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RIM's PlayBook may undercut Apple iPad at $399 - report - Page 3

post #81 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

Yep, everyone else is supposed to magically just come up with a device despite Apple growing thier products from what was aguably a limited product initially compared to todays Apple products.
It's Okay, I know I am not allowed to say anything that is not glowing of Apple or negative of anyone else. RIM and others are not doing anything different that what Apple did, they put out a product, determined true interest and then went with expanding it if applicable. Pretty normal practice in all segments over the entire planet for many, many years...

I agree with what you're saying. But times HAVE changed. expectations are higher than they were before. If all we had was MS tablets, would you think the UI worked well? If something else comes along that works much better, would that MS model you thought was fine still be fine?

When RIM comes out with a tablet that has a new OS, with no apps, and no way to get on to the internet when away from a WiFi network other than to use a Blackberry, do you really think that can compete?

With 56% of current BB users saying that their next phone will be something OTHER that a BB, do you think this will be popular?

RIM is positioning it as a business product, because it's not looking interesting to most people who expect a lot of interesting lifestyle apps of all sorts. WP7 is having problems because they're late to the game, and have almost no apps (they also don't have HTML 5, or Flash either).

Right now, it's Android and iOS. That's where the interest lies. So we see Android with about 130,000 apps, and iOS with over 300,000 apps. But we also see the iPad as having over 45,000 apps designed for it. How is RIM going to compete with that? They've also come out with "6" on their phones, which is different that what they will have for this. So they're not getting any leverage from having 10,000 phone apps.

Do you really think I'm just saying it's got problems out of nowhere? There's nothing wrong with thinking that Apple's products have problems, aren't the best, or aren't going to do well. I say that about some of their stuff myself. But, you've got to give some good reasons for saying things. So far, you haven't. Speaking in generalities doesn't help. You have to give specific reasons, and expect to defend them logically. Falling back on the old canard that you can't say something bad about an Apple product is not a useful argument. In fact, it's not an argument at all. All it is is a way of you saying that you have no argument.
post #82 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The point you made bout having the iPad to compare it to is an important one. We often go through life thinking something is great, or horrible because we have nothing to compare it to. Many people will be buying one or the other without ever having tried anything else. If it's slow, well, then maybe that's the way it has to be.

That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.

This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.

You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.
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post #83 of 166
Do I have this right?
If you get a PlayBook, the only way to connect to the internet is with cellular?
WTF?
I smell massive bomb.
post #84 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Do I have this right?
If you get a PlayBook, the only way to connect to the internet is with cellular?
WTF?
I smell massive bomb.

i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.
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post #85 of 166
Amazing how much can change in a year. A year ago the Apple tablet was just speculation and now it dominate the 10+ year old tablet market.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._surfaces.html I feel bad for those companies that can’t source components at good prices and have to compete with Apple’s last generation products.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #86 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.

OK... I see what it is. It does have wifi.
post #87 of 166
. . .
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #88 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The cellular plus GPS pricing isnt as extreme as people think it is. I think the Samsung Galaxy fluctuates between $100 and $150 for that addition. I recall paying around $300 only a few years ago for a 3G cellular USB for Mac from AT&T.

On top of that, its not the cost of the components, but other costs that drive it up, as you are well aware And we have to look at it as a premium feature that any smart company will try to make a higher profit on since they will sell less of because they are premium options. We can look at it from the entry level iPads price but its possible Apple has decided to take a much profit margin specifically to draw customers in. This isnt only common, but good business.


On an unrelated matter, the TJ Maxx/Marshalls pricing is confusing. First of all, I thought official retailers had contracts that regulated how much below retail they could sell items for. Secondly, why so low when even at, say, $480 I think they would have sold out about as quickly.

Ok, two things. The first is that prices come down over time, and by volume. If Apple ordered a certain amount it would cost so much, but if they can now order four times as many, it will cost less. There are other costs as well, as you say, but it's possible that Apple needs its cost up front as many manufacturers do, and can then lower that price upon sell-through.

As far as the TJ Maxx pricing issue goes, Jobs said that they weren't an authorized dealer. Loss leader. This will bring them into the store where, hopefully, they will buy other things.
post #89 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.

