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Angry Birds maker apologizes for Android fragmentation issues - Page 6

post #201 of 276
11/21/10 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

which one of these JUNK Android phones can run Angry Birds?

Um, my Evo plays it just fine. I don't consider it junk any more than I consider my Ipod Touch junk. I guess I'm just a poor lost soul going to hell for not using an Iphone. I would like to give you the name of my employer so that you may call and tell them how worthless of a human being I am for having the temerity to purchase a non-Apple phone unit.
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post #202 of 276
11/21/10 at 5:46am
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Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post


I'm beginning to think I was singled out because you are not a fan of evil clowns?



You ain't got nothing on Captain Spaulding.
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post #203 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-G View Post

No. Android SHOULD be the number one mobile OS. That is because people buy it more than iOS. That is what determines what should be the number one mobile OS.

No and No. What determines the number one mobile OS is total units sold, yes. But I believe I used the word should in bold letter to indicate what should be the case, not might currently be the case.

Just because something sells the most doesn't mean it is the best. It simply could be the cheapest, etc. In the case of Android, sold on dozens of devices so that it floods the market. Currently one provider provides support for the iPhone (AT&T). Many people will turn away from the iPhone for that very reason. I dislike AT&T, but I vehemently hate Sprint and Tmobile (I have never used Verizon, but since they don't support our employers' discount plan we avoid them). So, we were prime candidates for the iPhone.

Back to my comment, I said should. Why? Because both Win 7 phone OS and iOS had more stringent requirements than Android does. All Win 7 phones must have the same front face buttons and the same camera button to support the OS, just like the iPhone has a specific design that is the same across the current models (I dont' know about the 1st and 2nd gen iPhones).

So, a good phone (and I have owned both the iPhone and Win 7 Phone) SHOULD outsell a mediocre phone such as the Android. Maybe it won't, but it should. Most folks aren't geeks or hackers. They want a phone that works simply with little problems and the Android is not that phone.
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post #204 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

...The only meaningful fragmentation is between the iPad and iPhone/touch. That was deliberate. Sometimes fragmentation is a good thing. Although Apple still gives the option to create Universal apps if the developer chooses to target both.

Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system. At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

When making a program that is highly dependent on the graphics performance of the device you need to decide on your minimum requirements. Just like if you wanted to make a high memory, high cpu game for the iPod Touch or iPhone, you wouldn't support 1st gen iPod's or iPhone's.

What the Angry Bird developers are saying is that they weren't able to pull off making a high end version of Angry Bird and having it run well on all versions of Android (and all devices within those versions).

Since Android is also being targeted to be used on "normal" handsets, not just smartphones it doesn't make sense to try to support them without taking in their specifications.

Here is the list of unsupported Android Devices:

* Droid Eris
* HTC Dream
* HTC Hero/T-Mobile G2 Touch
* HTC Magic/Sapphire/Mytouch 3G
* HTC Tattoo
* HTC Wildfire
* Huawei Ideos/U8150
* LG Ally/Aloha/VS740
* LG GW620/Eve
* Motorola Backflip/MB300
* Motorola Cliq/Dext
* Samsung Acclaim
* Samsung Moment/M900
* Samsung Spica/i5700
* Samsung Transform
* Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 mini
* T-Mobile G1

Those are the devices I would expect to be on the list. It's pretty easy to say you only support Android v2.0 and above. If they want full coverage of Android then they need to make a version that supports smaller screen resolutions and slower cpu's. Oh that is what they are doing. This is not news.
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post #205 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system. At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

When making a program that is highly dependent on the graphics performance of the device you need to decide on your minimum requirements. Just like if you wanted to make a high memory, high cpu game for the iPod Touch or iPhone, you wouldn't support 1st gen iPod's or iPhone's.

What the Angry Bird developers are saying is that they weren't able to pull off making a high end version of Angry Bird and having it run well on all versions of Android (and all devices within those versions).

Since Android is also being targeted to be used on "normal" handsets, not just smartphones it doesn't make sense to try to support them without taking in their specifications.

Here is the list of unsupported Android Devices:

* Droid Eris
* HTC Dream
* HTC Hero/T-Mobile G2 Touch
* HTC Magic/Sapphire/Mytouch 3G
* HTC Tattoo
* HTC Wildfire
* Huawei Ideos/U8150
* LG Ally/Aloha/VS740
* LG GW620/Eve
* Motorola Backflip/MB300
* Motorola Cliq/Dext
* Samsung Acclaim
* Samsung Moment/M900
* Samsung Spica/i5700
* Samsung Transform
* Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 mini
* T-Mobile G1

Those are the devices I would expect to be on the list. It's pretty easy to say you only support Android v2.0 and above. If they want full coverage of Android then they need to make a version that supports smaller screen resolutions and slower cpu's. Oh that is what they are doing. This is not news.

