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Angry Birds maker apologizes for Android fragmentation issues - Page 6

post #201 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No. Most of what asdasd said is nonsense. You are free to dislike anything Apple here; however if you dislike Apple products and want to post about it, you have to make well-reasoned arguments backed up with evidence, otherwise it degenerates into nothing but trolling.

I do find the idea of being an "Apple fan" and simply unquestionably liking anything they come up with very odd.

let's review some dreadful/mediocre Apple products, shall we?

Hockey-puck mouse. Hang on. Any mouse with just one button for that matter.
iPod HiFi
The "fatty" iPod nano
iPod Shuffle with no buttons
AppleTV version 1
MacBook Air version 1

As a moderator, how you moderate is up to you. I dislike one mouse buttons, the fat iPod Nano, the Apple TV was rubbish, and the AIR was pretty but functionally useless.

However these are equivalent to the debates on who gets picked for the Liverpool squad in a Liverpool forum, or how the management is doing.

If someone is on the AppleInsider/iPhone forum getting defensive about a clear flaw in the Android platform, and keeps mentioning *my* Android phone, then I dont see the point. Its up to you, were I moderating I would suggest these guys find other fora. Apple hating is common.
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post #202 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What you are missing, of course, is that all of these devices were released in the LAST YEAR. And people who own those devices probably thought they were getting the top of the line Android phone, same as their neighbour, as an iPhone equivalent. meanwhile, just popping over to itunes/app/angrybirds I see the minimum requirements on the iPhone are

iOS 3.0, and compatible with
iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

So that will work on a 1st Gen. Thats 3.5 years old.

So it runs on all iPhones from 2007, and some Androids from 2010. Do the people with Android phones feel that they have been sold a pup?

So you are saying it's a good thing to have a static market with little choice. In actuality app/game developers should see what the future will be with Apple. Even though Apple claims to not have framentation, their history is anything but that. As they introduce more models the possibilities will grow for Apple also (I won't get into motorola vs powerpc vs intel or nvidia vs ati vs intel on the desktop).

It doesn't really matter if a low end phone with an old version of Android is released tomorrow. It's still a low end phone with an old version of Android. You need to know what you are buying.

Smart developers will have their games/apps adjust themselves to the system specs they are running on, and understand when they are running on a system that can't support what they want to do. The bottom line is that the 1st Gen iPod and iPhone don't have the same specs as the later ones and can't deliver the same experience. For example, the game designer at 2XL gave me this advice when I was discussing with him his upcoming release of 2XL Supercross in April 2009:

"The iPod Touch 2.0 is the way to go. It's faster than any of the phones." and I'll add what was not said, the iPod Touch 1.0.

That was only slightly over a year ago and how many different models are there since then and what can't the iPod Touch 2.0 do in IOS 4?

I'm glad I waited and bought the iPod Touch 3.0 (but should I have waited for the 4g iPod Touch and it's camera [which is different then the iPhone 4g] and the higher resolution, so many options!!).
post #203 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

So you are saying it's a good thing to have a static market with little choice. In actuality app/game developers should see what the future will be with Apple. Even though Apple claims to not have framentation, their history is anything but that. As they introduce more models the possibilities will grow for Apple also (I won't get into motorola vs powerpc vs intel or nvidia vs ati vs intel on the desktop).

this response is a strawman. Clearly what I said was the all iPhone can handle Angry Birds on all models, and Android phones released in this year, cannot. I didn't mention choice.

Quote:
It doesn't really matter if a low end phone with an old version of Android is released tomorrow. It's still a low end phone with an old version of Android. You need to know what you are buying.

The people who cant run Angry Birds seem to think that they should be able to run this relatively simple game. It is not RAGE now, is it. Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.

Quote:
Smart developers will have their games/apps adjust themselves to the system specs they are running on, and understand when they are running on a system that can't support what they want to do. The bottom line is that the 1st Gen iPod and iPhone don't have the same specs as the later ones and can't deliver the same experience. For example, the game designer at 2XL gave me this advice when I was discussing with him his upcoming release of 2XL Supercross in April 2009:

"The iPod Touch 2.0 is the way to go. It's faster than any of the phones." and I'll add what was not said, the iPod Touch 1.0.

That was only slightly over a year ago and how many different models are there since then and what can't the iPod Touch 2.0 do in IOS 4?

I'm glad I waited and bought the iPod Touch 3.0 (but should I have waited for the 4g iPod Touch and it's camera [which is different then the iPhone 4g] and the higher resolution, so many options!!).

Ye, things move on. But let me repeat - the Android phones were bought this year. And if Angry Birds runs on iOS 3.0 it runs across the suite, no questions asked. Developers can target iOS 3.0, and even the device and then - thats it. Phones from 2007.

