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The TSA Feels its Oats - Page 2

post #41 of 304
Quote:
I see. So, in the name of fighting terrorism, we're willing to start wars, waterboard people, and kill civilians with unmanned drones. But the ONE line we won't cross is… our waistline.

- Lewis Black, on tonight's Daily Show
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post #42 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

This episode still rankles. Department of Homeland "Security" assholes.

Don't you feel safe though?

... and isn't that all that matters?

The TSA is feeling you! So we can all feel safe!

What a wonderful job they're doing. Let's all give them some more money.
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post #43 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Quote:
I see. So, in the name of fighting terrorism, we're willing to start wars, waterboard people, and kill civilians with unmanned drones. But the ONE line we won't cross is our waistline.

- Lewis Black, on tonight's Daily Show

In all fairness, there are some of us who are just as (if not more) opposed to those things.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In all fairness, there are some of us who are just as (if not more) opposed to those things.

You know, I tried to ask someone at work today if they were still ok with flying given the likelihood of possibly being groped or watching the TSA putting their hands down your, or your spouses, pants in the name of safety.

Instead of actually answering that he went off on a tirade about how the republicans brought this on themselves. Sidestepped into how it is hypocritical to say it is ok for wiretapping and reading our emails but that if they want to put their hands on us suddenly it is not ok.

I am not sure if he understood that, first I was asking him about what he thought for himself, not for the people who implemented those policies. And second, that I was not the implementer or supporter of those same policies. After I tried to explain that to him and asked if he wanted to discuss it anymore he continued to rant about it and rehash the same position. I was forced to acknowledge that he was not going to answer the question and that he just wanted to rant. First time I have seen the same tactics used on this board in a face to face situation. Made me sick to my stomach. Hope it is not a sign of discourse to come with him, he has been a great person to discuss things with for quite a while (2+ years now).

All that to say, one does not excuse the other, nor does it make the other somehow less invasive or wrong.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #45 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You know, I tried to ask someone at work today if they were still ok with flying given the likelihood of possibly being groped or watching the TSA putting their hands down your, or your spouses, pants in the name of safety.

Instead of actually answering that he went off on a tirade about how the republicans brought this on themselves. Sidestepped into how it is hypocritical to say it is ok for wiretapping and reading our emails but that if they want to put their hands on us suddenly it is not ok.

I am not sure if he understood that, first I was asking him about what he thought for himself, not for the people who implemented those policies. And second, that I was not the implementer or supporter of those same policies. After I tried to explain that to him and asked if he wanted to discuss it anymore he continued to rant about it and rehash the same position. I was forced to acknowledge that he was not going to answer the question and that he just wanted to rant. First time I have seen the same tactics used on this board in a face to face situation. Made me sick to my stomach. Hope it is not a sign of discourse to come with him, he has been a great person to discuss things with for quite a while (2+ years now).

All that to say, one does not excuse the other, nor does it make the other somehow less invasive or wrong.

I know...the old "two wrongs make a right argument." Gotta love it. \

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #46 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I know...the old "two wrongs make a right argument." Gotta love it. \

Flying has become less and less ok as time goes by, and I have flown internationally many times over the past few years, even as recently as 2 months ago. I love to travel, but if this is what there is to look forward to, I will not be flying any longer.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #47 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...scan-resistor/



I've been following this for a few days. Anyone else? The story is interesting. The man refuses a body scan, then objects to the pat down because they may touch his groin area. He talks to several supervisors, and finally decides not to board the plane. Yet, he is detained and told that he cannot leave the airport, lest he face a civil penalty of $10,000. He is told that he must complete the screening process in order to be able to leave. He finally did leave...but whether or not he was "allowed" to is in question. Now, the TSA has announced that they will investigate this individual.

My take: I understand the need for security and realize that when I fly, I give up certain rights. It's just the way it is. I do think that we should spend more time and resources looking for terrorists instead of the tools they use (not racial profiling per se, but behavior profiling that can use race as a component..just like any criminal investigation). I really don't care about the body scanners or who sees me naked, provided the scanners are safe (which may be debatable). I think that limitations on liquids and things like taking off my shoes are inconvenient, but I understand the need.