Choice, huh? Yes you can choose, but it's still heavily fragmented because of that same choice you are bragging here.
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post #206 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vital0gy View Post

Um, my Evo plays it just fine. I don't consider it junk any more than I consider my Ipod Touch junk. I guess I'm just a poor lost soul going to hell for not using an Iphone. I would like to give you the name of my employer so that you may call and tell them how worthless of a human being I am for having the temerity to purchase a non-Apple phone unit.

Are you in the wrong forum?
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post #207 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system. At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

When making a program that is highly dependent on the graphics performance of the device you need to decide on your minimum requirements. Just like if you wanted to make a high memory, high cpu game for the iPod Touch or iPhone, you wouldn't support 1st gen iPod's or iPhone's.

What the Angry Bird developers are saying is that they weren't able to pull off making a high end version of Angry Bird and having it run well on all versions of Android (and all devices within those versions).

Since Android is also being targeted to be used on "normal" handsets, not just smartphones it doesn't make sense to try to support them without taking in their specifications.

Here is the list of unsupported Android Devices:

* Droid Eris
* HTC Dream
* HTC Hero/T-Mobile G2 Touch
* HTC Magic/Sapphire/Mytouch 3G
* HTC Tattoo
* HTC Wildfire
* Huawei Ideos/U8150
* LG Ally/Aloha/VS740
* LG GW620/Eve
* Motorola Backflip/MB300
* Motorola Cliq/Dext
* Samsung Acclaim
* Samsung Moment/M900
* Samsung Spica/i5700
* Samsung Transform
* Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 mini
* T-Mobile G1

Those are the devices I would expect to be on the list. It's pretty easy to say you only support Android v2.0 and above. If they want full coverage of Android then they need to make a version that supports smaller screen resolutions and slower cpu's. Oh that is what they are doing. This is not news.

What you are missing, of course, is that all of these devices were released in the LAST YEAR. And people who own those devices probably thought they were getting the top of the line Android phone, same as their neighbour, as an iPhone equivalent. meanwhile, just popping over to itunes/app/angrybirds I see the minimum requirements on the iPhone are

iOS 3.0, and compatible with
iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

So that will work on a 1st Gen. Thats 3.5 years old.

So it runs on all iPhones from 2007, and some Androids from 2010. Do the people with Android phones feel that they have been sold a pup?

This isnt going to go away either - the new version of Android ( 3.0) needs 1Ghz processor, and recommends 512MB minimum. Most cheap and nasty android manufacturers will not even bother, carriers wont carry updates, 1.6 will be on a lot of machines sold into cheaper markets, the google market is not even in most countries.

Developers, back to iOS.

( Was it worth while for Roxio to put up with this cr*p compared to the revenue they get from iOS? how many more man hours do they have to put in to make the game work on these extra machines?)

Answer: no.
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post #208 of 276
11/21/10 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No. Most of what asdasd said is nonsense. You are free to dislike anything Apple here; however if you dislike Apple products and want to post about it, you have to make well-reasoned arguments backed up with evidence, otherwise it degenerates into nothing but trolling.

I do find the idea of being an "Apple fan" and simply unquestionably liking anything they come up with very odd.

let's review some dreadful/mediocre Apple products, shall we?

Hockey-puck mouse. Hang on. Any mouse with just one button for that matter.
iPod HiFi
The "fatty" iPod nano
iPod Shuffle with no buttons
AppleTV version 1
MacBook Air version 1

As a moderator, how you moderate is up to you. I dislike one mouse buttons, the fat iPod Nano, the Apple TV was rubbish, and the AIR was pretty but functionally useless.

However these are equivalent to the debates on who gets picked for the Liverpool squad in a Liverpool forum, or how the management is doing.

If someone is on the AppleInsider/iPhone forum getting defensive about a clear flaw in the Android platform, and keeps mentioning *my* Android phone, then I dont see the point. Its up to you, were I moderating I would suggest these guys find other fora. Apple hating is common.
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post #209 of 276
11/21/10 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What you are missing, of course, is that all of these devices were released in the LAST YEAR. And people who own those devices probably thought they were getting the top of the line Android phone, same as their neighbour, as an iPhone equivalent. meanwhile, just popping over to itunes/app/angrybirds I see the minimum requirements on the iPhone are

iOS 3.0, and compatible with
iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

So that will work on a 1st Gen. Thats 3.5 years old.

