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IDC: Android poised to pass Apple's iOS, Nokia's Symbian in Europe

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 
Google's Android mobile operating system will pass Apple's iOS and Nokia's Symbian in 2011 to become the top smartphone platform in all of Europe, IDC has predicted.

IDC analyst Francisco Jeronimo told Bloomberg that Android, which was nipping at the heels of Apple's iOS in the third quarter of 2010, will likely surpass both Apple and Nokia next year. In the last quarter, Nokia's Symbian represented 34 percent of smartphone sales in Western Europe, the iPhone was 24 percent, and Android was 23 percent.

"The iPhone was last year's hot device and now people are looking for something different," Jeronimo reportedly said. He added that he believes the new Samsung Galaxy S offers a similar experience to the iPhone at a lower price.

Samsung was propelled by the launch of the Galaxy S last quarter, helping it achieve 14 percent of Android-based handset shipments. HTC was the Android leader in Europe representing 39 percent, followed by Sony Ericsson with 27 percent.

Android's ascendancy in Europe follows it surpassing the iPhone in the U.S. earlier this year. Google's free operating system is available to multiple hardware makers and device manufacturers who create smartphones and tablets in a variety of form factors, while iOS, which powers the iPhone and iPad, is restricted to hardware made by Apple.

But a recent survey found that Apple could stunt the growth of Android, at least in the U.S., if the iPhone were available on more carriers. A poll of recent smartphone buyers found that 34 percent of those not on AT&T, the exclusive carrier of Apple's smartphone, would have preferred to buy the iPhone.

According to Nielsen, even the launch of the iPhone 4 over the summer could not stop the market share growth of Android. Phones running Android in the U.S. are available on all four major wireless carriers, but in many countries in Europe, the iPhone is also available on multiple carriers.

While Android's total market share has grown, no single handset running Google's mobile operating system has compared to Apple's iPhone. The iPhone 4 sold 1.7 million in its first three days, and went on to ship a record 14.1 million last quarter.
post #2 of 86
While I do appreciate that a horserace makes for a more compelling storyline, I do not understand why writers continue to speak of Android overtaking Apple iOS. The real story is that Android is replacing Windows. Period.

If you want to write about Android and Apple, then what seems interesting to me is the fact that Apple "software cum hardware" approach is so powerful in a world that has grown up with the windows strategy.

Looking forward to hearing more about all of this.
post #3 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Google's Android mobile operating system will pass Apple's iOS and Nokia's Symbian in 2011 to become the top smartphone platform in all of Europe, IDC has predicted....

I really wish tech sites would stop reporting what manufacturers self-report as sold to their distributors and channels as actual consumer interest.

Android sells more, we all know that. This does not necessarily equate to consumers being interested in or using the product. They give Android phones away for free where I live and "sales" are through the roof, but I still rarely see anyone using one on the train.
post #4 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its doing all of the above. It has already replaced Windows Mobile by far, It has beaten up RIM and its giving iOS very strong run, in some cases beating it out. There isn't any company that is so powerful that they remain powerful forever. History has proven that time and time again. Apple is on top now, for many decades they were not even considered a contender.

Do you even understand what you are saying is pure BS?

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post #5 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

Do you even understand what you are saying is pure BS?

No... [hmmmmm, on edit] He actually admits that he understands that it's pure bs.
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post #6 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Okay so whats BS. Is Android growing? The answer is yes in some cases by over 800%. This is fact even you can look up. Is Windows Mobile dead, Yes clearly. Is RIM taking a hit, yes clearly.

For many decades was Apple the doormat of MS, yes clearly.

So tell me where I am wrong and prove it.

He asked if you understood what you are saying is pure bs and you said, and I quote, "Actually I understand this very well.".
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post #7 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

This was to be expected and I also believe that is is true that Apple could and would slow down the growth of Android in the US if they went multi carrier.

I don't fully agree. In the US, Apple has about 6.5% of the smartphone market. In other countries with multiple carriers (UK, Canada, etc). market share is around 10%. The US phone market is relatively small.

The real issue is that Apple is selling 1 model versus 50-60 Androids. This is similar to the MAC versus PC syndrome.
post #8 of 86
Competition in the smartphone market is not a zero-sum game. If the market were 100% saturated it would be... but it's far from it. iPhone will continue to see blockbuster growth, and yes, free Android handsets (with GOOG hoping to make a few ad $$ on the back end) will grow as well. In many cases the free option will out-grow the iPhone. Big deal. Would AAPL like it if Android weren't competing? Of course. Would they sell more? Sure. But this is the real world, and there is competition. AAPL will continue as it always has to make a superior product, and more and more people will buy it.