I do, however, have a problem with with this "enhanced" pat down (for lack of a better term). Rumor has it that they are touching the genital areas of children, the elderly, etc. They are essentially groping anyone who doesn't go through the scanner. This I have a problem with, and where I think Mr. Tyner has a point. He didn't sign up to be molested. If anyone else did this to someone that was not a criminal suspect, it would be molestation. The agents have no probable cause, and as such I believe such an intrusive pat down is a Fourth Amendment violation. I see no reason why a standard pat down, explosive sniffing dog and metal detector wand won't do.

Further, the fact that the TSA can investigate Mr. Tyner outside the confines of the airport is chilling. Did anyone else know the TSA had that power? Not I. I'm sure there is more to this story, but in the absence of Tyner making threats, I fail to see how the TSA can go after him for a civil penalty. What did he do? It seems to me that what the TSA is saying is "once you come in contact with us, we own you until we choose to let you leave." Why would be be subject to completing the security check if he was not going to board the plane? I'll tell you why: Because the TSA is the new Gestapo.

One more point: I love airplanes and used to love flying. I now despise it. The airlines treat their customers like garbage. Their fees are outrageous. A $200 ticket will cost one $400 by the time one gets down with the ticketing fees, bag fees, seat selection fees, and now...carry-on bag fees (Google it).
They used to provide a fairly comfortable seat. Now, we are jammed into cramped ones. A 2.5 hours flight from Philly to Orlando once included breakfast...as in eggs, toast, whatever. Now, if you're on a long flight, they might let you buy a sandwich for $8. Security is a huge pain. It's nerve-racking for some reason. The ticketing agents and gate personnel are rude. Delays are the norm. Bottom line? I hate it. Meanwhile, the airlines continue to cry poor and receive subsidies from the government. How is it possible that the industry has gone so wrong? You are right that this industry is going bonkers with these fares and rules for passengers.I think the government is intervening to much in this and the air industry should start to privatize by creating their own set of rules for passengers that are flying.This groping and pat downs are to much it reminds us that we are in prison by these gestures by these attendants they do with passengers.

/rant

Please read my remarks above thanks
post #48 of 304
TSA chief likely to face lawmakers' questions on pat-downs, body scans:

Well the pilots and airline attendants are now angling for an exemption:

Quote:
Sullenberger said transport authorities should trust pilots and flight attendants, because "we're trusted partners" who are already "thoroughly screened."

"We're among the most scrutinized professional groups in the country, even more than doctors," Sullenberger said on CNN's "American Morning." "It's really not an efficient use of our resources to put us through this," he added, suggesting that flight crews should be allowed to bypass much of the pre-boarding security screening that is required of passengers.


Quote:
Transportation Security Administration officials are permitted to use "professional discretion" in determining whether individuals should be subject to further screening, according to a TSA statement.


Quote:
Earlier on Tuesday, a public interest research group said it was suing the Department of Homeland Security in a freedom of information lawsuit intended to obtain medical records and studies that it says the agency has relied on for its use of body scanners.

The Electronic Privacy Information Center has also asked authorities to suspend the use of advanced imaging technology and called for public hearings into its use, center spokesman Marc Rotenberg said.
Consumer advocate and former presidential candidate Ralph Nader joined Rotenberg in the group's request for more information, calling the agency secretive and unresponsive.

Scanners "present hazards when they malfunction or when they function routinely," he said.
Nader said radiation emitted by the machines was potentially hazardous to passengers, but acknowledged that most passengers in 2009 had actually favored the new measures.

Transport authorities say advanced imaging technology meets national health and safety standards.
"These things ... have been examined six ways to Sunday," Napolitano said. "The [Food and Drug Administration], Johns Hopkins University, the U.S. Science and Standards Association have all measured the radiation involved in an AIT," she said. "It's almost immeasurable, it is so small."

In a report posted on the FDA website, scientists say full body X-ray scanners pose "very low health risks." The FDA evaluates radiation-emitting products as well as foods and medications.

But a representative for Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory said the group did not evaluate the advanced imaging machines for passenger safety. "That was not our role," spokeswoman Helen Worth said. "We measured the level of radiation, which was then evaluated by TSA."

CNN could not independently confirm whether scanners pose a risk to passenger health.

And, of course, the US government has never lied about things related to what it does with people's bodies (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)


Quote:
Pistole, addressing a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing on air cargo safety, veered off topic to plead with the American public to see airport security "as a partnership."

