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Sony adopts, then drops, Cocoa-like GNUStep plans to rival Apple iOS - Page 3

post #81 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if Steve would agree with me. It is more or less the reason for the sale of Pixar to Disney. Anything they buy has to quickly adapt to the Apple way. Part of that implies adding to Apple with minimal fuss.

I think you have to learn to differentiate between Jobs and Apple. Apple NEVER owned Pixar, Jobs did.

Jobs was smart enough to realize that Pixar on its own was just a niche player, that might eventually get crushed by the big guys, but that it contained extremely valuable know-how to turn around an ailing giant like Disney.

Jobs was also smart enough that he has more pull as the largest shareholder of a giant company (Disney) than as a more or less ruler of a much smaller company (Pixar).
That Jobs' involvement with Pixar and now Disney also helped Jobs investment in Apple, that's a different story, but Pixar never was part of Apple.

How smart Job's moves were is clear from the fact that at this point he managed to get Apple in a position where they could just swallow Disney, and in the resulting share swap he might even become a controlling share holder of the combined company.
post #82 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... the BeOS (in its eVilla web browser appliance) ....[/url][/c]

No, no, no, no!! There was no "BeOS" in the eVilla. It ran BeIA. This was not BeOS, it was "BeOS-like". The OS was gutted and a lot of stuff no longer worked in the same way, the executables used a compression technique and it had a different API in many places so even compressed BeOS apps failed to run, the file system was completely compressed and not compatible with BFS and even when you dropped to a Desktop, half of the OS was missing. It was closer to BeOS than iOS is to Mac OS X, but not by much.
post #83 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by henderson101 View Post

It was closer to BeOS than iOS is to Mac OS X, but not by much.

I have a hard time believing this, because iOS is Mac OS X, at least as far as the actual OS is concerned. The GUI layer is different, but that's strictly speaking not the OS.

My iPhone running iOS 4.1 has the same kernel as Mac OS X 10.6.3. The file system is the same, with Cydia the user-level CLI tools can be installed, etc.

The difference is simply a few kernel configuration parameters, e.g. to turn off paging, etc. but that doesn't mean it's not the same OS.
post #84 of 103
I would think that Sony dropped the platform because they realised that far from letting them attack Apple, it would in fact help them.

A merger between Sony and Apple would be a disaster. One of Apple's key reasons for success is that it is run like a small startup. Their style works great but wouldn't suit a big organisation like Sony with a huge product range and lots of dependencies between them.
post #85 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

So, Steve Jobs, in a final salute to the late Akio Morita (a hero of mine too BTW), could license iOS to Sony. And that would be almost as massive as Apple buying Sony.

/drool
post #86 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

I have a hard time believing this, because iOS is Mac OS X, at least as far as the actual OS is concerned. The GUI layer is different, but that's strictly speaking not the OS.

My iPhone running iOS 4.1 has the same kernel as Mac OS X 10.6.3. The file system is the same, with Cydia the user-level CLI tools can be installed, etc.

The difference is simply a few kernel configuration parameters, e.g. to turn off paging, etc. but that doesn't mean it's not the same OS.

From the point of view of higher level API it is almost feature -< feature the same as well. FOundation, Core FOundation ( and all lower level stuff) , Core Animation. The only exception is UIKit -> AppKit which is basically a namespace change.

The code behind UIImage and the methods it handles are almost the exact same as NSImage.

They really did get OS X on a small device.
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post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


So, Steve Jobs, in a final salute to the late Akio Morita (a hero of mine too BTW), could license iOS to Sony. And that would be almost as massive as Apple buying Sony.

I would love to see that happen, Apple need to find a partner who is not now competing with them and licence their OS to that partner in specific markets. In fact i think they missed a trick by not allowing Samsung a licence to produce iOS devices in South Korea, that brand is huge there. Samsung will win there, and therefore Android. This needs to be strategic. If you are only going to get < 10% of the market in a country, leverage the OS onto a different manufacturer.
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post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I would love to see that happen, Apple need to find a partner who is not now competing with them and licence their OS to that partner in specific markets. In fact i think they missed a trick by not allowing Samsung a licence to produce iOS devices in South Korea, that brand is huge there. Samsung will win there, and therefore Android. This needs to be strategic. If you are only going to get < 10% of the market in a country, leverage the OS onto a different manufacturer.

Wow. That's crazy, IMO. When the iPad officially launches in South Korea, they are easily going to have huge market share, at least 30% or so. Where is the < 10% estimate from? The problem is not demand globally, it's the availability...!
post #89 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Wow. That's crazy, IMO. When the iPad officially launches in South Korea, they are easily going to have huge market share, at least 30% or so. Where is the < 10% estimate from? The problem is not demand globally, it's the availability...!

Samsung are huge in Korea. About 50%. Thats a huge local brand. Apple's brand is smaller there, and is proably limited by patriotic pride in Samsung. So why compete? Or let the Apple phones take the 10% they are going to get, and Samsung running iOS take another 25%. They are not going to compete with Samsung there, and probably not with HTC in China.