But Android devices bought and manufactured this year cant run what is a fairly simple game - in terms of it's processing power. Certainly John Carmack is moving ahead with amazing stuff for the iPhone. Meanwhile recently released Android phones cant handle a game where a few sprites moving in 2D.

Is this an issue for Roxio, of course it is. They now have to not just test all these devices, unknown to anybody a year ago, and future releases from manufacturers as yet unknown, wasting lots of developer time on a platform where profitability is yet to be determined. ( So undetermined they didnt want bother to do a paid version). Will they give up - no, probably not - however if this is an issue for them what about the iPhone app which is 10th on the game store, selling a few tens of thousands, is it worth their while porting?
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post #204 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What you are missing, of course, is that all of these devices were released in the LAST YEAR. And people who own those devices probably thought they were getting the top of the line Android phone, same as their neighbour, as an iPhone equivalent. meanwhile, just popping over to itunes/app/angrybirds I see the minimum requirements on the iPhone are

iOS 3.0, and compatible with
iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

So that will work on a 1st Gen. Thats 3.5 years old.

So it runs on all iPhones from 2007, and some Androids from 2010. Do the people with Android phones feel that they have been sold a pup?

This isnt going to go away either - the new version of Android ( 3.0) needs 1Ghz processor, and recommends 512MB minimum. Most cheap and nasty android manufacturers will not even bother, carriers wont carry updates, 1.6 will be on a lot of machines sold into cheaper markets, the google market is not even in most countries.

Developers, back to iOS.

( Was it worth while for Roxio to put up with this cr*p compared to the revenue they get from iOS? how many more man hours do they have to put in to make the game work on these extra machines?)

Answer: no.

What you fail to mention about iOS running on first gen iPhones is that there are specific features that only the latest and greatest can run, much like we see here with Android. Heck, the iPhone 3GS is capable of running iMovie, so why doesn't Apple let people run that without having to jailbreak their phone? At least Android developers are inhibited only by hardware. Apple puts artificial limitations in place.

What about any of this makes no sense to you? Old phones of yesterday, and bottom of the line phones of today will not run processor intense applications.

My friend Pam has a samsung moment, and I don't ever hear her bitch about things like this. She loves her phone, in fact, and understands some things my fascinate does simply is a result of beefier hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp...
post #205 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

But Android devices bought and manufactured this year cant run what is a fairly simple game - in terms of it's processing power.

You're pulling this RIGHT out of your ass! There's actually a fair amount of processing going on for the physics. The iPhone has always been very capable in this regard, but it's also been at a price that doesn't compare to the entry level Android phones you describe!
post #206 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.

"Duhhh. This one says it runs 1.6, this one says it runs 2.2. This one is free with 2 year contract, this one is $250. DUHH WHICH ONE ID BETTER?"

post #207 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You're pulling this RIGHT out of your ass! There's actually a fair amount of processing going on for the physics. The iPhone has always been very capable in this regard, but it's also been at a price that doesn't compare to the entry level Android phones you describe!

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.
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post #208 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

"Duhhh. This one says it runs 1.6, this one says it runs 2.2. This one is free with 2 year contract, this one is $250. DUHH WHICH ONE ID BETTER?"



Look at all those LOLS!

Nevertheless the people who bought Android phones mostly dont know 1.6 from 2.2. All they know is they bought this year.

The vast uptake of Andoird phones is from people who assume that the latest phone is the greatest phone. All phones are subsidised so that hides the price ( it depends on your contract - in the UK you can get the iPhone 4 for free on a very long pricy contract).

So you know 1.6 from 2.2. Most people dont. Which is why they are complaining on the Rovio forum.
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post #209 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What you fail to mention about iOS running on first gen iPhones is that there are specific features that only the latest and greatest can run, much like we see here with Android. Heck, the iPhone 3GS is capable of running iMovie, so why doesn't Apple let people run that without having to jailbreak their phone? At least Android developers are inhibited only by hardware. Apple puts artificial limitations in place.

What about any of this makes no sense to you? Old phones of yesterday, and bottom of the line phones of today will not run processor intense applications.

My friend Pam has a samsung moment, and I don't ever hear her bitch about things like this. She loves her phone, in fact, and understands some things my fascinate does simply is a result of beefier hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp...

Good for Pam. We are talking about people on the Rovio forums who are angry that Angry Birds doesnt run, and the costs to Rovio of making it run. Is it worth the extra development?
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post #210 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.

Did you ever write software capable of handling the physics in Angry Birds?

I think the issue in the lower end Android device is a combination of drawing the larger graphics and then scaling it to fit the smaller screen, the slower cpu doing that, and the fact that the user is free to customize their desktop and run widgets that consume some of that cpu.

I'm sure if Rovio provided appropriately sized graphics for the device it would play just fine. If not then I would think it is user customizations that are interfering with it.
post #211 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Did you ever write software capable of handling the physics in Angry Birds?

