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Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop

post #1 of 289
Thread Starter 
Despite a reportedly healthy level of interest from developers, Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 debut appears to have flopped with consumers, leaving developers cautious about investing in the platform.

On top of dead launch events reminiscent of the failed Microsoft KIN (which essentially ran an early, limited version of the WP7 platform) and poor unofficial sales reports, an apparent gag on app analytics is preventing developers from seeing how many of their apps have actually sold. Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011.

Disgruntled developers fret about platform's future prospects

Two WP7 developers, Nicholas Yu of GoVoice (a Google Voice client app) and Justin James, who created an Airport Status Checker app for WP7, have both complained that Microsoft isn't providing developers with app store analytics to indicate how many titles they've actually sold.

Yu described this problem to be significant enough to hold up his investment in adding requested features such as push notifications. "Currently I have no idea how many copies of GoVoice are sold nor did I receive a single paycheck," Yu wrote in his development blog. "Implementing Push is a very risky thing for me because I need to justify that the expenses will cover the maintenance cost of a Push server. If Push is implemented, the expenses are coming straight out of my paycheck, and that is very sensitive to me."

James repeated similar concerns, noting that "there will be no payouts from [the WP7] App Hub [to developers] until February 2011, and there is no built-in reporting on downloads as of now."

He outlined a variety of problems in working with Microsoft's share App Hub developer site for WP7 and Xbox 360, and concluded, "unless you consider Windows Phone 7 to be a 'must do' platform for development (which is quite unlikely), I suggest that you think of Windows Phone 7 development as a hobby or a learning experience rather than a source of revenue until the App Hub issues are sorted out."

In contrast, Apple has promoted the fact that it has distributed over $1 billion in payments to its developers from the sales of their apps, which now exceed 300,000 titles that have seen more than 7 billion downloads. Apple has sold over 73 million iPhones, in addition to tens of millions of iPod touch and iPad devices that also run iOS apps.

Not an app for that

Last fall, Microsoft's Windows Marketplace for Mobile began cultivating a software app store for the company's Windows Mobile 6.5 patterned after Apple's iTunes App Store, encouraging developers to "get in now, get noticed, and take the big prize," in a Race to Market Challenge that offered the chance to win a Surface table, online marketing and promotion, and a "one-of-a-kind trophy."



Just a few months later, the company decided to start over completely with WP7, throwing out compatibility with existing titles its developers had 'raced to deliver' but which were largely dependent upon an outdated, PDA-style windowing environment driven by a stylus. Apple's Steve Jobs had declared the stylus obsolete for modern mobile devices back at the iPhone's launch in early 2007.

In its place, Microsoft assembled a new development model around WP7, using Silverlight and Xbox XNA development tools. At the same time, it began downplaying the importance of apps in general by suggesting WP7 devices were more efficient and business-like because they purposely wouldn't offer much to consume users' attention.

This strategy has enabled Microsoft to associate its Xbox developers with WP7 development, claiming earlier this week that "weve also seen a near 80% increase in the number of registered [WP7] developers since September, with more than 15,000 developers already signaling their intent to bring exciting content to Windows Phone." The same blog posting noted that Microsoft planned to make 3,000 apps available for WP7 this month.

WP7's lackluster launch

However, whether WP7 can ever achieve a user base large enough to support its developers is in question. The availability of XNA development tools for the Zune HD, and their familiarity to Xbox coders, has not had any impact on creating a viable software market for that device, largely due to poor hardware sales among consumers.

Curiously, Microsoft had no problems reporting app sales data to its developers in the Windows Marketplace for Mobile store last year, indicating that the missing functionality related to sales data in the new WP7 App Hub is an intentional effort to avoid any leaks of hard data that would show how badly WP7 phones are actually selling.

Windows Phone 7 launched alongside a $500 million ad campaign last month to lackluster sales estimated to be in the tens of thousands. In the UK, an Orange launch event opened to a line of just two people. Damage control headlines later suggested Orange had "sold out" of WP7 inventory without suggesting how many units that actually involved.

Retail store checks by BGR of fifteen AT&T locations throughout the US found dismal results for the new platform in its initial launch week, with the best reports claiming sales of ten to fifteen units while around half of the stores complained that they'd only sold between one and four of the new devices. AT&T has since started a "buy one get one" promotion for WP7, but hasn't released any hard sales data.

