends up in the hands of the Taliban.

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post #173 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My point is that the lack of true unity or organization under the AQ umbrella doesn't mean there is no threat. I may be wrong, but I think that's where you were going initially. No?

I mean the threat is exaggerated.

I'm sure it exists but it is unlikely to rank anywhere near as high as it is pitched.

You could probably work it out..... number of muslims in the world -> percentage of radicalized Muslims -> opportunities etc.

Quote:
Wait...so what Islamist terror groups want is....money? That's why there are seemingly constant terror attempts?

The 'seemingly constant' ones are partly fake (imo) to keep the issue in the public mind. Or to force legislation or perhaps some other gain.

For example...last week it was announced that a terror attack had been uncovered in Berlin:

Bomb found on Munich-bound plane

That received saturation coverage here.

This did not:

Bomb was security test

Seems it was a dummy put there by security forces (hahahahah).

Re money: yes....some are businesses that NEED (as opposed to 'want') money to continue to exist.

How do they buy weapons? How do they train people? How do they support themselves?

Remember they cannot make money legally..... so they do deals with each other. Abu Nidal for example made millions for his terror group in the 70's and 80's by airlines paying him NOT to hijack them...kind of a 'safe list'.

Drugs is another one...armed robbery is always a favourite. Some have legal business fronts.

But my point is that if a terror group wants to buy weapons from the IRA (say) or an Islamist group then if they HAVEN'T done some form of act in the public eye then they are not credible are they?

The partners in the deal need to know they are not the Feds for one thing....

Quote:
You're suggesting that statements/threats/etc are not made online? I don't follow.

Some are made online by wannabees and minor radical groups who 'call for things' but do not actively do them.

Al Qaeda Homepages and terrorist.com do not exist - would be silly really wouldn't it? Same reason bin Laden does not use the net or phone if he is alive.

Fake ones by the security forces are the main examples imo.

Quote:
As for the bin Laden videos...how would you know? Do you have some training in authenticating these things that I'm unaware of?

Well..I know what he looks like and I can see when someone claiming to be him is someone else. All you need is eyes....

The CIA make such vids all the time... from Washington Post

Quote:
The agency actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. The actors were drawn from some of us darker-skinned employees, he said.

Eventually, things ground to a halt, the other former officer said, because no one could come to agreement on the projects.
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post #174 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I'm not saying that's what sego means, but is that so unreasonable an assumption?

For example, most of the the monetary aid we send to Pakistan to help keep the Taliban at bay actually ends up in the hands of the Taliban.

If he's saying that money is their primary goal, then yes...unreasonable. Now, do they need money? Sure. But it's a tool, not the end itself.
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post #175 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I mean the threat is exaggerated.

I'm sure it exists but it is unlikely to rank anywhere near as high as it is pitched.

You could probably work it out..... number of muslims in the world -> percentage of radicalized Muslims -> opportunities etc.

It probably has been exaggerated, at least to some degree. From your previous postings, I got the impression you were saying it didn't exist at all.

Quote:


The 'seemingly constant' ones are partly fake (imo) to keep the issue in the public mind. Or to force legislation or perhaps some other gain.

Yeah, but that really is just an opinion. I don't think you have much support for it. Yes, I see the example that follows....

Quote:

For example...last week it was announced that a terror attack had been uncovered in Berlin:

Bomb found on Munich-bound plane

That received saturation coverage here.

This did not:

Bomb was security test

Seems it was a dummy put there by security forces (hahahahah).


Well, I saw/read coverage of both parts of the story, actually. I believe the second part was on Drudge Report yesterday, so it got quite a bit of coverage. Regarding the story itself, though: I know the security chief admitted to placing the "bomb," but what's not clear to me is if he actually considered it to be a "security exercise." Also, what was his agenda? Was he just a loon? I really don't know.

Quote:

Re money: yes....some are businesses that NEED (as opposed to 'want') money to continue to exist.

How do they buy weapons? How do they train people? How do they support themselves?