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.
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post #212 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Good for Pam. We are talking about people on the Rovio forums who are angry that Angry Birds doesnt run, and the costs to Rovio of making it run. Is it worth the extra development?

It sounds to me, as a developer, that Rovio did a quick port and did not do due diligence during the port to gracefully degrade their application to the capabilities of the device it is running on. A few minutes of research would have let them know they need to target a certain level of devices. They could have easily had required Android 2.0 or above to run and older devices wouldn't even see it in the marketplace.

They also could have delayed the release until they had tested on all Android devices if that is what they want to support.

It just isn't a big deal. They did it the wrong way. They'll work it out.

It plays just fine on my Droid X, and I like it much better then on my iPod Touch. That 4.3" screen makes all the difference for me.
post #213 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.

You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task. I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.
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post #214 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yes. Seriously what do you think the problem is. It is basically a platform game, the "physics" of a slingshot hitting something 2D and the thing being hit having a defined weight and centre of gravity and reacting to that is not a big deal in terms of computational power. It runs on the 1st gen iPhone.

I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..

The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.
post #215 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task.

huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.

Quote:
I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.

[/quote]

What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.

The basic point is simple: this is an issue to developers and consumers. Lets not paper over that.

How big is the issue - it depends. If Rovio are blown away by their "sales" on Android - or the ad revenue - it wont matter so much. If the iOS is making more money, it will matter as to what, and when they release stuff in future, and for what platform. Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone. In a cost benefit analysis it would have to deliver more profits. The jury is out.
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post #216 of 269
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Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..

The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.

Neither of us knows their specific engine ( it is proprietary as far as I know). There are open source physics engines - like Box2d - which do this kind of thing. What we do know is that it runs on the iPhone 1st gen. I know this is a bit repetitive, but it cant really be that hard to do if the original iPhone handles it.

You may be onto something with the size of the images - thats often the slowdown in games games.
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post #217 of 269
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.

That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

...Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone.

I believe the opposite is true.
post #218 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.


A netbook is evidently a different device from a desktop. You are, however, acknowledging that the difference between the original iPhone and a low level Android device may be quite large.

Quote:
I believe the opposite is true.

You know what you "believe" doesn't matter. In this case Rovio have to re-write their code to run on any number of different platforms and test them all, or they have angry customers. Thats the reality of a mass produced game on the Android market.
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post #219 of 269
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Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system.

It matters quite a bit if you want to be reasonably sure that the first inclination that your app fails isn't from a bad review on the market saying this app sucks as it doesn't work on X. This means a lot more exemplar phones and testing than with iOS...generally because of blur and sense.

Quote:
At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

The UI is moderately geared to be somewhat resolution agnostic if you provide all the specified assets and do all the best practices. You still need to test at all resolutions to insure that your layout doesn't suddenly look stupid because of resolution changes.

The bottom line is that Android development has been more annoying than iOS. The primary saving grace is that it is less annoying than traditional Java ME. That isn't setting the bar very high. Plus the market needs work...it feels like the work of a talented summer intern.
post #220 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.



Those sorts of customers should just get an iPhone. That way, they won't be confused.
post #221 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Nevertheless the people who bought Android phones mostly dont know 1.6 from 2.2. All they know is they bought this year.


That is because they are so ignorant. If they just bought an iPhone, they wouldn't need to know nothing.
post #222 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.

Runs smooth on my second generation iPod touch.

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post #223 of 269
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.
post #224 of 269
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Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have choice.

+1 i say.

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post #225 of 269
Angry birds shouldn't be on those unsupported devices. There is no reason to go back and develop for those outdated devices. If it can't play the game, too bad. Get something that will. If you can't afford to, too bad. You don't get to play.
post #226 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
post #227 of 269
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Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

Again with this?

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post #228 of 269
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Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

Funny I had bought iPod touch just to test the water if iOS would be useful to me and you know what? It exceeded my expectation. And considering I'm here for some time my expectation should be pretty high. I don't understand what you meant by "customizing desktop". Do you mean customizing homescreen?
post #229 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.

Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.

I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.

This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
post #230 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"

And yet it exist. Same thing is happening with Android phones. Just too many hardware variations. Apple is already dealing with quite few variations, so compared Android is lost in those variations.

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post #231 of 269
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Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.

I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.

This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"

Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.


So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.

I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.

And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.

All of this is fan-boy excuses.

What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.

Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
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post #232 of 269
WTF?? ROFL!

The Best Android Fragmentation Example: No Google Search App On Android 2.1


http://searchengineland.com/android-...-android-56582

Quote:
Very quickly, I heard back from Bing. No conspiracy, no censorship. As I said, the Samsung Fascinate runs Android 2.1; the Droid 2 runs Android 2.2. Google doesnt offer the Google Search app for Android 2.1.