I know none of this will happen, it should happen. We know why Apple lost the PC wars, and while I acknowledge that the starting blocks are different here, it could happen again. Strategic licensing will help.

The other market is a games console. Give that to Sony.
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post #90 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

No. Not remotely. What proprietary formats do you associate with Apple?



Out of all the things that have been mentioned, I have no idea why you think "control freak" is an interesting or relevant point of comparison.

If anything, Sony could have used a great deal more of Apple's capacity to not do things. In fact, you could make the case that Apple is Sony with the ability to say "no."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10113278-16.html

apple is just more successful at tying people to its products than sony was.
'control freak' is just that a lot of people disliked sony for its proprietary/lock in stance. and a good many people (and growing) are getting fed up with apples stance as well.
apple will change its tune IF android isnt' shut down by lawsuit because the day is coming when hardware and android are going to gel and be a monster.
post #91 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10113278-16.html

Hmmm, that's a survey of the opinion of Register readers, always a hotbed of Apple hatred. I actually asked "What proprietary formats do you associate with Apple?"l

Quote:
apple is just more successful at tying people to its products than sony was.
'control freak' is just that a lot of people disliked sony for its proprietary/lock in stance. and a good many people (and growing) are getting fed up with apples stance as well.
apple will change its tune IF android isnt' shut down by lawsuit because the day is coming when hardware and android are going to gel and be a monster.

I didn't say anything about "tying people to products", which has as much to do with brand loyalty and perceived quality as anything else. I was talking about things like Digital8, MiniDisc, ATRAC, Memory Stick, SDDS, and UMD. These are all in-house dead ends that have hampered adoption and orphaned users over the years.

What has Apple been doing that compares to that? Outside of a few ill-advised monitor hookup schemes, Apple typically uses industry standard ports and storage. AAC, h.264, standards.

The idea that growing numbers of people are getting "fed-up" with some ill-defined "control" on Apple's part is, of course, utter bullshit, although I know you wish fervently it was true. Apple has never been healthier, and they're selling products as fast as they can make them.

Talk of "lock-in" and "open vs. closed" is just default fanboy noise, it doesn't mean a thing. Proprietary, on the other hand, can be a real trap, as Sony has learned.
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post #92 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Samsung are huge in Korea. About 50%. Thats a huge local brand. Apple's brand is smaller there, and is proably limited by patriotic pride in Samsung. So why compete? Or let the Apple phones take the 10% they are going to get, and Samsung running iOS take another 25%. They are not going to compete with Samsung there, and probably not with HTC in China.

I know none of this will happen, it should happen. We know why Apple lost the PC wars, and while I acknowledge that the starting blocks are different here, it could happen again. Strategic licensing will help.

The other market is a games console. Give that to Sony.

Wait. So you're saying Apple should give up because they aren't going to compete. That is, why should Apple try...??? And not going to compete with HTC in China???

Apple cannot supply enough iPhone 4 and iPad to Korea and China and many, many other countries. Cannot supply enough to meet the extremely high demand. So, your solution is for Apple to just say, "Ah, f** those countries, why bother, just license iOS to them and let them make their own crappy handsets..."

I know iOS licensing is an interesting idea, but doing so because they're *giving up* in a particular country is quite far out there.
post #93 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Hmmm, that's a survey of the opinion of Register readers, always a hotbed of Apple hatred. I actually asked "What proprietary formats do you associate with Apple?"l



I didn't say anything about "tying people to products", which has as much to do with brand loyalty and perceived quality as anything else. I was talking about things like Digital8, MiniDisc, ATRAC, Memory Stick, SDDS, and UMD. These are all in-house dead ends that have hampered adoption and orphaned users over the years.

What has Apple been doing that compares to that? Outside of a few ill-advised monitor hookup schemes, Apple typically uses industry standard ports and storage. AAC, h.264, standards.

The idea that growing numbers of people are getting "fed-up" with some ill-defined "control" on Apple's part is, of course, utter bullshit, although I know you wish fervently it was true. Apple has never been healthier, and they're selling products as fast as they can make them.

Talk of "lock-in" and "open vs. closed" is just default fanboy noise, it doesn't mean a thing. Proprietary, on the other hand, can be a real trap, as Sony has learned.


gee wiz, it was tough to find but how about a little known product called 'itunes'? DAAP?
sorry if you think that some people aren't getting fed up with the north korean...i mean apple attitude. but they are. may not be a large group but it is growing. time will tell.
post #94 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

gee wiz, it was tough to find but how about a little known product called 'itunes'? DAAP?
sorry if you think that some people aren't getting fed up with the north korean...i mean apple attitude. but they are. may not be a large group but it is growing. time will tell.

What do you think is locked In about iTunes. Are you suggesting that if you copy an MP3 or Audio CD to iTunes that is somehow keeps you from ever being able to use a different app for organizing your media files? No one is making you use iTunes in any way, shape or form.