Remember they cannot make money legally..... so they do deals with each other. Abu Nidal for example made millions for his terror group in the 70's and 80's by airlines paying him NOT to hijack them...kind of a 'safe list'.

Drugs is another one...armed robbery is always a favourite. Some have legal business fronts.

I'm not arguing their need for money to continue operations, support themselves, etc. But money is the means, not the end. It's not like they are a mafia---quite the opposite. A mafia would use violence as the means to make money. Terrorists use money to inflict terror.

Quote:

But my point is that if a terror group wants to buy weapons from the IRA (say) or an Islamist group then if they HAVEN'T done some form of act in the public eye then they are not credible are they?

The partners in the deal need to know they are not the Feds for one thing....

I suppose...though I'm not seeing the relevance. Are you saying that they only commit acts of terror to become credible enough to make money, buy weapons, etc? I think that's backwards if so. Granted, credibility would be an issue (or I think it would--it makes sense), but terrorists don't attack just to impress their friends.

Quote:

Some are made online by wannabees and minor radical groups who 'call for things' but do not actively do them.

Al Qaeda Homepages and terrorist.com do not exist - would be silly really wouldn't it? Same reason bin Laden does not use the net or phone if he is alive.

Fake ones by the security forces are the main examples imo.

Again, really just an opinion, to which you're of course entitled. You don't really offer any support.

Quote:

Well..I know what he looks like and I can see when someone claiming to be him is someone else. All you need is eyes....

I disagree. I'm not saying they are all real or fake. I'm saying I don't know. I really don't think you do, either. I would want to know what the intel services say about a particular video.

Quote:

The CIA make such vids all the time... from Washington Post

You're sort of moving the goalposts here. I state that neither of us really knows which videos are fake or real, and you seem to infer that I'm saying the CIA doesn't make videos. I'm sure they do. So? That doesn't mean that every bind laden video and/or audio recording ever made is a forgery, does it?

And as for that example: It concerns a completely different kind of video. It's in the context of "wacky ideas" the CIA had. It certainly has nothing to do with a video intended to purport that bin Laden is alive and still a threat. Totally different, actually...if you read the whole article.
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post #176 of 304
I think the biggest question in all this terrorism BS is why haven't "they" made any real effort to strike at the soft targets in the US where they could create a real sense of insecurity, fear and terror? There are plenty to hit and it would probably be astonishingly easy (and certainly compared to hijacking a plane.)

Additionally 9/11 (the base and foundation of all the crap we've been subjected to since) seems like and odd "terrorist" operation. I'd go so far as to say that it wasn't even really intended as a typical "terrorist" attack. In other words the goal wasn't to terrorize Americans per se. These guys hijacked four planes and had two very specific targets. One of these targets was expressly military. Frankly 9/11 feels more like a (guerrilla warfare) military attack than a classical "terror" attack.

A true terror attack would have attacked pure civilian targets. Places like shopping malls, schools, restaurant districts (during lunch time), subways, rush hour traffic, etc.

Those weren't attacks against the American people, they were attacks agains the American government.

Imagine if those same 19 guys had all strapped dynamite to their bodies and suicide-bombed 19 shopping malls (or even 4)?!?!

All of this brings into serious question the constant propaganda offered by the US government and its compliant mainstream media mouthpieces about the constant and serious threat of future terrorist attacks.

Frankly, as far as airline safety goes the two biggest steps that were taken to ensure better airplane security were putting a stronger door on the cockpit and arming the flight crew. The next steps that would provide further, better security than all this porno-scanning and sexual assault groping would be for the airlines to vigorously train their flight crews (including the attendants) and even ticketing agents in good "behavior profiling" and observational techniques to enable them to spot a potential threat ASAP.

We don't need the body scanners and groping. This is not making anyone safer (probably less safe in fact) and it's violating the rights and (more importantly) the dignity of our fellow human-beings.