This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.

You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.

And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."

The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.
post #90 of 166
Pricing it too low would be a mistake because they'd run out of inventory. Plus, enterprise users are notoriously loose with with their money on mobile stuff so a higher price makes more sense.

A low entry price is only necessary if RIM wants to grab a large consumer share, which doesn't seem to be the target for this device. At least not initially.

$399 doesn't sound right.
post #91 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

. . .

Good post. Succinct.
post #92 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

First quarter of 2010?

Just in time for Christmas, eh RIM?

You're thinking of the iPad, which was released First quarter of 2010. And yes, that is in time for Christmas 2010.

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post #93 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You're thinking of the iPad, which was released First quarter of 2010. And yes, that is in time for Christmas 2010.


iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.

RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
post #94 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Research in Motion's initial entrance into the tablet market may prove aggressive with a rumored $399 starting price point for a contract-free PlayBook.

Maylong's M-150 may undercut Apple iPad and RIM's PlayBook at $129.
So there. A winner has been declared in the tablet race to the bottom!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #95 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Despite what all the guys with smaller tablets say, size really does matter.

LMAO
post #96 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Well at $399 it will undercut the iPad. In price.

Yeah, and in profits. And n resulting stock price impact.
post #97 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Well at $399 it will undercut the iPad. In price.

It currently undercuts the iPad in price.

However, it only has a 7" screen - most users would see a $499 iPad with twice the memory, a larger screen, and a plethora of native apps., as a much better deal.

I think the praybook has potential - a qnx-based operating system and a cortex a9 CPU - however adobe air as the main development toolset?

No native API

There goes the advantage of the cortex a9 down the toilet
post #98 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."

The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.

True. I played around with a few Archos tablets at Best Buy, and I don't know if there was something wrong with them or they had been damaged or what, but they just sucked. 5 seconds before a button registered a touch, 5 seconds before anything else happened, 10 seconds on a blank screen while an app was launching, etc. If they have them out to drive sales, they're doing just the opposite. I've never understood why a place like Best Buy leaves trashed hardware sitting out. Why not just put up signs they say "Buy this crap, it barely works but it's cheap?"

The Tab, on the other hand, positioned towards the front of the store with the cellphones, was in good working order and gave a good impression.

The good news for the iPad is that it's actually kind of hard to screw it up. Not much in the way of hardware buttons to break, nothing in the way of computer stuff to screw up. Short of letting the battery die, I think they'll probably be in good working order, no matter what the various vendors do.
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post #99 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.

RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.

iPad was also released in Q1 - however it sold like gangbusters - and sight unseen - largely because apple has built up a ton of goodwill through several years of excellent product releases.

RIM conversely has had several stillborn and half-baked product releases and they've diminished their reputation and customer's confidence in their products.

Praybook being released in Q1 isn't what's going to hurt RIM; it's the paper launch they had earlier this year, along with the growing lack of enthusiasm for their products.
post #100 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.

RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.

If, as I think, they are aiming for the business market, then the holiday season isn't as important to them. Don't forget that Apple missed it too, with the iPad.
post #101 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jca666us View Post

It currently undercuts the iPad in price.

However, it only has a 7" screen - most users would see a $499 iPad with twice the memory, a larger screen, and a plethora of native apps., as a much better deal.

Excellent point. The starting price might be lower, but you dont exactly get the same product, just the same product category.

Quote:
I think the praybook has potential - a qnx-based operating system and a cortex a9 CPU - however adobe air as the main development toolset?

No native API

There goes the advantage of the cortex a9 down the toilet

You make plenty of good points, but Id also say that having Adobe Air as the UI also gives RiM a built-in developer base, which they desperately need. How this will affect the overall UI usability and developer community in the long run still remains to be seen.

Its pretty silly that anyone especially people on these forums who claim to be tech savvy* use the processing power to decide the performance of these devices. As you noted, having a resource hungry UI stripes away your HW advantage. Only devices using the same OS can really be compared directly but that wont be changing anytime soon.
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post #102 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Maylong's M-150 may undercut Apple iPad and RIM's PlayBook at $129.
So there. A winner has been declared in the tablet race to the bottom!