"Those security officers there are there to work with you, to ensure that everybody on that flight has been properly screened," he said. "Everybody wants that assurance, so just try to be patient, work with our folks. They are there to protect you and your loved ones, and let's make it a partnership."



Yes, a "partnership." And, as well know in a "partnership" between you and the government, the government is always the senior "partner."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #49 of 304
Apologies if this has already been posted:

Wednesday November 24th is "National Opt-Out Day".

http://www.optoutday.com/

I'm not traveling by air that day, but if I were I would participate.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #50 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Apologies if this has already been posted:

Wednesday November 24th is "National Opt-Out Day".

http://www.optoutday.com/

I'm not traveling by air that day, but if I were I would participate.

It will be interesting to see how that unfolds. I would opt out of the scanners no matter what. Right now I'm simply opting out of flying altogether. Going to the airport and flying have become a royal pain in the ass.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #51 of 304

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #52 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It will be interesting to see how that unfolds. I would opt out of the scanners no matter what. Right now I'm simply opting out of flying altogether. Going to the airport and flying have become a royal pain in the ass.

I only need to fly twice a year for work. Earlier this month I traveled to Orlando for a big conference my organization runs. Being an IT guy, my carry-on contained a tablet PC, 2 netbooks, 3 webcams, various and sundry cables and other such items. I had to put each computer in its own separate plastic tub, remove my shoes and put them in a separate tub, empty my pockets, take off my belt, etc.

In the Orlando airport on the day we flew back home, there was an elderly couple ahead of me at the security checkpoint. They were clearly struggling. I felt so sorry for them. The woman - she must have been 80 years old - set off the metal detector and was patted down in full-view of everyone. The man watched his wife being patted down and cringed, holding his hands up as if being ordered at gunpoint while walking through the metal detector, clearly afraid of what might happen if he set it off. He was visibly shaking, and not from old age.

As I stood there in line waiting my turn, watching this unfold, I wondered if this was the America our Founding Fathers had envisioned. I wondered if this was the America my grandparents and great-grandparents wanted their posterity to inherit.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #53 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I only need to fly twice a year for work. Earlier this month I traveled to Orlando for a big conference my organization runs. Being an IT guy, my carry-on contained a tablet PC, 2 netbooks, 3 webcams, various and sundry cables and other such items. I had to put each computer in its own separate plastic tub, remove my shoes and put them in a separate tub, empty my pockets, take off my belt, etc.

In the Orlando airport on the day we flew back home, there was an elderly couple ahead of me at the security checkpoint. They were clearly struggling. I felt so sorry for them. The woman - she must have been 80 years old - set off the metal detector and was patted down in full-view of everyone. The man watched his wife being patted down and cringed, holding his hands up as if being ordered at gunpoint while walking through the metal detector, clearly afraid of what might happen if he set it off. He was visibly shaking, and not from old age.

As I stood there in line waiting my turn, watching this unfold, I wondered if this was the America our Founding Fathers had envisioned. I wondered if this was the America my grandparents and great-grandparents wanted their posterity to inherit.

And yet quips like "well flying ain't a right" and "you can drive if you don't like it" and "well, this is life in a post-9/11 world" seem vacuous and unsatisfying.

One of the saddest quips is one that goes like "do you want the terrorists to win?!?!" Well, I think they already may have. If I was Osama bin Laden (or whoever) I'd be laughing my ass off.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #54 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Correct. However, it may interest you to know the TSA does not screen private (that is, non-scheduled service) aircraft, their pilots, their passengers, or their cargo. They can fly into thousands of airports no airline serves, some of them publicly owned, others privately owned. Their owners and operators are responsible for maintaining their own security in all the areas in which they operate, at all times. Pilots and passengers can fly armed if they're so inclined. They're free to discriminate any way they deem appropriate. They can refuse boarding to whomever they want for any reason, or no reason at all. It's the free market at work. If it didn't work, they'd be gone. There are many, many more such aircraft in service than all of the airlines have, combined.

So... when's the last time a NetJets plane was hijacked?