If we want to be concerned about things that might be making making Americans less safe we ought to look at the 20 stealth fighter jets the US wants to give Israel to bribe them (almost certainly unsuccessfully) into a "peace" agreement with the Palestinians.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #177 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think the biggest question in all this terrorism BS is why haven't "they" made any real effort to strike at the soft targets in the US where they could create a real sense of insecurity, fear and terror? There are plenty to hit and it would probably be astonishingly easy (and certainly compared to hijacking a plane.)

Because there are/were no sleeper cells to speak of, that's why. There just aren't Islamic terrorists that live here for the most part. That means they have to travel into the US, which has become amazingly difficult if you're an Islamist.

Quote:

Additionally 9/11 (the base and foundation of all the crap we've been subjected to since) seems like and odd "terrorist" operation. I'd go so far as to say that it wasn't even really intended as a typical "terrorist" attack. In other words the goal wasn't to terrorize Americans per se. These guys hijacked four planes and had two very specific targets. One of these targets was expressly military. Frankly 9/11 feels more like a (guerrilla warfare) military attack than a classical "terror" attack.

A true terror attack would have attacked pure civilian targets. Places like shopping malls, schools, restaurant districts (during lunch time), subways, rush hour traffic, etc.

Imagine if those same 19 guys had all strapped dynamite to their bodies and suicide-bombed 19 shopping malls (or even 4)?!?!

I agree with that, actually. But again, they now have to 1) Get here and 2) Prepare/plan without detection and 3) Execute the plan without detection. Not so hard for a homegrown militant nutjob, but pretty hard for a bunch of young males from Saudi Arabia in these times.
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post #178 of 304
post #179 of 304
Maybe airline travel is more of a right than previously thought.

If you also take into consideration how much tax payer money is used to support and provide transportation services and infrastructure this muddies the waters even more.

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post #180 of 304
"No Dose of Backscatter Ionizing Radiation
Has Ever Been Proven Safe."

Russia Today points out an important detail being left out of most mainstream media reports about the new body scanning devices being rolled out in airports everywhere: former Department of Homeland Security Chief, Michael Chertoff, who has been advocating this technology on any news program that will have him is personally profiting from their implementation. As a Security Consultant and Chairman of the Chertoff Group, one of his main clients is Rapiscan, a manufacturer of these devices.

Last year, the Department of Homeland Security awarded contracts of US$160 million each to two manufacturers of these back-scattering devices, one which which was Rapiscan.

Beyond the issue of Chertoff's illegal advertising his product on news programs by pretending to be a public servant, there is some debate about the safety of these new Back-scatter X-Ray Body Scanning devices. One former intelligence agent and present-day security consultant, Wayne Simmons appeared on Andrew Napolitano's "Liberty Pen" and said that while the device is an excellent tool, "There is no dose of backscatter ionizing radiation that has ever been proven safe," and that he would prefer to see only passengers who are deemed to be suspicious going through these devices, with the bulk going through the metal detectors, with which we've all become accustomed.

Recently, passenger John Tyner was singled out to go through one of these machines but chose to "opt out," which meant he'd be subjected to the TSA's new irrationally invasive pat-down method. As he was barefoot and taken aside by the TSA worker he turned on his cellphone camera and said: "If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested." Tyner then uploaded the video to his YouTube account and he became a instant hero as it went viral.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #181 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Because there are/were no sleeper cells to speak of, that's why. There just aren't Islamic terrorists that live here for the most part. That means they have to travel into the US, which has become amazingly difficult if you're an Islamist.

Two points:

Figures are vague but there may be as many a 7 Million Muslims in the US. If there are no sleeper cells and terrorists need to arrive from outside then it means several things:

1) Radicalism is far less present - and thus less of a threat - than claimed. 0 out of 7 million for starters.

2) Muslim radicalism is less of a threat than other types in the US - while there are no home-grown terror groups, no sleeper cells and a non0-radical Muslim community there ARE very many right-wing and 'Christian' militias. They are home-grown and they have planted bombs.

So they would be a greater threat.

My second point supports the first: no sleeper cells etc in the US - fine. Radicals have to come in. OK.