A report on mobile phone sales in the UK by MobilePlease and its network of retail partner sites said Microsoft's WP7 was being eclipsed not only by Android (14:1) but also accounted for just a third of the sales volumes of the beleaguered Symbian^3 platform, represented almost entirely by one model, the Nokia N8.

That report also noted that the new WP7 models "are by and large generic phones from well known manufacturers, and in most cases an almost identical model is available from the same manufacturer with Android, and given the choice people seem to be picking Android."

An informal survey of other retailers in the report agreed that while "demand for iPhone, Blackberry and HTC handsets was strong in the smartphone sector," they too had observed that "Windows Phone 7 handsets are not selling."

A more difficult game for new platforms with missing features

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been dispassionate, with common complaints that the new devices offered nothing really new while failing to match the software features of existing Android and iPhone models that they compete against. WP7 offers no support for multitasking, universal search, arbitrary copy and paste, or a unified inbox with topic threads, for example.

Apple lacked many of those features in the iOS until recently, but it also enjoyed strong brand loyalty and a stand-out user interface that attracted buyers while it fleshed out its software feature list. Apple also didn't have to contend with more modern and feature-complete rivals during the development of iOS, because its show-stopping, uniquely new experiences such as a truly usable mobile web browser served to overshadow its limitations.

Android similarly started with significant feature omissions, but has slowly matured over the past three years to fill the vacuum created by the failure of Palm OS and Windows Mobile devices, leaving little low hanging fruit for Microsoft to reclaim this late in the game.
post #2 of 289
"Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop"

One word:

Zune.
post #3 of 289
i bet the x-box kinect guys are laughing at the WP7 people now
post #4 of 289
"In the UK, an Orange launch event opened to a line of just two people."

Wow! I bet one was DaHarder....
post #5 of 289
MS just has no compelling reason for someone to buy a WP7. gotta have something that sets them apart and makes you think you might need it. crap battery life and a touch interface just doesn't do it when you have iphone and android devices as competition...
post #6 of 289

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)
post #7 of 289
with 2 year contracts, unless you want to use prepaid phones, who wants to take the risk, expense, and early phone replacement fees with this mess
the consumer has spoken, give me a future focused phone, with updates 2 years is a long time in the cell phone market, in europe they change phones on average 10-12 months

not with this junk, the more bad press, and lack of develeopers for apps, the more this will sour with consumers,

put them in the prepaid phone market, if people buy it its no big deal to keep or trash it.

people expect much more these days and buy one get 4 free still hobbles the consumer to a go nowhere soon to be replaced mess. maybe those telecos can extend the return policy like 60 days, but then who really cares

i don't ----i have an iPhone 3 g thats 2+years old, has had updates, and still rocks compare to the other junk out there
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post #8 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

With good reason. Last night I already saw BOGO for ATT and Windows 7 phones. Its really amazing to me how MS just simply can't get anything right.

You know Ex, I don't think MS gives a sh** about getting anything right. they make a gajillion bucks sitting on their fat,lazy, corner office a**es anyway by licensing their crap OS off to every freaking OEM on the planet.
And who do they think they were fooling anyway. The same smart phones using Android are the same ones using W7!
Ballmer is history. No wonder he sold some of his stock the other week. Lol!
And I read a disturbing article where a high rolling stock holder, at a stock holder meeting, in MS ask if it is time to break up MS. Damn!
post #9 of 289
I'd still like to get my hands on one of these devices, just to try it out. But every time I'm out shopping, it simply slips my mind.

That's the kicker here. With the iPhone, you went to the store for the iPhone. When a new model is announced (starting with the first model, even), people want to go see the bloody thing. Heck, I've gone out to specifically check out a number of Android devices, too.

But there is nothing enticing at all about WP7. The UI looks confusing as hell (though I've read elsewhere that it's not); the lack of multitasking is agonizing, given the current competition; and I don't play XBox, so I frankly don't give a damn about one of its main "features."