That seemed weird. After all, I know there are Android 2.1 devices that do have a Google Search app on them. So, my next stop was to ask Google about this. Nope, there is no Google Search application for 2.1 devices, the company confirmed. This is because most 2.1 devices already have Google Search baked into the original operating system on the phone, through the search box widget.




post #233 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.


So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.

I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.

And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.

All of this is fan-boy excuses.

What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.

Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.

People thinking that testing against 200 phones and testing against 3 phones, 3 iPod touches nad an iPad is the same thing and OK ARE MORE THAN CRAZY. So yes NO FRAGMENTATION, app market is a joy, SDK is kick-ass.

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post #234 of 269
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Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Completely overblown statements made by people who obviously favor the iPhone.

There isn't even a paid version of the game for Android, and the only thing that affects performance is the stupid ads! Literally, in airplane mode, the game is as smooth as silk. Turn 3g on, get ads, and watch the game's framerates drop immensely.


he's talking about the launchers and phone apps, all of which can easily be replaced, and don't come anywhere CLOSE to the impact he describes.

Articles like this are here to only reassure people made the "correct" decision in going with an iPhone. There is no CORRECT decision! It's all about what you like!


"easily replaced" to what... Seriously the market is fragmented, there are many Android phones that can not play Angry birds, most likely even most of them in use today. How is that not a fragmented mess?
post #235 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Funny I had bought iPod touch just to test the water if iOS would be useful to me and you know what? It exceeded my expectation. And considering I'm here for some time my expectation should be pretty high. I don't understand what you meant by "customizing desktop". Do you mean customizing homescreen?

I have no idea. It's often quoted as an example of how "evil" Apple is because Steve Jobs is a control freak. I don't buy the argument. A friend of mine recently told me he wasn't interested in iPhone because Apple was trying to "control everything" and that he judged that to be "wrong." I laughed and said, but you just told me how much you love the Xbox 360. Xbox is even more closed, even more of a walled garden than the iPhone. "What do you mean?" he asked. I explained that the game consoles have curated software (Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo must approve), and unlike some competing consoles, the Xbox 360 uses completely proprietary connectors (the PS3 uses regular USB and Bluetooth), and it is the only console that cannot access the Internet. It can only access a walled garden called Xbox Live. So you can't play online games with people using a PlayStation. There are no web browsers, no Flash, no keyboard or mouse, and you can't simply jailbreak an Xbox without modding it. Microsoft controls the user experience on Xbox 360; it's a locked-down appliance. Every game is digitally signed by Microsoft, and you can't do anything on it that Microsoft doesn't allow. At least on the iPhone, you can get to the Web, run web applications, even jailbreak your iPhone. There's a very active community out there writing all kinds of apps for jailbroken iPhones.

I pointed out to my friend the hypocrisy of his double standard: he loves Xbox 360 for exactly the same reason he doesn't like iPhone. He had no justification for it, so we dropped the subject. But no, I don't think he thought his position through.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #236 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

I dunno. I bought an Android device and I'd like to run any number of high profile, high quality apps that are available for iOS but not for Android. Because iOS makes more money for developers and has a customer base that's interest in trying out new apps doesn't mind paying for quality.

What choices do I have now? I would say that being willing to trade a customizable desktop for a world of real functionality perfectly sums up the typical Android customer.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #237 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?

Jailbreaking your iOS device is simple.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #238 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Jailbreaking your iOS device is simple.

Conversely, there's nothing you can do for your Android phone to make it run apps that aren't available on the platform. What was that about choice, again?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #239 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Conversely, there's nothing you can do for your Android phone to make it run apps that aren't available on the platform. What was that about choice, again?

This last month I have paid about $40 to Cydia-based developers for apps for my JB iPhone. I wonder if Cydia devs make more money in their gray market store than Android developers do in their official store.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #240 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Conversely, there's nothing you can do for your Android phone to make it run apps that aren't available on the platform. What was that about choice, again?

I shouldn't have to jail break my iPod to do that. I don't have to root my Droid X to do that. In Jan when I upgraded my iPod to a iPod Touch, I did an experiment. I wanted to see if I could replace my windows mobile device with an iPhone. Once IOS upgraded to 4.0 I determined that I could, with one exception. The customization of the desktop. I wanted to be able to customize my desktop and be free to put on OS upgrades when they become available.

Jail Breaking and Rooting was not an option for me. When it came time to replace my phone in July I got an Android device and haven't looked back. I have the iPod for my music and audio books and my Android for everything else.

I have 181 apps and games on my iPod. On my Droid X I have 139. I'm not looking for anymore apps on my iPod and on my Droid X there is only one that I would like to find. There is one type of app that I use all the time and I can't find a good one for Android. I love CarbonFin Outliner and there is nothing like it yet for the Android.
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