But what about Europe? Massive swathes of radicalized Muslims apparently in Germany for example....free travel and no borders across Europe...no attacks so far on German soil.

In fact, in 10 years there have been only two significant ones: London and Madrid.

Two converted to actuality weighed against literally thousands of warnings. Thousands.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #182 of 304
Yes we can criminalize applesauce carrying grandmothers caring for their ailing mothers.

TSA Thugs Lose Case Against Woman with Applesauce April 21, 2010


How's that hopey changey stuff working out for ya?
post #183 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Two points:

Figures are vague but there may be as many a 7 Million Muslims in the US. If there are no sleeper cells and terrorists need to arrive from outside then it means several things:

1) Radicalism is far less present - and thus less of a threat - than claimed. 0 out of 7 million for starters.

2) Muslim radicalism is less of a threat than other types in the US - while there are no home-grown terror groups, no sleeper cells and a non0-radical Muslim community there ARE very many right-wing and 'Christian' militias. They are home-grown and they have planted bombs.

So they would be a greater threat.

That's what it seems like, yes.

Quote:

My second point supports the first: no sleeper cells etc in the US - fine. Radicals have to come in. OK.

But what about Europe? Massive swathes of radicalized Muslims apparently in Germany for example....free travel and no borders across Europe...no attacks so far on German soil.

In fact, in 10 years there have been only two significant ones: London and Madrid.

Two converted to actuality weighed against literally thousands of warnings. Thousands.

Hard to tell what that means. I'd say that there aren't as many radicalized Muslims (at least in the "let's destroy the West" sense) as thought. I'd also say that efforts to prevent terror are absolutely massive in all parts of the West. I don't think that we've just been lucky, nor do I think all terror prevention techniques are visible.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #184 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yes we can criminalize applesauce carrying grandmothers caring for their ailing mothers.

TSA Thugs Lose Case Against Woman with Applesauce April 21, 2010


How's that hopey changey stuff working out for ya?

My God.... I know Palin is a laughing stock around the world and comes up with these moronic embarrassments on a regular basis but someone is actually quoting her?????

WITHOUT EMBARRASSMENT????

What the fuck???
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #185 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's what it seems like, yes.

Seems like things are out of whack then too...

Quote:
Hard to tell what that means. I'd say that there aren't as many radicalized Muslims (at least in the "let's destroy the West" sense) as thought. I'd also say that efforts to prevent terror are absolutely massive in all parts of the West. I don't think that we've just been lucky, nor do I think all terror prevention techniques are visible.

The question is not how many but rather 'how effective' I would say.

Or even before that I would venture a 'so what?'

In one sense I also 'want to destroy the West'. It really ain't that great if you have the sensitivity to see through the bullshit and haven't learned to love the whip.

It depends more I think on how one goes about the 'destroying' and - to a larger degree - what you replace it with.

But in the abstract I would not be sorry to see the West slide into oblivion...as indeed it is doing before our eyes.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #186 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

My God.... I know Palin is a laughing stock around the world and comes up with these moronic embarrassments on a regular basis but someone is actually quoting her?????

WITHOUT EMBARRASSMENT????

What the fuck???

I "refudiate" what you say.

Whos laughing now? Sarah Palins refudiate Oxfords Top Word 2010



無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #187 of 304
Shamelessly ripped from elsewhere...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #188 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I think "Don't Touch My Junk" could very well replace "Don't Tread On Me" as the Tea Party slogan.

Seems more relevant in today's world, doesn't it?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #189 of 304
I really don't see "Don't Touch My Junk" as a conservative or tea party specific view. The other internet locales I frequent are filled with very, very liberal people who are INCREDIBLY outraged at the TSA.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #190 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I really don't see "Don't Touch My Junk" as a conservative or tea party specific view. The other internet locales I frequent are filled with very, very liberal people who are INCREDIBLY outraged at the TSA.