This is just painful to watch.
post #10 of 289
Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.
post #11 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

I don't think the writer meant it to mean what you think they meant it to mean.
post #12 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

Sounds like Walt really liked it: "Overall, I cant recommend Windows Phone 7 as being on a par with iPhone or Android"
post #13 of 289
Who is doomed now?
post #14 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

What's your point?
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #15 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

What's your point?

My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?
post #16 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

What's your point?

Wouldn't you be angry if you camped out three days prior to the release of a product only to realize had you not, you'd still be the first in line?
post #17 of 289
So 2 developers are enough to generalize for the entire platform? LOL

I am not surprised WP7 is off to a slow start. I would think it is going to take MS sometime and a few OS updates to build any sort of critical mass. I also doubt it will ever displace Android or iPhone in market share.

However, it will exceed the sales of RIM platform hardware by the end of 2011 as RIM continues its slide of death. MS will continue to pour money into the platform until they get it to where they want.

-kpluck

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post #18 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.

I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).

I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.

I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.
post #19 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

No one was disputing that Apple had some bumps in the road along the way, but there is and always has been good sales analytics and timely payments on Apple's part regarding their devs. Plus, there's also, you know, a viable market for said developers, unlike literally everything Microsoft has thrown out in the mobile space over the past 3 years.

Plus, what "vaporware" has Apple announced and not delivered? And no, simply a different color of an identical product that is out already and is uber-popular does not count.
post #20 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

Actually, a dispassionate review isn't extremely anything. It's "meh." \
post #21 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.

I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).

I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.

I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.

Dont like my snarky tones? Really the whole article is snarky.

"I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products"

Why would anyone say that about something like software? Use what is best for the job at hand. I could see that point of view if say Micrsoft was I dont know trying to push cheap labor so hard to make these phones that the employees were killing themselves.....oh wait that has happened.....but they are not. Its software made not by Microsoft, but a bunch of people working for them. Most of which have only been there 10 years of less.

"but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more" Mystified? Its been out for about 30 days and they have 3000 apps and 15,000 registered developers. How many apps did the Andriod phone have after 30 days? Or the iPhone 1?

Seriously if it cant break 5000 apps after 6 months then there is a problem, like say WebOS.
post #22 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

My point? ... Ruffle some panties?

Just to be picky ...

you can't "ruffle some panties" you can only "ruffle some feathers" (like on a bird).

These are ruffled panties:
which probably isn't what you meant.
post #23 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Just to be picky ...

you can't "ruffle some panties" you can only "ruffle some feathers" (like on a bird).

These are ruffled panties:
which probably isn't what you meant.

Tie them in a not?
post #24 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.

I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).

I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.

I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.

sorry but android is a 'real' os not a a filler. and i left att for the nexus one and android. am very happy with it and eagerly awaiting 2.3
it can do anything the iphone does except for 'facetime' and i could care less about that.
its funny to 'hear' the Balmer monkey boy style shrieking around here when it comes to Android and the iphone.
post #25 of 289
Apple fans should actually want WP7 to succeed as it caps how quickly Android can grow. It provides a second option for companies like HTC to use, effectively splitting the market currently owned by Android phones.

It's difficult for Apple as a single manufacturer to ship a majority of phone in a market as large as the smartphone market. If Android is the only OS that third party manufacturers use, its market share will get quite large.

Now I don't consider a marketshare to a big deal unless it impacts your developer support, but I grow tired of Android fanboys spouting numbers like they are the most important thing in the world. Somehow they believe that it's a great accomplishment that a free OS that is installed on many manufacturers phones can collectively outsell one phone model manufactured by a single company. Great accomplishment or not, it would be great to see them served some humble pie. Having WP7 weaken manufacturer and as a result, consumer support of Android would do just that.

In terms of "winning" marketshare, the more players the better for Apple as it becomes more difficult for any one platform to become dominant and easier for a single manufacturer like Apple to claim the largest piece of the pie. If there are two players, they need greater than 50%, if there are three players, they need greater than 33% (assuming the other two are equal to each other), if there are four players, they only need 25%, etc. At the end of the day though, OS marketshare means very little and everyone puts too much stock in it. OSX does just fine at sub 10% numbers.
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post #26 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?

Hey... you show me some sales numbers that disprove the AI contention that WP7 suffers from slow consumer sales and I'll agree with you.