In the phone world, carrier matters at least as much as handset, which is a big reason for Android's success. Get iPhones into Verizon showrooms, and their counterparts around the world, and iPhone market share is sure to pick up.
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post #9 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I really wish tech sites would stop reporting what manufacturers self-report as sold to their distributors and channels as actual consumer interest.

Android sells more, we all know that. This does not necessarily equate to consumers being interested in or using the product. They give Android phones away for free where I live and "sales" are through the roof, but I still rarely see anyone using one on the train.

This is very true.

When Samsung reported 600,000 sales of the Galaxy Tab, how many were inventory sales?

When i first laid eyes on the Galaxy Tab in PC World/Currys, it was £529, then it was £499 and yesterday it was £448. I asked the sales guy how many they'd sold in that store, and it's a pretty big store, his answer non, hence the fire sale.

iPad was all but sold out.
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post #10 of 86
Ok so a free OS pimped by about every freaking smartphone maker out there is flooding the market more than iOS. Who cares.
Apple controls iOS 100% while so they get 100% of the money!
As for the Android crowd, well there are literally dozens of models on the world market and plenty of players. So you do the math. Why the hell should Apple be worried? They aren't in the marginalized OS pitt known as Android.
post #11 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Again you said nothing. If you aren't going to contribute something to the topic then stop posting, it only makes you sound like an ass. If you have something to add to the topic find, if not go away and act like a child somewhere else.

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post #12 of 86
Just try to buy one here. Even certified Apple resellers refuse to sell them because Apple can't deliver them enough stock (they even make this statement on their websites:

Quote:
"Beste klant,

Op 30 juli introduceerde Apple de nieuwe iPhone 4 in België. Het toestel is echter zo populair dat Apple in de verste verte de vraag niet kan bijhouden.

De aantallen die Switch zou kunnen krijgen zijn zodanig klein dat we genoodzaakt zijn om de iPhone 4 niet in ons gamma op te nemen. Het is bijgevolg niet mogelijk om een iPhone bij Switch te bestellen, en dit tot wij zeker zijn dat we op regelmatige basis redelijke hoeveelheden kunnen leveren, hetgeen we dan ook prompt zullen melden via onze website en in onze winkels.
"

Translation:
Quote:
"Dear Customer,

On July 30th, Apple introduced the new iPhone in Belgium. But the device is so popular that Apple can not keep even the slightest demand.

The number of iPhones we can get are so small that we decided not to include the iPhone 4 in our range. It is therefore not possible to order an iPhone, Only until we are sure that Apple can deliver regularly and in reasonable quantities we will announce this on our website and in our stores"

). Personally I know of at least 10 people who want to buy one, including me (without a 2 year subscription from carrier Mobistar). Can't find it.
Some people are buying Andy's just because there are no iPhones.
post #13 of 86
Also, for Android to pass iOS, you have to count iPad and iPod Touch users too. Otherwise you just have all the different incompatible Android platforms combined passing the iPhone alone. Not passing iOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

This is very true.

When Samsung reported 600,000 sales of the Galaxy Tab, how many were inventory sales?

When i first laid eyes on the Galaxy Tab in PC World/Currys, it was £529, then it was £499 and yesterday it was £448. I asked the sales guy how any they'd sold in that store, and it's a pretty big store, his answer non, hence the fire sale.

iPad was all but sold out.
post #14 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzelburg View Post

Personally I know of at least 10 people who want to buy one, including me (without a 2 year subscription from carrier Mobistar). Can't find it.
Some people are buying Andy's just because there are no iPhones.

This continues to be perplexing. Foxcon is cranking out an iPhone every one and a half seconds. How is it that Android phones are in abundance? Is it because there are multiple manufacturers?

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post #15 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

This is very true.

When Samsung reported 600,000 sales of the Galaxy Tab, how many were inventory sales?

When i first laid eyes on the Galaxy Tab in PC World/Currys, it was £529, then it was £499 and yesterday it was £448. I asked the sales guy how any they'd sold in that store, and it's a pretty big store, his answer non, hence the fire sale.

iPad was all but sold out.

... and this is what I commented in an earlier story about the GT... 600,000 in the channel... maybe 150,000 sold... if they are lucky... and I also said that there will be deep discounts just before Christmas.