So it runs on all iPhones from 2007, and some Androids from 2010. Do the people with Android phones feel that they have been sold a pup?

So you are saying it's a good thing to have a static market with little choice. In actuality app/game developers should see what the future will be with Apple. Even though Apple claims to not have framentation, their history is anything but that. As they introduce more models the possibilities will grow for Apple also (I won't get into motorola vs powerpc vs intel or nvidia vs ati vs intel on the desktop).

It doesn't really matter if a low end phone with an old version of Android is released tomorrow. It's still a low end phone with an old version of Android. You need to know what you are buying.

Smart developers will have their games/apps adjust themselves to the system specs they are running on, and understand when they are running on a system that can't support what they want to do. The bottom line is that the 1st Gen iPod and iPhone don't have the same specs as the later ones and can't deliver the same experience. For example, the game designer at 2XL gave me this advice when I was discussing with him his upcoming release of 2XL Supercross in April 2009:

"The iPod Touch 2.0 is the way to go. It's faster than any of the phones." and I'll add what was not said, the iPod Touch 1.0.

That was only slightly over a year ago and how many different models are there since then and what can't the iPod Touch 2.0 do in IOS 4?

I'm glad I waited and bought the iPod Touch 3.0 (but should I have waited for the 4g iPod Touch and it's camera [which is different then the iPhone 4g] and the higher resolution, so many options!!).
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post #210 of 276
11/21/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

So you are saying it's a good thing to have a static market with little choice. In actuality app/game developers should see what the future will be with Apple. Even though Apple claims to not have framentation, their history is anything but that. As they introduce more models the possibilities will grow for Apple also (I won't get into motorola vs powerpc vs intel or nvidia vs ati vs intel on the desktop).

this response is a strawman. Clearly what I said was the all iPhone can handle Angry Birds on all models, and Android phones released in this year, cannot. I didn't mention choice.

Quote:
It doesn't really matter if a low end phone with an old version of Android is released tomorrow. It's still a low end phone with an old version of Android. You need to know what you are buying.

The people who cant run Angry Birds seem to think that they should be able to run this relatively simple game. It is not RAGE now, is it. Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.

Quote:
Smart developers will have their games/apps adjust themselves to the system specs they are running on, and understand when they are running on a system that can't support what they want to do. The bottom line is that the 1st Gen iPod and iPhone don't have the same specs as the later ones and can't deliver the same experience. For example, the game designer at 2XL gave me this advice when I was discussing with him his upcoming release of 2XL Supercross in April 2009:

"The iPod Touch 2.0 is the way to go. It's faster than any of the phones." and I'll add what was not said, the iPod Touch 1.0.

That was only slightly over a year ago and how many different models are there since then and what can't the iPod Touch 2.0 do in IOS 4?

I'm glad I waited and bought the iPod Touch 3.0 (but should I have waited for the 4g iPod Touch and it's camera [which is different then the iPhone 4g] and the higher resolution, so many options!!).

Ye, things move on. But let me repeat - the Android phones were bought this year. And if Angry Birds runs on iOS 3.0 it runs across the suite, no questions asked. Developers can target iOS 3.0, and even the device and then - thats it. Phones from 2007.

But Android devices bought and manufactured this year cant run what is a fairly simple game - in terms of it's processing power. Certainly John Carmack is moving ahead with amazing stuff for the iPhone. Meanwhile recently released Android phones cant handle a game where a few sprites moving in 2D.

Is this an issue for Roxio, of course it is. They now have to not just test all these devices, unknown to anybody a year ago, and future releases from manufacturers as yet unknown, wasting lots of developer time on a platform where profitability is yet to be determined. ( So undetermined they didnt want bother to do a paid version). Will they give up - no, probably not - however if this is an issue for them what about the iPhone app which is 10th on the game store, selling a few tens of thousands, is it worth their while porting?
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post #211 of 276
11/21/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What you are missing, of course, is that all of these devices were released in the LAST YEAR. And people who own those devices probably thought they were getting the top of the line Android phone, same as their neighbour, as an iPhone equivalent. meanwhile, just popping over to itunes/app/angrybirds I see the minimum requirements on the iPhone are

iOS 3.0, and compatible with
iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

So that will work on a 1st Gen. Thats 3.5 years old.

So it runs on all iPhones from 2007, and some Androids from 2010. Do the people with Android phones feel that they have been sold a pup?