[ on edit: All I see are headlines blaring that Android is outselling WP7 by 15:1. ]
Hmmmmmm...
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post #27 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Just to be picky ...

you can't "ruffle some panties" you can only "ruffle some feathers" (like on a bird).

These are ruffled panties:
which probably isn't what you meant.

viva le difference !
post #28 of 289
Even Microsoft's ads for WP7 are lame. "Our phones have no compelling features. You'll want to use them as little as possible."

If I were a mobile developer, I'd wait a year to see if WP7 phones have enough market share to make a difference. By next winter, if WP7 doesn't have at least 8% to 10% of the smartphone market, I would ignore it and just let it die. Or wait until Microsoft gets it right, which is very unlikely. (For reference, Apple had 24% and Android had 17% of the smartphone market in September 2010.)

Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7.

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.

But no, MS and Palm simply milked their existing customer bases. They just kept hacking the old OS with new features instead of moving ahead to the next mobile computing paradigm. It's as if they were just waiting for Apple to do something so they could copy Apple's ideas.

So I would extend Microsoft's WP7 ads beyond end users. If I were interested in developing for WP7 I'd take a quick look at WP7's market share every year. Then ignore it until it either dies or starts to make a dent in iPhone's market share. Not interesting until that happens.

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post #29 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hey... you show me some sales numbers that disprove the AI contention that WP7 suffers from slow consumer sales and I'll agree with you.

[ on edit: All I see are headlines blaring that Android is outselling WP7 by 15:1. ]

I never said anything about Windows 7 sales. However AI did, and now you are as well. Both of you need to prove it.
post #30 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

“Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate…” Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means…

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)…

You really should look things up before saying what you think the meaning is. It's easy enough.

Quote:
dispassionate
dis⋅pas⋅sion⋅ate /dispæʃəneɪt/
adjective
unaffected by strong emotion or prejudice • a journalist should be a dispassionate reporter of fact
syn: cold-eyed
post #31 of 289
Their "do more with less clicks" sales pitch is an appealing one. This seems to be what your average person cares most about when it comes to smart phones. The learning curve on even an iphone can confuse, frustrate, and infuriate some customers. I know it seems silly, but some people really don't get along with technology very well, and it's these people that the sales pitch is working with.

I don't think anyone expected long lines and high demand for the first WP7 devices. The whole thing has potential though and won't just die off like kin did.
post #32 of 289
I've "ruffled" some panties! Or did they ruffle me? Oh well!

Seriously, I don't understand this "rush to market" that MS and Boogle exhibit time and time again...remember back when Netbooks were the only bright spot for PC's and the debate was Market share vs. profitability?

Everyone with any nouse new profitability was preferable.


HP seems to have it somewhat correct in buying Palm for their WebOS and RIM also designing a completely new OS. But I agree with Jobs, they are really starting from way behind.

The Galaxy table using Boogle's Frodo which they themselves have said is not "Tablet ready" and everyone knows MS never releases anything that's ever been even close to "ready!"

Sheez!
post #33 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

sorry but android is a 'real' os not a a filler.

Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.

It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.

Oops. This is a pro-Apple forum. No more mention of (doomed) Android, OK guys?

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post #34 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Even Microsoft's ads for WP7 are lame. "Our phones have no compelling features. You'll want to use them as little as possible."

If I were a mobile developer, I'd wait a year to see if WP7 phones have enough market share to make a difference. By next winter, if WP7 doesn't have at least 8% to 10% of the smartphone market, I would ignore it and just let it die. Or wait until Microsoft gets it right, which is very unlikely. (For reference, Apple had 24% and Android had 17% of the smartphone market in September 2010.)

Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7.

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.

But no, MS and Palm simply milked their existing customer bases. They just kept hacking the old OS with new features instead of moving ahead to the next mobile computing paradigm. It's as if they were just waiting for Apple to do something so they could copy Apple's ideas.

So I would extend Microsoft's WP7 ads beyond end users. If I were interested in developing for WP7 I'd take a quick look at WP7's market share every year. Then ignore it until it either dies or starts to make a dent in iPhone's market share. Not interesting until that happens.

"Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7"

Yeah I get that. WinCE/WinMO has been around since.....the early Pocket PC days in 2001/2? and MS decides to end it, and bring on something new. With out warning at all!!!