So I'm wondering... when they are talking about the Android OS overtaking iOS, are they talking about just smartphones or are they talking about all Android and iOS devices? [on edit... I noticed that Nagromme mentioned the same thing]
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post #16 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Also, for Android to pass iOS, you have to count iPad and iPod Touch users too. Otherwise you just have all the different incompatible Android platforms combined passing the iPhone alone. Not passing iOS.

Yep. And you can throw in ATV into the equation as well.
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post #17 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and this is what I commented in an earlier story about the GT... 600,000 in the channel... maybe 150,000 sold... if they are lucky... and I also said that there will be deep discounts just before Christmas.

So I'm wondering... when they are talking about the Android OS overtaking iOS, are they talking about just smartphones or are they talking about all Android and iOS devices? [on edit... I noticed that Nagromme mentioned the same thing]

Yeah i'm wondering the same thing.
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post #18 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuxlavabo View Post

Competition in the smartphone market is not a zero-sum game. If the market were 100% saturated it would be... but it's far from it. iPhone will continue to see blockbuster growth, and yes, free Android handsets (with GOOG hoping to make a few ad $$ on the back end) will grow as well. In many cases the free option will out-grow the iPhone. Big deal. Would AAPL like it if Android weren't competing? Of course. Would they sell more? Sure. But this is the real world, and there is competition. AAPL will continue as it always has to make a superior product, and more and more people will buy it.

In the phone world, carrier matters at least as much as handset, which is a big reason for Android's success. Get iPhones into Verizon showrooms, and their counterparts around the world, and iPhone market share is sure to pick up.

As far as I am aware, the US market is the only market where the iPhone is only with one carrier. To all those expecting iPhone to wipe android off the face of the earth when Verizon gets it think again....

Here in the UK iPhone is on every carrier, same story in most of Europe and yet this story is reporting android becoming the leading platform, all without the buy one get one free deals since they are US only. Get used to it fanboys.
post #19 of 86
With WinMo starting as well..... I think that Android's growth will slow down a little. So maybe it is 2012?
post #20 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB View Post

While I do appreciate that a horserace makes for a more compelling storyline, I do not understand why writers continue to speak of Android overtaking Apple iOS. The real story is that Android is replacing Windows. Period.

Totally agree. I personally think it is great that there are two viable mobile platforms and neither of them is from Microsoft. This trend is likely to continue with Tablets and it is going to continue to drive many people away from Windows, even on the desktop.
post #21 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You act as if your stupidity bothers me. So when you can't post something educated you make yourself look even more stupid but using emotions that make you look like a mental health patient.

Keep up the good work.

Without taking sides Island Hermit wasn't actually attacking you. He was merely pointing out that you agreed that what you said was BS.

Povilas said: Do you even understand what you are saying is pure BS?

To which you replied: Actually I understand this very well.

He was teasing you, you took the bait and now he's reeling you in. Let go of the hook.
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post #22 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

As far as I am aware, the US market is the only market where the iPhone is only with one carrier. To all those expecting iPhone to wipe android off the face of the earth when Verizon gets it think again....

Here in the UK iPhone is on every carrier, same story in most of Europe and yet this story is reporting android becoming the leading platform, all without the buy one get one free deals since they are US only. Get used to it fanboys.

I don't think most of of us really care that much about who wins what, we've been here before. I think all we're trying to establish is how many Android phones are actual sales to customers, not those delivered into the sales channels.
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post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

As far as I am aware, the US market is the only market where the iPhone is only with one carrier. To all those expecting iPhone to wipe android off the face of the earth when Verizon gets it think again....

Here in the UK iPhone is on every carrier, same story in most of Europe and yet this story is reporting android becoming the leading platform, all without the buy one get one free deals since they are US only. Get used to it fanboys.

how dare you! we here at north korea...i mean apple....will keep you fandroids in check one way or another!

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-bans-...pp-store/71471
post #24 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Android doesn't seem to be slowing becasue they are not giving any offers on phones. The phones are the same price as the iPhone. RIM has been giong BOGO for a long time and Windows 7 phones were just released and they are already doing BOGO.

I don't think even hard core AFBs will argue that Android isn't a capable phone maybe in part because it is very similar to iPhone. When comparing any products before making a purchasing decision, fit and finish is is one factor to consider. My neighbor just bought the Galaxy phone and loves it, while his wife has an iPhone. When I held his phone it felt very bulky and the plastic construction seemed rather cheap. I really like the way my iPhone feels in the hand as well as the way it functions. Not to dis the Galaxy but the fit and finish on the iPhone is top notch.