Thank you john,
Living in the north west makes plane rides a lot more like bus rides and getting on a plane is for many people part of the daily commute.
The TSA protects people who are relying on socialist security that the government pays for. Capitalists fly private planes.
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post #55 of 304
More "fun" with the TSA:

TSA pat-down pushback: Sacramento traveler outraged over 'hands on' treatment:

Quote:
A 43-year-old wife and mother who insists she's no prude was "stunned and shocked" by the pat-down she received by a security screener Tuesday at Sacramento International Airport.

"It was absolutely dehumanizing. I felt totally violated," said Detroit-bound traveler Wendy James Gigliotti by telephone during a layover in Denver.

Gigliotti said she had never had a problem with the routine "back of the hand" pat-downs she had experienced on previous trips, and was expecting something similar when she was selected at random for secondary screening by a female employee of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA).

Gigliotti was wearing a loose-fiiting skirt and she said the TSA screener put her hands up the skirt.

"She said 'spread your legs.' And then she took her full palms and started at my neck and ran all the way down my body, full palms, constant contact. And when she got down to my feet, she was in constant contact from my ankles all the way up to my groin, across my groin, and down the other leg. And she did that twice," Gigliotti said.

Gigliotti contacted News10 as soon as the plane landed because she believes TSA has crossed the line of acceptable behavior in the name of security.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #56 of 304
And more. The "trickle" seems to be turning into a flood.

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post #57 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

What happened to the free market..??? you guys are all socialists, WTF.

No one forces you to fly on commercial airlines or use public airports. This is America remember, free enterprise and all this crap...?
Get your own plane and fly it if you don't want to go through security or admit you are a socialist looser.
Flying with Commercial "public" airlines comes with body searches, get over it or find Bin Laden or become CEO of JP MOrgan or shut t f up. Socialist scum.

That's quite an odd post, there, worm. As for "get over it or don't fly," well that's an option, actually. I already hate flying because I'm sick of the expense, inconvenience and poor service. While I don't care about the body scanners, the invasive pat down pretty much puts me over the top. I won't fly unless necessary.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #58 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Yes, I know, but I recall from some distant memory that unwanted touching can be legally construed as battery. I am quite certain that physical injury is not a prerequisite for that definition. I'd need more than an amateur attorney to confirm that. Besides, it's the government, by definition it can't act with criminal intent

I don't know if the extent of the proposed molestation is explained to the victim before, as in "I am now going to feel your genitals, breasts, and all other bits considered hazardous to national security Ma'am." This would bear (bare?) on the interpretation of battery. If consent is granted, such an accusation is not likely to be justified.

If I were to say those exact words to a woman in a bar though, I'm pretty sure just saying that to her could be construed as assault.

This is nuts (oh there I go again).

Whatever it would be called, I don't think one would have much of a chance going after the agents for molestation. They'd claim that they were acting within the bounds of their duties and within the law (and they gave notice, as you point out). They might be right from that angle. However, as I said I do think there is a very good possibility it's a fourth amendment violation, which I believe would be civil remedy--not a criminal charge.
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post #59 of 304




Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #60 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Whatever it would be called, I don't think one would have much of a chance going after the agents for molestation. They'd claim that they were acting within the bounds of their duties and within the law (and they gave notice, as you point out). They might be right from that angle. However, as I said I do think there is a very good possibility it's a fourth amendment violation, which I believe would be civil remedy--not a criminal charge.

Perhaps. But this was interesting (and funny). Of course this was a few years ago.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #61 of 304
How Does The TSA Deal With Angry Travelers Online? By Censoring Its Blogs Comments

According to the latest update on this article they got caught and started approving comments again.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #62 of 304
TSA Gets Its Very Own Mock Twitter Account:

Quote:
Sample tweets include:

Airport Travel Tip: If you want to get through security faster, please remove your clothes while waiting in line.

Thanks to Rapiscan for these ballin x-ray machines. Sorry people have been giving them the nickname Rapescan. Haters gonna hate

Wouldnt it be cool if a pregnant lady got scanned and a few months later gave birth to Superman? One can dream

We touch you so the terrorists dont. #TSASlogans

If people survived Chernobyl, they can survive our backscatter scanners.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #63 of 304
You know I could have gone to work for the TSA...

...but they found out my IQ was higher than 80.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #64 of 304
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

--Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #65 of 304
Top ten ways the TSA is making the world a better place:

Quote:
The Transportation Security Administration at the US airports is getting their new full-body security scanners and new enhanced patdown process which is only slightly less intrusive than an autopsy, and no wonder that passengers, pilots, and flight attendants are revolting against the new rules. However, many of us tend to forget that TSA is actually making the world a better place. Here are the 10 ways how they are doing that.