If only those people that bought PPC G5's in 2006 could run Snow Leopard in 2009 If you need a time killer try taking pictures with my iPhone 3G on 4.x it is a fantastic thrill.
post #35 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

Those reviews you refer to have been lukewarm, just as have most other reviews. This isn't a terrible OS, it just isn't anything outstanding. While iOS lacked some major features in the past, it's got them now, and now is when WP7 is competing, not in the past.

I read somewhere that it doesn't even have HTML 5. if true, that alone would be a reason not to buy it. Anyone here know if it is true?
post #36 of 289
Remember the photos of the funeral procession they had for Apple, Android and RIM...
I think there was a general consensus here that that event was an antipode of things to come.

I wonder who Microsoft will purchase to procure their market share back?
I seem to recall something about RIM being too important to Canada to allow foreign takeover. Who does that leave?

Inconceivable that they can't leverage their monopoly with desktop computing to the mobile space.
That alone shows a tremendous lack of leadership. The Ballmeister will be gone next year.
They should look for talent outside of the current gene pool.
post #37 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hey... you show me some sales numbers that disprove the AI contention that WP7 suffers from slow consumer sales and I'll agree with you.

[ on edit: All I see are headlines blaring that Android is outselling WP7 by 15:1. ]

I am not sure I see your point.

Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.

This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.

2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.
post #38 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Even Microsoft's ads for WP7 are lame. "Our phones have no compelling features. You'll want to use them as little as possible."

No, more like "You'll be able to use them with as little effort as possible."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

If I were a mobile developer, I'd wait a year to see if WP7 phones have enough market share to make a difference. By next winter, if WP7 doesn't have at least 8% to 10% of the smartphone market, I would ignore it and just let it die. Or wait until Microsoft gets it right, which is very unlikely. (For reference, Apple had 24% and Android had 17% of the smartphone market in September 2010.)

Different circumstances now though. Apple and Google got that market share by making their smart phones more appealing to a broader range of people. Windows Mobile was a strong OS, but definitely not for your average person

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7.

Yes, people are pissed, and I'm with you. They could have gotten it right had they made some minor "thumb friendly" changes to windows mobile, and worked harder at ensuring better performance through proper drivers on each device, but instead, they decided to revamp the whole thing.

You know what pissed me off the most? Right after WP7 was ANNOUNCED (not released) companies started pushing out whatever they were working on as final releases with no pending development, all because they saw MS bring the axe down on WM. Firefox's mobile browser, for example, went from beta to final in a day, and nothing was fixed from the beta. They literally just called the beta a final and said screw it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.

bingo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

But no, MS and Palm simply milked their existing customer bases. They just kept hacking the old OS with new features instead of moving ahead to the next mobile computing paradigm. It's as if they were just waiting for Apple to do something so they could copy Apple's ideas.

So I would extend Microsoft's WP7 ads beyond end users. If I were interested in developing for WP7 I'd take a quick look at WP7's market share every year. Then ignore it until it either dies or starts to make a dent in iPhone's market share. Not interesting until that happens.

I think WP7 users are hoping developers view things differently lol. Without apps, it'll be on par with a Samsung Instinct (in terms of a smashed positive outlook.)
post #39 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Apple fans should actually want WP7 to succeed as it caps how quickly Android can grow. It provides a second option for companies like HTC to use, effectively splitting the market currently owned by Android phones.
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I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.

But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...

All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.
post #40 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?

Don't bother to continue insulting people, either specifically, or in general. You can say what you want without doing that.

Right now, it's MS and its partners who are doing the BS. Making statements about selling out of product without stating actual sales numbers is exactly what Palm and Sprint did with the introduction of the Pre. They gleefully stated that they were sold out in several locations, then most locations, then all locations. They promised that more product would be coming as soon as they could catch up in production. But it turned out that they only sold 50,000 units in the first week.

MS is duplicating that method. We have no idea how many phones have been sold, because they refuse to say. When companies hide their data, its because it isn't good. If developers are not getting their data, or payments, you can bet it's for the same reason.

You should be complaining about MS's tactics instead of complaining about the info AI is getting. This isn't the only site writing articles like this, and most of them are not Apple oriented sites.
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