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post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzelburg View Post

Just try to buy one here. Even certified Apple resellers refuse to sell them because Apple can't deliver them enough stock (they even make this statement on their websites)... Personally I know of at least 10 people who want to buy one, including me (without a 2 year subscription from carrier Mobistar). Can't find it.
Some people are buying Andy's just because there are no iPhones.

Now that's an Apple Reseller with some real *balls*. The one I do some work for here in Asia would never have the guts to tell Apple to f*** off, well Apple wouldn't care anyway...

But yeah, thank you for clarifying. Most people do not realise how impossibly difficult it is to find iPhone 4 in many European, Asian, Middle Eastern, etc. markets. Let alone iPads which have barely launched officially in so, so many countries.

The issue is, Apple can sell much more, if they make much more. End of story.

In the meantime, people will continue to buy more of Android and Blackberry because it's more readily available, of course also Android is so widely available from so many handset manufacturers.

Apple is 1. Only one company. 2. At the very max of its (current) production capacity.

Of course Android is going to "win"! That is, have more marketshare, if you consider that "winning", which some might do.
post #26 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whatever Island he is on they need to disconnect the power. Or let it sink into the ocean. The IQ of the forum would go up by 20%.

Problem on this forum is any chance of having a technology debate on products other then what Apple has to offer is dead within about three posts. Its sad and pathetic. I am not only a fan of Apple I am a fan of technology and I like talking about more then just Apple products and to compare what others have to offer.

In many cases we have a group that simply likes to go into defensive mode because they have some complex that Apple needs to rule the world. Then you have the other group that is afraid they aren't going to be seen as cool enough because now everyone owns Apple products. Its like a power struggle between their ears.

If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny to watch.

It's them Dharma Project experiments.
post #27 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

how dare you! we here at north korea...i mean apple....will keep you fandroids in check one way or another!

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-bans-...pp-store/71471

That is bizarre. They do have many PC-related magazine apps (I think, never bothered to look for PC magazine apps) and definitely also through Zinio.
post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

In many cases we have a group that simply likes to go into defensive mode because they have some complex that Apple needs to rule the world. Then you have the other group that is afraid they aren't going to be seen as cool enough because now everyone owns Apple products.

I think i fall into the latter category. But at least the name calling has stopped.

I need to find another technology company that's in its ascendancy that also make compelling products. Any tips?
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post #29 of 86
So an OS which is available on multiple handsets with multiple carriers (including being given away with free handsets) is just about to overtake iOS, which is available on one model of phone with limited carriers? And Google think this is something to be excited about? Google, RIM, Symbian and MS should be 98% of the market, not struggling to keep up with the 'underdog' that is Apple...
post #30 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

As far as I am aware, the US market is the only market where the iPhone is only with one carrier. To all those expecting iPhone to wipe android off the face of the earth when Verizon gets it think again....

In NZ the iPhone only has one official carrier, they are sold unlocked, but there is only one official carrier.
post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

While this rarely gets mentioned I also think a big downside to owning an iPhone now that alot more teens have phones is the fact you can't get insurance on your iPhone like you can other smartphones.

Really? I thought you could get insurance for anything.

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post #32 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB View Post

While I do appreciate that a horserace makes for a more compelling storyline, I do not understand why writers continue to speak of Android overtaking Apple iOS. The real story is that Android is replacing Windows. Period.

If you want to write about Android and Apple, then what seems interesting to me is the fact that Apple "software cum hardware" approach is so powerful in a world that has grown up with the windows strategy.

Looking forward to hearing more about all of this.

@TommyB, great point!

Here's another: Nokia is still the global market share leader, but how has that been working out for their organization and shareholders?

The market share horse race is sexy, but what really matters is that AAPL owns the smartphone market's profitability. And, while Android as a loose platform will probably take over top market share slot from Nokia at some point, each individual company selling Android phones is no where near AAPL profit share.


Cheers!
Deon
post #33 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Really? I thought you could get insurance for anything.

I believe AT&T is offering insurance at $13.99 a month. With a $199 deductible if I'm not mistaken. Ouch.
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post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and this is what I commented in an earlier story about the GT... 600,000 in the channel... maybe 150,000 sold... if they are lucky... and I also said that there will be deep discounts just before Christmas.