I like the way Walgreen's lies about why they're not selling it anymore. They call it "extremely high demand". But actually, it's because everyone buying it, returns it. Read the reviews on their page. A joke!

a professional review;

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/revie...oid-tablet.ars

Oh, and I just found this, referring from the Ars review. It's great. Apparently, this isn't as useless as we were lead to believe!

http://bbyopen.com/2010/11/maylong-a...than-you-think
post #103 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If, as I think, they are aiming for the business market, then the holiday season isn't as important to them. Don't forget that Apple missed it too, with the iPad.

Q4 is the biggest business quarter of the year as well. Its big all around, not just in the retail consumer market.

The issue is that 5-6 million people are going to buy tablets in Q4 2010. Those are people that won't be in the market in Q1. There will be people buying tablets in Q1, but not in a Q4 frenzy.

Apple and Samsung are going to gobble up thanksgiving dinner. RIM is going to show up the next day and get leftovers.
post #104 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Excellent point. The starting price might be lower, but you dont exactly get the same product, just the same product category.



You make plenty of good points, but Id also say that having Adobe Air as the UI also gives RiM a built-in developer base, which they desperately need. How this will affect the overall UI usability and developer community in the long run still remains to be seen.

Its pretty silly that anyone especially people on these forums who claim to be tech savvy* use the processing power to decide the performance of these devices. As you noted, having a resource hungry UI stripes away your HW advantage. Only devices using the same OS can really be compared directly but that wont be changing anytime soon.

You make a very good point about the advantages of RIM going with adobe air, however adobe air - in addition to being resource hungry, is very limited - compared to something like obj. C with a native API.

Sure they'll rally every flash developer out there, but imho you'll be hard pressed to see apps. with the breadth and depth of native iPad apps. right away.

The big wildcard here is what the ipad2 is spec'ed at - if apple is as aggressive as I think they could be, RIM is in trouble.
post #105 of 166
RIM can undercut all they want.
funny though. How the helll are they supposedly spending millions doing R&D on making this playbook yet they are going to undercut(rumor) the iPad which cost tens of million to make? And iPad ain't cheap. RIM is a joke. I bet they are using nothing but off the shelf crap and stock software that they are hyping up as theirs. "A WORK IN PROGRESS".

It all smells fishy. Watch the CEO haul a** before the fall of 2011 and RIM get broken into pieces.
Just my two cents.
post #106 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

Q4 is the biggest business quarter of the year as well. Its big all around, not just in the retail consumer market.

The issue is that 5-6 million people are going to buy tablets in Q4 2010. Those are people that won't be in the market in Q1. There will be people buying tablets in Q1, but not in a Q4 frenzy.

Apple and Samsung are going to gobble up thanksgiving dinner. RIM is going to show up the next day and get leftovers.

I don't think it would have made much difference. You notice how RIM's stuff is almost always "buy one get one free" in the forth quarter? That brings their numbers up for that all important time. But if they didn't, their numbers might be 20% lower. I really don't think it will matter. But then, I don't see this as doing great no matter what.
post #107 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

RIM can undercut all they want.
funny though. How the helll are they supposedly spending millions doing R&D on making this playbook yet they are going to undercut(rumor) the iPad which cost tens of million to make? And iPad ain't cheap. RIM is a joke. I bet they are using nothing but off the shelf crap and stock software that they are hyping up as theirs. "A WORK IN PROGRESS".

It all smells fishy. Watch the CEO haul a** before the fall of 2011 and RIM get broken into pieces.
Just my two cents.

Rim undercutting ipad is a mistake - better that they let the praybook gestate - refine both the hw and sw - for a few more months - and put out a really solid release.

Qnx is a great base, but take the time to optimize and fine-tune the os and UI.
Develop a native API and standardize on a development toolset ideal for a state of the art mobile platform.

Scrap the 7" screen - do some usability testing - increase the screen size.
Get competitive - go with amoled or a better screen technology.

Get innovative with the design - iPad is the baseline - make it lighter, better battery life, etc.
post #108 of 166
Just in time for iPad 2 which very well may double storage for same price.