This certainly should be a bi-partisan or cross-partisan issue. This should be a people vs. the state issue. Personal freedom and privacy right liberals should be pissed. Small government conservatives should be pissed. Feminists should be pissed. Lots of people should be pissed.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #191 of 304
Exactly, so I'd appreciate it if certain people on this board would stop politicizing it or staking claims to be the only group wanting liberty.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #192 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Exactly, so I'd appreciate it if certain people on this board would stop politicizing it or staking claims to be the only group wanting liberty.

Yes, I agree. It is quite offensive and despicable when one particular group or faction claims to be the sole and exclusive guardian of liberty.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #193 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Exactly, so I'd appreciate it if certain people on this board would stop politicizing it or staking claims to be the only group wanting liberty.

Who is doing that? I agree, it should be a bi-partisan issue.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #194 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I really don't see "Don't Touch My Junk" as a conservative or tea party specific view. The other internet locales I frequent are filled with very, very liberal people who are INCREDIBLY outraged at the TSA.

The tea party didn't start out nor does it declare it self to be a branch of the Republican party. It has been labeled that by leftists who dismissed their concerns as racist, astroturfing, you name it because rather than address them, they'd rather slander the source. Likewise since most leftists are hypocritical and cynical with regard to their principles, they can't address this because it is being done by the government and of course under the stewardship of President Obama himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Exactly, so I'd appreciate it if certain people on this board would stop politicizing it or staking claims to be the only group wanting liberty.

So simply step up and claim it. No one has said leftists cannot want it but no one's going to do the work for you. If the people you frequent with are supposedly so outraged, then post the images they create, post links to their stories and best of all, post their criticisms of the parties in charge that are doing this.

It's hard to do that though when it is the government doing this and your belief system states that the government can do no wrong. You end up sounding like Wormhole whereby you sound off your rocker and are stuck pointing a finger at five year olds for daring to think they have a right to see grandma on Thanksgiving without being sexually assaulted.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #195 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It's hard to do that though when it is the government doing this and your belief system states that the government can do no wrong.

Ummm...BINGO?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #196 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The tea party didn't start out nor does it declare it self to be a branch of the Republican party. It has been labeled that by leftists who dismissed their concerns as racist, astroturfing, you name it because rather than address them. Likewise since most leftists are hypocritical and cynical with regard to their principles, they can't address this because it is being done by the government and of course under the stewardship of President Obama himself.



So simply step up and claim it. No one has said leftists cannot want it but no one's going to do the work for you. If the people you frequent with are supposedly so outraged, then post the images they create, post links to their stories and best of all, post their criticisms of the parties in charge that are doing this.

It's hard to do that though when it is the government doing this and your belief system states that the government can do no wrong. You end up sounding like Wormhole whereby you sound off your rocker and are stuck pointing a finger at five year olds for daring to think they have a right to see grandma on Thanksgiving without being sexually assaulted.

Why has every tea party candidate an (R)..?
Yes, I don't want anyone to see their grand parents on thanksgiving .. and I want TSA agents shove their non changed latex gloves up everyone's ass especially kids. Private security did so much better on 9/11 we should privatize security again....
Turns out the father of this child undressed him to speed things up, but who would care about details like that..?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #197 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Private security did so much better on 9/11 we should privatize security again....

Indeed the total of all that is airport and airline security can be summed up in one event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Turns out the father of this child undressed him to speed things up, but who would care about details like that..?

Out of frustration over the fact that simply patting down the short wasn't sufficient for TSA-dipshit trying to smoke out 8 year old terrorists.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #198 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Indeed the total of all that is airport and airline security can be summed up in one event.



Out of frustration over the fact that simply patting down the short wasn't sufficient for TSA-dipshit trying to smoke out 8 year old terrorists.

What if his mommy is being held hostage and if he doesn't carry the bomb they will kill her?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #199 of 304
Isn't it great when you can get "liberals" and "progressives" to advocate for government totalitarianism and the violation of people's rights. They seem to go for it so easily and willingly.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #200 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Indeed the total of all that is airport and airline security can be summed up in one event.

Event size : very large.

Current cost to US of private security goof on 9/11 14 trillion.
Indeed the total of all that is airport and airline security can be summed up in one event.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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