So I'm wondering... when they are talking about the Android OS overtaking iOS, are they talking about just smartphones or are they talking about all Android and iOS devices? [on edit... I noticed that Nagromme mentioned the same thing]

Actually your arguments work against you.

The iphone has a huge grey market. If I pay a bunch of kids to line up at an Apple store and buy a bunch of iphones --- i.e. to be shipped to China to sell --- that's not actually being sold to end users yet. They are "grey market" inventory --- sitting on store shelves in some mom and pop store in China.
post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB;1760098[B

]While I do appreciate that a horserace makes for a more compelling storyline, I do not understand why writers continue to speak of Android overtaking Apple iOS. The real story is that Android is replacing Windows. Period. [/B]

If you want to write about Android and Apple, then what seems interesting to me is the fact that Apple "software cum hardware" approach is so powerful in a world that has grown up with the windows strategy.

Looking forward to hearing more about all of this.

This is a European story - and what should jump at you if you knew the market was not Android overtakes iOS (in phones they haven't counted other devices) but Android overtakes Symbian - who have had a greater position of strength in Europe than elsewhere in the world.

Nokia are the dominant players losing out; Windows is an irrelevance on Phones the world over.
post #36 of 86
These analysts are missing something important and I think it will become very apparent over the next year. The biggest threat to Android isn't the iPhone, but other platforms available to phone manufacturers, platforms like the newly launched WP7.

Android and the iPhone don't compete directly against each other. Yes, the iPhone competes against Android phones for sales, but it doesn't compete directly against the Android OS because iOS is not available for third parties to use. This is why bringing up marketshare as proof that Android is better is dumb. If the hardware for Android phones and the Android OS are remotely decent, it should outsell a single phone model like the iPhone.

On the other hand, WP7 does compete against the Android OS for placement on phones.

If for example, HTC is capable of making and selling X number of phones, and they decide to produce Y number of WP7 phones, the number of Android phones they can now produce is X-Y. Every WP7 device made is an Android phone that cannot be made. WP7 has to gain market share from someone, and they will gain most of it from the operating systems they displace on third party hardware, i.e., Android.

The same goes for shelf space at stores. Stores have limited shelf space. The iPhone only has one phone model so it doesn't really compete for space, but both Android and WP7 base their success on being available on as many phones as possible, so they each need a lot of shelf space. Any shelf space that WP7 phones occupy is shelf space unavailable to Android phones.

It remains to be seen how well WP7 devices will fare, but the presence of a second viable OS for manufacturers to choose from will impact Androids growth more than Apple ever could. Of course with Android and WP7 competing against each other for third party manufacturer support, Apple could become the leader in market share once again, but OS market share is not really that relevant to the success of the iPhone anyway.
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post #37 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Actually your arguments work against you.

The iphone has a huge grey market. If I pay a bunch of kids to line up at an Apple store and buy a bunch of iphones --- i.e. to be shipped to China to sell --- that's not actually being sold to end users yet. They are "grey market" inventory --- sitting on store shelves in some mom and pop store in China.

Actually, your argument works against you.

The iPhones of which you speak are no longer in the channel. They are sold regardless of who, what, where, and when.

I'm talking about alleged Samsung sales of 600,000 of the Galaxy Tab... of which I believe there are at least 450,000 still sitting in the channel.
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post #38 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Actually, your argument works against you.

The iPhones of which you speak are no longer in the channel. They are sold regardless of who, what, where, and when.

I'm talking about alleged Samsung sales of 600,000 of the Galaxy Tab... of which I believe there are at least 450,000 still sitting in the channel.

Inventory is inventory --- they haven't been sold to end users yet. Instead of stuffing the official carrier channel, they are just stuffing the grey market channel.
post #39 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Well even if you buy a PC or Notebook you can get accidental protection on them, is there any third party that offers them on Apple products? I think MicroCenter might but I don't know of anyone that has it on their iPhone. I could be wrong on that but I don't think its available on Apple products. Maybe somenoe else here would know for sure.

Squaretrade offers a 2 year warranty with Accidental Damage Protection for $99.00. This covers everything including full immersion.
post #40 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Okay lets say that is the case. First of all who cares. The second is how does the same thing not apply to Apple. They now ship to Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Microcenter and many of the online retailers that are listed on this site. So what about all that product sitting on the shelves?

Didn't Steve say that their numbers come from activations not channel shipments? Not sure about iPad number since some don't need activation.

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