1) TSA provides many great employment opportunities to registered and unregistered sex offenders, voyeurs and child molesters, thus keeping them away from your neighborhood.

2) Because many people are now avoiding the air travel altogether, the TSA actions reduce the pollution from the airplanes while increasing the number of passengers on the much more efficient public transportation such as trains or buses.

3) It will also generate more revenues for the shipping companies such as FedEx and UPS, due to expected increase in the number of packages sent from the Middle East.

4) TSA are buying so much radioactive materials for their scanners that Iran will never get enough uranium to make a nuclear bomb.

5) TSA has finally provided an indisputable proof that an alien spaceship really crashed in Roswell, NM in 1947 by incorporating in their procedures the most advanced and effective alien technology known to humans the anal probe.

6) Female travelers will be able to opt out of the annual breast exam in favor of the pat-down, while males will be able to forgo the testicular examinations. And with the TSA success record you can be rest assured that they will not find anything dangerous there. Also, you would get a free massage.

7) For the children, TSA would provide a viable alternative to Catholic church: children would be groped and molested by a man in a uniform just as they think they are on their way to heaven.

8) The radiation exposure from the scanners will greatly reduce your chances of dying from Alzheimers, heart attack, car accident or other unrelated cause of death, although may increase your chances of dying of embarrassment.

9) The infamous The Pedophiles Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lovers Code of Conduct pedophile how-to guide has been pulled from Amazon.com so that it could be converted into a TSA training guide named The Patdownophiles Guide to Glove and Security: A Child-Groper Code of Conduct.

10) Finally, the TSA security procedures are making the potential terrorists realize that passengers arent the real enemy. And on the other hand, the passengers are realizing that terrorists arent that scary either.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #66 of 304
These jokes are hilarious.

Anyone going to actually link this to our wonderful President yet or is accountability just one of those made up Republican memes?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #67 of 304
Sign the Petition: Investigate the TSA

WARNING: By signing this petition you could be selected for a "random" body scan then next time you fly.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #68 of 304

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #69 of 304

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #70 of 304
In all seriousness though...I wonder if any ObamaCare supporters see the dangers here. I mean more than the clear and humiliating infringement of people's rights, there's the incredibly smug attitude of the governmental "leaders" (Pistole and Napolitano) or silence (Obama) in this whole thing. And that's one thing, but their cooperative apologists in this whether in the media or the man on the street is quite disturbing.

I guess it's true: We get the government we deserve.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #71 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

These jokes are hilarious.

Anyone going to actually link this to our wonderful President yet or is accountability just one of those made up Republican memes?

No, of course not. If this were Bush, we'd be hearing all about "the buck stops here."
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #72 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In all seriousness though...I wonder if any ObamaCare supporters see the dangers here. I mean more than the clear and humiliating infringement of people's rights, there's the incredibly smug attitude of the governmental "leaders" (Pistole and Napolitano) or silence (Obama) in this whole thing. And that's one thing, but their cooperative apologists in this whether in the media or the man on the street is quite disturbing.

I guess it's true: We get the government we deserve.

Does the government own the airlines?
Does it own the insurance companies who have to pay if one of Bush's terrorist creations blows up a plane?
Would you be upset if a plane blows up with you in it because of lax security?
Why do you still fly these socialist planes?
Is your dick to small so you would get embarrassed if someone posts a picture on the internet captioned "smallest dick ever measured".
What do you want Obama to say?
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post #73 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Does the government own the airlines?
Does it own the insurance companies who have to pay if one of Bush's terrorist creations blows up a plane?
Would you be upset if a plane blows up with you in it because of lax security?
Why do you still fly these socialist planes?
Is your dick to small so you would get embarrassed if someone posts a picture on the internet captioned "smallest dick ever measured".
What do you want Obama to say?


Oh...my...God.


<raises hand> Ooooh! Call on me!

Answer: How about he says SOMETHING? In fact, ANYTHING. Say "I'm aware of many of the problems people have experienced and the concerns they have. I'll be looking into this immediately in order to protect the public, and preserve civil liberties."