This isnt going to go away either - the new version of Android ( 3.0) needs 1Ghz processor, and recommends 512MB minimum. Most cheap and nasty android manufacturers will not even bother, carriers wont carry updates, 1.6 will be on a lot of machines sold into cheaper markets, the google market is not even in most countries.

Developers, back to iOS.

( Was it worth while for Roxio to put up with this cr*p compared to the revenue they get from iOS? how many more man hours do they have to put in to make the game work on these extra machines?)

Answer: no.

What you fail to mention about iOS running on first gen iPhones is that there are specific features that only the latest and greatest can run, much like we see here with Android. Heck, the iPhone 3GS is capable of running iMovie, so why doesn't Apple let people run that without having to jailbreak their phone? At least Android developers are inhibited only by hardware. Apple puts artificial limitations in place.

What about any of this makes no sense to you? Old phones of yesterday, and bottom of the line phones of today will not run processor intense applications.

My friend Pam has a samsung moment, and I don't ever hear her bitch about things like this. She loves her phone, in fact, and understands some things my fascinate does simply is a result of beefier hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp...
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post #212 of 276
11/21/10 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

But Android devices bought and manufactured this year cant run what is a fairly simple game - in terms of it's processing power.

You're pulling this RIGHT out of your ass! There's actually a fair amount of processing going on for the physics. The iPhone has always been very capable in this regard, but it's also been at a price that doesn't compare to the entry level Android phones you describe!
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post #213 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.

"Duhhh. This one says it runs 1.6, this one says it runs 2.2. This one is free with 2 year contract, this one is $250. DUHH WHICH ONE ID BETTER?"

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post #214 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You're pulling this RIGHT out of your ass! There's actually a fair amount of processing going on for the physics. The iPhone has always been very capable in this regard, but it's also been at a price that doesn't compare to the entry level Android phones you describe!

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.
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post #215 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

"Duhhh. This one says it runs 1.6, this one says it runs 2.2. This one is free with 2 year contract, this one is $250. DUHH WHICH ONE ID BETTER?"



Look at all those LOLS!

Nevertheless the people who bought Android phones mostly dont know 1.6 from 2.2. All they know is they bought this year.

The vast uptake of Andoird phones is from people who assume that the latest phone is the greatest phone. All phones are subsidised so that hides the price ( it depends on your contract - in the UK you can get the iPhone 4 for free on a very long pricy contract).

So you know 1.6 from 2.2. Most people dont. Which is why they are complaining on the Rovio forum.
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post #216 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What you fail to mention about iOS running on first gen iPhones is that there are specific features that only the latest and greatest can run, much like we see here with Android. Heck, the iPhone 3GS is capable of running iMovie, so why doesn't Apple let people run that without having to jailbreak their phone? At least Android developers are inhibited only by hardware. Apple puts artificial limitations in place.

What about any of this makes no sense to you? Old phones of yesterday, and bottom of the line phones of today will not run processor intense applications.

My friend Pam has a samsung moment, and I don't ever hear her bitch about things like this. She loves her phone, in fact, and understands some things my fascinate does simply is a result of beefier hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp...

Good for Pam. We are talking about people on the Rovio forums who are angry that Angry Birds doesnt run, and the costs to Rovio of making it run. Is it worth the extra development?
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post #217 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.

Did you ever write software capable of handling the physics in Angry Birds?

I think the issue in the lower end Android device is a combination of drawing the larger graphics and then scaling it to fit the smaller screen, the slower cpu doing that, and the fact that the user is free to customize their desktop and run widgets that consume some of that cpu.

I'm sure if Rovio provided appropriately sized graphics for the device it would play just fine. If not then I would think it is user customizations that are interfering with it.
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post #218 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Did you ever write software capable of handling the physics in Angry Birds?

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.
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post #219 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Good for Pam. We are talking about people on the Rovio forums who are angry that Angry Birds doesnt run, and the costs to Rovio of making it run. Is it worth the extra development?

It sounds to me, as a developer, that Rovio did a quick port and did not do due diligence during the port to gracefully degrade their application to the capabilities of the device it is running on. A few minutes of research would have let them know they need to target a certain level of devices. They could have easily had required Android 2.0 or above to run and older devices wouldn't even see it in the marketplace.

They also could have delayed the release until they had tested on all Android devices if that is what they want to support.

It just isn't a big deal. They did it the wrong way. They'll work it out.

It plays just fine on my Droid X, and I like it much better then on my iPod Touch. That 4.3" screen makes all the difference for me.
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post #220 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.

You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task. I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.
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post #221 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.

I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..

The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.
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post #222 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task.

huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.

Quote:
I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.

[/quote]

What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.