Note, this is where you go all Vicky Pollard with a yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but, whateva! snap back with a comment about Apple tying iTunes to their iTunes Store and their iDevices, even though its connection between the iDevice, iTunes and iTunes Store that finally made it easy for users to maintain their own digital libraries.

Also note that there are other apps out there to connect to your iDevices and other digital stores to purchase music from, if you were so inclined.


Coming up: In our next episode we get to hear about Apple screwing customers by soldering the CPU and RAM in their iPods making it impossible for users to upgrade.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #95 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What do you think is “locked In” about iTunes. Are you suggesting that if you copy an MP3 or Audio CD to iTunes that is somehow keeps you from ever being able to use a different app for organizing your media files? No one is making you use iTunes in any way, shape or form.

Note, this is where you go all Vicky Pollard with a “yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but, whateva!” snap back with a comment about Apple tying iTunes to their iTunes Store and their iDevices, even though it’s connection between the iDevice, iTunes and iTunes Store that finally made it easy for users to maintain their own digital libraries.

Also note that there are other apps out there to connect to your iDevices and other digital stores to purchase music from, if you were so inclined.


Coming up: In our next episode we get to hear about Apple screwing customers by soldering the CPU and RAM in their iPods making it impossible for users to upgrade.


i should have said 'itunes store' along with the proprietary streaming of itunes.
so how else do you want to skirt around that?
tim berners-lee has an article on that as well if you want to look around. but of course, he is just another idiot too right?
next up: another apple douche.
post #96 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i should have said 'itunes store' along with the proprietary streaming of itunes.
so how else do you want to skirt around that?
tim berners-lee has an article on that as well if you want to look around. but of course, he is just another idiot too right?
next up: another apple douche.

I see. So when challenged to get specific about your "proprietary" remarks, you wind up spitting about "Apple douches", which is pretty much what I figured how deep your analysis went.
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post #97 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I see. So when challenged to get specific about your "proprietary" remarks, you wind up spitting about "Apple douches", which is pretty much what I figured how deep your analysis went.

still skirting...and did i lie people? i think not...
post #98 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

still skirting...and did i lie people? i think not...

Yes, you are skirting. You said that Apple is all about proprietary formats. You then used iTunes as on odd claim to that, followed by an even odder correction the iTunes Store is a proprietary format.

This is a very weak strawman or you simply dont realize that the content on the iTS can be found elsewhere and that its the content owners that require DRM for video.

Again, where are the proprietary formats that forcing people to only use Apples products and services?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #99 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The other market is a games console. Give that to Sony.

Why??? iOS is on the verge of achieving a dominant position in gaming consoles.
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post #100 of 103
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Why??? iOS is on the verge of achieving a dominant position in gaming consoles.

Exactly. I'll repeat again. Take an A4 processor. Double the speed, throw in another core. Pair it up with an ATI 5 or 6 series GPU. Take it to full OpenGL. I am deadly sure such a device can easily trounce the PS3 in terms of graphics and playability, or at the very least deliver equivalent ports of whatever triple-A titles come out of PS3/ Xbox360/PC.

The only issue is how to handle gigabytes of storage for the games. That said, running a gaming console off Flash Memory... That would be some superb, superb load times and would allow you to do some very interesting things in managing memory, level design, etc.
post #101 of 103
Nokia recently let go a total of its 1,800 employees who were responsible for Symbian:
http://www.techknots.com/mobiles/is-...pping-symbian/

I would say that they are either planning on writing a new one from scratch or looking for a viable replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Isn't Symbian actually Nokia's own OS already? And didn't they just finish pushing all the open source goons out of the club in preparation for some serious in house development?

It seems more likely to me, that rather than dropping Symbian, Nokia is preparing to run with it as their main OS and modernise it for smart-phones.
post #102 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Take an A4 processor. Double the speed, throw in another core. Pair it up with an ATI 5 or 6 series GPU. Take it to full OpenGL. I am deadly sure such a device can easily trounce the PS3 in terms of graphics and playability, or at the very least deliver equivalent ports of whatever triple-A titles come out of PS3/ Xbox360/PC.

The only issue is how to handle gigabytes of storage for the games. That said, running a gaming console off Flash Memory... That would be some superb, superb load times and would allow you to do some very interesting things in managing memory, level design, etc.

Exactly. I believe that while Apple will continue to do very well with Macs, iPhones, and perhaps television, gaming is the only market (perhaps eBook reading) where Apple seem poised to achieve the market dominance they have with portable music players.
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post #103 of 103
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Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

GNUStep, after all, should be source code compatible with Cocoa.

should be, unfortunately Apple took a separate path with Objective C 2.0. "synthesized accessor methods," for example, aren't in GNUStep gcc AFAIK. Some gcc folks say (from what i've read) that gnustep has such a small userbase it's not worth syncing with Apple's changes.

But it's nice to try out if one wants to get started on ObjC programming for free however.

And Sony must be kidding; just because it's based on Nextstep doesn't mean they can turn it into an iPhone competitor, not anymore that they could use the Boost C++ library and do the same.
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