IOKIYAD
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #74 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Does the government own the airlines?
Does it own the insurance companies who have to pay if one of Bush's terrorist creations blows up a plane?
Would you be upset if a plane blows up with you in it because of lax security?
Why do you still fly these socialist planes?
Is your dick to small so you would get embarrassed if someone posts a picture on the internet captioned "smallest dick ever measured".
What do you want Obama to say?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #75 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh...my...God.


<raises hand> Ooooh! Call on me!

Answer: How about he says SOMETHING? In fact, ANYTHING. Say "I'm aware of many of the problems people have experienced and the concerns they have. I'll be looking into this immediately in order to protect the public, and preserve civil liberties."

IOKIYAD

What civil liberties?
Flying planes is not a civil liberty. Any actions connected to flying are not part of human rights, civil rights, the constitution or anything else. Insurance carriers set the safety standards. What does this have to do with government Obama or Congress?

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FLY!!!!
Understand..?
YOU want bigger government!!!??? Really?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #76 of 304

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #77 of 304
Quote:

I hope he runs for President in 2012.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #78 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Flying planes is not a civil liberty.

Well sorta. But I see what you're getting at. There's one thing that people do have a right to: their property. Since we're going down that road, then I suggest the following:

1. The airlines immediately begin paying for everything related to air travel that are currently being paid for by any local, state or federal government. This includes airports, airport security, air traffic control, etc. It also includes immediately ending all airline specific subsidies and tax breaks.

2. The airlines immediately pay back (with interest) all money taken from the tax payers, to date, to the tax payers (not the government who is merely the middle man here) that has been used to buy or pay for airports, airport security, air traffic control, bailouts, etc.

In this way we will have a proper respect for everyone's rights. Airline customers will, of course, be forced to pay for all of the costs of air travel rather than being subsidized by non-travelers. That's fine. The tax payers will get their money back and be free to spend it any way they personally see fit. Airlines will be fully liable for any and all property damage and loss of life resulting from their negligence, etc. Airlines would be free to porno-scan and fondle their customers in the name of securing their property. Other airlines that chose to implement security measures that are actually effective and non-intrusive would be free to do that also.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #79 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

What civil liberties?
Flying planes is not a civil liberty. Any actions connected to flying are not part of human rights, civil rights, the constitution or anything else. Insurance carriers set the safety standards. What does this have to do with government Obama or Congress?

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FLY!!!!
Understand..?
YOU want bigger government!!!??? Really?

You're an idiot.

The insurance companies are NOT mandating these procedures.
The Airlines do NOT WANT these procedures. (And the airlines are not government functionaries.)
The passengers (traveling public) do NOT want these procedures.

The Federal Government is mandating all of these worthless "security" procedures. Nobody has a choice. The Airlines don't get to opt out, the insurance companies don't get to opt out, and the passengers don't get to opt out.
And anyone with half a brain knows these "security" measures are reactionary. They do nothing to protect us from the "terrorists" NEXT idea.

Nowhere have we seen a headline showing us how a "terrorist" was caught with the aid of any of these screening procedures. They were either caught after the fact (shoe guy, underwear guy), or were prevented from even reaching the security line by various background security measures (like the no-fly lists.) THESE "SECURITY" SCREENING MEASURES AT THE AIRPORT DO NOTHING TO ENHANCE SECURITY!!!

Does it make you feel better to see the pilots and flight attendants going through these same procedures?... They have the controls of the plane in their hands for god's sake!... They would have no NEED to try to take anything through security!
A toddler?... an octogenarian?... do you REALLY feel threatened by them?
Can anyone really THINK about these screening procedures and believe they do ANYthing to protect people?
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #80 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

What civil liberties?
Flying planes is not a civil liberty. Any actions connected to flying are not part of human rights, civil rights, the constitution or anything else. Insurance carriers set the safety standards. What does this have to do with government Obama or Congress?

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FLY!!!!
Understand..?
YOU want bigger government!!!??? Really?

Flying is not a civil right. You are correct. However, being searched invasively is not allowed without just cause. You are incorrect that anything that happens on an airplane or in an airport has nothing to do with constitutional rights.

Quote:
Insurance carriers set the safety standards. What does this have to do with government Obama or Congress?

You're kidding right? I mean...really...you're just trolling...right? I'm assuming so, because your statement is literally insane.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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