The basic point is simple: this is an issue to developers and consumers. Lets not paper over that.

How big is the issue - it depends. If Rovio are blown away by their "sales" on Android - or the ad revenue - it wont matter so much. If the iOS is making more money, it will matter as to what, and when they release stuff in future, and for what platform. Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone. In a cost benefit analysis it would have to deliver more profits. The jury is out.
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post #223 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..

The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.

Neither of us knows their specific engine ( it is proprietary as far as I know). There are open source physics engines - like Box2d - which do this kind of thing. What we do know is that it runs on the iPhone 1st gen. I know this is a bit repetitive, but it cant really be that hard to do if the original iPhone handles it.

You may be onto something with the size of the images - thats often the slowdown in games games.
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post #224 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.

That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

...Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone.

I believe the opposite is true.
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post #225 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.


A netbook is evidently a different device from a desktop. You are, however, acknowledging that the difference between the original iPhone and a low level Android device may be quite large.

Quote:
I believe the opposite is true.

You know what you "believe" doesn't matter. In this case Rovio have to re-write their code to run on any number of different platforms and test them all, or they have angry customers. Thats the reality of a mass produced game on the Android market.
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post #226 of 276
11/21/10 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system.

It matters quite a bit if you want to be reasonably sure that the first inclination that your app fails isn't from a bad review on the market saying this app sucks as it doesn't work on X. This means a lot more exemplar phones and testing than with iOS...generally because of blur and sense.

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At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

The UI is moderately geared to be somewhat resolution agnostic if you provide all the specified assets and do all the best practices. You still need to test at all resolutions to insure that your layout doesn't suddenly look stupid because of resolution changes.

The bottom line is that Android development has been more annoying than iOS. The primary saving grace is that it is less annoying than traditional Java ME. That isn't setting the bar very high. Plus the market needs work...it feels like the work of a talented summer intern.
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post #227 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.



Those sorts of customers should just get an iPhone. That way, they won't be confused.
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post #228 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:06am
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Nevertheless the people who bought Android phones mostly dont know 1.6 from 2.2. All they know is they bought this year.


That is because they are so ignorant. If they just bought an iPhone, they wouldn't need to know nothing.
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post #229 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:21am
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.

Runs smooth on my second generation iPod touch.
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post #230 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:22am
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.

The Android way: Our problems become your problems.

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The Android way: Our problems become your problems.

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post #231 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:26am
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Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have choice.

+1 i say.
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post #232 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:29am
Angry birds shouldn't be on those unsupported devices. There is no reason to go back and develop for those outdated devices. If it can't play the game, too bad. Get something that will. If you can't afford to, too bad. You don't get to play.
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post #233 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
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post #234 of 276
11/21/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

Again with this?
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post #235 of 276
11/21/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

Funny I had bought iPod touch just to test the water if iOS would be useful to me and you know what? It exceeded my expectation. And considering I'm here for some time my expectation should be pretty high. I don't understand what you meant by "customizing desktop". Do you mean customizing homescreen?

The Android way: Our problems become your problems.

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The Android way: Our problems become your problems.

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post #236 of 276
11/21/10 at 10:32am
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.

Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.

I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.

This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
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post #237 of 276
11/21/10 at 10:41am
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Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"

And yet it exist. Same thing is happening with Android phones. Just too many hardware variations. Apple is already dealing with quite few variations, so compared Android is lost in those variations.
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post #238 of 276
11/21/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.

I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.

This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"

Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.


So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.

I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.

And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.

All of this is fan-boy excuses.

What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.

Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #239 of 276
11/21/10 at 11:02am
WTF?? ROFL!

The Best Android Fragmentation Example: No Google Search App On Android 2.1


http://searchengineland.com/android-...-android-56582

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Very quickly, I heard back from Bing. No conspiracy, no censorship. As I said, the Samsung Fascinate runs Android 2.1; the Droid 2 runs Android 2.2. Google doesnt offer the Google Search app for Android 2.1.

That seemed weird. After all, I know there are Android 2.1 devices that do have a Google Search app on them. So, my next stop was to ask Google about this. Nope, there is no Google Search application for 2.1 devices, the company confirmed. This is because most 2.1 devices already have Google Search baked into the original operating system on the phone, through the search box widget.






ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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post #240 of 276
11/21/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.


So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.

I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.

And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.

All of this is fan-boy excuses.

What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.

Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.

People thinking that testing against 200 phones and testing against 3 phones, 3 iPod touches nad an iPad is the same thing and OK ARE MORE THAN CRAZY. So yes NO FRAGMENTATION, app market is a joy, SDK is kick-ass.
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