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
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iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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post #109 of 166
$399 may get you a playbook tablet but not a Tablet with all the features and capabilities.
post #110 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Despite what all the guys with smaller tablets say, size really does matter.

Ever wonder why small people drive around large SUVs?

They are compensating for their small stature.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #111 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Since when is the iPad a minivan and the PlayBook a Ferrari?

Hahaha!!! Now that's real funny
post #112 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Ever wonder why small people drive around large SUVs?

They are compensating for their small stature.

So I guess large people drive mini coopers?
post #113 of 166
Competing against Apple solely on price is usually a losing proposition. Jim no-ballsilie seems to be under the delusion that this time it'll be different.
post #114 of 166
Hello AI! Please check out the original article from Mobility Insider.

http://mobilityinsider.com/2010/11/1...erry-playbook/

To begin with the whole writing seems overly positive. All the specs are copy pasted. The video is suspiciously short and bad. AND when you search for Mobility Insider on Google the website/blog does not appear, which is strange if in any way popular. So it must be pretty new. Plus there are some comments as well and posting names which sounds a tad too much cliché in my opinion having read a lot of forums. I guess we might have been played...What do you think?

It pisses me off because the news are all over the internet - and I am a bit dissapointed that AI are not more critical towards sources. But even more tried being manipulated by I guess, the marketing department of Blackberry or such.

Update: and here they are defending themselves from others questioning them, rich text and everything. Ryder - if I was writing a Hollywood movie script, this is how I would name my lead part, played by Tom Cruise:
http://forums.crackberry.com/f222/mo...2011-a-556250/
post #115 of 166
I actually think that RIM is doing the correct thing with the Playbook and the OS - a proper tablet OS, not tweaking Android, or *shudder* forcing Windows 7 to run on it.

However it has got a lesser specification than the iPad with the 7" display, so it needs to undercut the iPad. That is only going to happen if iPad 2 costs more (because of extra features) now. Why would I pick the Playbook over the iPad otherwise?

Oh, there's the dual-core 1GHz processor - that will be nice in a multitasking environment. But iPad 2 is surely going to utilise something similar.

There's 1GB of RAM - a major advantage - except the iPad gets by with 256MB just fine, and iPad 2 will surely have 512MB at least.

The MicroHDMI port is nice - Apple need to up their game on HDMI support for iPad, even if it is a part of the standard iPad 2 dock range.

Flash ... except Flash sucks on mobile devices.

Cameras are good - iPad 2 will have these (surely). 5MP and 3MP for the playbook, but does the front "facebook" camera need to be 3MP!

Software... iPad is likely to win hands down because it is more mature, massive library, and the built-in software has Apple's ease of use and, in some cases, nearly ten years of usability knowledge applied.

Personally I think the Playbook should be $299 for the 7" 8GB version. I mean, in the end it's essentially a netbook without a keyboard (cheaper casing) and using a vastly cheaper processor solution and with fewer moving parts.
post #116 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

Q4 is the biggest business quarter of the year as well. Its big all around, not just in the retail consumer market.

The issue is that 5-6 million people are going to buy tablets in Q4 2010. Those are people that won't be in the market in Q1. There will be people buying tablets in Q1, but not in a Q4 frenzy.

Apple and Samsung are going to gobble up thanksgiving dinner. RIM is going to show up the next day and get leftovers.

But some things are better after sitting around awhile some thing!

Skip
post #117 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

First impression: RIM is going to offer a special promotion -- BNGO (pronounced BINGO), stands for Buy None Get One

post #118 of 166
This is fantastic. iPad still seems too expensive for what it is in some markets. Certainly its a lot more than netbook pricing which many might compare it too.

This help puts pressure on Apple to drop iPad pricing, particularly given Blackberry's Playbook has better specified hardware than the iPad.
post #119 of 166
There's an 8GB model?

Seems somewhat of a waste. Reminds me when Apple sold the 4GB iPhone.
post #120 of 166
Half the storage and half the screen for only 80% of the price!

That sounds like a good deal, doesn't it ... ?

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